A group comparison: Star Trek: TNG's Tasha Yar and BSG's Starbuck.
Hunter
ragging on it. Okay, lets all compare Star Trek: The Next Generation's
Security Chief Lt. Natasha Yar and BSG's Capt. Kara Thrace by people
who have seen both series. (If I have to tell you who Natasha Yar was
or who Kara Thrace is you are ineligable :-) ):
Who would win in a fight?
Which is better looking?
The more sympathetic.
Who has bigger emotional problems?
The better "Bowl Cut" style of hair?
I think it is an easy answer to all three but I won't prejudice this
informal, highly non scientific survey by giving my own. I also concede
the more than slight unfairness of the comparison since they were in
two different worlds. One structured and supportive world with a bright
future despite the skeletons in her closet, the other hostile and
dangerous world with skeletons in her closet.
Also, does anyone think Denise Crosby, who played Yar, would be a great
choice to play Starbuck's mother? I think so. I can see her playing the
type of mother that would break her daughter Kara's fingers.
--->Hunter
Preacher
> I got the idea to do this while defending Star Trek from someone
> ragging on it. Okay, lets all compare Star Trek: The Next Generation's
> Security Chief Lt. Natasha Yar and BSG's Capt. Kara Thrace by people
> who have seen both series. (If I have to tell you who Natasha Yar was
> or who Kara Thrace is you are ineligable :-) ):
>
> Who would win in a fight?
Starbuck. Yar wasn't a wimp, but Starbuck defeated a cylon in hand to
hand combat.
> Which is better looking?
Yar.
> The more sympathetic.
Yar, because she didn't purposely hurt the good people around her in the
present.
> Who has bigger emotional problems?
Starbuck. Both had traumatic childhoods, but Yar seemed to be mostly
beyond hers. It only crept up again in intimate relationships with men.
Starbuck, otoh, has also had the experience of torturing a cylon
prisoner, being imprisoned by the same cylon and killing him repeatedly,
being deceived into thinking she had a daughter, then having that
daughter taken away, etc. She's got major alcohol abuse problems; she's
made it clear that she WANTS to hurt the people around her. She's a
train wreck of a human being.
> The better "Bowl Cut" style of hair?
Yar? This one is a non issue for me.
> I think it is an easy answer to all three but I won't prejudice this
> informal, highly non scientific survey by giving my own. I also concede
> the more than slight unfairness of the comparison since they were in
> two different worlds. One structured and supportive world with a bright
> future despite the skeletons in her closet, the other hostile and
> dangerous world with skeletons in her closet.
You got that right.
> Also, does anyone think Denise Crosby, who played Yar, would be a great
> choice to play Starbuck's mother? I think so. I can see her playing the
> type of mother that would break her daughter Kara's fingers.
There's a creepy idea. I looked up Crosby in the IMDB, and found she
just turned 49. Holy cow...
EvilBill
>
>> Who has bigger emotional problems?
>
> Starbuck. Both had traumatic childhoods, but Yar seemed to be mostly
> beyond hers. It only crept up again in intimate relationships with
> men. Starbuck, otoh, has also had the experience of torturing a cylon
> prisoner, being imprisoned by the same cylon and killing him
> repeatedly, being deceived into thinking she had a daughter, then
> having that daughter taken away, etc. She's got major alcohol abuse
> problems; she's made it clear that she WANTS to hurt the people
> around her. She's a train wreck of a human being.
>
And that's before you get into the tangled web she's woven with Apollo.
<g>
--
--
* I always hope for the best. Experience, unfortunately, has taught me
to expect the worst.
Yahoo: evilbill_agqx
Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk
Lord Vader III
EvilBill wrote:
> Preacher wrote:
> >
> >> Who has bigger emotional problems?
> >
> > Starbuck. Both had traumatic childhoods, but Yar seemed to be mostly
> > beyond hers. It only crept up again in intimate relationships with
> > men. Starbuck, otoh, has also had the experience of torturing a cylon
> > prisoner, being imprisoned by the same cylon and killing him
> > repeatedly, being deceived into thinking she had a daughter, then
> > having that daughter taken away, etc. She's got major alcohol abuse
> > problems; she's made it clear that she WANTS to hurt the people
> > around her. She's a train wreck of a human being.
> >
>
> And that's before you get into the tangled web she's woven with Apollo.
Don't forget Yar had sex with a robot.
LVIII
Kweeg
news:1165852351.8...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> I got the idea to do this while defending Star Trek from someone
> ragging on it. Okay, lets all compare Star Trek: The Next Generation's
> Security Chief Lt. Natasha Yar and BSG's Capt. Kara Thrace by people
> who have seen both series. (If I have to tell you who Natasha Yar was
> or who Kara Thrace is you are ineligable :-) ):
>
> Who would win in a fight?
> Which is better looking?
Thrace
> The more sympathetic.
Yar
> Who has bigger emotional problems?
Thrace
> The better "Bowl Cut" style of hair?
Thrace
> Also, does anyone think Denise Crosby, who played Yar, would be a great
> choice to play Starbuck's mother? I think so.
No, someone that *can* act would be a far better choice.
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"
Hunter
Preacher wrote:
> Hunter <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > I got the idea to do this while defending Star Trek from someone
> > ragging on it. Okay, lets all compare Star Trek: The Next Generation's
> > Security Chief Lt. Natasha Yar and BSG's Capt. Kara Thrace by people
> > who have seen both series. (If I have to tell you who Natasha Yar was
> > or who Kara Thrace is you are ineligable :-) ):
> >
> > Who would win in a fight?
>
> Starbuck. Yar wasn't a wimp, but Starbuck defeated a cylon in hand to
> hand combat.
No she didn't. If you mean while she was fighting the Six in the museum
on Caprica, the Six beat the sh*t out of her. It was only because the
six got so arrogant and dropped her guard playing with the Arrow of
Apollo that Starbuck rammed tackled her. Then they dropped down a floor
through a hole in the floor and the Six landed on her back impaling
herself on a piece of rebar.
>
> > Which is better looking?
>
> Yar.
I think Kara, especially if she looses the moles.
>
> > The more sympathetic.
>
> Yar, because she didn't purposely hurt the good people around her in the
> present.
True
>
> > Who has bigger emotional problems?
>
> Starbuck. Both had traumatic childhoods, but Yar seemed to be mostly
> beyond hers. It only crept up again in intimate relationships with men.
> Starbuck, otoh, has also had the experience of torturing a cylon
> prisoner, being imprisoned by the same cylon and killing him repeatedly,
> being deceived into thinking she had a daughter, then having that
> daughter taken away, etc. She's got major alcohol abuse problems; she's
> made it clear that she WANTS to hurt the people around her. She's a
> train wreck of a human being.
Agreed.
>
> > The better "Bowl Cut" style of hair?
>
> Yar? This one is a non issue for me.
It was a semi joke.
>
> > I think it is an easy answer to all three but I won't prejudice this
> > informal, highly non scientific survey by giving my own. I also concede
> > the more than slight unfairness of the comparison since they were in
> > two different worlds. One structured and supportive world with a bright
> > future despite the skeletons in her closet, the other hostile and
> > dangerous world with skeletons in her closet.
>
> You got that right.
>
> > Also, does anyone think Denise Crosby, who played Yar, would be a great
> > choice to play Starbuck's mother? I think so. I can see her playing the
> > type of mother that would break her daughter Kara's fingers.
>
> There's a creepy idea. I looked up Crosby in the IMDB, and found she
> just turned 49. Holy cow...
Why? Assuming Kara Thrace is the same age as Kate Sackhoff, 26 (Kate
was born on April 8, 1980) if not younger, so I think the 49 year old
Denise Crosby could play her mother. She would had had Kara when she
was 23. Considering the deprived background Kara had it would be
perfectly believable for her mother to have had her when she was say
15. That would make any perspective actress that would play her mother
41 years old.
---->Hunter
glassman
"Hunter" <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1165852351.8...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> ragging on it. Okay, lets all compare Star Trek: The Next
My fighting money goes on Yar. She's kicked ass both men and women in
martial arts style. Starbuck is a sore loser and a cheater that kicks in a
boxing match when she's behind. A young Yar compares favorably in good
looks and sex appeal. As far as emotional issues, Starbuck is in a class by
herself.
--
JK Sinrod
www.SinrodStudios.com
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com
Preacher
A fully sentient robot who apparently continued to have a thing for her
long after she was gone. She did better in that relationship than she
would've done with many HUMAN males.
warstarcerberus
the hottest stick in the fleet was sheba and the hottest girl was
miri[audrey lander's]
in star trek the green skin slave girl looked hot too as for your
question.
tasha would stump a mud hole in fem-buck and i'd don't think you would
want to get her big buddy worf mad at you.
fleeing the destoryed colony's, the last battle fleet [lucky 13] led by
the mighty warstarcerberus leads her 420 ship's like a big momma gator
portecting her young till they find earth
or--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the planet of tanked nurses in a pinch!!.:cool:
--
warstarcerberus
somewhere,DEEP IN UNCHARTED SPACE the last warstar;CERBERUS':turbo:
lead's the remain's of a once proud people on a lonely,lonely quest.
for the lost 13th tribe of mankind :giveup: and earth OR THE PLANET OF
REALLY TANKED LAP DANCING NURSE'S IN A PINCH??:welcome:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
warstarcerberus's Profile: http://www.coolscifi.com/forums/member.php?userid=531
View this thread: http://www.coolscifi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113780
Hunter
warstarcerberus wrote:
> the hottest stick in the fleet was sheba
Wrong BSG.
--->Hunter
EvilBill
Despite the fact that for her it was just an embarrassing drunken
one-night stand? <g>
Preacher
Sorry. I didn't communicate very clearly on that one.
What's creepy to me is that Denise Crosby is already 49. I couldn't
believe it when I saw it. Guess I've been living in the past. But I
don't have a problem with her as Starbuck's mom.
Preacher
> Preacher wrote:
> > Lord Vader III <lord.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Don't forget Yar had sex with a robot.
> >
> > A fully sentient robot who apparently continued to have a thing for
> > her long after she was gone. She did better in that relationship than
> > she would've done with many HUMAN males.
>
> Despite the fact that for her it was just an embarrassing drunken
> one-night stand? <g>
Sad, ain't it?
EvilBill
Certainly doesn't say much for her interpersonal skills <g>
MarkRRose
Mark
Zombie Elvis
wrote:
>I got the idea to do this while defending Star Trek from someone
>ragging on it. Okay, lets all compare Star Trek: The Next Generation's
>Security Chief Lt. Natasha Yar and BSG's Capt. Kara Thrace by people
>who have seen both series. (If I have to tell you who Natasha Yar was
>or who Kara Thrace is you are ineligable :-) ):
>
>Who would win in a fight?
>
Kara has been stranded on a moon with an unbreathable atmosphere and
survived by cutting out a Cylon Raider's brain and riding said Raider
home. She's faced a Cylon in a life or death struggle and lived to
gloat over her impaled gorpse. She was kidnapped and held by a Cylon
for months and managed to pass the time by repeatedly murdering the
him every time she felt like it -- and he liked it. She stabbed
another Cylon to death with a shard of glass and beat another to death
with a fire extinguisher.
Tasha bumped uglies with an android and was killed by a sentient oil
slick.
Round one goes to Starbuck.
>Which is better looking?
Kara. Tasha's hair always made her look too boyish while Kara has
always managed to retain an air of femininity.
>
>The more sympathetic.
>
Tasha lived under constant fear of being gang-raped as a child and
emerged with a gruff but otherwise likeable demeanor.
Kara lived in fear of her abusive mother as a child and emerged with a
badly damaged, self-destructive personality.
Tasha wins this one.
>Who has bigger emotional problems?
Not even a contest. Tasha was far more well-adjusted than anyone
growing up under her background had a right to be while Kara is an
emotionally crippled wreck. Kara wins this one by a mile.
>
>The better "Bowl Cut" style of hair?
Kara. See my answer to question two.
>
>I think it is an easy answer to all three but I won't prejudice this
>informal, highly non scientific survey by giving my own. I also concede
>the more than slight unfairness of the comparison since they were in
>two different worlds. One structured and supportive world with a bright
>future despite the skeletons in her closet, the other hostile and
>dangerous world with skeletons in her closet.
>
>Also, does anyone think Denise Crosby, who played Yar, would be a great
>choice to play Starbuck's mother? I think so. I can see her playing the
>type of mother that would break her daughter Kara's fingers.
>
No.
--
Cause, really, nothing says "I'm a counter culture
rebel, fighting the establishment" like an Aibo on
a skateboard.
- Seen on Slashdot
Roberto Castillo
roberto...@ameritech.net
Preacher
> I have trouble visualizing Kara Thrace getting eaten by a tar monster.
The worst death of a main character in any of the Star Trek serieses.
Completely pointless.
Hunter
OrionCA wrote:
---
Seven years on TV and for five of those years being the highest rated
syndicated show and it ended at near the hight of its popularity by the
producers and not canceled; nine movies, two other TV Treks directly
related to it, three counting "Enterprise" (that takes place about two
hundred years in Picard's past is because I don't necessarily say it is
directly related to TNG like Voy and DS9 was) and still it is loved by
fans every where say you are wrong. I hope BSG does just as well.
--->Hunter
Preacher
> On 12 Dec 2006 05:04:05 -0800, "Hunter" <buffh...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >OrionCA wrote:
> >> On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 04:25:27 GMT, no...@way.com (Preacher) wrote:
> >>
> >> >MarkRRose <MRose...@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I have trouble visualizing Kara Thrace getting eaten by a tar monster.
> >> >
> >> >The worst death of a main character in any of the Star Trek serieses.
> >> >Completely pointless.
> >>
> >> So was the series.
> >---
> >Seven years on TV
>
> So was "Three's Company"; hardly the pinnacle of art and culture on
> television.
Way to snip the salient parts of the argument. Sophistry 101.
Bringing it back on-topic for the BSG newsgroup, I don't really know why
BSG fans feel a need to disparage Star Trek. I can see why one would
prefer one or the other, but I just don't get the strong reaction of
some BSG fans. Wouldn't it be enough for BSG to be what you're hoping
for? Why bother talking about Trek or anything else being pointless?
EvilBill
Same reason Star Trek and Star Wars fans sometimes disparage each other:
because they've got nothing better to do. ;)
Preacher
Andrew Kerr
I may be wrong, but was that not the ONLY death of a main character in a
Star Trek series? Data dies in one of the movies and Wesley morphs into
the great unknown or something, but did any of the characters actually
die during the series? Perhaps on DS9, I didn't see the last couple seasons.
Andrew
EvilBill
Chekov died in a TOS ep and Spock died in ST2, but both deaths were
temporary. <g>
Jadzia Dax died in the finale of DS9's sixth season and in s4 of Voyager
Kes mutated into some sort of being of energy and buggered off to
explore the universe. Kinda like some sort of fast-evolving Vorlon. ;)
David B
> I got the idea to do this while defending Star Trek from someone
> ragging on it. Okay, lets all compare Star Trek: The Next Generation's
> Security Chief Lt. Natasha Yar and BSG's Capt. Kara Thrace by people
> who have seen both series. (If I have to tell you who Natasha Yar was
> or who Kara Thrace is you are ineligable :-) ):
>
> Who would win in a fight?
>
Starbuck
>
> Which is better looking?
>
Starbuck
>
> The more sympathetic.
>
Yar
> Who has bigger emotional problems?
>
Starbuck
> The better "Bowl Cut" style of hair?
>
Starbuck
> Also, does anyone think Denise Crosby, who played Yar, would be a great
> choice to play Starbuck's mother? I think so. I can see her playing the
> type of mother that would break her daughter Kara's fingers.
Only if she could act which IMO she can't.
Preacher
> Tasha Yar also "died" during the first season in a duel but Beverly
> Crusher pronounced her dead, then revived her, iirc.
That was a much more meaningful death than the oil slick that finally
got her. Of course, she later returned as a half-Romulan character - her
own daughter, no less.
> The TNG writers made it a point to break the "Red Shirt" curse in the
> new series. They went agonizingly out of their way not to kill any
> characters, major or minor, except in Denise Crosby's case. They did
> kill Spock's father off but that was off-camera and due to natural
> causes.
Is that really true - Yar (and Sarek off screen) was the only character
in all of TNG to die? That seems incredible, and is a major contrast to
BSG, with regulars seemingly dropping like flies Ellen, Kat, Billy,
Jammer...
Btw, Ellen's death was poignant. Jammer's was remarkably callous. Kat's
was supposedly heroic, but felt kind of hollow to me. And Billy's was a
Yar-like death, iirc. Did he step in to protect D or someone else, or
did he just get shot and die?
EvilBill
>
> Is that really true - Yar (and Sarek off screen) was the only
> character in all of TNG to die? That seems incredible, and is a major
> contrast to BSG, with regulars seemingly dropping like flies Ellen,
> Kat, Billy, Jammer...
>
No, there were various other deaths (mostly off-screen and a few
redshirts). At least 18 died in "Q Who?" when the Borg ship sliced a
section out of the saucer, for example.
Preacher
> Preacher wrote:
> >
> > Is that really true - Yar (and Sarek off screen) was the only
> > character in all of TNG to die? That seems incredible, and is a major
> > contrast to BSG, with regulars seemingly dropping like flies Ellen,
> > Kat, Billy, Jammer...
> >
>
> No, there were various other deaths (mostly off-screen and a few
> redshirts). At least 18 died in "Q Who?" when the Borg ship sliced a
> section out of the saucer, for example.
I'm remembering that Ensign Cito also died, in "Lower Decks". It's
really sad that I remember the title of the episode, though it WAS a
good one.
RuPEDski
"Preacher" <no...@way.com> wrote in message
news:1hq8d6t.y4obb5s5bz1xN%no...@way.com...
> OrionCA <Ori...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> On 12 Dec 2006 05:04:05 -0800, "Hunter" <buffh...@my-deja.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >OrionCA wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 04:25:27 GMT, no...@way.com (Preacher) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >MarkRRose <MRose...@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I have trouble visualizing Kara Thrace getting eaten by a tar
>> >> >> monster.
>> >> >
>> >> >The worst death of a main character in any of the Star Trek serieses.
>> >> >Completely pointless.
>> >>
>> >> So was the series.
>> >---
>> >Seven years on TV
>>
>> So was "Three's Company"; hardly the pinnacle of art and culture on
>> television.
>
> Way to snip the salient parts of the argument. Sophistry 101.
>
> Bringing it back on-topic for the BSG newsgroup, I don't really know why
> BSG fans feel a need to disparage Star Trek.
I only gave BSG a continued chance after not being all that impressed by the
initial "movie" because of Moore's work in Star Trek!
RuPEDski
"Andrew Kerr" <apk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cmFfh.53936$Qm2....@read1.cgocable.net...
I can't think of other main character deaths in the series(Spock and Data in
the movies of course), but a number of notable supporting characters spring
to mind, Legat Dumar, Kai Winn, Vedek Beraille, Admiral Forest, Lieutenant
Eddington, Ziyal, Kai Opaka, Lieutenant Suter.....others I'm sure......hmmm,
lol...apparently the worst series to be a supporting character in is DS9!
Kweeg
... and so badly named. A show about junior officers, hardly the "lower
decks." But then again what does one expect from a show that calls the
crew's "periods of duty" (on the bridge, engineering etc) shifts instead of
watches.
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"
Citroen
Most of the Trek main characters die from time to time. Yar is simply
in a small club of Trek characters who were not brought back
immediately via restoring the transporter buffer, time travel, the
parting actions of a god-like entity, encountering an alternative
quantum universe, the magical efforts of the chief medical officer, or
technobabling the technobable of the technobable. I believe Voyager
had a Cardasian agent who was not immediately brought back (when she
was wasn't it as a computer program?). And of course Mr. Data was lost
forever in that whatever-they-call-it movie that wasn't worth seeing.
Enterprise has Trip and perhaps a few others.
> Btw, Ellen's death was poignant. Jammer's was remarkably callous. Kat's
> was supposedly heroic, but felt kind of hollow to me. And Billy's was a
> Yar-like death, iirc. Did he step in to protect D or someone else, or
> did he just get shot and die?
I think he stepped in to impress Dee. He was trying to be a hero and
got himself killed.
-Citroen
bllbickel
Preacher wrote:
>
> Is that really true - Yar (and Sarek off screen) was the only character
> in all of TNG to die? That seems incredible, and is a major contrast to
> BSG, with regulars seemingly dropping like flies Ellen, Kat, Billy,
> Jammer...
On the other hand Yar was a major actress-on-the-opening-credits
character, which wasn't true for Ellen, Kat, Billy, Jammer...
Bill Bickel
http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com
http://www.crimepundit.com
Andrew Kerr
> "Preacher" <no...@way.com> wrote in message
> news:1hqatnb.1tft4iecpqd4lN%no...@way.com...
>> EvilBill <quake...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Preacher wrote:
>>>> Is that really true - Yar (and Sarek off screen) was the only
>>>> character in all of TNG to die? That seems incredible, and is a major
>>>> contrast to BSG, with regulars seemingly dropping like flies Ellen,
>>>> Kat, Billy, Jammer...
>>>>
>>> No, there were various other deaths (mostly off-screen and a few
>>> redshirts). At least 18 died in "Q Who?" when the Borg ship sliced a
>>> section out of the saucer, for example.
>> I'm remembering that Ensign Cito also died, in "Lower Decks". It's
>> really sad that I remember the title of the episode, though it WAS a
>> good one.
>
> ... and so badly named. A show about junior officers, hardly the "lower
> decks." But then again what does one expect from a show that calls the
> crew's "periods of duty" (on the bridge, engineering etc) shifts instead of
> watches.
That was a good episode. One of the things about TNG that bugged me (I
didn't really watch the other ones) was that pretty much anyone who ever
accomplished anything was an officer of some sort. Other than O'Brien,
who was a Chief Petty Officer, there appeared to be no enlisted
personnel or NCO's of any consequence. I'm assuming the Red Shirts of
the old series were enlisted men, but it seemed that the lowest rank
anyone in TNG had was Ensign. Wesley Crusher doesn't count.
Andrew
Dillon Pyron
I think Billy took one for D. She may have played him off, but he
definitely still had a thing for her.
--
dillon
Aim n Flame, the official lighter of Usenet
Dillon Pyron
>Hunter wrote:
>
>> I got the idea to do this while defending Star Trek from someone
>> ragging on it. Okay, lets all compare Star Trek: The Next Generation's
>> Security Chief Lt. Natasha Yar and BSG's Capt. Kara Thrace by people
>> who have seen both series. (If I have to tell you who Natasha Yar was
>> or who Kara Thrace is you are ineligable :-) ):
>>
>> Who would win in a fight?
>>
>
>Starbuck
>
>>
>> Which is better looking?
>>
>
>Starbuck
Who's been in Playboy?
>
>>
>> The more sympathetic.
>>
>
>Yar
>
>> Who has bigger emotional problems?
>>
>
>Starbuck
>
>> The better "Bowl Cut" style of hair?
>>
>
>Starbuck
>
>> Also, does anyone think Denise Crosby, who played Yar, would be a great
>> choice to play Starbuck's mother? I think so. I can see her playing the
>> type of mother that would break her daughter Kara's fingers.
>
>Only if she could act which IMO she can't.
Tim McGaughy
Hunter wrote:
> I got the idea to do this while defending Star Trek from someone
> ragging on it. Okay, lets all compare Star Trek: The Next Generation's
> Security Chief Lt. Natasha Yar and BSG's Capt. Kara Thrace by people
> who have seen both series. (If I have to tell you who Natasha Yar was
> or who Kara Thrace is you are ineligable :-) ):
>
> Who would win in a fight?
Kara is far and away the more muscular. I'd go with her.
> Which is better looking?
Hard to say. Doesn't matter much, though, cuz after the fight they'll
both look like lumps of bloody and shapeless meat that's been whacked
with a tenderizer for 8 hours straight. The only people they'd be
attractive to would be Worf, Leoben, and a small assortment of other
people with Violent Female fetishes.
> The more sympathetic.
Not sure what you're asking for.
> Who has bigger emotional problems?
That would be Kara. She hasn't dealt with most of her major issues. Yar
has at least tried.
> The better "Bowl Cut" style of hair?
There is no good bowl cut.
Tim McGaughy
I think that WAS the point.
Roddenberry deliberately had her die abruptly and for no reason. He felt
it would be interesting to show a death that mirrored real life for once.
Hunter
Preacher wrote:
> OrionCA <Ori...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:41:27 -0500, Andrew Kerr <apk...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Preacher wrote:
> > >> MarkRRose <MRose...@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I have trouble visualizing Kara Thrace getting eaten by a tar monster.
> > >>
> > >> The worst death of a main character in any of the Star Trek serieses.
> > >> Completely pointless.
> > >
> > >I may be wrong, but was that not the ONLY death of a main character in a
> > >Star Trek series? Data dies in one of the movies and Wesley morphs into
> > >the great unknown or something, but did any of the characters actually
> > >die during the series? Perhaps on DS9, I didn't see the last couple seasons.
> >
> > Tasha Yar also "died" during the first season in a duel but Beverly
> > Crusher pronounced her dead, then revived her, iirc.
>
> That was a much more meaningful death than the oil slick that finally
> got her. Of course, she later returned as a half-Romulan character - her
> own daughter, no less.
In an alternate time line, the one in which the Federation was at war
with the Klingon Empire in "Yesterday's Enterprise" The Alternative Yar
joined the Enterprise-C in the normal TNG universe, which was fighting
the Romulans at the time it crossed over into the alternate time
line/universe. After the Enterprise-C defeat at the hands of the
Romulans Tasha Yar was captured and then held by a Romulan officer. She
later had a baby by him and tried to escape with her child. Her child,
not knowing any better and because her mother was taking her from all
she knew and love, raised the alarm, causing her mother to be killed by
the escape attempt. Her daughter, played by Crosby, grew up to be one
of the few blond headed Romulan commanders. So in both instances Tasha
Yar died, it is just that the second death is a little more reasonable
and meaningful.
>
> > The TNG writers made it a point to break the "Red Shirt" curse in the
> > new series. They went agonizingly out of their way not to kill any
> > characters, major or minor, except in Denise Crosby's case. They did
> > kill Spock's father off but that was off-camera and due to natural
> > causes.
>
> Is that really true - Yar (and Sarek off screen) was the only character
> in all of TNG to die? That seems incredible, and is a major contrast to
> BSG, with regulars seemingly dropping like flies Ellen, Kat, Billy,
> Jammer...
Well, it is the nature of the show. It shows how the two are so
different and why it is often unfair to compare the two or to say one
is better than the other because the differences and outlooks are so
great. One built on forward optimism and a bright future, the other
grief and tragedy. It is why the "Star Trek" franchise has been so
popular over the last 40 years and BSG will not be. That is not a slam
since I love them both, but people love uplifting things to be a fan
off. Death is not very popular, either of individuals or nearly the
entire human race. "Star Wars" is also based on optimism and hope and
subsequently has comparatively few deaths, more than in the "Star Trek"
franchise, but much less than in the BSG universe.
>
> Btw, Ellen's death was poignant. Jammer's was remarkably callous. Kat's
> was supposedly heroic, but felt kind of hollow to me.
Kat's death was a semi suicide. Maybe that is why.
>
> And Billy's was a Yar-like death, iirc. Did he step in to protect D or someone else, or
> did he just get shot and die?
No, Billy died saving or trying to save someone, so his death was far
more meaningful than Tasha Yar's. Maybe only a little more meaningful
than Alternative Yar who had a daughter.
--->Hunter
Hunter
EvilBill wrote:
> Preacher wrote:
> >
> > Is that really true - Yar (and Sarek off screen) was the only
> > character in all of TNG to die? That seems incredible, and is a major
> > contrast to BSG, with regulars seemingly dropping like flies Ellen,
> > Kat, Billy, Jammer...
> >
>
> No, there were various other deaths (mostly off-screen and a few
> redshirts). At least 18 died in "Q Who?" when the Borg ship sliced a
> section out of the saucer, for example.
---
they were faceless "Red Shirts" a phrase coined by "Star Trek", for
charcters marked for death to advance the plot. Almost no one that we
the audience cared about died during the run of any "Star Trek" show.
Yar was one of the few exceptions. Sarek died but he was a guest
character (but still the death of Spock's father cause great sadness).
Data died in the last movie.
------>Hunter
Hunter
Why are you sad that you remember an episode title? If you read a book
that you liked would you be sad for remembering it's title? Don't by
into the thought that something is wrong with you if you care enough
about a TV show that you remember "trivial" details.
--->Hunter
Hunter
Kweeg wrote:
> "Preacher" <no...@way.com> wrote in message
> news:1hqatnb.1tft4iecpqd4lN%no...@way.com...
> > EvilBill <quake...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Preacher wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Is that really true - Yar (and Sarek off screen) was the only
> > > > character in all of TNG to die? That seems incredible, and is a major
> > > > contrast to BSG, with regulars seemingly dropping like flies Ellen,
> > > > Kat, Billy, Jammer...
> > > >
> > >
> > > No, there were various other deaths (mostly off-screen and a few
> > > redshirts). At least 18 died in "Q Who?" when the Borg ship sliced a
> > > section out of the saucer, for example.
> >
> > I'm remembering that Ensign Cito also died, in "Lower Decks". It's
> > really sad that I remember the title of the episode, though it WAS a
> > good one.
>
> ... and so badly named. A show about junior officers, hardly the "lower
> decks." But then again what does one expect from a show that calls the
> crew's "periods of duty" (on the bridge, engineering etc) shifts instead of
> watches.
> --
Now you are being nit picky. The writers were taking poetic license
---->Hunter
Fozzi
"Hunter" <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1166098566.8...@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
Hear, Hear!, well put Hunter
cheers
Fozzi
Kweeg
Indeed. TOS usually had non 20 something people in the background that
looked like they might be career NCOs. Kirks security man in Mirror Mirror
comes to mind.
Of course in TNGs time that would be frowned upon as everyone is doing their
best and living their dreams so they became officers. Probably also why we
only see 20 something beautifully people as crewmembers. Sounds like a
another flawed Roddemberry idea that TPTB held on to like holy gospel. When
one asks themselves "what would Gene do?" one thinks make up some PC reason
for why they do something that might ignore (or be somewhat dubious of) what
was previously on screen but that's OK cause it's your show.
Kweeg
Poetic licence I can see, but it doesn't make up for the writers having no
f-ing idea.
EvilBill
> Preacher wrote:
>>
>> I'm remembering that Ensign Cito also died, in "Lower Decks". It's
>> really sad that I remember the title of the episode, though it WAS a
>> good one.
> ---
> Why are you sad that you remember an episode title? If you read a book
> that you liked would you be sad for remembering it's title? Don't by
> into the thought that something is wrong with you if you care enough
> about a TV show that you remember "trivial" details.
>
Hell, I can remember almost every TNG ep title *in order*.
(However, I do have a near-photographic memory. <g>)
EvilBill
>
> Indeed. TOS usually had non 20 something people in the background that
> looked like they might be career NCOs. Kirks security man in Mirror
> Mirror comes to mind.
> Of course in TNGs time that would be frowned upon as everyone is
> doing their best and living their dreams so they became officers.
> Probably also why we only see 20 something beautifully people as
> crewmembers.
I saw a few older ones walking around the ship in a few eps. OK, not
many, but you can fanwank that away by saying that in TNG's time people
age a lot slower anyway. (McCoy was 137 in the pilot and didn't look a
day over 80, after all... <g>)
I figure most people would rather go to the Academy and get their shot
at eventually becoming a starship captain. ;)
Kweeg
news:4udeerF...@mid.individual.net...
> Kweeg wrote:
> >
> > Indeed. TOS usually had non 20 something people in the background that
> > looked like they might be career NCOs. Kirks security man in Mirror
> > Mirror comes to mind.
> > Of course in TNGs time that would be frowned upon as everyone is
> > doing their best and living their dreams so they became officers.
> > Probably also why we only see 20 something beautifully people as
> > crewmembers.
>
> I saw a few older ones walking around the ship in a few eps. OK, not
> many, but you can fanwank that away by saying that in TNG's time people
> age a lot slower anyway. (McCoy was 137 in the pilot and didn't look a
> day over 80, after all... <g>)
>
> I figure most people would rather go to the Academy and get their shot
> at eventually becoming a starship captain. ;)
Sure but *most* people would not make a good starship captain. Oh sorry we
*are* talking TNG, where even the physician and the physiatrist can become a
starship captain. Must not be anything to it.
Preacher
> Hunter wrote:
> > Preacher wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm remembering that Ensign Cito also died, in "Lower Decks". It's
> >> really sad that I remember the title of the episode, though it WAS a
> >> good one.
> > ---
> > Why are you sad that you remember an episode title? If you read a book
> > that you liked would you be sad for remembering it's title? Don't by
> > into the thought that something is wrong with you if you care enough
> > about a TV show that you remember "trivial" details.
> >
>
> Hell, I can remember almost every TNG ep title *in order*.
> (However, I do have a near-photographic memory. <g>)
Okay, I was embarrassed by my knowledge, but I'm frightened by yours...
(-:
EvilBill
LOL... I suspect you could ask me pretty much anything about Trek (or,
for that matter, ancient Egypt, the early history of the personal
computer, and Pascal programming) and get a reasnably accurate answer.
<g>
zYgor of Phlox
Hunter wrote:
>
> I got the idea to do this while defending Star Trek from someone
> ragging on it. Okay, lets all compare Star Trek: The Next Generation's
> Security Chief Lt. Natasha Yar and BSG's Capt. Kara Thrace by people
> who have seen both series. (If I have to tell you who Natasha Yar was
> or who Kara Thrace is you are ineligable :-) ):
>
> Who would win in a fight?
>
> Which is better looking?
>
> The more sympathetic.
>
> Who has bigger emotional problems?
>
> The better "Bowl Cut" style of hair?
<...>
> Hunter
Having made love to both of these lovelies with my tentacles, I assure
earthling and cyborg alike that Tasha Yar was far more accepting of our
physical differences. Starbuck was polite but kind of seemed disgusted
in the sack...even after bonking the ratman Baltar. Well, who can
explain tastes?
Sincerely, zYgor of Phlox
Ken from Chicago
>I got the idea to do this while defending Star Trek from someone
> ragging on it. Okay, lets all compare Star Trek: The Next Generation's
> Security Chief Lt. Natasha Yar and BSG's Capt. Kara Thrace by people
> who have seen both series. (If I have to tell you who Natasha Yar was
> or who Kara Thrace is you are ineligable :-) ):
>
> Who would win in a fight?
Kara, she'd cheat.
> Which is better looking?
Kara, she let's her hair grow out.
> The more sympathetic.
Tasha has fewer "issues" so its easier to sympathize in a way, tho Kara with
more issues is easier to pity.
> Who has bigger emotional problems?
Kara, hands down.
> The better "Bowl Cut" style of hair?
Tie.
> I think it is an easy answer to all three but I won't prejudice this
> informal, highly non scientific survey by giving my own. I also concede
> the more than slight unfairness of the comparison since they were in
> two different worlds. One structured and supportive world with a bright
> future despite the skeletons in her closet, the other hostile and
> dangerous world with skeletons in her closet.
>
> Also, does anyone think Denise Crosby, who played Yar, would be a great
> choice to play Starbuck's mother? I think so. I can see her playing the
> type of mother that would break her daughter Kara's fingers.
>
> --->Hunter
-- Ken from Chicago
OSbandito
> > Okay, I was embarrassed by my knowledge, but I'm frightened by
> > yours... (-:
<...>
EvilBill's memory banks responded with:
> LOL... I suspect you could ask me pretty much anything about Trek (or,
> for that matter, ancient Egypt, the early history of the personal
> computer, and Pascal programming) and get a reasnably accurate answer.
> <g>
Don't forget, after you answer their third question, you'll be required
to bring back a shrubbery.
EvilBill
Followed by a herring tree-chopping contest, no doubt ;)
80 Knight
news:4580E84...@ispwest.com...
>>>I have trouble visualizing Kara Thrace getting eaten by a tar monster.
>>
>>
>> The worst death of a main character in any of the Star Trek serieses.
>> Completely pointless.
>
> I think that WAS the point.
>
> Roddenberry deliberately had her die abruptly and for no reason. He felt
> it would be interesting to show a death that mirrored real life for once.
Actually, Denise Crosby (Natasha Yar) decided to leave the show to pursue a
movie career. Denise has stated in interviews that she did have a contract,
but she was granted permission to leave by Gene himself. As for the episode,
it was written by Joseph Stefano, and though Yar's death was rather
pointless, the ending 'living will' segment was, IMHO, very emotional.
CatPanDaddy
"OrionCA" <Ori...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:m7qun2lv2bmnhv2sa...@4ax.com...
>
> Tasha Yar also "died" during the first season in a duel but Beverly
> Crusher pronounced her dead, then revived her, iirc.
>
Not quite. It was her opponent who "died", and was revived; this consequently
freed the opponent of any obligation to Lutan, the turban-wearing soundalike for
the 7Up tv guy in the mid-80s. "Crisp and clean, and NO VACCINE! Ehrm... no
/caffeine/." Egads, that was a warmed over Kirk-era series ep. Even had
soundalike music from Fred Steiner.
Okay, now my trivia knowledge is scaring me!
--
No One
Yeah...and what a great career it was too.....
80 Knight
news:m79964-...@gandalf.greycorner.com...
True, very true. However, I actually saw an interview with Crosby a couple
of days ago, where they were telling her that "Yesterday's Enterprise" was
usually most fan's favorite TNG episode, to which Crosby replied "I always
knew I would have to die on Star Trek in order to come back big". Because of
that, she also became Sela.
Rocinante
Eh, according to IMDB, she has had steady work since Star Trek, and not
withstanding the embarrassing "Pet Sematary" where her 3 year old son
manages to have the strength to hang her from the ceiling.
--
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first, and call whatever you hit
the target."
Rocinante...@gmail.com
12/29/2006 3:48:08 AM