Okay, why aren't there more brewpubs in Los Angeles?
randa...@comcast.net
I can't seem to figure this one out. Everyone I know enjoys craft beers
and mirco brews, I know a lot of homebrewers, yet there are very few
brewpubs is Los Angeles, especially on the Westside... compared to SF,
Portland, Seattle,etc..
Is there a specific reason? Is it permits? regulations? If anyone has
tried to open one, I'd be interested to know your experience.
Cheers,
Randall
Steve Jackson
news:1127639425.1...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
There are plenty of brewpubs in the LA area. As you know from living here
(well, I'm assuming you live here), everything's spread all over the place
around here, and looking for a concentration of anything is a fool's errand.
LA itself doesn't have much in the way of brewpubs. There's nothing about
permitting, etc. that makes it more onerous to open a pub here than anywhere
else. But real estate is insanely expensive, and the tax burden isn't
exactly light. And the specific neighborhood you mention - the West Side -
is doubly insanely expensive. Add in the fact that breweries of any sort
take a lot of capital investment, and it takes a lot of money to get a pub
open in LA.
(Note, there is one brewpub on the west side, Westwood Brewing Co, right by
UCLA. And there's Bonaventure downtown.)
But the bigger reason, I'd say, is that LA is not really a beer town. Sure,
there are plenty of good beers available here, and there are pubs in the
greater LA area that I would hold up against any pub from any other city in
the U.S. (Father's Office in Santa Monica, Lucky Baldwin's in Pasadena, Cafe
Boogaloo in Hermosa Beach). There's bound to be good beer here just by sheer
size of the place. But beer does not pervade the culture here like it does
on the northern half of the west coast, starting from San Francisco on up.
Hell, LA doesn't even come close to San Diego in terms of a beer culture.
And so, there's not the built-in demand here like in other cities.
But as I mentioned earlier, you need to get outside of LA itself, and you'll
start finding plenty of brewpubs. Some are chains - there are some Gordon
Biersches and Rock Bottoms around, and there are plenty of BJ's pubs and
restaurants (not all brew on premisis). But there are plenty of locals.
Almost every city in the South Bay has at least one (Manhattan, Redondo,
Torrance, plus one in San Pedro, which if I want to be pedantic is in LA).
Long Beach has one of the better ones in the area, Belmont Brewing Co.
There's one in Pasadena, there are several in Orange County.
Yeah, the concentration isn't as great in LA as it is in a lot of places.
But as I said, LA's not really a beer town. Add in the cost of doing
business here, and it's not tough to see that the market presents the
obstacles, not any sort of regulatory issues.
-Steve
randa...@comcast.net
There are some great tap houses (Fathers Office, Library Alehouse, Four
Points Sheraton LAX for bottles), but Im definately missing the local
craft beer culture here in Los Angeles. I get thta real estate is
expensive, but its stange that both Westwood Brewing and Manhattan
Beach Brewery are both in very high rent districts, yet have survived.
Heck, every Brewski's survived for a long time, and its wasnt that
good!
John S.
There's a lot more real estate in the greater LA area for brewpubs to
hide :-). Portland is tiny in comparison.....
Try a very busy old favorite: Manhattan Beach Brewing Company
Scott Kaczorowski
news:8ABZe.11369$y64.2625@trnddc06:
> <randa...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1127639425.1...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..
> .
>
>> I can't seem to figure this one out. Everyone I know
>> enjoys craft beers and mirco brews, I know a lot of
>> homebrewers, yet there are very few brewpubs is Los
>> Angeles, especially on the Westside... compared to SF,
>> Portland, Seattle,etc..
>>
>> Is there a specific reason? Is it permits? regulations? If
>> anyone has tried to open one, I'd be interested to know
>> your experience.
>
> There are plenty of brewpubs in the LA area.
It depends on one's definition of "LA".
> LA itself doesn't have much in the way of brewpubs.
"LA itself" is quite not very much bigly. "LA" really means "LA
County" 'round here. Or so it seems to me.
> There's
> nothing about permitting, etc. that makes it more onerous
> to open a pub here than anywhere else.
It's not s'pensive in Po'tland? ANYWHERE else? How many
brewpubs does Honolulu have?
> But the bigger reason, I'd say, is that LA is not really a
> beer town.
There was a time when brewpubs came on went on a yearly basis.
The Commander and I bagged them all, but I cannot remember most
of the names... The Italian Brewery in Sunset Beach. Some
castle thing in ??? nearish Monrovia-ish. A whole string of
brewpubs up there against the San Gabes (oh, yeah, Sierra
Madre). The pub in the Marina Pacifica that changed hands at
least twice (A victim of Malcolm's poor skill as a brewer,
though he was the BBC's first brewer. To his credit he tried to
start Long Beach's first (home)brew club.) Fucking GORKY'S -
Two locations, one just off The Strip fer g'ness sake. Gorky's.
Damn I miss Gorky's... (One of my first dates with The
Commander involved a trip to The Chinese and thence...to
Gorky's. Stuffed cabbages and Imperial Stout. It was raining
that day. I knew I loved her right then.) City of Angels
brewpub (One of the very, very first, and in Santa Monica no
less.) Barney's Beanery has had a list of 100+ beers for
forever. The former Ein Steins (Now Cattleman's Meat Market
complete with bull simulator thing.) Dave, a great brewer,
still brews there, but he has been relegated to Light, Bud, and
Amber. Naja's in RB has been there for decades. House of Brews
in HB with the best pub brewer it's been my pleasure to meet,
Bill Kimbrell (now at Mudshark). Speaking of great pub brewers,
anyone know where Bennett Ponder ended up? Father's Office was
one of the first taphouses in the country to specialize in craft
beers period. I'm aware of no bottle shop the equal of Hi Times
Cellars in Costa Mesa.
Etc.
LA not a beer town? I dunno...LA is a thousand square miles of
bedroom communities... Beer Culture like Oregon, or...No. But
if you're not finding the goodbeer spots, you're not looking.
Not willing to drive for an hour? Then, yeah, you'll be
embittered. There's plenty of beer history here. Has The Scene
sorted itself out? Sure. Can LA support a Tugboat? Nope.
Thank goodness...
> Sure, there are plenty of good beers available
> here, and there are pubs in the greater LA area that I
> would hold up against any pub from any other city in the
> U.S. (Father's Office in Santa Monica, Lucky Baldwin's in
> Pasadena, Cafe Boogaloo in Hermosa Beach).
I'm going to go ahead and add Naja's to forth place. Used to
suck hard, suck often, and was just not worth the time. Jason
has transformed this place.
> Hell, LA doesn't even come close to San
> Diego in terms of a beer culture. And so, there's not the
> built-in demand here like in other cities.
Er...disagree. San Diego has some truly great brewpubs and
beery venues. But fundamentally different? I would say no. If
you think LA is spread out, you haven't spent much time in San
Diego.
IMO, like LA, San Diego means "SD County". The Culture there
might edge out LA (Alesmith, Stone), but we have Craftsman.
Wide gulf 'tween LA and SD? Don't see it. I think you're
fixated on Pizza Port. Which is not a huge mistake...
> But as I mentioned earlier, you need to get outside of LA
> itself, and you'll start finding plenty of brewpubs. Some
> are chains - there are some Gordon Biersches and Rock
> Bottoms around, and there are plenty of BJ's pubs and
> restaurants (not all brew on premisis). But there are
> plenty of locals. Almost every city in the South Bay has at
> least one (Manhattan,
Sucks.
> Redondo,
Sucks.
> Torrance,
Good.
> plus one in San Pedro,
Good.
> Long Beach
> has one of the better ones in the area, Belmont Brewing Co.
Good.
> There's one in Pasadena,
You neglect Crown City, one of the oldest brewpubs in CA.
LA has plenty of beery opportunity. Beery Culture? You need a
designated driver.
Welcome to LA where you can pretty much have what you want.
Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA
Scott Kaczorowski
news:1127682093.8...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Thanks for the response.
>
> There are some great tap houses (Fathers Office, Library
> Alehouse,
Library Alehouse: Meh. Truly a meh. Safe choices on tap.
They're always out of Mendicino Hemp. Who cares?
> Four Points Sheraton LAX for bottles),
That's a good one. But it will cost you $10 to park.
> but Im
> definately missing the local craft beer culture here in Los
> Angeles.
You're not willing to spend gasoline? Where do you think you
are?
;-)
> I get thta real estate is expensive, but its
> stange that both Westwood Brewing and Manhattan Beach
> Brewery are both in very high rent districts,
How much time have you spent in Westwood? Did you not see
the boarded-up store fronts?
> Heck, every Brewski's survived for a long time,
> and its wasnt that good!
Well, it wasn't bad, was it?
So, lemme get this straight: Hermosa Beach qualifies as
"LA" for you? What are you whining about again?
Steve Jackson
news:Xns96DD5C31BEA...@64.0.17.11...
>> There are plenty of brewpubs in the LA area.
>
> It depends on one's definition of "LA".
True. Mean it to be more expansive by including "area."
>
>> LA itself doesn't have much in the way of brewpubs.
>
> "LA itself" is quite not very much bigly.
In English?
> "LA" really means "LA
> County" 'round here. Or so it seems to me.
In that case, I meant what's within the borders of the actual city of Los
Angeles. I tend to agree that "LA" is something more expansive in general,
especially when speaking to people not from here. To locals, I'd say Santa
Monica, Pasadena, etc. aren't really LA. Or maybe not. I don't know. It's
not like I've lived her 40-some years.
>
>> There's
>> nothing about permitting, etc. that makes it more onerous
>> to open a pub here than anywhere else.
>
> It's not s'pensive in Po'tland? ANYWHERE else? How many
> brewpubs does Honolulu have?
No, it's not so expensive in Portland, in general (I'm sure some places like
Full Sail paid a pretty penny for their spots). But, in general, New York is
about the only place that's going to rival California for real estate
prices. And, yeah, San Francisco will typically be worse than LA in that
regard.
>
>> But the bigger reason, I'd say, is that LA is not really a
>> beer town.
<snip long list of places come and gone>
> LA not a beer town? I dunno...LA is a thousand square miles of
> bedroom communities... Beer Culture like Oregon, or...No.
To me a "good beer town" is not about sheer volume of places. Yeah, in a
place this huge (geographically and popuplation), you're going to find a
lot. But good beer does not pervade here. Even accounting for the sprawl,
you have to work harder to find good beer here than a lot of cities. You
have to work less than a lot of cities too. Aside from the fact that Sierra
is pretty much everywhere around here, you don't have circumstances where
your odds are pretty good of walking into any random place and finding at
least some good beer (Guinness does not count; AFAIC, it's gotten to the
point where it's almost black Bud - yes I exaggerate a bit), unlike not only
the PNW, but places like Denver, Chicago, SF, etc.
> But
> if you're not finding the goodbeer spots, you're not looking.
> Not willing to drive for an hour? Then, yeah, you'll be
> embittered.
If you're not willing to drive for an hour for anything in this town, you'll
frequently find yourself in that mood.
>> Sure, there are plenty of good beers available
>> here, and there are pubs in the greater LA area that I
>> would hold up against any pub from any other city in the
>> U.S. (Father's Office in Santa Monica, Lucky Baldwin's in
>> Pasadena, Cafe Boogaloo in Hermosa Beach).
>
> I'm going to go ahead and add Naja's to forth place. Used to
> suck hard, suck often, and was just not worth the time. Jason
> has transformed this place.
Yeah, it deserves calling out. Easy to forget that one because it's really
only recently come back as a place worth going.
>> Hell, LA doesn't even come close to San
>> Diego in terms of a beer culture. And so, there's not the
>> built-in demand here like in other cities.
>
> Er...disagree. San Diego has some truly great brewpubs and
> beery venues. But fundamentally different? I would say no. If
> you think LA is spread out, you haven't spent much time in San
> Diego.
Enough to know it's from the same bird as far as sprawl goes.
>
> IMO, like LA, San Diego means "SD County". The Culture there
> might edge out LA (Alesmith, Stone), but we have Craftsman.
> Wide gulf 'tween LA and SD? Don't see it. I think you're
> fixated on Pizza Port. Which is not a huge mistake...
Pizza Port, Oggi's, the aforementioned Stone and Alesmith. Just counting
breweries, not brewpubs, LA County has only two: Craftsman and Angel City.
San Diego County has Stone, Alesmith, Port, Karl Strauss, Ballast Point and
probably a couple others I'm forgetting (looking up, I see Alpine and Green
Flash, too, and I believe Oggi's are starting a non-pub brewery and
distribtuion operation along the lines of Port as well).
LA catches up a bit if you want to include Orange County in the talley.
>> Almost every city in the South Bay has at
>> least one (Manhattan,
>
> Sucks.
>
>> Redondo,
>
> Sucks.
Didn't say they were all good. Just that they're there. (And I agree with
your verdict on both.)
>
>> Torrance,
>
> Good.
>
>> plus one in San Pedro,
>
> Good.
I need to revisit. I was not impressed by what I sampled there that one time
we dropped in.
>
>> Long Beach
>> has one of the better ones in the area, Belmont Brewing Co.
>
> Good.
>
>> There's one in Pasadena,
>
> You neglect Crown City, one of the oldest brewpubs in CA.
That's what I was thinking of. I think. There's that and the Gordon Biersch,
at any rate.
>
> LA has plenty of beery opportunity. Beery Culture? You need a
> designated driver.
>
> Welcome to LA where you can pretty much have what you want.
I want multiple choices for good beer in walking distance. Oh, wait, I have
that now.
-Steve
randa...@comcast.net
the space between Santa Monica and LAX , west of the 405 freeway (then
its called South Bay south of LAX)...
so the choices are Westwood brewing or BJ's (and BJ's isnt on-site),
and Westwood brewing isnt truely westisde either, but that depends who
you talk to.
Im not denying that there are some breweries in Los Angeles, but just a
major void on the space between Santa Monica, LAX and the 405
freeway..thats a lot of space not to have on-site brewing! There is a
total void in Santa Monica, Venice, Marina Del Rey, Brentwood..all
'walking' communities, that do not have any local brew! why?
I was interested in hearing from anyone thats tried to open a brewery
in Los Angeles, or especially the westside area, and hear their
experiences.
For how large Los Angeles is, it really doesnt have the quantity or
quality local brew.
Scott Kaczorowski
> "Scott Kaczorowski" <myini...@xb-70.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns96DD5C31BEA...@64.0.17.11...
>
>>> LA itself doesn't have much in the way of brewpubs.
>>
>> "LA itself" is quite not very much bigly.
>
> In English?
LA City itself is not very big, geography-wise. Square-mile-
wise, I dunno as you got that weirdo Harbor Corridor noodly
appendage thing.
>> "LA" really means "LA
>> County" 'round here. Or so it seems to me.
>
> In that case, I meant what's within the borders of the
> actual city of Los Angeles.
What is that? Bonaventure and...What?
LAX: K. Strauss, Redondo/Manhattan Beach, G. Biersch.
> I tend to agree that "LA" is
> something more expansive in general,
Yes.
> especially when
> speaking to people not from here. To locals, I'd say Santa
> Monica, Pasadena, etc. aren't really LA.
Heh! The Commander and I are both from Santa Monica (born,
raised). I once said to Her: "I think of myself as an
Angeleno." Her response: "No you're not!" Oy. Crap.
She's right. As always.
> Or maybe not. I
> don't know. It's not like I've lived her 40-some years.
<bah>
<flame>
Her? Who is she? Can I see her naked?
</spelling>
</heh>
Meh. I'd argue geography/common usage with you, but you're
an invader and should be bused to Phoenix (or, better, Dallas
or, even better yet, Tulsa) on sight so I care not what you
think.
> To me a "good beer town" is not about sheer volume of
> places. Yeah, in a place this huge (geographically and
> popuplation), you're going to find a lot. But good beer
> does not pervade here. Even accounting for the sprawl, you
> have to work harder to find good beer here than a lot of
> cities.
I can walk to the Pilsner Room...only if I'm within walking
distance of same by definition. Ever try to park 'round
there? I have. Consequently I've never been to the Pilsner
Room. I could also walk to the Baghdad and...??? What's
rent in that area? If I'm in Gresham...I can walk, maybe, to
the McMen's there. Bah.
If your point is "If I live close to a good beer place then I
can go there" then duh.
We lived for many years within 20 minute's walk from the BBC
and EJ Malloy's. I miss living there, I really do. But
driving for 10 minutes or an hour is the same thing as far as
I'm concerned.
>> I'm going to go ahead and add Naja's to forth place. Used
>> to suck hard, suck often, and was just not worth the time.
>> Jason has transformed this place.
>
> Yeah, it deserves calling out. Easy to forget that one
> because it's really only recently come back as a place
> worth going.
What do I win? Redondo Beach is part of LA? Huh. Fancy
that. Where do the Los Angeles Angels play again? I think
the Los Angeles Rams played there for a while...
I would say Redondo Beach is not LA, but "LA" is more of a
concept than a city. Not willing to drive? Well, there's
the Red Lion Inn in Echo Park with fabulous German food/beer
(oh, wait, that's not in LA city) and you have to admit that
the G Biersch in Pasadena is a Good Place and...
>> IMO, like LA, San Diego means "SD County". The Culture
>> there might edge out LA (Alesmith, Stone), but we have
>> Craftsman. Wide gulf 'tween LA and SD? Don't see it. I
>> think you're fixated on Pizza Port. Which is not a huge
>> mistake...
>
> Pizza Port, Oggi's, the aforementioned Stone and Alesmith.
> Just counting breweries, not brewpubs, LA County has only
> two: Craftsman and Angel City.
And the latter sucks hard and often. Strike Angel City. I
don't need 'em. Pint [sic] to you.
> San Diego County has Stone,
> Alesmith, Port, Karl Strauss, Ballast Point
Ooh, I forgot about BP. A fine Porter they make.
> and probably a
> couple others I'm forgetting (looking up, I see Alpine and
> Green Flash, too,
Alpine Village (California Brewing Co.) and Angel City appear
to be more or less the same thing at this point. A shame.
The very nice (though somewhat over-sweet) Dunkel that CBC
made not long ago appears to be...long gone.
> and I believe Oggi's are starting a
> non-pub brewery and distribtuion operation along the lines
> of Port as well).
PP distributes? I've not seen it. I want to see it. Where
can I see, er drink, it?
> LA catches up a bit if you want to include Orange County in
> the talley.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!
Fuck Orange County. The FUCKING OC FUCKING TV bullfucking
shit would have me believe that Westminster and Stanton and
Garbage Grove and Fucktain Valley and...all the other
shitholes in orange county do not exist.
Fuck orange county. Half of it is a fucking shithole, but
they want you to believe it's all pretty.
How do you, Steve, feel about south (oc) county? Did it
suck? Were you happy when your lease was up?
>>> Almost every city in the South Bay has at
>>> least one (Manhattan,
>>
>> Sucks.
>>
>>> Redondo,
>>
>> Sucks.
>
> Didn't say they were all good. Just that they're there.
> (And I agree with your verdict on both.)
Hee hee! LA-ish. What do I win? Can I see her naked?
>>> Torrance,
>>
>> Good.
The Red Car is worth visiting.
>>> plus one in San Pedro,
>>
>> Good.
>
> I need to revisit. I was not impressed by what I sampled
> there that one time we dropped in.
Good != Great.
And yet...you liked the area in general, no? Nice view,
Vincent Thomas, Maritime Museum, Lane Victory,
Fisherman's...yes? Spend an ENTIRE day - tell me that sucks.
Tell me.
> I want multiple choices for good beer in walking distance.
> Oh, wait, I have that now.
Heh! Yes you do.
Snott "Homer" Spazorowski
The Beach that is Long, CA
"He's nice." -- Ashley
Scott Kaczorowski
news:1127801960.4...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> I was interested in hearing from anyone thats tried to open
> a brewery in Los Angeles,
Why not call/visit the breweries?
> or especially the westside area,
> and hear their experiences.
> For how large Los Angeles is, it really doesnt have the
> quantity or quality local brew.
Not sure what you're after. You admit that LA is a nebulous
concept that cooks out to be a huge area, but you snivel about
Quantity and Quality? You're simply not looking. You want
someone to bring you growlers? Or...what? Maybe you should
consider moving back to wherever the quantity and quality are
better.
notbob
You're never going to see the kind of brewpub concentrations you find
in OR or WA for the simple reason, we have sunshine! Why do you think
all those people drink so much beer? Two reasons: 1) very restrictive
liquor laws allowing only beer bars and 2) all that overcast weather
is depressing as Hell. As a native CA boy, I was almost a teetotaler
when I first moved to Salem OR. But, by time I moved back to CA a few
years later I was a bona fide sot. And this was the pre-microbrewery
70's when smuggled Coors was the most coveted beer around.
As for finding brewpubs in the LA area, you're just not looking. Do a
Google for "california brewpubs".
nb
Joel
>"Steve Jackson" <stv.j...@verizon.net.no.spam> wrote:
>> To me a "good beer town" is not about sheer volume of
>> places. Yeah, in a place this huge (geographically and
>> popuplation), you're going to find a lot. But good beer
>> does not pervade here. Even accounting for the sprawl, you
>> have to work harder to find good beer here than a lot of
>> cities.
>
>I can walk to the Pilsner Room...only if I'm within walking
>distance of same by definition. Ever try to park 'round
>there? I have. Consequently I've never been to the Pilsner
>Room.
Pish and tosh. I've both parked near the Pilsner Room [*]
and taken the free-zone bus there. That's a bad example of
inaccessibility. And a scenic place to sit and have a few
beers. (Right, Jeff?)
>I could also walk to the Baghdad and...??? What's
>rent in that area? If I'm in Gresham...I can walk, maybe, to
>the McMen's there. Bah.
I did manage to take a bus to some other PR0TLAND
place-- that place with a photo of Beercommie's dog--
but otherwise, yeah, things are spread out even there.
--
Joel Plutchak "If you got the grits, serve 'em!" - Stanley Crouch
plutchak at [...]
Scott Kaczorowski
@badger.ncsa.uiuc.edu:
> Scott Kaczorowski <myini...@xb-70.com> wrote:
>>"Steve Jackson" <stv.j...@verizon.net.no.spam> wrote:
>>> To me a "good beer town" is not about sheer volume of
>>> places. Yeah, in a place this huge (geographically and
>>> popuplation), you're going to find a lot. But good beer
>>> does not pervade here. Even accounting for the sprawl, you
>>> have to work harder to find good beer here than a lot of
>>> cities.
>>
>>I can walk to the Pilsner Room...only if I'm within walking
>>distance of same by definition. Ever try to park 'round
>>there? I have. Consequently I've never been to the Pilsner
>>Room.
>
> Pish and tosh. I've both parked near the Pilsner Room [*]
Frick and frack.
And I've parked near the Baghdad. Yes, it's possible to park
'round there. I'm guessing that people can actually visit the
Pilsner Room. Just a guess - else it would not exist.
> That's a bad example of inaccessibility.
You may be able to one-up me, but it was an example that came to
mind that others might be familiar with.
>>I could also walk to the Baghdad and...??? What's
>>rent in that area? If I'm in Gresham...I can walk, maybe, to
>>the McMen's there. Bah.
>
> I did manage to take a bus to some other PR0TLAND
> place-- that place with a photo of Beercommie's dog--
> but otherwise, yeah, things are spread out even there.
Lucky Lab. Bridgeport. Alameda. Edgefield.
Yes, spread out, parking is not a free multi-story structure
half a block away in all cases. That's all I meant.
Steve Jackson
> LA City itself is not very big, geography-wise.
Do they not teach geography here? LA is huge, geography-wise, at least as
far as American cities go.
> Square-mile-
> wise, I dunno as you got that weirdo Harbor Corridor noodly
> appendage thing.
Plus the whole Valley, except Burbank and Glendale (and a couple other small
burgs).
From a list of largest cities in the U.S. -
http://www.city-data.com/top8.html - LA ranks 14th, behind Jacksonville,
Oklahoma City, Houston, phoenix an Nashville (plus a lot of Alaskan cities
that have ginormous geographical areas for some reason).
>> In that case, I meant what's within the borders of the
>> actual city of Los Angeles.
>
> What is that? Bonaventure and...What?
Brewpubs within the borders? Bonaventure and Westwood. Plus that thing we
saw across from the Japanese museum, if indeed that's a brewpub.
>
> LAX: K. Strauss, Redondo/Manhattan Beach, G. Biersch.
I don't count those for two reasons: Not open to the general public (only
ticketed passengers), and they don't brew anything at the airport.
>> I tend to agree that "LA" is
>> something more expansive in general,
>
> Yes.
>
>> especially when
>> speaking to people not from here. To locals, I'd say Santa
>> Monica, Pasadena, etc. aren't really LA.
>
> Heh! The Commander and I are both from Santa Monica (born,
> raised). I once said to Her: "I think of myself as an
> Angeleno." Her response: "No you're not!" Oy. Crap.
> She's right. As always.
Well, there's a difference when talking about a place with people who live
there and those who don't. To people not from here, I live in LA. To people
here, I live in Long Beach. Same rule applies when I talk about where I grew
up. In most cases, I'm "from" Minneapolis. Unless I encounter someone who is
from there or knows it well, in which case I grew up in Maple Grove.
>> To me a "good beer town" is not about sheer volume of
>> places. Yeah, in a place this huge (geographically and
>> popuplation), you're going to find a lot. But good beer
>> does not pervade here. Even accounting for the sprawl, you
>> have to work harder to find good beer here than a lot of
>> cities.
>
> I can walk to the Pilsner Room...only if I'm within walking
> distance of same by definition. Ever try to park 'round
> there? I have. Consequently I've never been to the Pilsner
> Room. I could also walk to the Baghdad and...??? What's
> rent in that area? If I'm in Gresham...I can walk, maybe, to
> the McMen's there. Bah.
I don't recall mentioning walking distance as a criterion (I mentioned it
later on in terms of where I live now). Walking distance is nice, but not
required. Thing is, in Portland, not only is the ratio of good beer joints
to population much, much higher than here, the availability of good beer at
non-beer-focused places is much better as well. And it tends to be more than
just Sierra (although, a depressing amount of it up there is Widmer "hefe").
> If your point is "If I live close to a good beer place then I
> can go there" then duh.
Nah, it's not necessarily that. I consider Chicago to be a pretty decent
beer town. The closest I ever lived to any good beer place was about 10
minutes, when I lived that far in walking distance to Goose Island
Wrigelyville. Most places - the Map Room, the Hop Leaf, the original Goose -
took me a half hour or more on public transit.
> We lived for many years within 20 minute's walk from the BBC
> and EJ Malloy's. I miss living there, I really do. But
> driving for 10 minutes or an hour is the same thing as far as
> I'm concerned.
For the most part. Although, getting home is far easier with the former if
you've drunk a bunch.
>
>>> I'm going to go ahead and add Naja's to forth place. Used
>>> to suck hard, suck often, and was just not worth the time.
>>> Jason has transformed this place.
>>
>> Yeah, it deserves calling out. Easy to forget that one
>> because it's really only recently come back as a place
>> worth going.
>
> What do I win? Redondo Beach is part of LA? Huh.
Original comment, which you left out:
>> Sure, there are plenty of good beers available
>> here, and there are pubs in the greater LA area that I
>> would hold up against any pub from any other city in the
>> U.S. (Father's Office in Santa Monica, Lucky Baldwin's in
>> Pasadena, Cafe Boogaloo in Hermosa Beach).
So, I agree that Naja's could be added. Last I checked, Redondo is still in
the LA area, and not in LA.
So, you really don't win anything. Maybe one of those cool cone-shaped hats.
> Fancy
> that. Where do the Los Angeles Angels play again? I think
> the Los Angeles Rams played there for a while...
At least they play in the same state, unlike a couple "New York" teams.
>> and I believe Oggi's are starting a
>> non-pub brewery and distribtuion operation along the lines
>> of Port as well).
>
> PP distributes? I've not seen it. I want to see it. Where
> can I see, er drink, it?
You and I drank some at Boogaloo once.
>
>> LA catches up a bit if you want to include Orange County in
>> the talley.
>
> Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!
>
> Fuck Orange County. The FUCKING OC FUCKING TV bullfucking
> shit would have me believe that Westminster and Stanton and
> Garbage Grove and Fucktain Valley and...all the other
> shitholes in orange county do not exist.
>
> Fuck orange county. Half of it is a fucking shithole, but
> they want you to believe it's all pretty.
>
> How do you, Steve, feel about south (oc) county? Did it
> suck? Were you happy when your lease was up?
Uh, yeah. I wasn't commenting on the merits of the place, just that the
number of LA-area breweries would go up if you were to count OC.
>>>> plus one in San Pedro,
>>>
>>> Good.
>>
>> I need to revisit. I was not impressed by what I sampled
>> there that one time we dropped in.
>
> Good != Great.
OK, let me clarify: I need to revisit to see if they serve something other
than the notably infected glass I drank.
But, yeah, somehow circling back to original points, there's plenty of good
beer to be had in LA and environs, and places that stack up to any,
anywhere. But it's not nearly as pervasive as many other cities.
-Steve
Scott Kaczorowski
> "Scott Kaczorowski" <myini...@xb-70.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns96DE62B0FC7...@64.0.17.11...
>
>> LA City itself is not very big, geography-wise.
>
> Do they not teach geography here? LA is huge,
> geography-wise, at least as far as American cities go.
Fuck your map. NO ONE 'round here thinks that Pacific
Palisades, Granada Hills (the Valley in general, for that
matter), or Wilmington is part of LA city. If I understand your
cretinous blatherings, Torrance must be part of LA city, no?
How 'bout Lancaster or Bakersfield?
>>> In that case, I meant what's within the borders of the
>>> actual city of Los Angeles.
>>
>> What is that? Bonaventure and...What?
>
> Brewpubs within the borders? Bonaventure and Westwood. Plus
> that thing we saw across from the Japanese museum, if
> indeed that's a brewpub.
It's not:
http://www.weilandbrewery.net/
Looks like it doesn't suck, though.
And I forgot about the Rosen Brewery...been meaning to hit that
up.
>> LAX: K. Strauss, Redondo/Manhattan Beach, G. Biersch.
>
> I don't count those for two reasons: Not open to the
> general public (only ticketed passengers), and they don't
> brew anything at the airport.
Not sure why I included those. My mistake. And I'm not sure
LAX qualifies for membership in "LA City". More like "El
Segundo City" or "Westchester City"...Like DFW shouldn't be
Grapevine International.
> Well, there's a difference when talking about a place with
> people who live there and those who don't. To people not
> from here, I live in LA. To people here, I live in Long
> Beach.
I've said the same.
> Same rule applies when I talk about where I grew up.
> In most cases, I'm "from" Minneapolis. Unless I encounter
> someone who is from there or knows it well, in which case I
> grew up in Maple Grove.
But the BBC is in Los Angeles?...One of the things I've always
tried to do here (?) is say that LA is whacking huge and if
you're not willing to drive, then call room service and order a
bottle of Frog's Leap Cab.
What I think I'm trying to say: Flying in for business, moving
here, visiting the mother-in-law and want to find good beer in
Los Angeles? Well, where in Los Angeles do you think you are?
Don't want to drive for an hour? If "no", or if "I don't
know" - you limit the pool of my recommendations by dozens of
places.
Think about where LAX is. Where would you recommend someone
there on business visit? Santa Monica? South Bay? Pacoima?
I picked up (I mean, well, you know...) Bitch Reistle one night
at the Sheraton (NOT the Four Seasons, which is where he should
have stayed) or somesuch on Century or Imperial or somesuch.
The pink boa disappeared within a second of his opening his
hotel room door - something for which I am thankful to this day.
But, what was he supposed to do? Overnighting on business, no
car...where do you take him? Lucky Baldwin's or Father's Office
or West Hollywood?
> I don't recall mentioning walking distance as a criterion
Oh heaven forfend! Weasels rip my flesh! Use me in all my
holes Valerie Perrine! I'm sorry, did I trangress the unwritten
law that says odd thoughts may not be committed by yours truly
and committed to ASCII?
Sorry.
Really.
Very, very sorry. From now on I will superglue myself to the
topic at hand. I will allow those I am responding to to drive
the conversation and my responses will henceforth be limited to
"yes" or "no."
You're fucking me, right?
> Thing is, in
> Portland, not only is the ratio of good beer joints to
> population much, much higher than here, the availability of
> good beer at non-beer-focused places is much better as
> well.
_Outdoor_ magazine recently listed Portland as one of the ten
best cities to live it [sic]. You know our history with The
Kid. We are considering. It would be good in a lot of ways:
Family (The Kid's), family (The Commander's), beautiful, nice
people, fabulous beer. In spite of Shite's best effort over
about six hours, I still consider Portland to be the best US
Beer City I've ever visited. I have a good friend in Eugene,
and he has trouble deciding where to go for a beer after work.
Oregon: Yar.
(Note to Portlanders and I-got-mine-but-none-for-you-
transplantBruels: Don't like californicators moving to your
state? Rewind to 20 years ago. And 15. And 10. And...And
now. We invented the "Welcome to <insert your state here>. Now
go home." bumper sticker. Don't like it? Don't set precedent.)
> And it tends to be more than just Sierra (although, a
> depressing amount of it up there is Widmer "hefe").
Capitalism in action. Don't be a commie.
How do you feel about Bud? Be honest.
>> We lived for many years within 20 minute's walk from the
>> BBC and EJ Malloy's. I miss living there, I really do.
>> But driving for 10 minutes or an hour is the same thing as
>> far as I'm concerned.
>
> For the most part. Although, getting home is far easier
> with the former if you've drunk a bunch.
Wow. What a lucid comment. Walking-hammered is better'n
driving-hammered. Dang. Never thought of that. How do you
feel about biking-hammered?
> So, you really don't win anything. Maybe one of those cool
> cone-shaped hats.
Rad. I got lots. They look good on me.
> Uh, yeah. I wasn't commenting on the merits of the place,
> just that the number of LA-area breweries would go up if
> you were to count OC.
You say that LA is FUCKING HUGE and then you say "if you want to
include Orange County..."
Huh?
Is southern California huge? LA includes San Diego, San Berdoo,
Riverside, Ventura, Malibu, Kern, and, what?, Needles? Santa
Barbara? SLO?
Yes you are not saying that, but you obviously have no handle on
Los Angeles.
>>>>> plus one in San Pedro,
>>>>
>>>> Good.
>>>
>>> I need to revisit. I was not impressed by what I sampled
>>> there that one time we dropped in.
>>
>> Good != Great.
>
> OK, let me clarify: I need to revisit to see if they serve
> something other than the notably infected glass I drank.
Oh shit that's right. Burnt Band-Aids. Yum.
To defend the SPBC, they make a decent beer more often than not,
and in a very character-laden area. If it's all about the beer,
then I go to Morry's to buy bottles. But...it's not always
about the beer, is it? Lane Victory to sit in an actual Bofors
40mm...and then SPBC... Is that bad? Makes a nice date - I've
done it.
> But, yeah, somehow circling back to original points,
> there's plenty of good beer to be had in LA and environs,
Didn't know that. Thanks.
Steve Jackson
> Fuck your map. NO ONE 'round here thinks that Pacific
> Palisades, Granada Hills (the Valley in general, for that
> matter),
So, that fuss about the Valley attempting to secede from LA a couple years
ago was just an exercise in political wanking, because they really aren't
part of LA to begin with? Right. Got it.
> or Wilmington is part of LA city.
If they're within the black line that Rand McNally draws, and their mayor is
named Antonio Villaraigosa, they're within the political boundries of LA the
city. Whether people name that as their home or not, I don't know nor care.
Most people when discussing their home with locals will refer to the
neighborhood well before the city.
And LA is the oddest city I've seen in regards to treating neighborhoods as
self-contained cities, to the point of making places like Sherman Oaks or
Hollywood the official post office designation. Only example I can think of
off the top of my head elsewhere is New York, and that's at the borough
level, from what I've seen.
> If I understand your
> cretinous blatherings, Torrance must be part of LA city, no?
You don't, and no.
>> Brewpubs within the borders? Bonaventure and Westwood. Plus
>> that thing we saw across from the Japanese museum, if
>> indeed that's a brewpub.
>
> It's not:
>
> http://www.weilandbrewery.net/
Oh, that's right. I seem to remember we determined it must be in the
location of a former brewery or somesuch.
> What I think I'm trying to say: Flying in for business, moving
> here, visiting the mother-in-law and want to find good beer in
> Los Angeles? Well, where in Los Angeles do you think you are?
> Don't want to drive for an hour? If "no", or if "I don't
> know" - you limit the pool of my recommendations by dozens of
> places.
I don't really know what you're trying to say. Your definition of LA is
about as well-defined as John Goodman's abs. It's the whole county at one
point. Then it's downtown and the immediate area. Then it's certain things
but not.
The OP asked why there aren't more brewpubs in LA. I tried to set the
distinction between whether he's just looking for more brewpubs within the
city limits (of which there are few) or the LA area in general, of which
there are a lot more. How this turned into Geography Hour, I have no idea
anymore.
> Think about where LAX is. Where would you recommend someone
> there on business visit? Santa Monica? South Bay? Pacoima?
>
> I picked up (I mean, well, you know...) Bitch Reistle one night
> at the Sheraton (NOT the Four Seasons, which is where he should
> have stayed) or somesuch on Century or Imperial or somesuch.
> The pink boa disappeared within a second of his opening his
> hotel room door - something for which I am thankful to this day.
>
> But, what was he supposed to do? Overnighting on business, no
> car...where do you take him? Lucky Baldwin's or Father's Office
> or West Hollywood?
Well, in general, if he's wearing a pink boa when I arrive at the door, I'm
taking him to West Hollywood. I mean, duh.
>> I don't recall mentioning walking distance as a criterion
>
> Oh heaven forfend! Weasels rip my flesh! Use me in all my
> holes Valerie Perrine! I'm sorry, did I trangress the unwritten
> law that says odd thoughts may not be committed by yours truly
> and committed to ASCII?
Well, if you're going to try to poke holes in someone's point, it's
generally more effective if you poke holes in a point they actually made.
> You're fucking me, right?
Only if you buy me a nice dinner first.
>> And it tends to be more than just Sierra (although, a
>> depressing amount of it up there is Widmer "hefe").
>
> Capitalism in action. Don't be a commie.
>
> How do you feel about Bud? Be honest.
Dull as dirt, makes assloads of money for its owners. So?
>
>>> We lived for many years within 20 minute's walk from the
>>> BBC and EJ Malloy's. I miss living there, I really do.
>>> But driving for 10 minutes or an hour is the same thing as
>>> far as I'm concerned.
>>
>> For the most part. Although, getting home is far easier
>> with the former if you've drunk a bunch.
>
> Wow. What a lucid comment. Walking-hammered is better'n
> driving-hammered. Dang. Never thought of that. How do you
> feel about biking-hammered?
I need to talk to someone about making sure you get laid more.
"But driving for 10 minutes or an hour is the same things as far as I'm
concerned."
As far as I'm concerned, it's not. It's not so different that'll it'll stop
me from doing it. But it's not the same.
> Yes you are not saying that, but you obviously have no handle on
> Los Angeles.
Back at ya. Unless it is the whole county, plus just limited neighborhoods
within the city limits.
>> OK, let me clarify: I need to revisit to see if they serve
>> something other than the notably infected glass I drank.
>
> Oh shit that's right. Burnt Band-Aids. Yum.
>
> To defend the SPBC, they make a decent beer more often than not,
> and in a very character-laden area.
I loved the pub itself, and recall commenting on how pleasantly surprised I
was by both it and the neighborhood. And I do need to revisit. I like the
place enough that I want to find out that there is good beer there. I'd be
really disppointed if there weren't, because it would be a shame to cross
the place itself off the list because of that.
> If it's all about the beer,
> then I go to Morry's to buy bottles.
I'm not so sure I got there. Morry's is slipping in the last few months.
-Steve
randa...@comcast.net
Angeles, settle down.
Relax, drink a beer, dude. There's always one of you on every
newsgroup, youre not special...Im sure its the only way you get
attention.
Lew Bryson
We're lucky, we've got three or four of them.
But that's okay, we've always got one of you "relax, drink a beer" guys
around to say something predictable to them.
--
Lew Bryson
"As for talking shit in this NG, Lew, you're the undisputed king, and
that's no SHITE." -- Bob Skilnik, 1/31/02
Scott Kaczorowski
> And LA is the oddest city I've seen in regards to treating
> neighborhoods as self-contained cities, to the point of
> making places like Sherman Oaks or Hollywood the official
> post office designation.
Which is why I think don't think of LA in your contrived Rand
McNally sense. I think most locals would agree. And, yes, The
Walley did try to secede because, wait for it!...they're not
really part of Los Angeles. They don't think they are. We
don't think they are. Draw your lines. Go dude go. Draw draw
draw. Reseda: Part of La City. Knock on doors and ask. Draw.
Knock. Draw.
Sure we should be discussing why Rochefort 8 is better'n the 10.
But, well, for those wondering whatthefuck!? at home:
http://www.laalmanac.com/LA/lamap2.htm
>>> Brewpubs within the borders? Bonaventure and Westwood.
>>> Plus that thing we saw across from the Japanese museum,
>>> if indeed that's a brewpub.
>>
>> It's not:
>>
>> http://www.weilandbrewery.net/
>
> Oh, that's right. I seem to remember we determined it must
> be in the location of a former brewery or somesuch.
They apparently have beers contract-brewed by Firestone.
(Firestone makes some damn fine beers. We buy the Porter by the
case in Buellton.) Pubcrawler has nice things to say about
Weiland - might be worth a visit.
> How this turned into Geography Hour, I have no
> idea anymore.
I'm just angry at pretty much everything.
>> But, what was [Bruce] supposed to do? Overnighting on
>> business, no car...where do you take him? Lucky Baldwin's
>> or Father's Office or West Hollywood?
>
> Well, in general, if he's wearing a pink boa when I arrive
> at the door, I'm taking him to West Hollywood. I mean, duh.
:-)
We went to Library Alehouse and Father's Office. A re-creation
of the Jackson Tour oh-so-many years ago. And The Bruce did
give me massive amounts of shit for giving a homeless guy a buck
and also for refusing to cross against the red. So that was
good, too.
> I need to talk to someone about making sure you get laid
> more.
I agree wholeheartedly. You know Her name. You have all the
relevant phone numbers. Make it so. I'll buy the flowers and
the Porter, you make the pitch.
> "But driving for 10 minutes or an hour is the same things
> as far as I'm concerned."
>
> As far as I'm concerned, it's not. It's not so different
> that'll it'll stop me from doing it. But it's not the same.
On a Tuesday night, I guess my claim falls to the ground. 20x2
to the BBC or 60x2 to the RBC. But the point is driving.
Randall wants to know why there aren't more brewpubs in LA. I
want to know what he means by "LA". You've told me. You're an
idiot. He hasn't told me. So I blather.
I simply feel that "LA" is a nebulous concept and I distinguish
between what I think of as LA City and the LA Area. The former
(?) Country Club Brewing in Northridge is in LA City apparently.
But The Red Car in Torrance is in the LA Area (and a vastly more
worthy destination). There's a fabulous BJ's in Brea. LA? Not
LA? What's your definition of LA again?
You see how it gets fuzzy quick? Sylmar is within your Rand
McNally definition. Los Angeles City - yeah, sure. Sylmar has
soooo much in common with Exposition Park and MacArthur Park and
Chavez Ravine and the Bowl and the Miracle Mile and Los Feliz
and the Beverly Center and Boyle Heights (we MUST haul your
repugnant hide to the Watts Towers and El Mercado sometime) and
Holmby Hills and...
>> To defend the SPBC, they make a decent beer more often
>> than not, and in a very character-laden area.
>
> I loved the pub itself, and recall commenting on how
> pleasantly surprised I was by both it and the neighborhood.
I agree, it's a bit of gem down there.
Er, I mean, that part of San Pedro is worth visiting. And if
the SPBC proves unsatisfactory there's always the Whale and Ale
(Worthy of your attention at least once if only because they
sponsor the free Shakespeare in the Park at Point Fermin. Yes.
They do a good thing. Buy a beer from them.) which is a
reasonable facsimile of a soCal intrepretation of a British pub.
> And I do need to revisit. I like the place enough that I
> want to find out that there is good beer there. I'd be
> really disppointed if there weren't, because it would be a
> shame to cross the place itself off the list because of
> that.
Oh by the way, we can add another to your Rand McNally-defined
list: San Pedro Brewing Company is in LA CITY, nice 'n' proper.
Hell, Villaraigosa lives there (Or he did up until very recently
when he moved in to the Mansion - something I would have done an
hour after I was elected but then I probably wouldn't have been
elected on my More Brewpubs for LA platform. Hann lived in
Pedro the whole time he was mayor, I believe.) If Pedro is LA,
then so is Torrance. And Hermosa, and Santa Monica...
Er...am I off topic?
One of the things I like about the brewpub hobby is that it
often leads us to neighborhoods we wouldn't otherwise visit.
The Alameda brewpub in Portland (Or is it in Alameda?) is a good
example. Never would have thought to go there but for the
brewpub. Fabulous little neighborhood - we spent an hour
walking around after lunch even though we had a plane to catch.
SPBC, and the Lane Victory, Maritime Museum, views of the harbor
and the Vincent Thomas bridge, the tide pools...Hell, the drive
there is fun no matter how you do it. A nice way to spend a
day, I think. Take a date to the tide pools and fondle sea
hares. Is that a test or what? You'll know right away if
you'll get lucky, but at least you'll get to fondle sea hares...
>> If it's all about the beer,
>> then I go to Morry's to buy bottles.
>
> I'm not so sure I got there. Morry's is slipping in the
> last few months.
Yeah, not sure what they are trying to achieve. Seemed like
what it was before worked for 20 years... Glass-top cases with
fancy...I don't even know. Corkscrews? Whatever. Pretty
versions of something I already have. That new tasting room,
though...I wish my living room was that nice.
Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA
-- Drink any good beer lately?
-- The three-sentence posters support me in email.
-- My mommy is prettier'n your mommy.
Scott Kaczorowski
news:1127976664.3...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Relax, drink a beer, dude.
I hate beer.
> There's always one of you on
> every newsgroup,
You're mistaken. There's an *anonymous* bully on most
froups. I am NOT anonymous. You think I made my name up?
You can't find me on the 'net/web...you're not looking.
> youre not special
I'm some dumbass with a keyboard.
You?
>...Im sure its the only
> way you get attention.
Yup. Spot on. I can't tell the difference between "Engles"
and "Engels".
Again I ask: You?
Joel
> -- The three-sentence posters support me in email.
They do? I don't think so. You're full of it.
--
Joel Plutchak
"I never let anything as tenuous as moral standards get in the way of
drinking beer." - Jon Binkley in rec.food.drink.beer
Lew Bryson
news:dhh75q$iti$1...@badger.ncsa.uiuc.edu...
> Scott Kaczorowski <myini...@xb-70.com> wrote:
>> -- The three-sentence posters support me in email.
>
> They do? I don't think so. You're full of it.
You know, I keep meaning to ask... what is this "email" you guys keep
talking about?
--
Lew Bryson
Their clothes are weird, their music sucks and they drink
malternatives. And now you tell me they probably don't think Sierra
Nevada is cool? This is what the passage of years does to you: It
makes everyone around you more stupid. -- Michael Stewart 6/24/02
Steve Jackson
> Sure we should be discussing why Rochefort 8 is better'n the 10.
Is not.
Oh, wait, I think that the 8's better, too. Never mind.
> They apparently have beers contract-brewed by Firestone.
> (Firestone makes some damn fine beers. We buy the Porter by the
> case in Buellton.) Pubcrawler has nice things to say about
> Weiland - might be worth a visit.
Firestone sucketh not. And the place did look cool. But they blow, just a
bit, for not opening till 5 on Saturdays.
> We went to Library Alehouse and Father's Office. A re-creation
> of the Jackson Tour oh-so-many years ago. And The Bruce did
> give me massive amounts of shit for giving a homeless guy a buck
> and also for refusing to cross against the red. So that was
> good, too.
That's one of the first things that told me I've been assimilated. I want to
walk anywhere at home, I have to cross at lights. Living in Chicago, lights
meant nothing. It was up to you and the taxi to win the battle of who
crosses first. We didn't pay attention to intersections. Things were only
slightly less civilized other places I've lived.
Then I moved to downtown Long Beach. I now wait for the light. I may as well
put my balls in a jar and leave them on the shelf.
> On a Tuesday night, I guess my claim falls to the ground. 20x2
> to the BBC or 60x2 to the RBC. But the point is driving.
> Randall wants to know why there aren't more brewpubs in LA. I
> want to know what he means by "LA". You've told me. You're an
> idiot. He hasn't told me. So I blather.
Oddly enough, that's what I was trying to get from the OP too.
> I simply feel that "LA" is a nebulous concept
On that, I totally agree. It's about context. And locally, the name of the
burb or the neighborhood works much better, in pretty much every case I
could think of.
> and I distinguish
> between what I think of as LA City and the LA Area. The former
> (?) Country Club Brewing in Northridge is in LA City apparently.
> But The Red Car in Torrance is in the LA Area (and a vastly more
> worthy destination). There's a fabulous BJ's in Brea. LA? Not
> LA? What's your definition of LA again?
It depends.
But Brea? I thought you ruled out Orange County altogether while you went
apoplectic about what an awful place it is.
(Brea is the original BJ's, right? Or at least their main brewing operation?
I've actually not been to that one. "Fabulous" and BJ's are words I've never
put together in the same sentence. Well, at least not in a beer context.)
> Er, I mean, that part of San Pedro is worth visiting.
Good qualifyer. There's plenty of San Pedro that's, well, not.
> Oh by the way, we can add another to your Rand McNally-defined
> list: San Pedro Brewing Company is in LA CITY, nice 'n' proper.
> Hell, Villaraigosa lives there (Or he did up until very recently
> when he moved in to the Mansion - something I would have done an
> hour after I was elected but then I probably wouldn't have been
> elected on my More Brewpubs for LA platform. Hann lived in
> Pedro the whole time he was mayor, I believe.) If Pedro is LA,
> then so is Torrance. And Hermosa, and Santa Monica...
You of course realize the irony in that statement, when you just outlined
how the mayor of LA lives in an area that's apparently not LA.
This is why this is one fucked-up city in terms of its notion of itself.
It's more concept than place. Hey! LA is just like London! (There's
something that will never be said again in any other context.)
> One of the things I like about the brewpub hobby is that it
> often leads us to neighborhoods we wouldn't otherwise visit.
Point. I never would have discovered that part of San Pedro otherwise.
>> I'm not so sure I got there. Morry's is slipping in the
>> last few months.
>
> Yeah, not sure what they are trying to achieve. Seemed like
> what it was before worked for 20 years... Glass-top cases with
> fancy...I don't even know. Corkscrews? Whatever. Pretty
> versions of something I already have. That new tasting room,
> though...I wish my living room was that nice.
Haven't seen the tasting room since it's opened. I've taken my shopping up
to the Wine Country now. At least the stock rotates. Morry's seems to have
had the same sad bottles there for months now, and the beer buyer (Kevin?)
seems to have dropped off the face of the earth. With what they're doing to
the beer end of things there, I don't blame him. But wine's probably their
bread and butter. It's just sad they can't find a way to make them coexist
well. The folks down in Costa Mesa, or even up in Signal Hill, have figured
out how to make it work quite nicely.
-Steve
Scott Kaczorowski
> "Scott Kaczorowski" <myini...@xb-70.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns96E0624D8A5...@64.0.17.11...
>
> That's one of the first things that told me I've been
> assimilated. I want to walk anywhere at home, I have to
> cross at lights. Living in Chicago, lights meant nothing.
> It was up to you and the taxi to win the battle of who
> crosses first. We didn't pay attention to intersections.
> Things were only slightly less civilized other places I've
> lived.
>
> Then I moved to downtown Long Beach. I now wait for the
> light. I may as well put my balls in a jar and leave them
> on the shelf.
Well, if I were you, I wouldn't do it for that reason, but I would do
it. If I were you.
>> On a Tuesday night, I guess my claim falls to the ground.
>> 20x2 to the BBC or 60x2 to the RBC. But the point is
>> driving. Randall wants to know why there aren't more
>> brewpubs in LA. I want to know what he means by "LA".
>> You've told me. You're an idiot. He hasn't told me. So
>> I blather.
>
> Oddly enough, that's what I was trying to get from the OP
> too.
Ya know...rereading...apparently Randall demands a brewpub on the
Westside. I guess we didn't plop one down where he needs it. Sorry
'bout that, Randall.
And then he wants to hear from those that have tried to open a brewpub
in...what?, LA? The "Westside"? alt.beer is where *I* would post if
I had a question like that...
>> I simply feel that "LA" is a nebulous concept
>
> On that, I totally agree.
>
> But Brea? I thought you ruled out Orange County altogether
> while you went apoplectic about what an awful place it is.
No, I was vomiting up my own excrement at the mere thought of what is
called South County 'round here. You may not have been vomitous, but
you could not wait until your lease was up. Sorry I didn't put a fine
point on that until just now.
Brea LA Area contrivance: I gotta go through Brea from Long Beach to
get to the LA County Fairgrounds.
> (Brea is the original BJ's, right? Or at least their main
> brewing operation? I've actually not been to that one.
Must remedy that.
> "Fabulous" and BJ's are words I've never put together in
> the same sentence. Well, at least not in a beer context.)
BJ's is a fabulous brewpub (chain, not all locations brew). They make
very good beer. Very good. Unfortunately, they dropped their gem-in-
the-rough when they closed the Seal Beach location. Most character,
most friendly, most neighborhoodly. Most shame. The rest are higly
yuppified but very much worth visiting IMO.
You snivel because you do not feel that their pizza (which is likewise
fabulous) is not truly Chicago-style as billed.
This makes you a pizza snob in addition to a car snob, a driving snob,
a beer snob, a County snob, a Sticke snob, and a music snob.
God I love that about you.
>> Oh by the way, we can add another to your Rand
>> McNally-defined list: San Pedro Brewing Company is in LA
>> CITY, nice 'n' proper. Hell, Villaraigosa lives there (Or
>> he did up until very recently when he moved in to the
>> Mansion - something I would have done an hour after I was
>> elected but then I probably wouldn't have been elected on
>> my More Brewpubs for LA platform. Hann lived in Pedro the
>> whole time he was mayor, I believe.) If Pedro is LA, then
>> so is Torrance. And Hermosa, and Santa Monica...
>
> You of course realize the irony in that statement, when you
> just outlined how the mayor of LA lives in an area that's
> apparently not LA.
San Pedro is within LA City by the Rand McNally (and therefore your)
definition. Not mine. Not LA City. Jump up and down. Speak German.
Rage. Rail. Whatever...
>> One of the things I like about the brewpub hobby is that
>> it often leads us to neighborhoods we wouldn't otherwise
>> visit.
>
> Point. I never would have discovered that part of San Pedro
> otherwise.
Well, you *did* drive...