Re: home brewed beer

[Jeßus]

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 16:07:45 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

<alt.beer.home-brewing & rec.food.drink.beer added in the vain hope
that it may resuscitate them>

>Jeßus wrote
>> Mead can be very simple to make - but not necessarily cheap -
>> depending on the honey used. The 30L one I racked today cost $150 in
>> Rainforest honey and $20 for the 2 packs of special mead yeast that I use.
>
>Yeah, thats a hell of a lot more than I ever spend on a batch of beer.

Indeed it is, but then my motives for home brewing isn't purely to
save money. I actually prefer my beer to almost all commercial beers.
My favourite commercial beer - from the bigger breweries at least -
has always been Coopers, so sediment has never been something that's
bothered me. As for the mead, well I just love the stuff and it's very
expensive to buy, assuming you can even find some to buy, that is.


<snip>

>I'll likely get a spirit still next. The mate of mine that I infected with
>the beer brewing bug has just got one and its worked out pretty well.
>
>Mostly scotch, I do spend a bit on commercial scotch currently.
>
>Unlikely that the 80 year old scotch will be viable to make myself tho.

I've been distilling for a couple of years now, at first with one of
those 'air' stills, but now mainly I use a pot still. I'm not really a
spirit drinker, but I do like apple cider brandy and other brandies.
I intend to lightly distill mead at some point, hoping to make a mead
liqueur. There is a Tasmanian company that makes one, and it's bloody
delicious, neat with ice. The vodka comes in handy for making vanilla
essence as well.

------
If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong? ? Steven Wright

[Jeßus]

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:15:50 -0800 (PST), BruceS
<bruc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Jan 23, 10:07 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jeßus wrote
>> > I just racked a batch of spiced mead this arvo.
>> > Started brewing mead last year and now it's my main drink (in winter, at least)...
>> > just love the stuff. It can blow your head off if you're not careful though :)
>
>I used to drink mead from a wine glass. Recently, I started drinking
>it from a beer glass. Wow.

:) I did similar actually. Started off using shot glasses, then mid-sized glasses, then full size glasses.
It's insidious stuff though, you need to keep an eye on your
consumption, it seems to sneak up to you in a way that beer and
spirits don't. That's my experience at least.


> FWIW, if you get into kegging, you can
>force carbonate mead very nicely. It's a lot nicer getting it from a
>tap than opening a champagne bottle each time. I only made a couple
>batches of still mead---everything else sparkling, including my best
>batch, which was meant to be still. Oops.

Never thought of kegging mead. I've been flip-flopping on the idea of
kegs. On the one hand they're convenient in many ways - OTOH bottles
are much more portable.

<snip>

>I wasn't very impressed with the expensive "mead" yeast I used on my
>last batch. It cost a lot more than champagne yeast, and didn't
>produce any better result. Even the dry champagne yeast gives good
>results with mead. I also tend to use less honey than many, like 10
>to 12 pounds per five gallons, vs. the 15 to 18 some prefer. With the
>lower honey content, and champagne yeast, you can get a completely
>fermented out (dry) mead, with none of the sticky sweetness so common
>in mead.

Most of my meads have used those wyeast mead yeasts - both dry and
sweet. For a 30L batch, that costs me AUD$20 just for the yeast. For
my first ever mead, I used bakers yeast. There was also an air leak in
the lid, and possibly some wild yeasts snuck in there as well... but
all I know is, that remains the best mead I've made yet :) As
mentioned before, my next batches will use champagne yeast, will be
interesting to see the results. I'm still experimenting with honeys
and yeast, but eventually I'll settle on one or two combinations. I'm
hoping the cheaper yeasts work best, for obvious reasons.

>> > This apple and pear season I plan to substitute the sugar for honey on
>> > a couple of batches, and make a hybrid cider/mead or perry/mead.
>> > Should be interesting.
>
>A friend made that a lot, called it "sizer", or something like that.
>I liked the result, but didn't try doing it myself. Good luck.

Thanks. I'm looking forward to doing this, the honey, apples and pears
will all come from the local area here.

>> I'll likely get a spirit still next. The mate of mine that I infected with
>> the beer brewing bug has just got one and its worked out pretty well.
>

>You can distill? Here (U.S.) it's legal for me to ferment up to 200
>gallons per year, but I can't distill any of it without an expensive
>and difficult-to-obtain license, or a "fuel" license which requires
>poisoning the result. Stupid law, but I follow it.

Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a
blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of course. Go into any home
brew shop here in Oz and you'll see stills, essences etc. openly for
sale. We are actually allowed to own and use a till for oil extracts
or water distillation... but NOT for alcohol production. Max.
allowable size is only 5L as well, although there is no trouble
purchasing much bigger stills.

[Jeßus]

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 16:19:28 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>My mate who I infected with the brewing bug likes
>something else local as well, forget which now.

Not Malt Shovel? I've tried their pale ale and lager extracts - but
they basically taste the same to me. My god they are MALTY... and
fairly expensive too. I'm in two minds whether I like them or not.
Sometimes I enjoy it, sometimes I don't.

Coulda also have been Brewcraft, but IIRC the brand name no longer
exists (was absorbed into another brand).

[BruceS]

On Jan 25, 3:22 pm, Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:15:50 -0800 (PST), BruceS
>

> <bruce...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 23, 10:07 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Jeßus wrote
> >> > I just racked a batch of spiced mead this arvo.
> >> > Started brewing mead last year and now it's my main drink (in winter, at least)...
> >> > just love the stuff. It can blow your head off if you're not careful though :)
>
> >I used to drink mead from a wine glass.  Recently, I started drinking
> >it from a beer glass.  Wow.
>
> :) I did similar actually. Started off using shot glasses, then mid-sized glasses, then full size glasses.
> It's insidious stuff though, you need to keep an eye on your
> consumption, it seems to sneak up to you in a way that beer and
> spirits don't. That's my experience at least.

Same here. I seem to go from not feeling it at all to feeling it a
lot, more so even than when I'm drinking neat whisk{e}y.

> > FWIW, if you get into kegging, you can
> >force carbonate mead very nicely.  It's a lot nicer getting it from a
> >tap than opening a champagne bottle each time.  I only made a couple
> >batches of still mead---everything else sparkling, including my best
> >batch, which was meant to be still.  Oops.
>
> Never thought of kegging mead. I've been flip-flopping on the idea of
> kegs. On the one hand they're convenient in many ways - OTOH bottles
> are much more portable.

Another consideration, that didn't occur to me until I emptied my
first keg, is knowing when you're low. With bottles, it's pretty easy
to see when you're down to a few bottles of brew. With a keg, about
the best you can do (AFAIK) is check its weight to get a rough feel of
how much is in there. A full keg is about 40 lbs (18kg) heavier than
an empty, which is very light. Drawing a glass for a friend, only to
have it start blowing CO2 halfway through, can disappoint.

> <snip>
>
> >I wasn't very impressed with the expensive "mead" yeast I used on my
> >last batch.  It cost a lot more than champagne yeast, and didn't
> >produce any better result.  Even the dry champagne yeast gives good
> >results with mead.  I also tend to use less honey than many, like 10
> >to 12 pounds per five gallons, vs. the 15 to 18 some prefer.  With the
> >lower honey content, and champagne yeast, you can get a completely
> >fermented out (dry) mead, with none of the sticky sweetness so common
> >in mead.
>
> Most of my meads have used those wyeast mead yeasts - both dry and
> sweet. For a 30L batch, that costs me AUD$20 just for the yeast. For
> my first ever mead, I used bakers yeast. There was also an air leak in
> the lid, and possibly some wild yeasts snuck in there as well... but
> all I know is, that remains the best mead I've made yet :) As
> mentioned before, my next batches will use champagne yeast, will be
> interesting to see the results. I'm still experimenting with honeys
> and yeast, but eventually I'll settle on one or two combinations. I'm
> hoping the cheaper yeasts work best, for obvious reasons.

I think they'll work fine, and I hope you find that as well. No need
to spend so much on yeast, though I'd opt for the champagne long
before the bakers'.

> >> > This apple and pear season I plan to substitute the sugar for honey on
> >> > a couple of batches, and make a hybrid cider/mead or perry/mead.
> >> > Should be interesting.
>
> >A friend made that a lot, called it "sizer", or something like that.
> >I liked the result, but didn't try doing it myself.  Good luck.
>
> Thanks. I'm looking forward to doing this, the honey, apples and pears
> will all come from the local area here.
>
> >> I'll likely get a spirit still next. The mate of mine that I infected with
> >> the beer brewing bug has just got one and its worked out pretty well.
>
> >You can distill?  Here (U.S.) it's legal for me to ferment up to 200
> >gallons per year, but I can't distill any of it without an expensive
> >and difficult-to-obtain license, or a "fuel" license which requires
> >poisoning the result.  Stupid law, but I follow it.
>
> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a
> blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of course. Go into any home
> brew shop here in Oz and you'll see stills, essences etc. openly for
> sale. We are actually allowed to own and use a till for oil extracts
> or water distillation... but NOT for alcohol production. Max.
> allowable size is only 5L as well, although there is no trouble
> purchasing much bigger stills.

I'm not sure how seriously they take it here, but I haven't seen any
distilling equipment at the brew shops, so that's probably a fair
indicator. Years ago I bought a book on building stills, but now I
can't even find it. I'm paranoid enough that I bought it with cash,
even though I had no intent to actually build a still. I like the
design with a vertical tube of marbles to improve efficiency.
Authorities here can sometimes be breathtakingly absurd in their
enforcement of laws related to recreational drugs. Colorado now
allows "medical" marijuana, with shops having "compassionate" doctors
ready to write nearly anyone a prescription, so I could more easily
(legally) grow and use pot than run a pot still.

[Rod Speed]

Jeßus wrote
> BruceS <bruc...@hotmail.com> wrote

>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jeßus wrote

>>>> I just racked a batch of spiced mead this arvo.
>>>> Started brewing mead last year and now it's my main drink (in
>>>> winter, at least)... just love the stuff. It can blow your head
>>>> off if you're not careful though :)

>> I used to drink mead from a wine glass. Recently,
>> I started drinking it from a beer glass. Wow.

> :) I did similar actually. Started off using shot glasses, then
> mid-sized glasses, then full size glasses. It's insidious stuff
> though, you need to keep an eye on your
> consumption, it seems to sneak up to you in a way that beer and
> spirits don't. That's my experience at least.

>> FWIW, if you get into kegging, you can
>> force carbonate mead very nicely. It's a lot nicer getting it from a
>> tap than opening a champagne bottle each time. I only made a couple
>> batches of still mead---everything else sparkling, including my best
>> batch, which was meant to be still. Oops.

> Never thought of kegging mead. I've been flip-flopping on the idea of kegs.

Yeah, I've considered them but so far have rejected them.

> On the one hand they're convenient in many ways

Yeah, the bottling is certainly by far the most labor intensive part of the whole operation.

Specially when you do 3 batches at a time like I do.

> - OTOH bottles are much more portable.

And a lot more convenient fridge wise too.

I havent even noticed any prosecutions for that either, not clear
if thats because no on is silly enough to do that or what.

> Go into any home brew shop here in Oz and
> you'll see stills, essences etc. openly for sale.

And plenty of local web sites flogging the stuff too.

[Rod Speed]

Jeßus wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jeßus wrote

> <alt.beer.home-brewing & rec.food.drink.beer
> added in the vain hope that it may resuscitate them>

>>> Mead can be very simple to make - but not necessarily cheap -
>>> depending on the honey used. The 30L one I racked today cost $150 in
>>> Rainforest honey and $20 for the 2 packs of special mead yeast that I use.

>> Yeah, thats a hell of a lot more than I ever spend on a batch of beer.

> Indeed it is, but then my motives for home brewing isn't purely to
> save money. I actually prefer my beer to almost all commercial beers.

Yeah, me too, and thats the reason I started brewing, a mate of mine's
home brew was at least as good as the commercial stuff and when he
told me that you didnt have to wash the stubbys that they were fine in
the dishwasher, and I tried them in mine and found he was right, I started
saving the commercial stubbys myself.

> My favourite commercial beer - from the bigger breweries
> at least - has always been Coopers, so sediment has never
> been something that's bothered me.

Yeah, I dont even bother to not pour out the very last from the stubby
anymore. I always drink from a proper glass now that I have stopped
drinking the commercial beers.

The only exception is the last stubby in a bottling run, I dont drink that sediment.

> As for the mead, well I just love the stuff and it's very expensive
> to buy, assuming you can even find some to buy, that is.

Yeah, I've never noticed it for sale. Havent looked for it tho.

Might try some just like I did with cider etc.

>> I'll likely get a spirit still next. The mate of mine that
>> I infected with the beer brewing bug has just got one
>> and its worked out pretty well.

>> Mostly scotch, I do spend a bit on commercial scotch currently.

>> Unlikely that the 80 year old scotch will be viable to make myself tho.

> I've been distilling for a couple of years now, at first with one of those 'air' stills,

Yeah, thats what the mate of mine has just got.

> but now mainly I use a pot still. I'm not really a spirit drinker,

I do it in bursts.

> but I do like apple cider brandy and other brandies.
> I intend to lightly distill mead at some point, hoping to
> make a mead liqueur. There is a Tasmanian company
> that makes one, and it's bloody delicious, neat with ice.

I drink my scotch neat with no ice and a drop of water, quite literally just a single drop.

I love the best single malts, hate the prices tho.

Dont expect I will ever make anything like that tho, hell of a lot of work and years quite literally too.

I really just want to replace the commercial blended scotches that arent cheap due to the duty system here.

[Rod Speed]

Jeßus wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>> My mate who I infected with the brewing bug likes
>> something else local as well, forget which now.

> Not Malt Shovel?

Nope one of the majors like your Cascade.

> I've tried their pale ale and lager extracts - but they basically
> taste the same to me. My god they are MALTY... and fairly
> expensive too. I'm in two minds whether I like them or not.
> Sometimes I enjoy it, sometimes I don't.

Havent tried any of theirs.

> Coulda also have been Brewcraft,

Nar, definitely one of the majors, either Tooheys or Cascade.

[Jonathan Wilson]

> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a
> blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of course. Go into any home

I have never understood why its legal to ferment alcohol for home
production (as long as you dont sell it without a license) yet its illegal
to distill alcohol without being a big high-volume commercial operation and
getting a hard-to-get license (which is why you dont see small-scale
distilling operations along the lines of the microbreweries that are
popping up)

If its because of tax, they could introduce new licenses for small shops
and use that as a way of enforcing tax regulations.

[Rod Speed]

Jonathan Wilson wrote:

>> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of
>> course. Go into any home

> I have never understood why its legal to ferment alcohol for home production (as long as you dont sell it without a
> license) yet its illegal to distill alcohol without being a big high-volume commercial operation and getting a
> hard-to-get license (which is why you dont see small-scale distilling operations along the lines of the microbreweries
> that are popping up)

You do actually, there are in fact a number of them.

> If its because of tax, they could introduce new licenses for small shops and use that as a way of enforcing tax
> regulations.

Not really feasible. Its essentially impossible to
reliably measure how much alcohol they have produced.

I agree that it should be legal, but for some odd
reason its only legal in NZ as far as I know.

Most likely its got something to do with what had to be
done to stamp out cheap gin in Hogarthian england all
those years ago when it became clear what the result
of cheap gin could be and the authoritys being too
stupid to have noticed that it works fine in NZ.

You see a similar thing with growing cannabis for
personal use, very few places have enough of a
clue to decriminalise it, let alone make it legal.

Even the obscene tax levels on spirits make no sense at all.

Why should those who prefer decent single malts have to pay a hell
of a lot more tax than those who prefer commercial wine instead ?

[Jeßus]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:25:48 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Jeßus wrote

>> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly
>> turn a blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of course.
>
>I havent even noticed any prosecutions for that either, not clear
>if thats because no on is silly enough to do that or what.

Probably the latter, and no real perceived benefit for any politician
to get on their high-horse and demand enforcement.

[Jeßus]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:06:43 -0800 (PST), BruceS
<bruc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Jan 25, 3:22 pm, Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:15:50 -0800 (PST), BruceS
>>
>> <bruce...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Jan 23, 10:07 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Jeßus wrote
>> >> > I just racked a batch of spiced mead this arvo.
>> >> > Started brewing mead last year and now it's my main drink (in winter, at least)...
>> >> > just love the stuff. It can blow your head off if you're not careful though :)
>>
>> >I used to drink mead from a wine glass.  Recently, I started drinking
>> >it from a beer glass.  Wow.
>>
>> :) I did similar actually. Started off using shot glasses, then mid-sized glasses, then full size glasses.
>> It's insidious stuff though, you need to keep an eye on your
>> consumption, it seems to sneak up to you in a way that beer and
>> spirits don't. That's my experience at least.
>
>Same here. I seem to go from not feeling it at all to feeling it a
>lot, more so even than when I'm drinking neat whisk{e}y.

Twice I've overdone it on the mead... having a quiet drink with a
mate... then a couple more come over and before you know it it's 11PM
and I've cleaned up a litre of mead. Then I wake up in front of the
wood heater, with the dog snuggled up to me :p

>Another consideration, that didn't occur to me until I emptied my
>first keg, is knowing when you're low. With bottles, it's pretty easy
>to see when you're down to a few bottles of brew. With a keg, about
>the best you can do (AFAIK) is check its weight to get a rough feel of
>how much is in there. A full keg is about 40 lbs (18kg) heavier than
>an empty, which is very light. Drawing a glass for a friend, only to
>have it start blowing CO2 halfway through, can disappoint.

I'd never thought of that problem, hmm.

>> Most of my meads have used those wyeast mead yeasts - both dry and
>> sweet. For a 30L batch, that costs me AUD$20 just for the yeast. For
>> my first ever mead, I used bakers yeast. There was also an air leak in
>> the lid, and possibly some wild yeasts snuck in there as well... but
>> all I know is, that remains the best mead I've made yet :) As
>> mentioned before, my next batches will use champagne yeast, will be
>> interesting to see the results. I'm still experimenting with honeys
>> and yeast, but eventually I'll settle on one or two combinations. I'm
>> hoping the cheaper yeasts work best, for obvious reasons.
>
>I think they'll work fine, and I hope you find that as well. No need
>to spend so much on yeast, though I'd opt for the champagne long
>before the bakers'.

As would I, normally. All I know is the very first 5L batch of mead is
still the best one I made, I used bakers yeast (followed the recipe to
the letter). Mind you, there was a leak around the airlock and wild
yeast may have gotten in. After only 2-3 months, the honey had
clarified completely, something I haven't achieved with any other
yeast. And it really does taste the best of all the batches I've done
so far <shrug>. But yeah, next batch of mead will be either champagne
or other wine yeast.

>> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a
>> blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of course. Go into any home
>> brew shop here in Oz and you'll see stills, essences etc. openly for
>> sale. We are actually allowed to own and use a till for oil extracts
>> or water distillation... but NOT for alcohol production. Max.
>> allowable size is only 5L as well, although there is no trouble
>> purchasing much bigger stills.
>
>I'm not sure how seriously they take it here, but I haven't seen any
>distilling equipment at the brew shops, so that's probably a fair
>indicator. Years ago I bought a book on building stills, but now I
>can't even find it. I'm paranoid enough that I bought it with cash,
>even though I had no intent to actually build a still. I like the
>design with a vertical tube of marbles to improve efficiency.
>Authorities here can sometimes be breathtakingly absurd in their
>enforcement of laws related to recreational drugs. Colorado now
>allows "medical" marijuana, with shops having "compassionate" doctors
>ready to write nearly anyone a prescription, so I could more easily
>(legally) grow and use pot than run a pot still.

Indeed. If you're interested in distilling and/or making your own
still, there is a Yahoo group that's got a pretty good group of people
on there who know their stuff. Called 'new distillers'

Or maybe have a look at:
http://www.taet.com.au/distillers.nsf/ and http://homedistiller.org

[Jeßus]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 09:37:42 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Jonathan Wilson wrote:
>
>>> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of
>>> course. Go into any home
>
>> I have never understood why its legal to ferment alcohol for home production (as long as you dont sell it without a
>> license) yet its illegal to distill alcohol without being a big high-volume commercial operation and getting a
>> hard-to-get license (which is why you dont see small-scale distilling operations along the lines of the microbreweries
>> that are popping up)
>
>You do actually, there are in fact a number of them.

There's quite a few micro breweries here in Tassie and I'm even
contemplating joining their ranks at some point. We have all the
ingredients right here locally. If I do, it'll be mead and/or cider
and perry, or some combination thereof.
I'm in no hurry to jump into the deep end though.

>Why should those who prefer decent single malts have to pay a hell
>of a lot more tax than those who prefer commercial wine instead ?

Just an outdated tax... but being a tax, good luck trying to get it
repealed :\

[Jeßus]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:17:05 -0800 (PST), BruceS
<bruc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Jan 26, 11:47 pm, Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:17:16 -0800 (PST), Brad <goog...@vk2qq.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, January 26, 2012 9:22:07 AM UTC+11, Jeßus wrote:
>> That's OK, but you need to be aware that freeze distillation doesn't
>> remove the methanol. Not necessarily a problem though, just so long as
>> you're aware of it and not aiming for maximum alcohol content.
>>
>> I was only thinking last night of freeze distilling some of my mead,
>> in order to make a mead liqueur, I'm only looking to make the alcohol
>> content around 20-25% so it should work well and methanol shouldn't be
>> an issue at that strength. I could use the pot still of course, but
>> I'm thinking I might get a better result with freeze distillation
>> (retaining more colour and flavour than the pot still, hopefully).
>
>I've thought about freeze-distilling, as it takes no extra equipment
>that would be suspicious. If you have cold enough weather, you should
>even be able to remove the methanol that way, though just thinking
>about the temperatures involved (-73C to -115C) makes my fingers
>ache.

We get regular -6ºC minimums during winter, which is cold enough,
thanks :)

> No matter what the total alcohol concentration, the ethanol/
>methanol ratio should be the same unless you've removed methanol
>during distillation, so I don't get your focus on strength.


Sorry, you worded it much better than I did, yeah, the ratio would be
the same.

>I would
>also expect mead (and beer) to have negligible methanol concentration
>since they don't use any fruit skin or other "woody" substances, but
>I've never researched that so I could be completely off base.

Same here, I haven't done any research into if in fact there would be
any methanol in mead, I would assume there would be little if any, but
I'd rather err on the side of caution in the meantime. Not that that
will stop my freeze distilling. I may even get around to freeze
distilling some mead this weekend, time permitting. I have two batches
of lager to start and then bottle the mead I racked the other day as
it is.

>Maybe I'll do that for my next mead batch. I could make it still, let
>it sit until the weather gets cold enough, freeze distill it to a half
>volume or so, then force carbonate some of the result in bottles while
>leaving the majority still in bottles.

Please do this, I'd love to hear back about your experiences.

[Jeßus]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:37:14 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:


>Yeah, I dont even bother to not pour out the very last from the stubby
>anymore.

I still do, but then I also take my brews up to 24L instead of 23L,
the extra liquid helps dealing with the sediment come racking and
bottling time and I can't taste the difference myself. And of course,
I still get the full 60 stubbies/2.5 cartons instead of being one or
two short.

[Petzl]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 09:37:42 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> If its because of tax, they could introduce new licenses for small shops and use that as a way of enforcing tax
>> regulations.
>
>Not really feasible. Its essentially impossible to
>reliably measure how much alcohol they have produced.
>
>I agree that it should be legal, but for some odd
>reason its only legal in NZ as far as I know.

Don't think it is "legal" in NZ but you can buy very, very good reflux
stills there, as long as you intend to use it only for distilling (eg)
"Lavender oil", Garlic oil!
All stills sold come with a recipe book on how to make Whiskey Rum
etc, though. Most home brewers I met over make spirits also very good
quality. In Campbelltown hills where I live many Sydney clubs pubs
were buying spirits from our "Croatian" Hillbillies. They only got
discovered because the legal suppliers noticed they were not selling
"Johnny Walker" "Jim Beam" to whole areas of Sydney and the AFP were
called in. No complaints from public
--
Petzl
Plonk is bad wine, Plink is bad Plonk

[Rod Speed]

Jeßus wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jonathan Wilson wrote

>>>> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a blind
>>>> eye - unless you're mass-producing of course. Go into any home

>>> I have never understood why its legal to ferment alcohol for
>>> home production (as long as you dont sell it without a license)
>>> yet its illegal to distill alcohol without being a big high-volume
>>> commercial operation and getting a hard-to-get license (which
>>> is why you dont see small-scale distilling operations along the
>>> lines of the microbreweries that are popping up)

>> You do actually, there are in fact a number of them.

> There's quite a few micro breweries here in Tassie

Yeah, a couple of our major wine operations have got into microbrewing, most obviously with de Bortolis.

> and I'm even contemplating joining their ranks at some point.
> We have all the ingredients right here locally. If I do, it'll be
> mead and/or cider and perry, or some combination thereof.
> I'm in no hurry to jump into the deep end though.

>> Why should those who prefer decent single malts have to pay a hell
>> of a lot more tax than those who prefer commercial wine instead ?

> Just an outdated tax...

I thought it might have got rethought when we got our GST, but
they just carried on regardless with that aspect of the tax system.

Presumably with the same idea behind it as the immense tax on cigarettes.

> but being a tax, good luck trying to get it repealed :\

They have been trying to makes some changes with the way commercial wine is taxed.

[Rod Speed]

Pretzl wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>> If its because of tax, they could introduce new licenses for
>>> small shops and use that as a way of enforcing tax regulations.

>> Not really feasible. Its essentially impossible to
>> reliably measure how much alcohol they have produced.

>> I agree that it should be legal, but for some odd
>> reason its only legal in NZ as far as I know.

> Don't think it is "legal" in NZ

It is anyway. Check any of the distillation sites.

> but you can buy very, very good reflux stills there,

You can here too.

> as long as you intend to use it only for distilling (eg) "Lavender oil", Garlic oil!

There is no such requirement in NZ.

> All stills sold come with a recipe book on how to make Whiskey
> Rum etc, though. Most home brewers I met over make spirits also
> very good quality. In Campbelltown hills where I live many Sydney
> clubs pubs were buying spirits from our "Croatian" Hillbillies. They
> only got discovered because the legal suppliers noticed they were
> not selling "Johnny Walker" "Jim Beam" to whole areas of Sydney

I just dont believe that.

> and the AFP were called in.

The AFP aint even the relevant authority.

> No complaints from public

[Jeßus]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:54:44 +1100, Petzl <pet...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 09:37:42 +1100, "Rod Speed"
><rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> If its because of tax, they could introduce new licenses for small shops and use that as a way of enforcing tax
>>> regulations.
>>
>>Not really feasible. Its essentially impossible to
>>reliably measure how much alcohol they have produced.
>>
>>I agree that it should be legal, but for some odd
>>reason its only legal in NZ as far as I know.
>
>Don't think it is "legal" in NZ

Distilling alcohol is most definitely is legal in N.Z, since 1996
IIRC.

[Jeßus]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:20:34 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> All stills sold come with a recipe book on how to make Whiskey
>> Rum etc, though. Most home brewers I met over make spirits also
>> very good quality. In Campbelltown hills where I live many Sydney
>> clubs pubs were buying spirits from our "Croatian" Hillbillies. They
>> only got discovered because the legal suppliers noticed they were
>> not selling "Johnny Walker" "Jim Beam" to whole areas of Sydney
>
>I just dont believe that.
>
>> and the AFP were called in.
>
>The AFP aint even the relevant authority.
>
>> No complaints from public

And you'd think something like that'd be splashed all over the news,
the media would jump onto something like that quick smart.

[Petzl]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:20:34 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Don't think it is "legal" in NZ
>
>It is anyway. Check any of the distillation sites.
>

Long time since I were there. Seems the law has been changed and is
now legal.

>> but you can buy very, very good reflux stills there,
>
>You can here too.
>
>> as long as you intend to use it only for distilling (eg) "Lavender oil", Garlic oil!
>
>There is no such requirement in NZ.
>
>> All stills sold come with a recipe book on how to make Whiskey
>> Rum etc, though. Most home brewers I met over make spirits also
>> very good quality. In Campbelltown hills where I live many Sydney
>> clubs pubs were buying spirits from our "Croatian" Hillbillies. They
>> only got discovered because the legal suppliers noticed they were
>> not selling "Johnny Walker" "Jim Beam" to whole areas of Sydney
>
>I just dont believe that.

It happened in the 80's would I lie to you?

>> and the AFP were called in.
>
>The AFP aint even the relevant authority.
>

Not sure it happened around 30 years ago.

>> No complaints from public
>

[Petzl]

Front page on the Telegraph but can't find it on google? Probably mid
1980's

[Petzl]

Yeah looked it up. Haven't been there for over 30 years but were
impressed at the quality of the spirits made

[Rod Speed]

Pretzl wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>> Don't think it is "legal" in NZ

>> It is anyway. Check any of the distillation sites.

> Long time since I were there. Seems the law has been changed and is now legal.

Its been legal there for a long time.

>>> but you can buy very, very good reflux stills there,

>> You can here too.

>>> as long as you intend to use it only for distilling (eg) "Lavender oil", Garlic oil!

>> There is no such requirement in NZ.

>>> All stills sold come with a recipe book on how to make Whiskey
>>> Rum etc, though. Most home brewers I met over make spirits also
>>> very good quality. In Campbelltown hills where I live many Sydney
>>> clubs pubs were buying spirits from our "Croatian" Hillbillies. They
>>> only got discovered because the legal suppliers noticed they were
>>> not selling "Johnny Walker" "Jim Beam" to whole areas of Sydney

>> I just dont believe that.

> It happened in the 80's

Dont believe that last was ever true anywhere.

> would I lie to you?

You could well be stupid enough to have bought that lie from someone else.

>>> and the AFP were called in.

>> The AFP aint even the relevant authority.

> Not sure

I am.

> it happened around 30 years ago.

They werent then either.

>>> No complaints from public

[Charlie]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:05:32 +1100, Jeßus <no...@all.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 16:07:45 +1100, "Rod Speed"
><rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
><alt.beer.home-brewing & rec.food.drink.beer added in the vain hope
>that it may resuscitate them>
>
>>Jeßus wrote
>>> Mead can be very simple to make - but not necessarily cheap -
>>> depending on the honey used. The 30L one I racked today cost $150 in
>>> Rainforest honey and $20 for the 2 packs of special mead yeast that I use.
>>
>>Yeah, thats a hell of a lot more than I ever spend on a batch of beer.
>
>Indeed it is, but then my motives for home brewing isn't purely to
>save money. I actually prefer my beer to almost all commercial beers.
>My favourite commercial beer - from the bigger breweries at least -
>has always been Coopers, so sediment has never been something that's
>bothered me. As for the mead, well I just love the stuff and it's very
>expensive to buy, assuming you can even find some to buy, that is.
>
<snip>

A few years ago, I and an american friend did a tour of all the
meaderies in Australia.

The best in our opinion [and he is also involved in judging meads in
the US] was one in SA called Chateau Dorrien.

When I returned to WA I ordered a couple of cartons from them and from
memory it only cost about $20 freight.

I started making mead in 2005 but mostly sweetish stuff and I didn't
bother with bottles storing it in flagons and demijohns.

Charlie

[BruceS]

One of my recent batches, I tried getting around it by filling a 1L
bottle with beer, and force-carbonating it in that bottle. I built a
simple cap & valve setup based on a YouTube video I found, and it
works OK. Still, it's a bit offputting to have beer in a plastic
bottle. I think next batch, I'll put beer in a couple champagne
bottles, and add the small amount of invert sugar needed. Either way,
it's a bit of extra hassle, when using the keg is mainly about
reducing hassle. I guess I should just be happy to have four kegs,
and stop whining, but each one is different, so I still run out of
something for a while.

> >> Most of my meads have used those wyeast mead yeasts - both dry and
> >> sweet. For a 30L batch, that costs me AUD$20 just for the yeast. For
> >> my first ever mead, I used bakers yeast. There was also an air leak in
> >> the lid, and possibly some wild yeasts snuck in there as well... but
> >> all I know is, that remains the best mead I've made yet :) As
> >> mentioned before, my next batches will use champagne yeast, will be
> >> interesting to see the results. I'm still experimenting with honeys
> >> and yeast, but eventually I'll settle on one or two combinations. I'm
> >> hoping the cheaper yeasts work best, for obvious reasons.
>
> >I think they'll work fine, and I hope you find that as well.  No need
> >to spend so much on yeast, though I'd opt for the champagne long
> >before the bakers'.
>
> As would I, normally. All I know is the very first 5L batch of mead is
> still the best one I made, I used bakers yeast (followed the recipe to
> the letter). Mind you, there was a leak around the airlock and wild
> yeast may have gotten in. After only 2-3 months, the honey had
> clarified completely, something I haven't achieved with any other
> yeast. And it really does taste the best of all the batches I've done
> so far <shrug>. But yeah, next batch of mead will be either champagne
> or other wine yeast.

That's part of the fun of brewing; it isn't entirely predictable or
reproducible for those of us that don't write down every detail. My
best batch of mead was a mistake, and I've never been able to come
close to it. Mine do clarify pretty well, once the carbonation has
slowed. In case you're not already doing it, it may help to rack it
every time it builds up a significant layer of sediment.

> >> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a
> >> blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of course. Go into any home
> >> brew shop here in Oz and you'll see stills, essences etc. openly for
> >> sale. We are actually allowed to own and use a till for oil extracts
> >> or water distillation... but NOT for alcohol production. Max.
> >> allowable size is only 5L as well, although there is no trouble
> >> purchasing much bigger stills.
>
> >I'm not sure how seriously they take it here, but I haven't seen any
> >distilling equipment at the brew shops, so that's probably a fair
> >indicator.  Years ago I bought a book on building stills, but now I
> >can't even find it.  I'm paranoid enough that I bought it with cash,
> >even though I had no intent to actually build a still.  I like the
> >design with a vertical tube of marbles to improve efficiency.
> >Authorities here can sometimes be breathtakingly absurd in their
> >enforcement of laws related to recreational drugs.  Colorado now
> >allows "medical" marijuana, with shops having "compassionate" doctors
> >ready to write nearly anyone a prescription, so I could more easily
> >(legally) grow and use pot than run a pot still.
>
> Indeed. If you're interested in distilling and/or making your own
> still, there is a Yahoo group that's got a pretty good group of people
> on there who know their stuff. Called 'new distillers'

Thanks, I'll look into that.

> Or maybe have a look at:http://www.taet.com.au/distillers.nsf/and  http://homedistiller.org

Or that.
Or both. I have a lot of free time these days.

[BruceS]

On Jan 27, 4:33 pm, Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:17:05 -0800 (PST), BruceS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <bruce...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 26, 11:47 pm, Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:17:16 -0800 (PST), Brad <goog...@vk2qq.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >On Thursday, January 26, 2012 9:22:07 AM UTC+11, Jeßus wrote:
> >> That's OK, but you need to be aware that freeze distillation doesn't
> >> remove the methanol. Not necessarily a problem though, just so long as
> >> you're aware of it and not aiming for maximum alcohol content.
>
> >> I was only thinking last night of freeze distilling some of my mead,
> >> in order to make a mead liqueur, I'm only looking to make the alcohol
> >> content around 20-25% so it should work well and methanol shouldn't be
> >> an issue at that strength. I could use the pot still of course, but
> >> I'm thinking I might get a better result with freeze distillation
> >> (retaining more colour and flavour than the pot still, hopefully).
>
> >I've thought about freeze-distilling, as it takes no extra equipment
> >that would be suspicious.  If you have cold enough weather, you should
> >even be able to remove the methanol that way, though just thinking
> >about the temperatures involved (-73C to -115C) makes my fingers
> >ache.
>
> We get regular -6ºC minimums during winter, which is cold enough,
> thanks :)

Cold enough to separate water from alcohol, but not enough to separate
ethanol from methanol. I was just joking about "cold weather" doing
that.

> > No matter what the total alcohol concentration, the ethanol/
> >methanol ratio should be the same unless you've removed methanol
> >during distillation, so I don't get your focus on strength.
>
> Sorry, you worded it much better than I did, yeah, the ratio would be
> the same.
>
> >I would
> >also expect mead (and beer) to have negligible methanol concentration
> >since they don't use any fruit skin or other "woody" substances, but
> >I've never researched that so I could be completely off base.
>
> Same here, I haven't done any research into if in fact there would be
> any methanol in mead, I would assume there would be little if any, but
> I'd rather err on the side of caution in the meantime. Not that that
> will stop my freeze distilling. I may even get around to freeze
> distilling some mead this weekend, time permitting. I have two batches
> of lager to start and then bottle the mead I racked the other day as
> it is.
>
> >Maybe I'll do that for my next mead batch.  I could make it still, let
> >it sit until the weather gets cold enough, freeze distill it to a half
> >volume or so, then force carbonate some of the result in bottles while
> >leaving the majority still in bottles.
>
> Please do this, I'd love to hear back about your experiences.

I'll try to remember to post here when I do.

[Rod Speed]

BruceS wrote
> Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote
>> BruceS <bruce...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>> Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote
>>>> BruceS <bruce...@hotmail.com> wrote

Dunno, I do about half of mine in plastic, Cooper's PETs.

The other half in glass 375ml bottles we call stubbys.

Mate of mine whose kids drink lots of softdrink uses those plastic bottles.

The PETs are easier to fill because they are twice the size but you cant
leave them in the plastic bottles as long, Coopers recommends no longer
than 3 months. I routinely drink some beer a year after its bottled because
some years I do the entire year's supply in just one mega brewing season.

The main think I dont like with plastic other than that is that you cant
wash them in the dishwasher. The stubbys are fine in the dishwasher.

I do have some traditional glass beer bottles, but I got them at yard/
garage sales and so far havent gotten around to cleaning them. They
dont do well in the dishwasher, it doesnt work that well with those
much bigger bottles.

> I think next batch, I'll put beer in a couple champagne
> bottles, and add the small amount of invert sugar needed.
> Either way, it's a bit of extra hassle, when using the keg
> is mainly about reducing hassle.

Yeah, certainly saves the bottling time which
is by far the most effort with a particular batch.

> I guess I should just be happy to have four kegs,
> and stop whining, but each one is different, so I
> still run out of something for a while.

And they need their own dedicated fridge/fridges with beer.

That adds to the cost considerably, and the running cost too.

Thats why I document things properly, including the temps.

That situation of not being about to duplicate one of the best
irritates the hell out of me.

[BruceS]

On Jan 26, 5:37 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jeßus wrote
>

> > Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote

> >> Jeßus wrote
> > <alt.beer.home-brewing & rec.food.drink.beer
> > added in the vain hope that it may resuscitate them>
> >>> Mead can be very simple to make - but not necessarily cheap -
> >>> depending on the honey used. The 30L one I racked today cost $150 in
> >>> Rainforest honey and $20 for the 2 packs of special mead yeast that I use.
> >> Yeah, thats a hell of a lot more than I ever spend on a batch of beer.
> > Indeed it is, but then my motives for home brewing isn't purely to
> > save money. I actually prefer my beer to almost all commercial beers.
>
> Yeah, me too, and thats the reason I started brewing, a mate of mine's
> home brew was at least as good as the commercial stuff and when he
> told me that you didnt have to wash the stubbys that they were fine in
> the dishwasher, and I tried them in mine and found he was right, I started
> saving the commercial stubbys myself.

The dishwasher should do a pretty good job of washing (no soap or
detergent) and sterilizing.

> > My favourite commercial beer - from the bigger breweries
> > at least - has always been Coopers, so sediment has never
> > been something that's bothered me.
>
> Yeah, I dont even bother to not pour out the very last from the stubby
> anymore. I always drink from a proper glass now that I have stopped
> drinking the commercial beers.
>
> The only exception is the last stubby in a bottling run, I dont drink that sediment.

What's different there?

> > As for the mead, well I just love the stuff and it's very expensive
> > to buy, assuming you can even find some to buy, that is.
>
> Yeah, I've never noticed it for sale. Havent looked for it tho.

I almost want to dissuade you from doing that. Commercial mead is not
only expensive, IME it's also generally sweet and still. What you
brew yourself will be as good, or better. Just don't expect the same
speed as beer, as yeast doesn't like to eat honey. Then again, maybe
a commercial mead will turn you on to what you can do on your own.

> Might try some just like I did with cider etc.
>
> >> I'll likely get a spirit still next. The mate of mine that
> >> I infected with the beer brewing bug has just got one
> >> and its worked out pretty well.
> >> Mostly scotch, I do spend a bit on commercial scotch currently.
> >> Unlikely that the 80 year old scotch will be viable to make myself tho.
> > I've been distilling for a couple of years now, at first with one of those 'air' stills,
>
> Yeah, thats what the mate of mine has just got.

What's an "air" still?

> > but now mainly I use a pot still. I'm not really a spirit drinker,
>
> I do it in bursts.

I drink quite a bit of whisky, and a decent amount of whiskey. Almost
enough to make me do more cloud pics, but not nearly enough to see
genies or whatever in them.

> > but I do like apple cider brandy and other brandies.
> > I intend to lightly distill mead at some point, hoping to
> > make a mead liqueur. There is a Tasmanian company
> > that makes one, and it's bloody delicious, neat with ice.
>
>I drink my scotch neat with no ice and a drop of water, quite literally just a single drop.

No water here. I tried that with a couple of whisky brands, and
didn't think it added anything, so I just drink it neat. A guy at a
liquor shop the other night told me he did the same, but kept notes,
and found some whiskies were better with that drop, others not. Maybe
I quit too soon.

> I love the best single malts, hate the prices tho.
>
> Dont expect I will ever make anything like that tho, hell of a lot of work and years quite literally too.
>
> I really just want to replace the commercial blended scotches that arent cheap due to the duty system here.

Here ether. I just trust that the work to get the best effect is more
than the cost of just buying it, and test various brands.

> > The vodka comes in handy for making vanilla essence as well.

I drink almost no vodka, except the occasional zubrufka (sp) from
Poland. I used to drink a bit of rum in college, but have very little
now. Same goes for gin, though I tapered off more slowly. Now it's
beer, wine, mead, and whisk{e}y. I have barely had any liqueur (exc.
in margaritas) since college.

If any of this seems incoherent, it's because I had a little party
here for home brewers, and it's quite possible I overindulged just a
little bit. I know I wouldn't want to have tried driving home from
this, but since I hosted it, no problemo.

[Rod Speed]

BruceS wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jeßus wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Jeßus wrote

>>> <alt.beer.home-brewing & rec.food.drink.beer
>>> added in the vain hope that it may resuscitate them>

>>>>> Mead can be very simple to make - but not necessarily cheap -
>>>>> depending on the honey used. The 30L one I racked today cost $150
>>>>> in Rainforest honey and $20 for the 2 packs of special mead yeast
>>>>> that I use.

>>>> Yeah, thats a hell of a lot more than I ever spend on a batch of beer.

>>> Indeed it is, but then my motives for home brewing isn't purely to
>>> save money. I actually prefer my beer to almost all commercial beers.

>> Yeah, me too, and thats the reason I started brewing, a mate of mine's
>> home brew was at least as good as the commercial stuff and when he
>> told me that you didnt have to wash the stubbys that they were fine in
>> the dishwasher, and I tried them in mine and found he was right, I
>> started saving the commercial stubbys myself.

> The dishwasher should do a pretty good job of washing

Yep, close to perfect. You do get a few that need to go thru the machine twice, but very few.

> (no soap or detergent)

I just put them in with the normal load, so they get the normal detergent.

The rinse phase is so thorough that you never get any residue at all, in
fact they are so brilliantly clean that they are visibly better than by hand.

I dont use any rinse aid.

> and sterilizing.

I rely on the final hot rinse to that.

Doesnt work for my mate tho, his dishwasher doesnt do as good a job.

Havent compared them to see why.

He prefers to use plastic soft drink bottles for his beer, mainly
because he fills 1/3 or 1/4 as many bottles per batch.

>>> My favourite commercial beer - from the bigger breweries
>>> at least - has always been Coopers, so sediment has never
>>> been something that's bothered me.

>> Yeah, I dont even bother to not pour out the very last from the stubby
>> anymore. I always drink from a proper glass now that I have stopped
>> drinking the commercial beers.

>> The only exception is the last stubby in a bottling run, I dont
>> drink that sediment.

> What's different there?

That last stubby has a hell olf a lot of sediment in it. Very visible when
just filled, you cant even see thru the bottle there's so much sediment.

That settles before I drink it but still has much more visible in the bottle
before pouring out the beer. You dont get any in the glass if you are
careful, its easy to see it coming with the last of the beer.

I never drink from the stubbys anymore except when I am out
visiting and bring my own beer and dont bother to take a glass.

I find that the beer tastes a lot better from a proper glass.

I used to drink the commercial stuff from the stubby, and
still do on the rare ocassion when I still drink commercial
beer, because the only alternative is softdrink etc.

>>> As for the mead, well I just love the stuff and it's very expensive
>>> to buy, assuming you can even find some to buy, that is.

>> Yeah, I've never noticed it for sale. Havent looked for it tho.

> I almost want to dissuade you from doing that. Commercial mead is
> not only expensive, IME it's also generally sweet and still. What you
> brew yourself will be as good, or better. Just don't expect the same
> speed as beer, as yeast doesn't like to eat honey. Then again, maybe
> a commercial mead will turn you on to what you can do on your own.

I do plan to try some. Managed to forget to check what
honey is available at the farmers markets yesterday tho.

Whats the story on the brewing temps ? I've just stopped
the beer brewing because its getting too hot here now.

We can have 10 days over 40C, tho we havent this year yet.

Obviously where I brew the beer doesnt get that hot but it
can easily get to 30C and I choose not to brew when I have
to heat or cool just to keep the cost down. Its normally easy
to brew when I dont need to heat or cool since I normally
brew 3 batches at a time.

>> Might try some just like I did with cider etc.

>>>> I'll likely get a spirit still next. The mate of mine that
>>>> I infected with the beer brewing bug has just got one
>>>> and its worked out pretty well.

>>>> Mostly scotch, I do spend a bit on commercial scotch currently.

>>>> Unlikely that the 80 year old scotch will be viable to make myself tho.

>>> I've been distilling for a couple of years now, at first with one of those 'air' stills,

>> Yeah, thats what the mate of mine has just got.

> What's an "air" still?

Doesnt use water to cool the condenser.

>>> but now mainly I use a pot still. I'm not really a spirit drinker,

>> I do it in bursts.

> I drink quite a bit of whisky, and a decent amount of whiskey.

I prefer scotch myself. My mate does prefer whiskey.

> Almost enough to make me do more cloud pics, but
> not nearly enough to see genies or whatever in them.

Never get that, the worst I ever get it that
I have to be a bit more careful walking.

>>> but I do like apple cider brandy and other brandies.
>>> I intend to lightly distill mead at some point, hoping to
>>> make a mead liqueur. There is a Tasmanian company
>>> that makes one, and it's bloody delicious, neat with ice.

>> I drink my scotch neat with no ice and a drop of water,
>> quite literally just a single drop.

> No water here. I tried that with a couple of whisky brands, and
> didn't think it added anything, so I just drink it neat. A guy at a
> liquor shop the other night told me he did the same, but kept notes,
> and found some whiskies were better with that drop, others not.
> Maybe I quit too soon.

I havent tried a proper double blind trial, not clear if I could pick it.

>> I love the best single malts, hate the prices tho.

>> Dont expect I will ever make anything like that tho,
>> hell of a lot of work and years quite literally too.

>> I really just want to replace the commercial blended
>> scotches that arent cheap due to the duty system here.

> Here ether. I just trust that the work to get the best effect is
> more than the cost of just buying it, and test various brands.

>>> The vodka comes in handy for making vanilla essence as well.

> I drink almost no vodka, except the occasional zubrufka (sp) from Poland.

I dont even drink that.

When I was in college, I majored in chemistry, a crazy Danish
temporary visitor who was escaped the Danish conscription
system in the 60s made some schapps with what chemists
call SVR, basically the purest ethanol you can get. It isnt safe
to drink the other form of pure ethanol, what chemists call
absolute alcohol, since the residual water is removed using
benzine and there will always be some benzene remaining
and its carcenogic.

He just added water and an oil whose name I cant quite remember,
probably carraway seed oil, but that doesnt sound quite right.

Dunno if it would appeal as much as it did then, damned near half a century ago now, bugger.

> I used to drink a bit of rum in college, but have very little now.
> Same goes for gin, though I tapered off more slowly.

I've never drunk it neat, only as G&T. That is a nice change from beer in the hottest weather.

> Now it's beer, wine, mead, and whisk{e}y.

With me its all of those with G&T instead of mead.

> I have barely had any liqueur (exc. in margaritas) since college.

I like a decent brandy but the only true liquer I have had in decades
was a bottle of Midori, and only because the local regional airline
had an opening special that included a bottle of that for some reason.

> If any of this seems incoherent, it's because I had a little party here
> for home brewers, and it's quite possible I overindulged just a little bit.

You're doing fine. Not even any spelling mistakes, thats usually the giveaway with me.

[BruceS]

On Jan 29, 9:13 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> BruceS wrote
<snip>

> > What's different there?
>
> That last stubby has a hell olf a lot of sediment in it. Very visible when
> just filled, you cant even see thru the bottle there's so much sediment.

Ah, I get it. Mine settles enough before I give up on the
fermentation, it isn't a problem. I let it sit in the fermentation
vat a bit, so all the sediment settles. Then I rack it into a clean
fermentation vat, losing the last bit to avoid siphoning in sediment.
When I bottle, I then add invert sugar to that vat, mix well, and
bottle. The only sediment is what's formed in the bottle. Now that
I'm kegging, I just siphon/pour from the vat to the keg. A couple of
times, I even skipped the intermediate vat, just watching as I siphon
from the first one and stopping before sediment gets in. I also
support the fermentation vat at an angle (my only use for the phone
books they keep putting at my door), so I can get the maximum liquid
before giving up.

<snip>

> I do plan to try some. Managed to forget to check what
> honey is available at the farmers markets yesterday tho.
>
> Whats the story on the brewing temps ?  I've just stopped
> the beer brewing because its getting too hot here now.

I'll be interested to hear the results. It generally takes a long
time (months at least) before it's really ready to drink. I can't say
what temps exactly, but I usually do mead in the winter, when indoor
temps are right about 66F (19C).

<snip>

> > What's an "air" still?
>
> Doesnt use water to cool the condenser.

Ah, thanks. I really don't know much about stills, but that sounds
much less efficient.
<snip>

> > If any of this seems incoherent, it's because I had a little party here
> > for home brewers, and it's quite possible I overindulged just a little bit.
>
> You're doing fine. Not even any spelling mistakes, thats usually the giveaway with me.

I wasn't counting how much I drank, but I was definitely feeling it.
It was a relief to get messages from my friends when they got home. I
know they were drinking less, but probably still more than they should
have been driving after. One was on a bike, where you need to really
be more careful.

[Rod Speed]

BruceS wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> BruceS wrote

>>> What's different there?

>> That last stubby has a hell olf a lot of sediment in it. Very visible when
>> just filled, you cant even see thru the bottle there's so much sediment.

> Ah, I get it. Mine settles enough before I give up on the
> fermentation, it isn't a problem. I let it sit in the fermentation
> vat a bit, so all the sediment settles.

Mine does too. The first 59 stubbys dont have that problem and
I just pour the entire stubby contents into the glass just being a
bit careful about the head not gettting too excessive when I do that.

Its only the LAST stubby which has got so much sediment in it due
to my scottish/jewish nature that I have to be careful when pouring
it into the glass that I stop before the sediment ends up in the glass.

> Then I rack it into a clean fermentation vat,

I dont rack, I ferment and then bottle when the SG is stable
from one day to the next and the immense head you get on
the early SG samples has stopped happening so you dont
have to fill the stubbys twice.

> losing the last bit to avoid siphoning in sediment.

Thats what I dont do, too jewish/scottish/tight.

Its easier to just be careful about pouring that LAST stubby into the glass.

> When I bottle, I then add invert sugar to that vat, mix well, and bottle.

I put the secondary fermentation sugar into the stubby before filling it with the beer.

> The only sediment is what's formed in the bottle.

Thats true of all 59 of my stubbys, but not the last one.

> Now that I'm kegging, I just siphon/pour from the vat to the keg.
> A couple of times, I even skipped the intermediate vat, just watching
> as I siphon from the first one and stopping before sediment gets in.
> I also support the fermentation vat at an angle (my only use for the
> phone books they keep putting at my door), so I can get the
> maximum liquid before giving up.

Yeah, I do that when bottling too but I only tilt it when doing the last
of the bottling, because I dont bottle from the fermentation barrel
where it ferments, because I ferment 3 batches at a time and move
the batch to the top of the washing machine before bottling.

I'll to stop doing that, the 23L barrels are quite a
weight and I'll do my back in eventually doing that.

> <snip>

>> I do plan to try some. Managed to forget to check what
>> honey is available at the farmers markets yesterday tho.

>> Whats the story on the brewing temps ? I've just stopped
>> the beer brewing because its getting too hot here now.

> I'll be interested to hear the results. It generally takes a long
> time (months at least) before it's really ready to drink. I can't
> say what temps exactly, but I usually do mead in the winter,
> when indoor temps are right about 66F (19C).

Thats a problem. I dont heat the beer anymore, and even tho I
do have a barrel heater, not real keen on running that for 6 months.

We swing from too hot to too cold quite quickly most years.

> <snip>
>>> What's an "air" still?

>> Doesnt use water to cool the condenser.

> Ah, thanks. I really don't know much about stills, but that sounds much less efficient.

They are quite effective when designed properly.

[Harry Vaderchi]

On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:47:16 -0000, BruceS <bruc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Jan 29, 9:13 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> BruceS wrote

2 problems:

1. You're arguing with Rod Speed the wannabee troll.

2. You're kegging beer. But maybe that's acceptable in some foreign places.

Real Beer is non-pasteurised, non-filtered, non-chilled and allowed to
secondary ferment in the cask.

> have been driving after. One was on a bike, where you need to really
> be more careful.

is that a bike or motorcycle?


--
[dash dash space newline 4line sig]

Albi CNU

[BruceS]

On Feb 3, 12:35 pm, "Harry Vaderchi" <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:47:16 -0000, BruceS <bruce...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 29, 9:13 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> BruceS wrote
>
> 2 problems:
>
> 1. You're arguing with Rod Speed the wannabee troll.

I haven't seen him do any trolling on this thread, so it doesn't
apply.

> 2. You're kegging beer. But maybe that's acceptable in some foreign places.

It's only acceptable in places where people brew.

> Real Beer is non-pasteurised, non-filtered, non-chilled and allowed to
> secondary ferment in the cask.

Now *that* is some trolling, right there. How about "real"
computers? Or "real" cars? FTR, I don't pasteurize, filter, or chill
my beer, but I'm not out to start a flame war with those who do. As
for doing the secondary in a cask, that's just crazy talk. If you're
going to do the old-fashioned yeast-based carbonation, you should do
it in the bottle. If you're really serious, you then do the methode
champenoise to remove the sediment. But only a complete fruitbat
would do that with beer.

> > have been driving after.  One was on a bike, where you need to really
> > be more careful.
>
> is that a bike or motorcycle?

Motorcycle. I ride both, but neither when I've been drinking. Then
again, I also don't drive when I've been drinking much. The cutoff
point for riding is a lot lower than that for driving, as you need
more awareness, better response, and a lot more balance on two wheels.

[Jeßus]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 10:48:10 -0800 (PST), BruceS
<bruc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Lost track of this thread, sorry...
<snip>

>One of my recent batches, I tried getting around it by filling a 1L
>bottle with beer, and force-carbonating it in that bottle. I built a
>simple cap & valve setup based on a YouTube video I found, and it
>works OK. Still, it's a bit offputting to have beer in a plastic
>bottle. I think next batch, I'll put beer in a couple champagne
>bottles, and add the small amount of invert sugar needed. Either way,
>it's a bit of extra hassle, when using the keg is mainly about
>reducing hassle. I guess I should just be happy to have four kegs,
>and stop whining, but each one is different, so I still run out of
>something for a while.

Pros and cons to all approaches, 4 kegs is a reasonable range of brews
to have available at any given time I would think :)

>> >> Most of my meads have used those wyeast mead yeasts - both dry and
>> >> sweet. For a 30L batch, that costs me AUD$20 just for the yeast. For
>> >> my first ever mead, I used bakers yeast. There was also an air leak in
>> >> the lid, and possibly some wild yeasts snuck in there as well... but
>> >> all I know is, that remains the best mead I've made yet :) As
>> >> mentioned before, my next batches will use champagne yeast, will be
>> >> interesting to see the results. I'm still experimenting with honeys
>> >> and yeast, but eventually I'll settle on one or two combinations. I'm
>> >> hoping the cheaper yeasts work best, for obvious reasons.
>>
>> >I think they'll work fine, and I hope you find that as well.  No need
>> >to spend so much on yeast, though I'd opt for the champagne long
>> >before the bakers'.

Yep, it wasn't my long range plan to keep using these expensive
yeasts. I was just somewhat playing it 'safe' by using a so-called
proper yeast for a while, now it's time to start trying other types.

>> As would I, normally. All I know is the very first 5L batch of mead is
>> still the best one I made, I used bakers yeast (followed the recipe to
>> the letter). Mind you, there was a leak around the airlock and wild
>> yeast may have gotten in. After only 2-3 months, the honey had
>> clarified completely, something I haven't achieved with any other
>> yeast. And it really does taste the best of all the batches I've done
>> so far <shrug>. But yeah, next batch of mead will be either champagne
>> or other wine yeast.
>
>That's part of the fun of brewing; it isn't entirely predictable or
>reproducible for those of us that don't write down every detail. My
>best batch of mead was a mistake, and I've never been able to come
>close to it. Mine do clarify pretty well, once the carbonation has
>slowed. In case you're not already doing it, it may help to rack it
>every time it builds up a significant layer of sediment.

I do rack, but only once before it gets used or bottled (generally
around 3 months). Only now I'm starting to build a bit of a stockpile
of mead, meaning that future batches should get to age for a year or
two before use. That should help a lot when it comes to sediment,
being able to rack it more than once and after it has clarified
properly.

[Jeßus]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 08:43:32 +0800, Charlie <charliedatiinet.net.aus>
wrote:

Thanks for that Charlie, I'll check out Chateau Dorrien. Always
intersted in trying out other meads, be they commercial or home
brewed, if only to compare mine with theirs.

[Rod Speed]

Jeßus wrote

> BruceS <bruc...@hotmail.com> wrote

> Lost track of this thread, sorry...
> <snip>

>> One of my recent batches, I tried getting around it by filling a 1L
>> bottle with beer, and force-carbonating it in that bottle. I built a
>> simple cap & valve setup based on a YouTube video I found, and
>> it works OK. Still, it's a bit offputting to have beer in a plastic
>> bottle. I think next batch, I'll put beer in a couple champagne
>> bottles, and add the small amount of invert sugar needed. Either
>> way, it's a bit of extra hassle, when using the keg is mainly about
>> reducing hassle. I guess I should just be happy to have four kegs,
>> and stop whining, but each one is different, so I still run out of
>> something for a while.

> Pros and cons to all approaches, 4 kegs is a reasonable range
> of brews to have available at any given time I would think :)

I tend to drink a brew at a time except when visitors show up.

Mate of mine prefers much more variety than my approach, even on a particular day.

Dont think he ever has more than 4 different brews
on a particular day, but could well do in a week etc.

With fridges alone, thats a real problem.

What is your opinion on whats a desirable max temp in summer ?

[Petzl]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 15:04:08 -0800 (PST), BruceS <bruc...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Feb 3, 12:35 pm, "Harry Vaderchi" <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:47:16 -0000, BruceS <bruce...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Jan 29, 9:13 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> BruceS wrote
>>
>> 2 problems:
>>
>> 1. You're arguing with Rod Speed the wannabee troll.
>
>I haven't seen him do any trolling on this thread, so it doesn't
>apply.

He doesn't troll, He does not like opposing opinion
Home Brewing I only do this as a "Team building" exercise with
workmates in places like
http://www.thebeerfactory.com.au/index.html
--
Petzl
Chattanooga choo choo
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1d2em_chattanooga-choo-choo_fun

[Harry Vaderchi]

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 23:04:08 -0000, BruceS <bruc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 3, 12:35 pm, "Harry Vaderchi" <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:47:16 -0000, BruceS <bruce...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Jan 29, 9:13 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> BruceS wrote
>>
>> 2 problems:
>>
>> 1. You're arguing with Rod Speed the wannabee troll.
>
> I haven't seen him do any trolling on this thread, so it doesn't
> apply.
>
>> 2. You're kegging beer. But maybe that's acceptable in some foreign
>> places.
>

that was the trolling bit!

> It's only acceptable in places where people brew.
>
>> Real Beer is non-pasteurised, non-filtered, non-chilled and allowed to
>> secondary ferment in the cask.


> Now *that* is some trolling, right there. How about "real"
> computers? Or "real" cars? FTR, I don't pasteurize, filter, or chill
> my beer, but I'm not out to start a flame war with those who do. As
> for doing the secondary in a cask, that's just crazy talk. If you're
> going to do the old-fashioned yeast-based carbonation, you should do
> it in the bottle. If you're really serious, you then do the methode
> champenoise to remove the sediment. But only a complete fruitbat
> would do that with beer.

http://camra.org.uk/aboutale


You're right. I'd been drinking. Real Ale. with secondary fermentation in
the cask, but not brewed by me, I'll admit.

I'm sorry about the wind-up attempt.

>
>> > have been driving after. One was on a bike, where you need to really
>> > be more careful.
>>
>> is that a bike or motorcycle?
>
> Motorcycle. I ride both, but neither when I've been drinking. Then
> again, I also don't drive when I've been drinking much. The cutoff
> point for riding is a lot lower than that for driving, as you need
> more awareness, better response, and a lot more balance on two wheels.

I cycle to pubs and back. Only fell in the canal once, and then I was
pushed by a low bridge.

[BruceS]

On Feb 7, 1:34 pm, "Harry Vaderchi" <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 23:04:08 -0000, BruceS <bruce...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 3, 12:35 pm, "Harry Vaderchi" <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:47:16 -0000, BruceS <bruce...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Jan 29, 9:13 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> BruceS wrote
>
> >> 2 problems:
>
> >> 1. You're arguing with Rod Speed the wannabee troll.
>
> > I haven't seen him do any trolling on this thread, so it doesn't
> > apply.
>
> >> 2. You're kegging beer. But maybe that's acceptable in some foreign
> >> places.
>
> that was the trolling bit!

:s/the/a

> > It's only acceptable in places where people brew.
>
> >> Real Beer is non-pasteurised, non-filtered, non-chilled and allowed to
> >> secondary ferment in the cask.
> > Now *that* is some trolling, right there.  How about "real"
> > computers?  Or "real" cars?  FTR, I don't pasteurize, filter, or chill
> > my beer, but I'm not out to start a flame war with those who do.  As
> > for doing the secondary in a cask, that's just crazy talk.  If you're
> > going to do the old-fashioned yeast-based carbonation, you should do
> > it in the bottle.  If you're really serious, you then do the methode
> > champenoise to remove the sediment.  But only a complete fruitbat
> > would do that with beer.
>
> http://camra.org.uk/aboutale

Damnation! Seeing that you'd provided a link, I didn't even read the
link before clicking. I had the insane hope that you were linking to
a site for a group that used methode champenoise for beer. Oh well,
maybe nobody is crazy enough for that. The CAMRA definition of "real
beer" and "real ale" is a bit laughable. I only hope they aren't
taking themselves seriously. They really should *invent* a term (say
"CAMRA ale") instead of trying to appropriate an existing term, but I
guess companies like Microsoft have given bad examples. As for their
description of kegging, its also redefining an existing term, in a way
that's inconsistent with common usage. When I keg, I don't pasteurize
or filter. The degree of carbonation is also very controllable, so
their claim that it makes the beer "unnaturally fizzy" is another bit
of ignorant blather. My current setup doesn't give as much per-keg
control as I'd like, but even with it, I can maintain a lower pressure
on one or more kegs while forcing a higher pressure on other(s). This
is a normal part of the force carbonation process, as the brewer uses
a higher pressure at first, then lowers it after a short time. For
that matter, my beer (OK, so it's really ale, but we abuse those
words) and mead are "alive", in the sense that you could take a
portion, add it to a sterile wort, and start the whole fermentation
process over. I don't do that, since there's a chance of wild yeasts
having gotten in at some point (and because my brewery supply people
would frown at me for not buying fresh yeast), but others do.

> You're right. I'd been drinking. Real Ale. with secondary fermentation in
> the cask, but not brewed by me, I'll admit.

No need to "admit" such a thing---it just implies you have friends!
While that may differentiate you from a substantial part of the Usenet
population, it isn't really anything to be too embarrassed about.
Well, maybe a *little* embarrassed.

> I'm sorry about the wind-up attempt.

Ooh, I took it as a humor attempt. My bad.

> >> > have been driving after.  One was on a bike, where you need to really
> >> > be more careful.
>
> >> is that a bike or motorcycle?
>
> > Motorcycle.  I ride both, but neither when I've been drinking.  Then
> > again, I also don't drive when I've been drinking much.  The cutoff
> > point for riding is a lot lower than that for driving, as you need
> > more awareness, better response, and a lot more balance on two wheels.
>
> I cycle to pubs and back. Only fell in the canal once, and then I was
> pushed by a low bridge.

I only write this when it's literally true, as it's all too overused,
but LOL.
One time, I was with a couple friends, alternating between taking
shots of tequila (the whole salt, lime, toss one back bit) indoors,
and inhaling oxidized herb outdoors. By the end of the evening, we
were all feeling pretty good. The others drove home, and I went for a
bicycle ride. We all survived, and didn't hurt anyone else! Yay!
I'm sometimes appalled at the incredibly stupid and dangerous things I
did when younger, and try to keep that in mind when I see young people
today doing stupid stuff. Even today, I'm not a real "ATGATT" sort on
the motorcycle, sometimes going with no more protective gear than a
3/4 helmet, gloves, and boots. Maybe one day I'll look back on that
and shake my head. We cruiser bikers aren't nearly as polarized as
crotch rocket jockeys.

[BruceS]

On Jan 29, 11:51 am, BruceS <bruce...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 27, 4:33 pm, Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote:

<snip>

> > Please do this, I'd love to hear back about your experiences.
>
> I'll try to remember to post here when I do.

Hypothetically, imagine a person put some mead in the freezer. After
it got down to about 22F (-5.5C), the whole thing (about 3L) turns to
a fairly homogenous mush. There's some ice crystals, but no chunks.
On removal, the ice crystals have a decidedly yellow color, just like
the mead did originally. After being melted and consumed, they have
the same flavor and seem to have about the same effect as one would
expect of the original mead. What has this person done wrong?
Shouldn't the water portion (with a very small ethanol concentration)
separate out and freeze, leaving the remaining portion with a much
higher ethanol percentage?
EMWTK

[atec77]

using a simple wort then freezing the thing until large lumps of ice
appear the remaining liquid tends to be mostly Alcohol in my experience

--









X-No-Archive: Yes

[Rod Speed]

BruceS wrote

> BruceS <bruce...@hotmail.com> wrote
>> Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote

>>> Please do this, I'd love to hear back about your experiences.

>> I'll try to remember to post here when I do.

> Hypothetically, imagine a person put some mead in the freezer. After
> it got down to about 22F (-5.5C), the whole thing (about 3L) turns to
> a fairly homogenous mush. There's some ice crystals, but no chunks.
> On removal, the ice crystals have a decidedly yellow color, just like
> the mead did originally. After being melted and consumed, they have
> the same flavor and seem to have about the same effect as one would
> expect of the original mead. What has this person done wrong?
> Shouldn't the water portion (with a very small ethanol concentration)
> separate out and freeze, leaving the remaining portion with a much
> higher ethanol percentage?
> EMWTK

That whole process is much more complicated than it looks.

Zone refining shows that its not as simple as just freezing it once.

There's a reason that the commercial process is distiling, not freezing.

[Jeßus]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 14:33:18 -0800 (PST), BruceS <bruc...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Based on my experience, I would say they've left it in the freezer for
too long. I found that approx. six hours nicely froze a good amount of
water, the ice did not appear to have much colour (if any) and was
easy to separate from the good stuff. When I left it in the freezer
overnight, I got the homogenous mush you speak of. My freezer temp is
somewhere around -20ºC, according to the thermometer.

[Jeßus]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 08:30:04 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Jeßus wrote
>> BruceS <bruc...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
>> Lost track of this thread, sorry...
>> <snip>
>
>>> One of my recent batches, I tried getting around it by filling a 1L
>>> bottle with beer, and force-carbonating it in that bottle. I built a
>>> simple cap & valve setup based on a YouTube video I found, and
>>> it works OK. Still, it's a bit offputting to have beer in a plastic
>>> bottle. I think next batch, I'll put beer in a couple champagne
>>> bottles, and add the small amount of invert sugar needed. Either
>>> way, it's a bit of extra hassle, when using the keg is mainly about
>>> reducing hassle. I guess I should just be happy to have four kegs,
>>> and stop whining, but each one is different, so I still run out of
>>> something for a while.
>
>> Pros and cons to all approaches, 4 kegs is a reasonable range
>> of brews to have available at any given time I would think :)
>
>I tend to drink a brew at a time except when visitors show up.
>
>Mate of mine prefers much more variety than my approach, even on a particular day.

I get 2.5 cartons per batch (stubbies), I generally wait 2-3 months,
then drink 1 to 1.5 cartons of those cartons, then leave the other
carton to age for up to 18 months. I try to maintain the 'stockpile'
around 30 cartons of beer and cider at any given time.
I like to have two different beers, one type of cider and mead in the
fridge.

>> I do rack, but only once before it gets used or bottled (generally
>> around 3 months). Only now I'm starting to build a bit of a stockpile
>> of mead, meaning that future batches should get to age for a year or
>> two before use. That should help a lot when it comes to sediment,
>> being able to rack it more than once and after it has clarified properly.
>
>What is your opinion on whats a desirable max temp in summer ?

I don't have much of an opinion on that at this stage, not something
I've investigated... yet. However, I would say 28şC is as high as many
yeasts can handle. Most of my brews sit around 24-26şC, summer or
winter (in winter I use aquarium heaters).

[Jeßus]

I should also mention that I used a large rectangular plastic storage
container (food grade plastic of course), which meant that there was a
very large surface area for the liquid, which was probably only 2-3"
deep. This probably helped make the process a lot easier.

[Rod Speed]

Jeßus wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jeßus wrote
>>> BruceS <bruc...@hotmail.com> wrote

>>> Lost track of this thread, sorry...

>>>> One of my recent batches, I tried getting around it by filling a
>>>> 1L bottle with beer, and force-carbonating it in that bottle. I
>>>> built a simple cap & valve setup based on a YouTube video I found,
>>>> and it works OK. Still, it's a bit offputting to have beer in a
>>>> plastic bottle. I think next batch, I'll put beer in a couple
>>>> champagne bottles, and add the small amount of invert sugar
>>>> needed. Either way, it's a bit of extra hassle, when using the
>>>> keg is mainly about reducing hassle. I guess I should just be
>>>> happy to have four kegs, and stop whining, but each one is
>>>> different, so I still run out of something for a while.

>>> Pros and cons to all approaches, 4 kegs is a reasonable range
>>> of brews to have available at any given time I would think :)

>> I tend to drink a brew at a time except when visitors show up.

>> Mate of mine prefers much more variety than my approach, even on a particular day.

> I get 2.5 cartons per batch (stubbies),

Yeah, me too, 60 stubbys or 30 PETs.

> I generally wait 2-3 months,

I always wait at least that long, sometime much longer
because I brew at most once or twice a year.

Just once this year because it stayed warm and cool enough for longer than usual.

I prefer not to heat or cool while brewing.

> then drink 1 to 1.5 cartons of those cartons, then
> leave the other carton to age for up to 18 months.

I dont need to split the brew like that because of the way I brew.

> I try to maintain the 'stockpile' around 30 cartons of beer and cider at any given time.

I dont try to ensure I always have that as a minimum.

And I dont bother with cider anymore, I prefer the beer.

> I like to have two different beers, one
> type of cider and mead in the fridge.

I normally have more than a couple of beer brews because
some of the visitors prefer more than one beer brew in a session.

>>> I do rack, but only once before it gets used or bottled (generally
>>> around 3 months). Only now I'm starting to build a bit of a stockpile
>>> of mead, meaning that future batches should get to age for a year or
>>> two before use. That should help a lot when it comes to sediment,
>>> being able to rack it more than once and after it has clarified properly.

>> What is your opinion on whats a desirable max temp in summer ?

> I don't have much of an opinion on that at this stage,
> not something I've investigated... yet. However, I
> would say 28şC is as high as many yeasts can handle.

In that case I cant do it thru the summer.

> Most of my brews sit around 24-26şC,

Yeah, thats what I mostly brew at. The main exception is the
Coopers European Lager which prefers 21. Its a bit tricky temp
wise because I prefer not to heat or cool and we can swing from
too hot to too cold and the reverse in just a week some years.

> summer or winter (in winter I use aquarium heaters).

I do have a heater belt but only for one fermenter.
I normally run 3 fermenters at a time now, tho I
obvously wouldnt with a trial mead that can be in
the fermenter for 6-12 months. I'd use the Tooheys
fermenter that I dont use for beer anymore, because
its just a bit too small and you can get quite a bit of
the early fermentation coming out the airlock with
particularly the Cooper's yeasts.

Or the massive great black on I got for free at a garage sale.
The problem with that one is that you can see the water level
accurately when you fill it so have to use a dip stick etc.

[BruceS]

On Feb 7, 7:15 pm, Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:53:50 +1100, Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote:
> >On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 14:33:18 -0800 (PST), BruceS <bruce...@hotmail.com>

This was a round plastic container, not tall, just big around. At no
time did it seem to make hard ice chunks, just slowly went from cold
liquid to colder slush. I'm starting to wonder if my friendly local
distillery would be willing to distill a small batch of mead.

No experiment is a failure. Some confirm the experimenter's
expectations, which is ok. Others challenge those, leading to new
assumptions, new expectations, and new knowledge, which is better.

[Jeßus]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 14:28:26 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I do have a heater belt but only for one fermenter.

I broke one of my aquarium heaters yeasterday, I think I might go to
heating mats... the aquarium heaters are fragile and make cleaning
quite a bit harder.

>Or the massive great black on I got for free at a garage sale.
>The problem with that one is that you can see the water level
>accurately when you fill it so have to use a dip stick etc.

Heh, I also got the same type of drum from garage sales a couple of
months ago, must be a good 40L. I'd never even thought about the fact
that it's not transparent, I still havent used it (obviously). Come
apple season time, I will though.

Bought two 34L glass carboys the other day and as I type this I'm
re-racking two batches of mead into those. Then I'll rack the two
batches of Cascade lager, let it resettle and bottle 'em tomorrow.
And start two more batches of Cascade pale ale...

[Jeßus]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 06:58:39 -0800 (PST), BruceS <bruc...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>This was a round plastic container, not tall, just big around. At no
>time did it seem to make hard ice chunks, just slowly went from cold
>liquid to colder slush. I'm starting to wonder if my friendly local
>distillery would be willing to distill a small batch of mead.

Worth a try, I wish I had a local distillery to go to. Well, there are
a couple but a bit of a drive.

>No experiment is a failure. Some confirm the experimenter's
>expectations, which is ok. Others challenge those, leading to new
>assumptions, new expectations, and new knowledge, which is better.

Exactly. It's all a learning process.

[BruceS]

On Feb 12, 6:32 pm, Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 14:28:26 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>

> <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I do have a heater belt but only for one fermenter.
>
> I broke one of my aquarium heaters yeasterday, I think I might go to
> heating mats... the aquarium heaters are fragile and make cleaning
> quite a bit harder.
>
> >Or the massive great black on I got for free at a garage sale.
> >The problem with that one is that you can see the water level
> >accurately when you fill it so have to use a dip stick etc.
>
> Heh, I also got the same type of drum from garage sales a couple of
> months ago, must be a good 40L. I'd never even thought about the fact
> that it's not transparent, I still havent used it (obviously). Come
> apple season time, I will though.

Here's a thought: drill two holes in the can, one near the top and one
near the bottom. Cut a length of clear plastic pipe about as long as
the distance between the holes. Attach right-angle fittings (aka
"elbows") to each end of the tube, and seal onto the can. If you can
picture this, it would be a sort of "window" into the can, letting you
see the level. It would be a bit of a hassle, but not too bad and not
too expensive. It may also make cleaning a bit harder. I don't know
if it's worth it, but I may try this with a korny keg. For that, I'd
also have to be sure the whole thing could handle pressure, up to
maybe 50psi to be safe.

[Rod Speed]

BruceS wrote
> Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote

>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote

>>> I do have a heater belt but only for one fermenter.

>> I broke one of my aquarium heaters yeasterday,
>> I think I might go to heating mats... the aquarium
>> heaters are fragile and make cleaning quite a bit harder.

>>> Or the massive great black on I got for free at a garage sale.
>>> The problem with that one is that you can see the water level
>>> accurately when you fill it so have to use a dip stick etc.

>> Heh, I also got the same type of drum from garage sales a
>> couple of months ago, must be a good 40L. I'd never even
>> thought about the fact that it's not transparent, I still havent
>> used it (obviously). Come apple season time, I will though.

> Here's a thought: drill two holes in the can, one near the top
> and one near the bottom. Cut a length of clear plastic pipe
> about as long as the distance between the holes. Attach
> right-angle fittings (aka "elbows") to each end of the tube,
> and seal onto the can. If you can picture this, it would be
> a sort of "window" into the can, letting you see the level.

Lot easier to just use a dip stick at the only time it matters, when filling
the barrel with water when making up the initial mix of the wort and water.

> It would be a bit of a hassle, but not too bad and not too expensive.

A dip stick is even less expensive and much less hassle.

[Jeßus]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 15:37:49 -0800 (PST), BruceS
<bruc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Feb 12, 6:32 pm, Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 14:28:26 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>>
>> <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >I do have a heater belt but only for one fermenter.
>>
>> I broke one of my aquarium heaters yeasterday, I think I might go to
>> heating mats... the aquarium heaters are fragile and make cleaning
>> quite a bit harder.
>>
>> >Or the massive great black on I got for free at a garage sale.
>> >The problem with that one is that you can see the water level
>> >accurately when you fill it so have to use a dip stick etc.
>>
>> Heh, I also got the same type of drum from garage sales a couple of
>> months ago, must be a good 40L. I'd never even thought about the fact
>> that it's not transparent, I still havent used it (obviously). Come
>> apple season time, I will though.
>
>Here's a thought: drill two holes in the can, one near the top and one
>near the bottom. Cut a length of clear plastic pipe about as long as
>the distance between the holes. Attach right-angle fittings (aka
>"elbows") to each end of the tube, and seal onto the can. If you can
>picture this, it would be a sort of "window" into the can, letting you
>see the level. It would be a bit of a hassle, but not too bad and not
>too expensive. It may also make cleaning a bit harder.

That would work, but as you say the cleaning would be tedious when the
krausen dries on it... I reckon I'll just get used to it after a
couple of uses.