From the mouth of Ozzy
J.
On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, Vic Kevlar wrote:
> If I were reasonable all the time, I'd be boring. >|-D As for being
> inescapably intelligent, logic is on your side in this particular
> argument. ;) Anyway, I also want to point out that it wasn't the
> *water*, but I wouldn't rule anything else out at this point. :)
Whatever it is, must be pretty good stuff. When you're finished, bring me
some.
[...]
> > There has to be an interest,
> > no matter how small, to start with. Else the Jihad can't be expected to
> > cultivate any further interest. We're not equipped for that.
>
> There is something I have found to be true of any two conflicting ideas,
> opinions, or theories and the people who have them; if the individual
> or group you are talking to doesn't want to hear what you have to say
> when you are saying it, or has no intentions from the outset of taking
> what you say seriously, there is no point in having the discussion.
> It wastes everyone's time.
"Never teach a pig to march, it wastes your time and annoys the pig."
This is true, but...
> For anyone who is willing to listen and
> understand (not even necassarily willing to agree, but willing to
> listen and understand...) then any such discussions are a benefit to
> all who participate and/or listen to them.
Yeah, but I can remember a time when I thought B'Harnii wasn't worth
talking about. There was even a later time when I felt like there was
something to say, but I hadn't thought about it much. I benefitted from
what other folks in the Jihad had already thought out, and in turn, it
helped me formulate my own informed opinion.
This isn't to say that I copied what someone else thought. There's a lot
of little nitpicky things that I can and have argued about with other
Jihaddi. It wouldn't make any difference to go into them now, since
there's one thing I won't argue with: B'Harnii's gotta go.
> Personally, I do what I do regardless of what
> everyone around me is doing, and I was thinking that way when I wrote
> the article you are referring to. Anyone who wants to post something, or
> even mail something, about their RL experiences will get no complaints
> from me, but might get encouragement...
I didn't think you were discouraging anyone, and actually, this was just
one little point among many that you'd brought up.
I remember Owsen telling me about a post he made way back inna day...
when he was working his 'day job' at Wally World, and got the job of
making a display using Wyrm plushes.
He took a needle and twine, skewered 'em through the neck, and hung 'em
from the ceiling. :oD Now if *everyone* could have that kinda fun at
their blue-collar job...
This is just one of the little tidbits of RL exploits I had in mind when
I started this thread. :o> Didn't wanna leave anything out.
> For lack of anything better to add to this, yeah. ;)
> I don't think anyone really has anything to prove, though, so I don't think
> the detail is really necessary, tho. Besides, there are those of us who
> could check up on the validity of such claims, anyway. :)
Right. :o> The detail as I said elsewhere shouldn't be used to pump up
the poster's perceived status, 'cause we're more likely to see right
through it. Or as you say, there isn't anything to prove -- or at least
nothing that hasn't been proven already. The reason I think telling about
RL stuff is important is simply that sometimes it's interesting to read,
and can give some insight into a person's attitude/motivation. Especially
useful for new people.
> It's almost scary when good ideas come out of nowhere... >|-D
Hey, this ain't nowhere... it's just in our heads.
> ::Ozzy The Feral (NYAR!), Maenad of the Holy Albino::----========
> ======----::Legion Commander IronMan, Dir. Intel & Sp Ops., LoD::
> *** Legion of Doom Page: http://www.concentric.net/~x5150/lod/ **
> ------------------Email: x5...@concentric.net--------------------
J. FoxGlov xd$@# Admiral and 2nd-in-C, TRES Corps, Alpha CO
:xzd@$$$X 4th Praetor of the Jihad to Destroy B*rn*y (ret.)
:xueWR*#" 9$$: Hanover the Feral (NYAR!) of the Maenads o'tHA
mN$**"" t$$! Mongoose's Bro _________________ ________
<@$$! Sage: |____JFoxGlov_____|=|___OJP__|
d$$$ JFoxGlov on FurryMUCK/IRC/nearly everywhere else
eW@$$*"""~%hiL.d$$$ "..already in my mind Our language becomes freighted
#$$$$$$$knmm@@@***#*7$; with a richness No common tongue could offer"
~###~ `%%L -W.S. Merwin, as quoted by Joan Didion
(14x2) TRESWeb: $@#* http://www.infinet.com/~cybrpyro/Jihad/TRES
<All unsolicited commercial email will be subject to a $200 archival fee.>
FCode1.2 FC~Fp2aA--C+D--H++PRT++M+ZSm# RLJ a cmu d+ e+ f+ h+ i++ h+ p- sm#
Vic Kevlar
J. wrote:
>
> Something Ozzy has recently said in the midst of a very lengthy recent
> post caught my eye:
>
> > Listen. Plenty of us do what we can RL. It would be silly
> > to record every last little thing we do on this NG, because nobody,
> > including me, want's to hear about every last little thing. As long as
> > it's taken care of, screw publicity.
>
> First of all, I associate some validity to this statement, partly because
> I know Ozzy to be a reasonably intelligent person. Reasonable when he
> wants to be, and inescapably intelligent. :o> I'm not entirely sure
> myself what substance in the Cleveland water supply caused him to be so
> 'accomodating' (to use his term,) but to be perfectly honest, it was
> inspiring.
If I were reasonable all the time, I'd be boring. >|-D As for being
inescapably intelligent, logic is on your side in this particular
argument. ;) Anyway, I also want to point out that it wasn't the
*water*, but I wouldn't rule anything else out at this point. :)
>
> In addition to that validity, I do assign some validity to the 'screw
> publicity' sentiment. To a point. For the most part, the Jihad focuses
> its efforts of conversation and presentation towards those already
> willing to receive it. Saves time that way. There has to be an interest,
> no matter how small, to start with. Else the Jihad can't be expected to
> cultivate any further interest. We're not equipped for that.
There is something I have found to be true of any two conflicting ideas,
opinions, or theories and the people who have them; if the individual
or group you are talking to doesn't want to hear what you have to say
when you are saying it, or has no intentions from the outset of taking
what you say seriously, there is no point in having the discussion.
It wastes everyone's time. For anyone who is willing to listen and
understand (not even necassarily willing to agree, but willing to
listen and understand...) then any such discussions are a benefit to
all who participate and/or listen to them.
>
> However, there is something to be said for some publicity. Not in the
> flashy sense, but in the simple presentation sense. Even those of us who
> are really interested need something to see every once in a while. Even
> those who have a great track record of taking initiative and *doing*
> something rather than talking around it need something to remind
> themselves of their own Ethos.
I won't argue with this. I hadn't thought about it, really, but there's
something to be said here. Personally, I do what I do regardless of
what
everyone around me is doing, and I was thinking that way when I wrote
the
article you are referring to. Anyone who wants to post something, or
even mail something, about their RL experiences will get no complaints
from me, but might get encouragement...
>
> I think that maybe it wouldn't be such a bad deal for those of us, when
> we get something useful out of RL efforts against B'Harnii, to tell the
> rest of the people here. Sure, there'd be a degree of skepticism
> associated with it ("How are we supposed to know that really happened?")
> but maybe that could be minimized with a detailed description of what
> happened.
For lack of anything better to add to this, yeah. ;)
I don't think anyone really has anything to prove, though, so I don't
think
the detail is really necessary, tho. Besides, there are those of us who
could check up on the validity of such claims, anyway. :)
>
> In the very least, the rest of us would know. There wouldn't be much
> glamour in the post, but those who really know the Jihad and how it works
> know there never really is much. Folks should do things because they want
> B'Harnii dead, not because it'll make them look good. Folks should tell
> this group about it, 'cause well, sometimes it can be something worth
> talking about.
Again, for lack of something awe inspiring to add, yeah, I agree. ;)
>
> Sometimes it can even be inspiring for the rest of us temporarily stuck
> in a rut. That can be said for any effort that can be read about here.
>
> I know about that. :o>
It's almost scary when good ideas come out of nowhere... >|-D
>
> J.
--
Vic Kevlar
J. wrote:
>
> On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, Vic Kevlar wrote:
>
> > inescapably intelligent, logic is on your side in this particular
> > argument. ;) Anyway, I also want to point out that it wasn't the
> > *water*, but I wouldn't rule anything else out at this point. :)
>
> some.
I doubt I'll ever be finished, so I'll see about shipping some
anyway... ;)
>
> [...]
> > > There has to be an interest,
> > > no matter how small, to start with. Else the Jihad can't be expected to
> > > cultivate any further interest. We're not equipped for that.
> >
> > There is something I have found to be true of any two conflicting ideas,
> > opinions, or theories and the people who have them; if the individual
> > or group you are talking to doesn't want to hear what you have to say
> > when you are saying it, or has no intentions from the outset of taking
> > what you say seriously, there is no point in having the discussion.
> > It wastes everyone's time.
>
> "Never teach a pig to march, it wastes your time and annoys the pig."
This is almost what I meant, but at the same time, pigs don't choose
not to understand; they just don't. People can make that choice, tho.
>
> This is true, but...
>
> > For anyone who is willing to listen and
> > understand (not even necassarily willing to agree, but willing to
> > listen and understand...) then any such discussions are a benefit to
> > all who participate and/or listen to them.
>
> Yeah, but I can remember a time when I thought B'Harnii wasn't worth
> talking about. There was even a later time when I felt like there was
> something to say, but I hadn't thought about it much. I benefitted from
> what other folks in the Jihad had already thought out, and in turn, it
> helped me formulate my own informed opinion.
I won't argue there. 's kinda what I meant when I tacked the and/or to
the end of that last sentence.
>
> This isn't to say that I copied what someone else thought. There's a lot
> of little nitpicky things that I can and have argued about with other
> Jihaddi. It wouldn't make any difference to go into them now, since
> there's one thing I won't argue with: B'Harnii's gotta go.
Amen.
>
> > Personally, I do what I do regardless of what
> > everyone around me is doing, and I was thinking that way when I wrote
> > the article you are referring to. Anyone who wants to post something, or
> > even mail something, about their RL experiences will get no complaints
> > from me, but might get encouragement...
>
> I didn't think you were discouraging anyone, and actually, this was just
> one little point among many that you'd brought up.
What I was saying, really, is that the worst thing that could happen to
someone who posts their RL accomplishments is that I might encourage
them to keep going. :)
>
> I remember Owsen telling me about a post he made way back inna day...
> when he was working his 'day job' at Wally World, and got the job of
> making a display using Wyrm plushes.
> He took a needle and twine, skewered 'em through the neck, and hung 'em
> from the ceiling. :oD Now if *everyone* could have that kinda fun at
> their blue-collar job...
>
> This is just one of the little tidbits of RL exploits I had in mind when
> I started this thread. :o> Didn't wanna leave anything out.
Directions on just how one gets away with something like that would be
nice... >|-D
>
> > For lack of anything better to add to this, yeah. ;)
> > I don't think anyone really has anything to prove, though, so I don't think
> > the detail is really necessary, tho. Besides, there are those of us who
> > could check up on the validity of such claims, anyway. :)
>
> Right. :o> The detail as I said elsewhere shouldn't be used to pump up
> the poster's perceived status, 'cause we're more likely to see right
> through it. Or as you say, there isn't anything to prove -- or at least
> nothing that hasn't been proven already. The reason I think telling about
> RL stuff is important is simply that sometimes it's interesting to read,
> and can give some insight into a person's attitude/motivation. Especially
> useful for new people.
I have nothing to add here... You hit the nail on the head. I'll just
be sure to drop a word on here next time I accomplish something IRL for
the cause.
>
> > It's almost scary when good ideas come out of nowhere... >|-D
>
> Hey, this ain't nowhere... it's just in our heads.
I'd argue that my head is off somewhere else, but why bother. You
prolly
already knew that. >|-D
> J. FoxGlov xd$@# Admiral and 2nd-in-C, TRES Corps, Alpha CO
> :xzd@$$$X 4th Praetor of the Jihad to Destroy B*rn*y (ret.)
> :xueWR*#" 9$$: Hanover the Feral (NYAR!) of the Maenads o'tHA
> mN$**"" t$$! Mongoose's Bro _________________ ________
> <@$$! Sage: |____JFoxGlov_____|=|___OJP__|
> d$$$ JFoxGlov on FurryMUCK/IRC/nearly everywhere else
> eW@$$*"""~%hiL.d$$$ "..already in my mind Our language becomes freighted
> #$$$$$$$knmm@@@***#*7$; with a richness No common tongue could offer"
> ~###~ `%%L -W.S. Merwin, as quoted by Joan Didion
> (14x2) TRESWeb: $@#* http://www.infinet.com/~cybrpyro/Jihad/TRES
> <All unsolicited commercial email will be subject to a $200 archival fee.>
> FCode1.2 FC~Fp2aA--C+D--H++PRT++M+ZSm# RLJ a cmu d+ e+ f+ h+ i++ h+ p- sm#
--
Tilden Owsen
> > I remember Owsen telling me about a post he made way back inna day...
> > when he was working his 'day job' at Wally World, and got the job of
> > making a display using Wyrm plushes.
> > He took a needle and twine, skewered 'em through the neck, and hung 'em
> > from the ceiling. :oD Now if *everyone* could have that kinda fun at
> > their blue-collar job...
> >
> > This is just one of the little tidbits of RL exploits I had in mind when
> > I started this thread. :o> Didn't wanna leave anything out.
> Directions on just how one gets away with something like that would be
> nice... >|-D
Tilden Owsen