What is meant by "Heart of the Hops?"
David Knauff
The new Miller Beer ads claim that the "heart of the hops" is
used in brewing it. What does this mean? Is it another
marketing gimmick, a la "beechwood aged"? I tried it once, and
don't really notice much difference.
jeffrey green
In article <322602...@mtnet1.mt.att.com>, David Knauff
<kna...@mtnet1.mt.att.com> wrote:
Beechwood strips are used by AB to give more surface area for the yeast.
I suppose it might have a tiny effect on the flavor but who would notice.
The Heart of the Hops sounds like a huge load of BS to me.
They might say that they core out each individual hops flower so they only
use the inside freshest part, but that's BS too.
Maybe they only use hops extracts? It would still be a load of crap.
I just get pissed when I hear commercials like that.
And THEN, others say I am just a beer snob when I rail on the commercials.
YES! I AM A BEER SNOB! I KNOW WHAT IS GOOD, AND YOU SHOULD TOO!
:-)
There.
jg\
H. Dowda
I guess you guys haven't heard. It was a printer's error. It was
supposed to be "the fart and some flops".
"He that is concious of a stink in his Breeches, is jealous of every
Wrinkle in another's nose."
Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1751.
Steven Harrison
>The new Miller Beer ads claim that the "heart of the hops" is
>used in brewing it. What does this mean? Is it another
>marketing gimmick, a la "beechwood aged"? I tried it once, and
>don't really notice much difference.
What does "heart of the hops" mean? Absolutely NOTHING!!!!!
The fact that you tried the "new" Miller means you fell into their evil trap.
They do nothing to their beer except rename it and use a catchy slogan, and
there are people who actually say "Dang!! This IS better. Must be the heart
of the hops."
The ironic thing is that this beer, like all mass produced appeal-to-everyone
beers, uses a miniscual amount of hops so as not to give you that dreaded
"bitter beer face" (Keystone -- are you actually that clueless?). What they
really need is the Whole Damn hop flower, not just the heart.
Steve
Clay Irving
>The new Miller Beer ads claim that the "heart of the hops" is
>used in brewing it. What does this mean? Is it another
>marketing gimmick, a la "beechwood aged"? I tried it once, and
>don't really notice much difference.
If you take hops, and peel away the flavorful petals, you're left with
the "heart of the hops." Most people call it the stem. :)
--
Clay Irving N2VKG
cl...@panix.com
http://www.panix.com/~clay/
zymu...@fred.net
jeffrey green (jewg...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: Beechwood strips are used by AB to give more surface area for the yeast.
: I suppose it might have a tiny effect on the flavor but who would notice.
My opinion is that Bud gets more of a flavor effect from rice than it
does from the beechwood, and especially more than from the practically
nonexistent hops. Once it's filtered, only the rice character shows.
No yeast flavorings at all that I can discern.
: The Heart of the Hops sounds like a huge load of BS to me.
: They might say that they core out each individual hops flower so they only
: use the inside freshest part, but that's BS too.
:
: Maybe they only use hops extracts? It would still be a load of crap.
Yeah. Why don't they just use the *whole* hop, and more of them? I'm sure
that Miller has brewers working for them who know how to get more hop
flavor without excessive bitterness. (IMHO a prerequisite for selling
to the US mass market.)
You wanna talk about a load of crap? I heard a radio commercial yesterday
advertising the new Coors wide mouth can. Something to the effect of once
you try the taste of the new wide mouth Coors can, you'll never go back.
As if the frigging can design is going to make a difference in the taste.
Yeah, more like once you find how much easier our swill is to pound,
you'll keep coming to us for a cheap buzz.
: I just get pissed when I hear commercials like that.
: And THEN, others say I am just a beer snob when I rail on the commercials.
: YES! I AM A BEER SNOB! I KNOW WHAT IS GOOD, AND YOU SHOULD TOO!
I heard a commercial on the radio today calling Coors Original "America's
last real beer". I laughed so hard I nearly pissed myself. To be fair,
I've never tried Coors Original, but I don't expect to see yeast
sediment at the bottom of the bottle.
Proud to be a beer snob,
Ken
I upped my retirement savings deduction... up yours.
Thomas Satterfield
David Knauff <kna...@mtnet1.mt.att.com> wrote:
>The new Miller Beer ads claim that the "heart of the hops" is
>used in brewing it. What does this mean? Is it another
>marketing gimmick, a la "beechwood aged"? I tried it once, and
>don't really notice much difference.
I think "Heart of the Hops" may be a marketing thing however I do
recall something about the structure of the Hop flower that mentioned
something at the base of the flower that contributed something to the
hoppiness of the Hop; "Lupulin Glands" ? I'm not sure but there may be
enough of a scientific basis for "Heart of the Hops" to have _some_
meaning. In contrast to say hop pellets or granulated hops that tend
to NOT have so much of this part of the hop. Fresh, whole Hops are
always better for this reason.
Also, "Beechwood Ageing" is real. I live near St.Louis and have made
the AB tour. Yes, They have real beechwood chips in the ageing vats.
I've seen them, I've touched them etc. They put a large quantity of
Beechwood in the secondary fermentation vat in the lager. I'm not sure
exactly what it does (clarifies?) but they do do it.
a...@infinet.com
harris...@osu.edu (Steven Harrison) wrote:
>In article <322602...@mtnet1.mt.att.com> David Knauff <kna...@mtnet1.mt.att.com> writes:
>>The new Miller Beer ads claim that the "heart of the hops" is
>>used in brewing it. What does this mean? Is it another
>>marketing gimmick, a la "beechwood aged"? I tried it once, and
>>don't really notice much difference.
>What does "heart of the hops" mean? Absolutely NOTHING!!!!!
>The fact that you tried the "new" Miller means you fell into their evil trap.
>They do nothing to their beer except rename it and use a catchy slogan, and
>there are people who actually say "Dang!! This IS better. Must be the heart
>of the hops."
>The ironic thing is that this beer, like all mass produced appeal-to-everyone
>beers, uses a miniscual amount of hops so as not to give you that dreaded
>"bitter beer face" (Keystone -- are you actually that clueless?). What they
>really need is the Whole Damn hop flower, not just the heart.
>Steve
I read somewhere that Miller doesn't even use hops in their boil.
Instead, they use a chemically altered hop extract that is not skunked
by being stored in clear bottles. Is there any truth to this?
On the topic of clear bottles, does anyone besides me shed a tear upon
seeing a clear bottle of Sam Smith Winter Welcome, especially out in
the open, under fluorescent light ?!? Argh!
Aric
Alan McKay
: >In article <322602...@mtnet1.mt.att.com> David Knauff <kna...@mtnet1.mt.att.com> writes:
: >What does "heart of the hops" mean? Absolutely NOTHING!!!!!
:>The fact that you tried the "new"Miller means you fell into their evil trap.
:>They do nothing to their beer except rename it and use a catchy slogan, and
: >there are people who actually say "Dang!! This IS better. Must be the heart
: >of the hops."
Yeah, like the beer that was released a while ago up here in Canada
called "Alpine Cold-Filtered". My friends are all suprized when I
explain to them that all commercial beer is cold filtered. How else
do they avoid chill haze.
Talk about marketing pizzazz
-Alan
--
"[Truth] is a confusing and difficult
process, but I must continue"
- Ben Horn
Twin Peaks, Episode 28
http://www.acadiau.ca/cc/alan/
Alan McKay
Thomas Satterfield (satte...@gentire.com) wrote:
: recall something about the structure of the Hop flower that mentioned
: something at the base of the flower that contributed something to the
: hoppiness of the Hop; "Lupulin Glands" ? I'm not sure but there may be
: enough of a scientific basis for "Heart of the Hops" to have _some_
: meaning. In contrast to say hop pellets or granulated hops that tend
: to NOT have so much of this part of the hop. Fresh, whole Hops are
: always better for this reason.
No, all hops have lupulin glands. They give us bitterness. Indeed,
hop pellets give you better access to the oils in the glands than whole
hops, since they have already been ruptured.
-Alan
--
Help Wanted: Telepath. You know where to apply.
http://www.acadiau.ca/cc/alan/
T-Bone
> jeffrey green (jewg...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
> : Beechwood strips are used by AB to give more surface area for the yeast.
> : I suppose it might have a tiny effect on the flavor but who would notice.
>
Beechwood is prized as a casking wood for its almost complete lack of
flavor contribution.
TimW
T-Bone
Ohhh....
I though they were saying "Fart from the Hops" referring to
the gastronomical advantages to drinking cheap beer.
Thanks for straightening me out !
TimW
Bill Crick
zymu...@fred.net wrote:
>
> jeffrey green (jewg...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
> : Beechwood strips are used by AB to give more surface area for the yeast.
> : I suppose it might have a tiny effect on the flavor but who would notice.
My understanding of this, was that the beechwood was used to help clear
the beer quicker (before filtering was common?), not to add flavor.
> You wanna talk about a load of crap? I heard a radio commercial yesterday
> advertising the new Coors wide mouth can. Something to the effect of once
> you try the taste of the new wide mouth Coors can, you'll never go back.
> As if the frigging can design is going to make a difference in the taste.
Before you shoot your nose off here, think about what is missing when
you drink from a can, or bottle vs a glass? The aroma, which can be
a large part of the taste experience _If_ the beer in question happens
to have an aroma. I suspect that Coors has no detectable aroma anyways,
but mayber Joe Six Pack, having not had his nose burned out by
DryHopHead friend's homebrew can appreciate the complex yet subtle aroma
of the ta-da the "Heart of the Hops;-)
Heart of the hops? -> Probably is their new revolutionary ingredient
Hop Extract;-)
Bill Crick
Drink Swill and Die!
David R. Rorabaugh
"Beechwood Aged" isn't purely a marketing gimick, it's a true process.
They are very honest about it not imparting any flavor to the beer (they
bleach and boil the beechwood before using it). However, it DOES provide
a natural way of providing a much more productive bed for the yeast to
settle on.
"The Heart of the Hops" is pure BS. They use the same part of the hop
plants that every other brewer uses, but they have decided to make
something of it because most of their customers wouldn't know a hop if
it bit them. In the same way that the current Keystone campaign uses
"the least bitter beer" as a tag, Miller is using "the heart of the
hops". The Keystone slogan at least tells you there aren't any hops, but
the Miller slogan is meant to imply a premium quality without actually
saying anything.
--
David R. Rorabaugh
Systems Operations Specialist
Dickstein Shapiro Morin & Oshinsky LLP
The opinions expressed are my own.
--
John Holder
David Knauff (kna...@mtnet1.mt.att.com) wrote:
: The new Miller Beer ads claim that the "heart of the hops" is
: marketing gimmick, a la "beechwood aged"? I tried it once, and
: don't really notice much difference.
<sarcasm>
First, suck all the alpha & beta hops oils out of the hops.
Then use the remaining oilless cones, and you have the "heart
of the hops" giving you a "less harsh, smoother taste" that
"real beer drinkers" (gag) enjoy.
</sarcasm>
--
John Holder (jho...@frii.com) http://www.frii.com/~jholder/
UNIX Specialist, Paranet Inc., Denver, Colorado, USA, Earth
Death is just God's way of dropping carrier detect...
YoYo
Ostensibly, the wide mouth cans and bottles are supposed to reduce the
"glug" factor when pouring (like anybody *pours* Coors!).
In reality, I suspect that that it's to lure in the frat boy contigent
with the promise of faster brewski-pounding-action.
--
YoYoYoYoYoYoYoYoYoYoYoYoYoYoYo yo...@io.com YoYoYoYoYoYoYoYoYoYoYoYoYoYoYo
++---What this country needs is a cranky 17th--------------------------++
++--------century Turk with clear vision, a mean mouth,----------------++
++-------------and a really awesome scimitar. -Meg Greenfield---------++
H. Dowda
John Holder wrote:
>
> David Knauff (kna...@mtnet1.mt.att.com) wrote:
> : The new Miller Beer ads claim that the "heart of the hops" is
> : used in brewing it. What does this mean? Is it another
> : marketing gimmick, a la "beechwood aged"? I tried it once, and
> : don't really notice much difference.
>
> <sarcasm>
> First, suck all the alpha & beta hops oils out of the hops.
> Then use the remaining oilless cones, and you have the "heart
> of the hops" giving you a "less harsh, smoother taste" that
> "real beer drinkers" (gag) enjoy.
> </sarcasm>
Hey,
I guess you haven't heard about Beechwood. He's one of the Clydesdales.
b.c.shelby
Alan McKay (al...@news.acadiau.ca) wrote:
: : >In article <322602...@mtnet1.mt.att.com> David Knauff <kna...@mtnet1.mt.att.com> writes:
: : >What does "heart of the hops" mean? Absolutely NOTHING!!!!!
: :>The fact that you tried the "new"Miller means you fell into their evil trap.
: :>They do nothing to their beer except rename it and use a catchy slogan, and
: : >there are people who actually say "Dang!! This IS better. Must be the heart
: : >of the hops."
: Yeah, like the beer that was released a while ago up here in Canada
: called "Alpine Cold-Filtered". My friends are all suprized when I
: explain to them that all commercial beer is cold filtered. How else
: do they avoid chill haze.
: Talk about marketing pizzazz
: -Alan
...kind of like those "sticker" hot rods of the 70s & 80s. Add some fancy
stipes, a fake hood scoop, and a sporty name like "spyder" and it has to
go fast eh?
...Oy! another pint mate, and not the 40 wt either.
--
...b.c.shelby
fur...@teleport.com...
Fred Waltman
In article <322602...@mtnet1.mt.att.com>,
David Knauff <kna...@mtnet1.mt.att.com> wrote:
>The new Miller Beer ads claim that the "heart of the hops" is
>used in brewing it. What does this mean? Is it another
>marketing gimmick, a la "beechwood aged"? I tried it once, and
>don't really notice much difference.
While "heart of the hops" maybe marketing BS, Miller does do something
unique with their new "Miller' beer.
Normally, Miller does not use that actual hops in making their beer. They
extract mos of the bittering compounds (alpha acids) and use them in their
beers. When you are done, you have a lot of left over green vegative
material that used to go to the compost heap. Since the residue has some
bittering potential left, as well as some flavoring compounds, Miller
decided to use this in their new beer. This is the "heart of the hop."
--
Fred Waltman
Culver City Home Brewing Supply Co.
wal...@netcom.com
http://www.homebrew.inter.net
"You can make better beer than you can buy."
Michael Gerholdt
"David R. Rorabaugh" <rorab...@dsmo.com> wrote:
<snip>
>"The Heart of the Hops" is pure BS. They use the same part of the hop
>plants that every other brewer uses, but they have decided to make
>something of it because most of their customers wouldn't know a hop if
>it bit them.
<snip>
I thought this was covered here recently. The info I present here I
picked up on the Homebrew Digest a couple-three weeks ago.
Miller uses Galena hops. For quality control and, as another reader
questioned, to process for a less skunkable beer, the hop oil is
extracted from the lupulin glands of the hops. This extract is used in
MIller's *other* beers. What is left of the Galena hop is a skeletal
cone with minimal lupulin left - though there is still some!
These skeletal, used up cones are the "heart" of the hops. It takes
four times as many hops as usual to achieve the desired level of
hoppiness (not that it's much) because there is so little left.
It was also reported that Miller had tried a pilot advertising blitz
using a different line - "Brewed from the Dregs of our Other Fine
Beers" - or something along that line. It didn't fly, so they came
up with the "Heart of the Hops" idea.
Here is a letter from a Miller official to an HBD reader/contributor:
-------------------------------------------------8<-------------------------------------------------------
From: BR Rolya <brr...@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:42:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Miller's "Heart of the Hops"
Several weeks ago, I e-mailed Miller's
"brewmaster", David Ryder, asking him to
please explain exactly what revolutionary
new process enabled Miller to separate the
heart from the hops (whatever that is), or
to admit that it was just a marketing ploy aimed
at uneducated beer drinkers. As expected, his
response was -ahem- highly informative and
clarifying ;)
Here, for your entertainment, is his response.
(If you care to e-mail/lambast him yourself,
his address (taken from a print ad) is
mil...@execpc.com).
- --------------------------------------
Dear B.R. Royla
Thanks for your recent inquiry on new Miller Beer!
Due to competitive reasons, we cannot provide brewing process
specifics;
however, we can answer some of your questions regarding the "heart of
the
hops."
As a homebrewer and hop gardener, I'm sure you're aware that hops are
the
spice of beer that add their own special taste and aroma. Our
proprietary
brewing expertise enables us to remove the bitter quality from hops
while
maintaining their complex flavor attributes. After doing this, we
have,
what we call, the "heart of the hop."
Miller Beer uses only the heart of the hop to produce a rich flavor
that
diminshes the bitter and filling characterisitics typically associated
with
full-flavored beers, and allows for a remarkably smooth, drinkable
taste.
Miller Beer is brewed with four times as many hops as other premium,
mainstream beers and with the highest quality Galena hops from the
Pacific
Northwest.
I hope that answers your questions. And, should you get the
opportunity to
try Miller Beer, I'd be interested in knowing what you think!
Thanks again.
-------------------------------------------------------8<-------------------------------------------------------
Another HBD contributor noted that while browsing an antique shop, he
came across Schlitz ads from 1946, which touted "The Kiss of the Hops"
and claimed to have removed the bitterness so common to other brews
...
OPINION SECTION:
We're all advertised at all the time. Because we know a bit more about
beer, we see through Miller's campaign. The letter above shows how
shallow and paltry some advertising can be. Nonetheless, perception is
everything, and if there are others who buy into the heart of the hops
idea, or are just intrigued by it - sufficiently that they buy a
six-pack just to check it out - then the advertising has done its job.
Just remember: there are other advertisements that make *you* go
"hmmm, think I'll check that out!" On other "news"groups, others are
chortling about the insipidity of those adds and of the stupidity of
those who are taken in ....
Bottom line, for me, is: So what, give Miller a break; they are
supposed to sell beer and they are doing it very well.
Haunted by a heartless hop,
b.c.shelby
H. Dowda (hdo...@scsn.net) wrote:
: Hey,
: I guess you haven't heard about Beechwood. He's one of the Clydesdales.
...ahhhh. That validates my theory that Bud tastes like Equine
Excrement (I was wondering how those hoof hairs got in the bottle).
--
...b.c.shelby
fur...@teleport.com...
Jeff Givens
On 30 Aug 1996 10:57:12 GMT zymu...@fred.net () wrote:
>>My opinion is that Bud gets more of a flavor effect from rice than it
>>does from the beechwood, and especially more than from the practically
>>nonexistent hops. Once it's filtered, only the rice character shows.
>>No yeast flavorings at all that I can discern.
Heard those AB commercials extolling the fine Louisiana rice they use?
Shit is still shit, no matter the grade.
>>Yeah. Why don't they just use the *whole* hop, and more of them? I'm sure
>>that Miller has brewers working for them who know how to get more hop
>>flavor without excessive bitterness. (IMHO a prerequisite for selling
>>to the US mass market.)
I remember hearing somewhere that Miller does some sort of isomerization to
the hops to keep the skunking out of their colorless bottles. If this is
so, that would imply some sort of liquid or extract is used, or at best a
recrystallized product of some sort.
_________________________________________________________________
JG... Jeff Givens
jgi...@netreach.net
"My hovercraft is full of eels."
b.c.shelby
a...@infinet.com wrote:
: I read somewhere that Miller doesn't even use hops in their boil.
: Instead, they use a chemically altered hop extract that is not skunked
: by being stored in clear bottles. Is there any truth to this?
: Aric
...better drinking through chemistry.
--
...b.c.shelby
fur...@teleport.com...
James Clark
I really become suspicious of the origin of Budweiser when I see all
those clydesdales in their beer commercials. Don't laugh, I really do!!!
James Clark
Being a homebrewer I can't help going into hysterics nearly every
time a new beer commercial hits the public eye. Most "Joe Sixpack" types
wouldn't know a quality beer if it fell on them, so I guess that explains
why AB (gag) is the worlds largest "brewer".
I haven't seen this "heart of the hops" one yet, and that reply from
Miller was a typical "un-informational" tapdance. The guy ought to be a
politician.
I get a kick out of another current brewing "process" making the
rounds now, "Ice brewed" beer. What the hell is that. It must be a new
secret process like lagering at near freezing temperatures. Wow, cutting
edge technology. But where does that leave Stroh's "fire-brewed"
horse-piss? Fortunately, we aren't forced to drink that industrial beer.
I'm fortunate to live in the "Micro-Brew" capitol of the U.S.,
Portland, Or. where a lot of halfway decent beers are available. As a
matter of fact, I'm a small stockholder in PORTLAND BREWING, INC. a major
micro brewer in the area... Nothing like tootin' your own horn..
I loved your post.....Jim
Dave Hitt
James Clark <cl...@hevanet.com> wrote:
> I get a kick out of another current brewing "process" making the
>rounds now, "Ice brewed" beer. What the hell is that. It must be a new
>secret process like lagering at near freezing temperatures. Wow, cutting
>edge technology. But where does that leave Stroh's "fire-brewed"
>horse-piss? Fortunately, we aren't forced to drink that industrial beer.
The Simpsons explained it best. Homer and the family were touring the
Duff beer plant. Toward the end of the tour they were shown three
large kegs labeled "Duff" "Duff Light" and "Duff Ice." All three were
fed by the same pipe splitting off three ways.
Commercial beer is much like toothpaste. They're all about the same -
the only difference is the public's perception. It's as if the
manufacturer went to the advertiser, put two identical half dollars on
his desk, and said "Now give me an ad campaign telling my why the one
on the left is vastly superior to the one on the right."
But then, the masses have always been fooled by the mediocre, if not
the inferior. Just look at our presidents for the past three decades,
or the best selling music, or the latest dance craze, the Macarana
(sp?), a dance designed for those who find the Hokey-Pokey too
challenging.
--
Visit Saratoga Avenue, the and oldest and largest social/chat board in Upstate New York.
Twenty One lines, Fourteen CDs, And all the coolest people in the area.
518-899-3292. http://www.wizvax.net/hittman/index.html
Andy Davison
In message <50e176$q...@glisan.hevanet.com>
James Clark <cl...@hevanet.com> writes:
> I get a kick out of another current brewing "process" making the
> rounds now, "Ice brewed" beer. What the hell is that. It must be a new
> secret process like lagering at near freezing temperatures. Wow, cutting
> edge technology.
I think Ice-brewed beer is the result of leaving the beer to freeze
in very cold temperatures and then removing the ice crystals which
form in it. This increases the alcohol content by removing some of
the water and does have some effect on the flavour. Friends of mine
in Canada have been doing this with their home-brew for many years.
They just leave it out on the doorstep during the winter to chill it
and strain it through a sieve. They do this several times with each
batch. Obviously, the brewing giants have been checking out what the
successful home-brewers are doing and just copying them.
Andy Davison
Steven Harrison
> James Clark <cl...@hevanet.com> writes:
>Andy Davison
Actually, this process was originally "invented" in Bavaria, but only
one brewery (that I know of) makes use of it today -- Kulmbacher Reichelbrau
(not counting the "ice" beer major distributers are making today). They call
it Eisbock and it is incredibly superior to any "ice" beer. They use this
process because alcohol content as high as 10% by volume is very difficult to
achieve by normal fermentation. It is of course possible, but most methods
can't achieve such high levels of alcohol because the alcohol actually begins
to stun the yeast. Eisbock is very rich and malty with an actual alcholic
finish. Absolutely delicious (and expensive -- like most classic German beers
sold in the US). It's also difficult to locate, I've only seen it once in the
US (NY city I think).
Steve
Daniel Fernandez
Which begs the further question. A recent Coors ad boasted that Coors was
"frost brewed." I heard the ad while I was drinking a REAL beer and nearly
showered the room with a mouthful of IPA, but I refrained from laughing
long enough to swallow first.
The marketing BS used to coax ignorant swill drinkers from one flavorless
"beer" to another makes be burst into spontaneous laughter.
I don't care if you "frost brew" it, use the "heart of the hops" in it, use
your grandfather's 4 vessels to brew it in, or dump a load of beechwood
sawdust into it. Pisswater by any other ad gimmick is still pisswater.
<evil laughter>
-- Daniel Fernandez
Homebrewer, Sea Kayaker, Beastly Computer Geek
...whose modesty is exceeded only by his good looks and intelligence.
dan...@neptune.net
http://www.neptune.net/~daniel/
David Knauff <kna...@mtnet1.mt.att.com> wrote in article
<322602...@mtnet1.mt.att.com>...
YoYo
Dave Hitt <hit...@wizvax.net> wrote:
>Commercial beer is much like toothpaste. They're all about the same -
>the only difference is the public's perception. It's as if the
>manufacturer went to the advertiser, put two identical half dollars on
>his desk, and said "Now give me an ad campaign telling my why the one
>on the left is vastly superior to the one on the right."
Interestingly (I think, anyway), this technique was pioneered by the
breakfast cereal industry. The thinking is, if you get as many different
brands out there as you can, you can capture several different shades of
brand preference and loyalty. It doesn't matter what the products actually
are, just as long as you can pick up that extra percent of market share.
Alex Caemmerer
yo...@io.com (YoYo) wrote:
>Interestingly (I think, anyway), this technique was pioneered by the
>breakfast cereal industry. The thinking is, if you get as many different
>brands out there as you can, you can capture several different shades of
>brand preference and loyalty. It doesn't matter what the products actually
>are, just as long as you can pick up that extra percent of market share.
I read in a magazine somewhere that in the light beer market they found that two things happened. First, when a brewer introduced a=
"Duff Light" to sell along side his regular "Duff", the sales of both were larger than the sale of the original even though the sal=
es of the original fell. Showing that new people would respond to the "new" beer and not just the old "Duff" regulars. However, if=
people did not like the beer much more than they do any others then they would switch again and sales would go down. This would be=
further agrivated by the introduction of competing lights from other breweries which would have the same short term effect for them=
selves. And secondly, while introduction of an alternative brand name can improve sales the improvement is only temporary and can e=
ven worsen the situation as previously loyal beer drinkers who were wooed from the original beer to the light or ice version are now=
mobilized to try new beers and begin to experiment on their own thus reducing the sales of "Duff" and "Duff Light" even further. T=
he end result of all this is that the first company to try fracturing the market does so with some short lived success, but by doing=
so forces all of the other participants in that market to follow suit just to keep up.
cheers
- Alex
"Start every day off with a smile and get it over with." - W.C. Fields
Mike Avery
In article <199609021...@zetnet.co.uk>, andyd...@zetnet.co.uk
says...
> In message <50e176$q...@glisan.hevanet.com>
> James Clark <cl...@hevanet.com> writes:
>
> > I get a kick out of another current brewing "process" making the
> > rounds now, "Ice brewed" beer. What the hell is that. It must be a
new
> > secret process like lagering at near freezing temperatures. Wow,
cutting
> > edge technology.
>
> in very cold temperatures and then removing the ice crystals which
> form in it. This increases the alcohol content by removing some of
> the water and does have some effect on the flavour. Friends of mine
> in Canada have been doing this with their home-brew for many years.
> They just leave it out on the doorstep during the winter to chill it
> and strain it through a sieve. They do this several times with each
> batch. Obviously, the brewing giants have been checking out what the
> successful home-brewers are doing and just copying them.
Someone else gave a very good explanation of the German process, which is
quite old. As to what the American mage-breweries mean by it, it varies.
Some lager at very cold temperatures, which is self defeating as it slows
lagering a bit too much. Others strain off the ice and up the strength.
However, that's a problem... some states don't like strong beer, and in
any case, after you strain off the ice, there's less "beer" to sell. At
least one brewery just freezes it and thaws it and labels it "ice
brewed". All in all, in this country, "Ice-brewed" is devoid of meaning,
it's just more brainless marketing hype.
Mike
Cattman
What about "Bottled beer in a can!" or Cold filtered or Fire brewed.
Same shit - different cover.
> "Daniel Fernandez" <dan...@neptune.net> wrote in article
<01bb98f5$7e1167e0$d1676bcc@danielfe>...
Dave Hitt
yo...@io.com (YoYo) wrote:
>Interestingly (I think, anyway), this technique was pioneered by the
>breakfast cereal industry. The thinking is, if you get as many different
>brands out there as you can, you can capture several different shades of
>brand preference and loyalty. It doesn't matter what the products actually
>are, just as long as you can pick up that extra percent of market share.
It's used by lots of industries. It doesn't matter if you use Top Job
or Mr. Clean on your floor - the money all goes into the same pocket.
And what's the real reason Jello comes in so many flavors? To take up
as much shelf space as possible, crowding out the competition.
Jeff Imes
Daniel Fernandez wrote:
>
> Which begs the further question. A recent Coors ad boasted that Coors was
> "frost brewed." I heard the ad while I was drinking a REAL beer and nearly
> showered the room with a mouthful of IPA, but I refrained from laughing
> long enough to swallow first.
It makes you wonder how long it will be before some marketing genius
tries to sell "steam-brewed" beer. I'm sure Fritz Maytag would love to
see A-B attempt to make Bud Steam and Bud Steam Lite. Of course, you
know what would follow...Bud Steam Ice.
Gotta love the megas...at least they keep us amused.
--
Jeff Imes | UNIX System Administrator
NCR Corporation | #include <std_disclaimer.h>
Dayton, OH (513) 445-6270 | Go Ohio State Buckeyes!!!
---------------------------+----------------------------
Nietzche: "God is dead." | God: "Nietzche is dead."
RMS
In article <50e176$q...@glisan.hevanet.com>, cl...@hevanet.com says...
>
(...)
> I get a kick out of another current brewing "process" making the
>rounds now, "Ice brewed" beer. What the hell is that. It must be a new
>secret process like lagering at near freezing temperatures.
By partially freezing the beer and draining the liquid, much of
the protein in removed. They then add water back into the beer
to adjust the alcohol. It does improve a poor beer but does
little for a good one. The exception being a German Eisbeer
that is concentrated and left that way.
Another marketing example that annoyed me was a Sam Adams radio
advert that has the maker trying a trial beer that he just brewed
in his kitchen. Wort is not beer, right. RMS
Brian Dixon
Lowering the temperature of the freshly brewed wort to near freezing
levels give a more complete cold break too. It's probably the easiest
way to help prevent chill haze (assuming you can't seem to get rid
of it in other ways).
Brian
PS: I know that was off the original thread, but I was inspired by
it, OK?
Keith Martin
Steven Harrison wrote:
>
> In article <Jeff Imes <im...@ipc88t.daytonoh.ncr.com> writes:
>
> >It makes you wonder how long it will be before some marketing genius
> >tries to sell "steam-brewed" beer. I'm sure Fritz Maytag would love to
> >see A-B attempt to make Bud Steam and Bud Steam Lite. Of course, you
> >know what would follow...Bud Steam Ice.
>
> we've seen no ripoffs.
I've heard that other beers brewed with the same technique are referred
to as "California Common Beer" but I have never seen a beer that so called itself.
--
Keith Martin
-------------
Freedom is merely priviledge extended unless enjoyed by one and all.
Steven Harrison
David Hango
Keith Martin wrote:
> to as "California Common Beer" but I have never seen a beer that so called itself.
How about-Anchor Steam Beer? BTW, it's one of the best-if not the
best-beers produced in the US.
Steven Harrison
David Hango <ic...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>> Steven Harrison wrote:
>> > Luckily, Fritz Maytag actually has trademark on the "Steam" name ... hence
>> > we've seen no ripoffs.
>How about-Anchor Steam Beer? BTW, it's one of the best-if not the
>best-beers produced in the US.
Anchor Steam *is* the trademarked name owned by Fritz Maytag (I agree with
your opinion of Anchor Steam -- in fact, just about every product made by
Anchor is one of the best beers in its class. They are the original American
"micro brewer".)
Mike Avery
In article <harrison.142...@osu.edu>, harris...@osu.edu
says...
> In article <Jeff Imes <im...@ipc88t.daytonoh.ncr.com> writes:
>
> >It makes you wonder how long it will be before some marketing genius
> >tries to sell "steam-brewed" beer. I'm sure Fritz Maytag would love
to
> >see A-B attempt to make Bud Steam and Bud Steam Lite. Of course, you
> >know what would follow...Bud Steam Ice.
>
hence
> we've seen no ripoffs.
Not quite.... according to a letter from another brewer in one of the
brewing magazines, the copyright is a "design copyright", meaning that
they style print Anchor uses, in conjunction with the words Steam beer
are copyrighted. Under the law, there is no reason anyone else can not
call their beer "John's Steam Beer", just so long as they don't use the
same type face or a label that might confuse people into thinking that
they are buying Anchor products.
However, if someone tried that, Anchor would try to bully them into not
using the name Steam Beer. And, so far, they have been successful at it.
It's a shame, because Steam Beer is not a style that Anchor invented or
pioneered. It is a true native American beer, born in California, not an
Anchor breakthrough. However, it is easier to call your beer "California
Common Beer" and not have to go into a long legal battle, the outcome of
which is always uncertain, except for the expense.
Mike
Scoats
I was just at the Ale Street News web site. There is an article by
Michael Jackson about Miller and the Heart of the Hops. The precise
address is below:
http://www.alestreetnews.com/features/jks296.htm
Scoats
The Grey Lodge Pub, Philadelphia PA
----------------------------------------------------------
"I ain't gonna work on Maggie's Farm no more" - B. Dylan
----------------------------------------------------------
sco...@voicenet.com http:\\www.voicenet.com\~scoats
Dave Breneman
In article <199609021...@zetnet.co.uk> Andy Davison <andyd...@zetnet.co.uk> writes:
>In message <50e176$q...@glisan.hevanet.com>
> James Clark <cl...@hevanet.com> writes:
>
>> rounds now, "Ice brewed" beer. What the hell is that. It must be a new
>> edge technology.
>
>I think Ice-brewed beer is the result of leaving the beer to freeze
>in very cold temperatures and then removing the ice crystals which
>form in it. This increases the alcohol content by removing some of
>the water and does have some effect on the flavour.
It's just a cheaper way of making what US laws call "malt liquor" -
high-alcohol, bottom-fermented beer. The "beauty" of the ice
brewing process is that you eliminate the extra fermentation time
normally required to get the higher alcohol level. This is a
style of beer invented by accountants and marketers, not brewers.
> Friends of mine
>in Canada have been doing this with their home-brew for many years.
>They just leave it out on the doorstep during the winter to chill it
>and strain it through a sieve. They do this several times with each
>batch. Obviously, the brewing giants have been checking out what the
>successful home-brewers are doing and just copying them.
Applejack has been made this way for hundreds of years.
--
David Breneman ################# Mondays (really Tuesday)
The Spud Goodman Show ####### ####### at 1:00 AM on KCPQ-13
d...@rosedale.seaslug.org ##### #####
..uunet!camco!rosedale!dcb (_) - - - Ciao.
Curtis Perry
I am hoping this group can tell me if the rumor, about Corona Beer, having
formaldehyde in it as a preservative is true. I enjoy it and would like to
feel comfortable about drinking it.
Thanks
Curtis
--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Curtis J. Perry, DDS
3147 Telegraph Avenue
Oakland, CA 94609-3206
(510)420-1717 Voice
(510)655-2434 FAX
dr...@slip.net
URL:http://slip.net/~drcp
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Gavin Crutcher
Drink it in good health and with no worries. The formaldehyde will
preserve you in your old age.
P.S. You should try drinking something other than pee beer anyway.
Brian Dixon
Curtis Perry wrote:
>
> I am hoping this group can tell me if the rumor, about Corona Beer, having
> formaldehyde in it as a preservative is true. I enjoy it and would like to
> feel comfortable about drinking it.
>
> Thanks
> Curtis
> --
I can't say about Corona, but I just read (in a South African magazine)
that
a similar rumor had been spread about one of the beers there. The
answer for
them was that putting formaldehyde in beer would be very silly and that
they,
of course, don't. They suspected the rumor was started by their
competitors,
but who knows? Normal pasteurization techniques preclude any need for
things
like formaldehyde in beer (and I believe Corona IS pasteurized).
BTW, something that IS true though is that many foods DO have
formaldehyde added
to them...especially canned foods. Just one more reason to eat fresh or
frozen
vegetables (or those you grow yourself).
Brian
Brian Dixon
Gavin Crutcher wrote:
>
> Drink it in good health and with no worries. The formaldehyde will
> preserve you in your old age.
> P.S. You should try drinking something other than pee beer anyway.
>
Pee beer? They all become that eventually anyway! If you want a good
mexican beer (assuming you like pilsners), try Dos Equis...it's a good
Vienna
Lager made in mexico!
-BD
arne thormodsen
Curtis Perry (dr...@slip.net) wrote:
: I am hoping this group can tell me if the rumor, about Corona Beer, having
: formaldehyde in it as a preservative is true. I enjoy it and would like to
: feel comfortable about drinking it.
As far as I know, this rumor and several like it regarding various
Mexican products has been around since I was a kid in LA lo these many
years ago. Formaldehyde has such an obvious taste and smell I don't see
how it could ever have been true. For the record, the first version I
heard regarded shrimp in Tijuana.
Chalk this one up as an urban legend...
--arne
RUst1d?
I also heard the same about Fosters back in the 80's.
--
John Varady
Boneyard Brewing Co.
"Ale today, Gone tomorrow"
Nick Bruels
Brian Dixon (bri...@cv.hp.com) wrote:
> [...] If you want a good
> mexican beer (assuming you like pilsners), try Dos Equis...it's a good
> Vienna
> Lager made in mexico!
Another of my favorite beers for dining-out-where-there's-not-a-local-
beer-to-drink (like at most Mexican restaurants 'round here) is
Negra Modelo, which is more or less a Maerzen lager. Very nice...
Cheers,
nickb (what's with all these Corvallians in here?!?)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ni...@cv.hp.com -is- Nick Bruels at Hewlett-Packard in Corvallis, Oregon
"Portland and Seattle are America's beer capitols." -- M. Jackson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
T-Bone
the way I heard it,
the mexican brewers were pissing in that corona which
was headed for export to the US, and that further,
this beer was indiscernable from their 'good stuff'.
TimW
Philip Gravel
Nick Bruels wrote:
>
> Brian Dixon (bri...@cv.hp.com) wrote:
>
> > [...] If you want a good
> > mexican beer (assuming you like pilsners), try Dos Equis...it's a good
> > Vienna
> > Lager made in mexico!
>
> Another of my favorite beers for dining-out-where-there's-not-a-local-
> beer-to-drink (like at most Mexican restaurants 'round here) is
> Negra Modelo, which is more or less a Maerzen lager. Very nice...
Dos Equis is good, but I agree that Negra Modelo (comes in the squatty
bottles) is better.
--
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgr...@mcs.net
ML Meyer
Why must you make fun of someone's taste. If you don't have anything nice
to say, shove it. Or to each there own.
Rudi de Lange
please send it in two weeks
tpanhead <pan...@superlink.net> wrote:
>Dave Hitt wrote:
>> The Simpsons explained it best. Homer and the family were touring the
>> Duff beer plant. Toward the end of the tour they were shown three
>> large kegs labeled "Duff" "Duff Light" and "Duff Ice." All three were
>> fed by the same pipe splitting off three ways.
>But I kinda wonder if "Duff", like Budwieser,firsts runs that single
>main pipe to some farm animals genitalia sitting outside.That could
>explain a lot.
hr...@imap2.asu.edu
Dos Equis is also Pee beer.....Negro Modelo is the only good one...
Philip Gravel (pgr...@mcs.net) wrote:
--
******************************************************************************
John Ive Duic Email: hr...@IMAP2.asu.edu
******************************************************************************
T-Bone
I'll drink to that. NM is *excellent*.
Relief
On 10 Sep 1996, Nick Bruels wrote:
> Brian Dixon (bri...@cv.hp.com) wrote:
>
> > [...] If you want a good
> > mexican beer (assuming you like pilsners), try Dos Equis...it's a good
> > Vienna
> > Lager made in mexico!
>
> Another of my favorite beers for dining-out-where-there's-not-a-local-
> beer-to-drink (like at most Mexican restaurants 'round here) is
> Negra Modelo, which is more or less a Maerzen lager. Very nice...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
**It is, in fact, a Vienna lager, sometimes referred to as a Marzen.
Scott Jones
Curtis Perry wrote:
>
> I am hoping this group can tell me if the rumor, about Corona Beer, having
> formaldehyde in it as a preservative is true. I enjoy it and would like to
> feel comfortable about drinking it.
>
> Curtis
A lot of beers do, it depends on how far they have to ship. If you
visit Japan or somewhere in the far east, DRINK LOCAL. ( the increased
preservatives give you a whopper of a headache. )
B Mansfield
Relief <rel...@efn.org> writes:
On the bottle it says, "A dark ale."
--
Bruce Mansfield
riko...@u.washington.edu
Issue #3 of Asbestos Online Literature is now out:
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~milhous/asbestos.html
T-Bone
B Mansfield wrote:
(regarding Negro Modelo)
> On the bottle it says, "A dark ale."
It does indeed and it's a mystery, because that dark silkiness
seems only possible from a lagered beverage.
TimW
Wayne Nielsen
In article <323788...@poi.net>, sjo...@poi.net says...
> > formaldehyde in it as a preservative is true. I enjoy it and would
> > like to
> > feel comfortable about drinking it.
>
> visit Japan or somewhere in the far east, DRINK LOCAL. ( the increased
> preservatives give you a whopper of a headache. )
From the few articles I have seen places like the Philppines,
Korea, and Turkey, don't use formaldehyde to preserve their beer. It is
used to sanitize the water before they use it to brew. These places do
not have the best water treatment.
Wayne
T-Bone
ML Meyer wrote:
>
> Why must you make fun of someone's taste. If you don't have anything nice
> to say, shove it. Or to each there own.
It is called having a sense of humor, for one.
Think.
This is a group of people that care enough about beer to hand craft it
themselves. Of course they will point out those beers made by people
who seem to make a really inferior product and market it to the masses.
HELL it's our JOB, man.
TimW
arne thormodsen
: > [...] If you want a good
: > mexican beer (assuming you like pilsners), try Dos Equis...it's a good
: > Vienna
: > Lager made in mexico!
: Another of my favorite beers for dining-out-where-there's-not-a-local-
: beer-to-drink (like at most Mexican restaurants 'round here) is
: Negra Modelo, which is more or less a Maerzen lager. Very nice...
: Cheers,
: nickb (what's with all these Corvallians in here?!?)
Theory 1 - HP is well connected to the internet and being in Corvallis,
in the heart of the Willamette in Brewvana, causes us to appreciate fine
beer.
Theory 2 - Something about working here causes us to think about
drinking beer fairly often... ;-)
--arne (A California refugee, working in CVL, the guys who brought you
VUE and CDE on HP-UX workstations)
P.S. - For those not in the know, Corvallis is a medium-sized town in
the middle of western Oregon between Salem and Eugene. From a brewing
perspective it is near a tiny ink spot on the map called Philomath, from
whence is shipped lots of hops. It also is blessed with a huge Hewlett-
Packard site, a pretty cool old-fashioned downtown (and *no* shopping
malls!), two brew-pubs and one "British style" pub with lots of taps,
much surrounding forest and farms, my wife, and, of course, my beer... :-)
: --
Nick Bruels
Relief (rel...@efn.org) wrote:
> On 10 Sep 1996, Nick Bruels wrote:
[Dos Equis (XX)]
> > Another of my favorite beers for dining-out-where-there's-not-a-local-
> > beer-to-drink (like at most Mexican restaurants 'round here) is
> > Negra Modelo, which is more or less a Maerzen lager. Very nice...
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> **It is, in fact, a Vienna lager, sometimes referred to as a Marzen.
Hold on, there, you style cop! ;) I don't have Jackson here at
work, but I thought the XX is described as Vienna, and that the
NM was described as "broadly in the Maerzen style". I concede that
I may be wrong, and that Jackson sez "broadly in the Vienna style"...
however, I still think that the two (XX and NM) represent a range
between Vienna and Maerzen fairly well...
Cheers,
nickb
Nick Bruels
arne thormodsen (ar...@cv.hp.com) wrote:
> Nick Bruels (ni...@cv.hp.com) wrote:
> : Brian Dixon (bri...@cv.hp.com) wrote:
> : > [...] If you want a good
> : (what's with all these Corvallians in here?!?)
I can't for the life of me recall an instance of three
separate Cornvallians posting in a single non-Cornvalley
thread before! :)
> Theory 1 - HP is well connected to the internet and being in Corvallis,
> in the heart of the Willamette in Brewvana, causes us to appreciate fine
> beer.
> Theory 2 - Something about working here causes us to think about
> drinking beer fairly often... ;-)
> --arne (A California refugee, working in CVL, the guys who brought you
> VUE and CDE on HP-UX workstations)
> P.S. - For those not in the know, Corvallis is a medium-sized town in
> the middle of western Oregon between Salem and Eugene. From a brewing
> perspective it is near a tiny ink spot on the map called Philomath, from
> whence is shipped lots of hops. It also is blessed with a huge Hewlett-
> Packard site, a pretty cool old-fashioned downtown (and *no* shopping
> malls!), two brew-pubs and one "British style" pub with lots of taps,
> much surrounding forest and farms, my wife, and, of course, my beer... :-)
Hold on--where's this second brewpub?!? I don't live in Corvallis
any more, so perhaps I'm out of touch, but me miss out on a new
brewpub in town?
Also, hops are grown up and down the Willamette valley (where
Corvallis is situated in the middle Southwest thereof) and processed
through a few places, including Freshops in Philomath. Near where
I live, there are pretty decent-sized hop fields, which are now
nearly completely harvested (Sep 12). In fact, I've got a few
photo's of said hop fields scanned and included as jpg's on my
beer page at www.teleport.com/~nickb/beer.html. Shameless plug
for one's ego display, I know.
Wayne Ward
Could this be one of those wierd labeling laws? I've read that in Texas
the law requires that beer over a certain alcoholic strength is labeled as
ale wether it is or not, who imports Negro Modelo into the US? My
understand is that Negro Modelo is a vienna lager.
Wayne
Philip Gravel
> :
> : Dos Equis is good, but I agree that Negra Modelo (comes in the squatty
> : bottles) is better.
No, Corona is Pee beer. Dos Equis is better. Negra Modelo is much,
much better.
ML Meyer
A 'really inferior product' is your opinion. Obviously Curtis (and
millions of others) don't think it is, or else the Corona Corp. wouldn't
be rolling in the money. The question asked about formaldahyde, not about
anybody's thoughts on a beer he likes to drink. Obviously, if he did
there would be a thousand different responses. I just baffles me that when
anyone mentions these types there is a constant stomping on them.
I think your job should be helping everybody learn more about beer (which,
bu the way, you do well when you answer the questions) and less about
ridiculing other's taste's.
Student Connection
arne thormodsen wrote:
>
> Curtis Perry (dr...@slip.net) wrote:
> : I am hoping this group can tell me if the rumor, about Corona Beer, having
> : feel comfortable about drinking it.
>
> Mexican products has been around since I was a kid in LA lo these many
> years ago. Formaldehyde has such an obvious taste and smell I don't see
> how it could ever have been true. For the record, the first version I
> heard regarded shrimp in Tijuana.
>
> Chalk this one up as an urban legend...
>
> --arne
I think the readers have been misinformed it is only if you drink too
much Corona you will die and then end up in Formaldhyde.
Mike Avery
In article <323819...@rof.net>, twa...@rof.net says...
> B Mansfield wrote:
> (regarding Negro Modelo)
> > On the bottle it says, "A dark ale."
>
> It does indeed and it's a mystery, because that dark silkiness
> seems only possible from a lagered beverage.
The mystery is easily resolved. A number of beer writers describe Negro
Modelo as the last commercial example of a Vienna Lager. (No, DOS Equis
is not a Vienna Lager, it's closer to a bock.)
However, the importer into the US is, as far as I know, in Texas. And in
Texas we have strange laws. One is that a beer must be labeled based on
it's alcohol content. No, not in any reasonable fashion, such as saying
"3.5% by volume". If a beer has less than a certain amount of alcohol,
it is a "beer". If it has more than that it is an "ale". If it has more
than another magic number it's a "malt liquor".
Some people in Texas, and elsewhere, think this is absurd as there are a
number of beers in this state bearing the "ale" label that are no such
thing.
Mike
Brett Ziehl
arne thormodsen wrote:
>
> Curtis Perry (dr...@slip.net) wrote:
> : I am hoping this group can tell me if the rumor, about Corona Beer, having
> : formaldehyde in it as a preservative is true. I enjoy it and would like to
> : feel comfortable about drinking it.
>
> As far as I know, this rumor and several like it regarding various
> Mexican products has been around since I was a kid in LA lo these many
> years ago. Formaldehyde has such an obvious taste and smell I don't see
> how it could ever have been true. For the record, the first version I
> heard regarded shrimp in Tijuana.
>
> Chalk this one up as an urban legend...
>
> --arne
in mashes to reduce the polyphenol (or tannin) content of the finished
beer. This gives a beer which is more stable from a clarity point of
view. It is frowned upon nowadays, and I wouldn't recommend the
practice. Beers that are bottled in clear glass are more visible, so any
haze will be spotted easily. This is the first time I have heard about
this rumour. I can't afford the stuff anyway so i'm not worried. Maybe
it will preserve your liver a bit longer! :-)
T-Bone
> arne thormodsen wrote:[some deleted]
>the first version I heard regarded shrimp in Tijuana.
If you could expound on this, this thread might have some worth
afterall. If it not in the best taste, then please email me
'the rest of the story'.
TimW
T-Bone
It says right here in my job description...
"As a craft brewer you WILL make fun of Budweiser, Miller, Coors,
Corona, Pearl and Longhorn".
Hey, I just don't wanna lose my license man.
TimW
MSgt WLong
It was remored about San Miguel in the Philipines back in the 60"s
Keith B. Rider
I have heard that formaldehyde is one of the by-products of the
breakdown of alcohol in your blood. Perhaps this is part of the rumor.
Keith
Grey N. Horton
In article <MPLANET.3239a6...@news.pernet.net>,
mav...@pernet.net (Mike Avery) wrote:
> In article <323819...@rof.net>, twa...@rof.net says...
> > B Mansfield wrote:
> > (regarding Negro Modelo)
> > > On the bottle it says, "A dark ale."
> >
> > It does indeed and it's a mystery, because that dark silkiness
> > seems only possible from a lagered beverage.
>
> The mystery is easily resolved. A number of beer writers describe Negro
> Modelo as the last commercial example of a Vienna Lager. (No, DOS Equis
> is not a Vienna Lager, it's closer to a bock.)
I disagree. It's _way_ too light in body to be a bock, in my opinion.
>
> However, the importer into the US is, as far as I know, in Texas. And in
> Texas we have strange laws. One is that a beer must be labeled based on
> it's alcohol content. No, not in any reasonable fashion, such as saying
> "3.5% by volume". If a beer has less than a certain amount of alcohol,
> it is a "beer". If it has more than that it is an "ale". If it has more
> than another magic number it's a "malt liquor".
>
> Some people in Texas, and elsewhere, think this is absurd as there are a
> number of beers in this state bearing the "ale" label that are no such
> thing.
I believe that this is a federal idea (no wonder it's screwed up). Take a
look at any barley wine, such as Sierra Nevada's Bigfoot or Anchor's Old
Foghorn and you'll see the label says "Barley Wine Style Ale". I've seen
a few references to the legalistic in brewing and beer books and have seen
the labeling for myself in several states, so I know it isn't limited to
Texas.
Grey N. Horton
In article <323AFA...@uclink4.berkeley.edu>, "Keith B. Rider"
<kbr...@uclink4.berkeley.edu> wrote:
From what I remember from Organic Chem, enthanol is oxidized to a
carboxilic acid (I can't even spell this crap anymore) and then to
ethylaldehyde (basicly formaldhyde with a CH3 group instead of a
hydrogen). I don't know what the metabolites are from there, but that's
what I can remember. Hope it helps.
Grey Horton
Scott Jones
> > > like to
> > > feel comfortable about drinking it.
> >
> > visit Japan or somewhere in the far east, DRINK LOCAL. ( the increased
> > preservatives give you a whopper of a headache. )
>
> From the few articles I have seen places like the Philppines,
> Korea, and Turkey, don't use formaldehyde to preserve their beer. It is
> used to sanitize the water before they use it to brew. These places do
> not have the best water treatment.
>
> Wayne
Correct. That's why you drink a local beer. The beer shipped halfway
around the world requires stronger preservatives.
S.J.-
H. Dowda
Ugggh Oh.
You mean my Morrells Oxford IPA shipped from England to California has
extra preservatives??? Any idea what they may be?
stonehenge
>Hold on--where's this second brewpub?!? I don't live in Corvallis
>any more, so perhaps I'm out of touch, but me miss out on a new
>brewpub in town?
>
>Also, hops are grown up and down the Willamette valley (where
>Corvallis is situated in the middle Southwest thereof) and processed
>through a few places, including Freshops in Philomath. Near where
>I live, there are pretty decent-sized hop fields, which are now
>nearly completely harvested (Sep 12). In fact, I've got a few
>photo's of said hop fields scanned and included as jpg's on my
>beer page at www.teleport.com/~nickb/beer.html. Shameless plug
>for one's ego display, I know.
>
>Cheers,
>
>nickb
>--
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ni...@cv.hp.com -is- Nick Bruels at Hewlett-Packard in Corvallis, Oregon
> "Portland and Seattle are America's beer capitols." -- M. Jackson
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
There is also a Brew/Pub in Klamath Falls.
Regards,
Stoney
Lew Bryson
Grey N. Horton wrote on Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:04:32 -0600:
> In article <MPLANET.3239a6...@news.pernet.net>,
> mav...@pernet.net (Mike Avery) wrote:
> > In article <323819...@rof.net>, twa...@rof.net says...
> > > B Mansfield wrote:
> > > (regarding Negro Modelo)
> > > > On the bottle it says, "A dark ale."
Negro
> > Modelo as the last commercial example of a Vienna Lager. (No, DOS
Equis
> > is not a Vienna Lager, it's closer to a bock.)
> I disagree. It's _way_ too light in body to be a bock, in my
opinion.
> >
> > However, the importer into the US is, as far as I know, in Texas.
And in
> > Texas we have strange laws. One is that a beer must be labeled
based on
> > it's alcohol content. No, not in any reasonable fashion, such as
saying
> > "3.5% by volume". If a beer has less than a certain amount of
alcohol,
> > it is a "beer". If it has more than that it is an "ale". If it
has more
> > than another magic number it's a "malt liquor".
Close, but not quite. Although not a TX resident, I talked to the Texas
Alcoholic Beverage Commission recently for an article due out in the
next Malt Advocate. The following quote is what they told me about
this:
"In Texas, any beer under 4% Alcohol By Weight (ABW) is called 礎eer.'
Any beer over 4% ABW may not be called 礎eer', but must be called
疎le', 壮tout', or 叢orter', regardless of the style. This is
presumably to let Texans know what they're getting into, although a
simple ABW percentage would seem to be enough."
> > Some people in Texas, and elsewhere, think this is absurd as there
are a
> > number of beers in this state bearing the "ale" label that are no
such
> > thing.
> I believe that this is a federal idea (no wonder it's screwed up).
Take a
> look at any barley wine, such as Sierra Nevada's Bigfoot or Anchor's
Old
> Foghorn and you'll see the label says "Barley Wine Style Ale". I've
seen
> a few references to the legalistic in brewing and beer books and have
seen
> the labeling for myself in several states, so I know it isn't limited
to
> Texas.
Again, in research for this article (on beer labeling), I learned that
90+% of labeling absurdities in the U.S. are the results of state laws.
The 'barley-wine style ale' is an exception, and stems from the ATF's
mandate (they must approve ALL labeling) to avoid any consumer
'deception': we consumers are too stoopit to know that 'barleyWINE' is
a beer. Likewise, the ATF had shitfits when a micro near here (Victory,
in Downingtown, PA) wanted to name their (excellent) Export-style lager
"Brandywine Lager", after the local Brandywine River. It is now known
as "Brandywine VALLEY Lager." Pettifoggery, but not as ridiculous, I
would submit, as Celis Pale BOCK. Thanks, Texas...
Lew Bryson
sms...@prodigy.com
"Do the best thing you can for your beer -- drink it!"
Lew Bryson
Nick Bruels wrote on 12 Sep 1996 20:11:21 GMT:
> Relief (rel...@efn.org) wrote:
> > On 10 Sep 1996, Nick Bruels wrote:
> > > Another of my favorite beers for
dining-out-where-there's-not-a-local-
> > > beer-to-drink (like at most Mexican restaurants 'round here) is
> > > Negra Modelo, which is more or less a Maerzen lager. Very > >
> > **It is, in fact, a Vienna lager, sometimes referred to as a
Marzen.
>
> Hold on, there, you style cop! ;) I don't have Jackson here at
> work, but I thought the XX is described as Vienna, and that the
> NM was described as "broadly in the Maerzen style". I concede that
> I may be wrong, and that Jackson sez "broadly in the Vienna style"...
> however, I still think that the two (XX and NM) represent a range
> between Vienna and Maerzen fairly well...
There comes a time when we must set Jackson aside and venture out on
our own... to find the truth at the side of other masters, or perhaps,
for ourselves.
It is the considered opinion of a number of lesser lights (Nick
Funnell, late of Dock Street, among them, an avid researcher of styles)
that Negro Modela actually represents one of the few remaining
commercial examples of a Mexican style known as Oscura, which Nick
(Funnell, that is!) describes as "a slightly darker and more
chocolate-like version of the Vienna lager style." (I'm quoting from a
back issue of Malt Advocate.) Nick notes Noche Buena as in this style,
and then takes a hell of a leap and includes Yuengling Porter in the
style. Not as odd as it sounds, considering that YP is bottom-fermented
and therefore closer to a Vienna than to a porter...
Anyway, thought I'd throw that in just to stir the pot. Jackson's good,
Jackson's DAMN good, but... the man DID give Coors two stars.
'Nuff said.
John R. Prather
In article <Pine.A32.3.92a.96091...@homer15.u.washington.edu>,
Wayne Ward <wcw...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>Could this be one of those wierd labeling laws? I've read that in Texas
>the law requires that beer over a certain alcoholic strength is labeled as
>ale wether it is or not, who imports Negro Modelo into the US? My
>understand is that Negro Modelo is a vienna lager.
> Wayne
I've heard that legend, too. I heard that in some states the law prescribed
labeling to read beer for beverages under 6.2, malt liquor from 6.2 to 9.2 and
up to 12.2 ale. Don't know where it came from or if it is still in force. It
did affect the labeling and naming of beers in the US though. In germany, malt
liquor was once defined is a bev made with less than all malt having unmalted
grain or sugar added. Since almost all of the american domestic beers fit that
description, who know what it means.
Does anyone else know anything about this legend
E. Andersen
I traveled to Albany, New York this past weekend on business. After my
meetings were over, I decided it was time for a good local micro. Having
never been to the Empire State, I was looking forward to trying a local
brew. I decided to try a Ruffian Porter. MAN - That stuff is rich! I
couldn't even finish the bottle! I should emphasize that I am a stout and
porter drinker by choice - Steelhead stout, Anchor Porter, and Black Butte
porter are a few of my favorites. But this stuff - whew! You could
spread it on the ceiling with a concrete trowel!
Isn't it great that there are so many brews out there? I don't hope to
like them all; that would be boring. Can't wait to try my next new one.
Mike Uchima
hort...@gold.tc.umn.edu (Grey N. Horton) writes:
|> In article <MPLANET.3239a6...@news.pernet.net>,
|> > Some people in Texas, and elsewhere, think this is absurd as there are a
|> > number of beers in this state bearing the "ale" label that are no such
|> > thing.
|>
More likely, the brewers just don't want to be bothered with having
to deal with different labels for different states.
-- Mike Uchima
-- uch...@fncrd8.fnal.gov
arne thormodsen
Nick Bruels (ni...@cv.hp.com) wrote:
: Hold on--where's this second brewpub?!? I don't live in Corvallis
: any more, so perhaps I'm out of touch, but me miss out on a new
: brewpub in town?
Sigh... you are right. I was counting the Old World Deli and McMenamins,
but McMenamins ships their beer down from Portland I think. Call it a
case of over-enthusiasm. The third place is The Fox and Firkin, and is
definitely worth checking out. They also make potato pancakes on Sunday that
are awesome.
: Also, hops are grown up and down the Willamette valley (where
: Corvallis is situated in the middle Southwest thereof) and processed
: through a few places, including Freshops in Philomath. Near where
: I live, there are pretty decent-sized hop fields, which are now
: nearly completely harvested (Sep 12). In fact, I've got a few
: photo's of said hop fields scanned and included as jpg's on my
: beer page at www.teleport.com/~nickb/beer.html. Shameless plug
: for one's ego display, I know.
The whole darn internet is a machine for ego-display, so you are in
good company... :-)
--arne (Finally moved to our new house, so I have time to brew again. Wheee!)
The Generalissimo
Scott Jones wrote:
>
> Wayne Nielsen wrote:
> >
> > In article <323788...@poi.net>, sjo...@poi.net says...
> > > > formaldehyde in it as a preservative is true. I enjoy it and would
> > > > like to
> > > > feel comfortable about drinking it.
> > >
> > > A lot of beers do, it depends on how far they have to ship. If you
> > > visit Japan or somewhere in the far east, DRINK LOCAL. ( the increased
> > > preservatives give you a whopper of a headache. )
> >
> > From the few articles I have seen places like the Philppines,
> > Korea, and Turkey, don't use formaldehyde to preserve their beer. It is
> > used to sanitize the water before they use it to brew. These places do
> > not have the best water treatment.
> >
> > Wayne
>
> Correct. That's why you drink a local beer. The beer shipped halfway
> around the world requires stronger preservatives.
> S.J.-
Actually the correct answer is no, corona comes by its shitty taste naturally. There
are no beers shipped out of any country that have formaldehyde in them. It simply would
not be accepted in the other countries. Now for you real knowledgable beer drinkers,
What is the ONLY beer made that is preserved with formaldehyde? It is Stella-not for
export. The label is clearly marked not for export. The stella export is quite good.
It is brewed in egypt (cairo I think). Stella domestic has a very strong taste of
formaldehyde.
Todd Schreibman
I regularly go to the Micro the produces Ruffian (Mountain valley brew
pub).
They are not that consistant between batches, but I have never found it
to be that rich.
I like it.
Next time you're in New York try to find Big Indian Porter by Woodstock
brewery.
_________________________________________________________
Todd S
Mike Avery
In article <518dhi$q...@nntp4.u.washington.edu>, riko...@u.washington.edu
says...> >> > mexican beer (assuming you like pilsners), try Dos Equis...it's a
good
> >> > Vienna
> >> > Lager made in mexico!
> >> Another of my favorite beers for dining-out-where-there's-not-a-
local-
> >> beer-to-drink (like at most Mexican restaurants 'round here) is
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >**It is, in fact, a Vienna lager, sometimes referred to as a Marzen.
>
To repeat the sad story again....
Negro Modelo's importer, or at least one of them, is in Texas.
Texas has strange liquor laws.
One of the strange liquor laws requires that a beer be labeled based on
it's alcoholic strength.
If a beer has a certain amount of alcohol or less, it's a beer. If it
has some more, it's an ale. If it has some more, it's a malt liquor.
The Texas Alcohol Control Board is not too fussy about beer styles, yeast
types, or any of that limp-wristed sissy stuff. It has the appropriate
amount of alcohol, so it's an ale.
There are times when I am embarassed to be a Texan. Another time was
when the same gang of cretins banned Dixie's "Blackened VooDoo Lager"
from Texas because the label had "Satanic Symbols" on it. They later
relented. The beer is not, from all accounts, that good, but the actions
of the control board are strange and wonderous.
In any case, almost any beer book you pick up will describe Negro Modello
as "one of the last surviving commercial examples of a Vienna Lager",
despite the label that says "dark ale".
Mike
Joel_Plutchak
In article <MPLANET.323d8e...@news.pernet.net> mav...@pernet.net (Mike Avery) writes:
>The Texas Alcohol Control Board is not too fussy about beer styles, yeast
>types, or any of that limp-wristed sissy stuff. It has the appropriate
>amount of alcohol, so it's an ale.
>
>There are times when I am embarassed to be a Texan. Another time was
>when the same gang of cretins banned Dixie's "Blackened VooDoo Lager"
>from Texas because the label had "Satanic Symbols" on it. They later
>relented.
The story I heard about that is Lousiana countered that if the
ban on Blackened Voodoo stood they'd ban the import of Lone Star
into LA, because of the satanic pentacle logo of Lone Star.
--
Joel Plutchak
Nick Bruels
Grey N. Horton (hort...@gold.tc.umn.edu) wrote:
> In article <MPLANET.3239a6...@news.pernet.net>,
> mav...@pernet.net (Mike Avery) wrote:
> > In article <323819...@rof.net>, twa...@rof.net says...
> > > B Mansfield wrote:
> > > (regarding Negro Modelo)
> > > > On the bottle it says, "A dark ale."
> > >
> > > It does indeed and it's a mystery, because that dark silkiness
> > > seems only possible from a lagered beverage.
> >
> > The mystery is easily resolved. A number of beer writers describe Negro
> > Modelo as the last commercial example of a Vienna Lager. (No, DOS Equis
> > is not a Vienna Lager, it's closer to a bock.)
> I disagree. It's _way_ too light in body to be a bock, in my opinion.
> >
> > However, the importer into the US is, as far as I know, in Texas. And in
> > Texas we have strange laws. One is that a beer must be labeled based on
> > it's alcohol content. No, not in any reasonable fashion, such as saying
> > "3.5% by volume". If a beer has less than a certain amount of alcohol,
> > it is a "beer". If it has more than that it is an "ale". If it has more
> > than another magic number it's a "malt liquor".
> >
> > Some people in Texas, and elsewhere, think this is absurd as there are a
> > number of beers in this state bearing the "ale" label that are no such
> > thing.
> I believe that this is a federal idea (no wonder it's screwed up). Take a
> look at any barley wine, such as Sierra Nevada's Bigfoot or Anchor's Old
> Foghorn and you'll see the label says "Barley Wine Style Ale". I've seen
> a few references to the legalistic in brewing and beer books and have seen
> the labeling for myself in several states, so I know it isn't limited to
> Texas.
No, it's actually a state-by-state issue. As evidence, I offer
the case of the Thomas Kemper (brewed in Washington) Oktoberfest
Lager (as labeled, including the 5.0% abv designation) chilling
nicely in my fridge. It doesn't say anything at all about
being a "bock" or an "ale" or a "malt liquor". There are also
countless examples of other beers brewed in WA, OR, and other
states which are accurately and correctly labeled without any
deference to silly, arcane, superstitious, prohibitionary
legalities. The point is that these are actually the states'
tactics, not the fed's.
Cheers,
nickb
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lew Bryson
John R. Prather wrote on Mon, 16 Sep 1996 02:46:48 GMT:
<SNIP>
> I've heard that legend, too. I heard that in some states the law
prescribed
> labeling to read beer for beverages under 6.2, malt liquor from 6.2
to 9.2 and
> up to 12.2 ale. Don't know where it came from or if it is still in
force. It
> did affect the labeling and naming of beers in the US though. In
germany, malt
> liquor was once defined is a bev made with less than all malt having
unmalted
> grain or sugar added. Since almost all of the american domestic
beers fit that
> description, who know what it means.
>
> Does anyone else know anything about this legend
There are a wide variety of alcohol level laws in the states,
unfortunately. They are generally paternalistic, 'we know better than
you do what's good for you' kind of laws. Most of them have no logical
basis, most of them are deeply rooted in rear-guard actions by
Prohibitionists in the days after Repeal.
Texas currently has a two-tier system of alcohol strength labeling, as
does Colorado and some other states. Some states just prohibit beer
above a certain strength--yet they sell wine and liquor. Like I said,
paternalistic and illogical. American beer drinkers need to take action
on these laws. Unfortunately, the only national organization is Beer
Drinkers of America, which is a stalking horse for the big brewers and
wholesalers, who generally like things the way they are. BDA mostly
only campaigns for lower beer taxes.
According to an official at BATF I spoke with recently, 'malt liquor'
is not an official term of the Federal gov't, but rather a commercial
term recognized by the general public as denoting a beer of 'greater
than normal strength,' i.e., stronger than about 5.5% ABV. HOWEVER,
some states DO use it as a legal term... It's so confusing and
annoying.
MSgt WLong
This is'nt the only reson to home brew but at least we (homebrewers) know
we're getting an honest brew!
Environmental Evaluation and Lab Services, Inc.
Just for everyones edification:
If you drink beer with alcohol in it, your body will turn this into
formaldahyde in your liver as an intermediate to completely breaking
it down and removing it from your blood.
Ever hear the phrase "pickle your liver"?
Ask any chemical pathologist or check out an organic textbook
Cheers!
arne thormodsen
Environmental Evaluation and Lab Services, Inc. (envi...@net-link.net) wrote:
: Just for everyones edification:
: If you drink beer with alcohol in it, your body will turn this into
: formaldahyde in your liver as an intermediate to completely breaking
Acetylaldehyde I think. Methanol turns into formaldehyde, which is why
it is so much more toxic than ethanol.
--arne
: it down and removing it from your blood.
jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch
In article <51rsd4$e...@leol.net-link.net> envi...@net-link.net (Environmental Evaluation and Lab Services, Inc.) writes:
>If you drink beer with alcohol in it, your body will turn this into
>formaldahyde in your liver as an intermediate to completely breaking
difference between drinking ethyl alcohol (drinking alcohol) and
methyl alcohol (deadly poison).
Methyl turns into formaldahyde, that's why it makes you blind.
>Ask any chemical pathologist or check out an organic textbook
I've done that, and now I suggest that YOU do that. Furthermore,
I suggest you stop with the scare tactics.
--
Copyright alice!jj 1996, all rights reserved, except transmission by USENET
and like facilities granted. This notice must be included. Any use by a
provider charging in any way for the IP represented in and by this article
and any inclusion in print or other media are specifically prohibited.
AL SZYMANSKI
i'm not a big ruffian stoudt fan, but the red ale and
pale ale are very nice ... they've got an oktoberfest
beer out now that's tasty ... & i once had a smoked porter at their
brewpub that was wild ...
when confronted by the mind-numbing rainbow of labels
at my local distributor, its good to know you can
reach for the ruffian label & know your gonna get
something good ... then again, its always hard to
get my grasp to extend beyond rogue's nutbrown
nectar.
Peter Gilbreth
I think brewers should be required to give the actual address where the
beer was brewed. I think all ingredients should be listed, as well as
alcohol content, as well as a date of initial fermentation. And all this
doublespeak
that they use, ie., "The Heart of the Hop" must stop. Beer is a noble
drink
and us brewers should take it upon ourselves to maintain the integrity of
our greatest love........................bier.
-
PETER GILBRETH UQAM45A@BarleyWine/prodigy.com
Trh2130
Formaldehyde is used in the making of Miller High Life. How do you think
the beer stays fresh in that clear bottle?
Tim