1894 SS Stewart Banjo
kateh
Does anyone know anything about these banjos?
KateH :)
philwilking
finger style use. Do NOT put metal strings on it, it is not built to
withstand the tension of metal strings. Use only silk, gut, or nylon
strings.
--
PHIL WILKING
Those who would exchange freedom for
security deserve neither freedom nor security.
P. Roehling
"kateh" <kat...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:eUC2j.77$DW2...@newsfe06.lga...
> My son was just given an old, open back banjo....1894 SS Stewart.
> Does anyone know anything about these banjos?
> KateH :)
http://www.mugwumps.com/sss_date.htm
kateh
news:9SE2j.17505$K27....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> S.S. Stewart was a well known name at the time. They were intended for
> finger style use. Do NOT put metal strings on it, it is not built to
> withstand the tension of metal strings. Use only silk, gut, or nylon
> strings.
Thanks, I'd heard that. I didn't even know there *was* such a thing as
nylon banjo strings. It has metal strings on it, at the moment.... old
strings, by the twang of them. They're not tight, so I don't think it's in
any real danger (that it hasn't been in for the past 50 years). :)
So, which should it have?
This is new territory for us!
KateH
kateh
news:13km6hi...@corp.supernews.com...
Thanks,
We'll be checking that site out!
KateH :)
P. Roehling
"kateh" <kat...@charter.net> wrote
> Thanks, I'd heard that. I didn't even know there *was* such a thing as
> nylon banjo strings. It has metal strings on it, at the moment.... old
> strings, by the twang of them. They're not tight, so I don't think it's
> in any real danger (that it hasn't been in for the past 50 years). :)
>
> So, which should it have?
> This is new territory for us!
> KateH
Nylon strings last longer and are (usually) cheaper.
OTOH, real gut strings are what they used "way back when" if that matters to
you, and they have a sweeter tone IMHO.
I tried both on my tackhead fretless, and ended up using gut.
Pete
philwilking
Try Elderly Instruments, Mandolin Brothers, Just Strings, First Quality
Music Supply, Stewart-Macdonald, and Musicians' Friend for starters. If they
can't help you, ask the American Banjo Fraternity for recommendations.
--
PHIL WILKING
Those who would exchange freedom for
security deserve neither freedom nor security.
>
Don Hergert
Many people just get a couple of sets of La Bella classical guitar strings
(or else purchase single strings) and make a "classic banjo" set from them.
I've tried these, but was disappointed in how quickly they went dead.
There is a string maker named Aquila that makes Nylgut strings which are
supposed to most closely simulate gut, with with nylon (
http://www.aquilausa.com/ ) and they are very popular, but these strings are
not abrasion resistant and as such don't last very long on a fretted neck
(similar to gut). Donald Zepp ( http://zeppmusic.com/ ) is probably one of
the best sources for selected sets of these Nylgut banjo strings (and many
other classic banjo things too). A Google search for "classic banjo" or
Nylgut or Aquila will probably result in other good vendors too.
My personal preference on my classic banjo is nylon fishing line. I use
20#, 30#, 40#, 50# and 20# test stretch and abrasion resistant fishing line
(for strings 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, counting from the first long string on the
right, facing the banjo). Trilene is good as is South Bend (I've got a mix
of them). These are not cheaper than other strings unless you fish or
unless you consider the bulk they are available in; the reason I like them
is they last and stay alive forever and with them I can use a nylon 4th
string instead of a wound one. (For as much fishing line as I bought
experimenting with brands and pound-tests, I probably could have bought
enough Nylgut or real gut strings to last for 5 years, but it was an
interesting experiment and I'll clearly never need to buy fishing line or
classic banjo strings again. :) )
The S.S. Stewart classic-banjo I use these fishing line strings on has a
plastic head, a hub-cap resonator, a headguard and an armrest, plus I use
fingerpicks (Ernie Ball Picky Picks) since I also play fingerstyle on steel
string banjos. (Most serious classic banjo players use no resonator and use
fingernails and skin heads, neither which I have had good luck with.) So it
can also be pretty loud for a banjo with nylon strings. This banjo is a
slightly short neck for a classic banjo so the strings are a little slack in
standard G tuning, which is to my preference. Expecting about 70 to 80% of
the volume that steel strings put out is probably just about right.
One thing you may notice with nylon strings is that they stretch for a long
time when you put them on, and they are remarkably tuning-sensitive to
temperature changes. Once the strings have been on for a week or two, they
will be stretched out, but you'll probably always have to re-tune when you
move from one temperature range to another.
If your Stewart has been modified with a new nut and bridge that are setup
just for steel strings, you may find that nylon or gut strings don't fit
just right in the string slots, or that your action is too low and the nylon
or gut strings buzz. These can be adjusted, the nut and bridge can be
replaced...
HOWEVER, for adjusting action, one of the "fancy" inventions that Stewart
put on many of his slightly later banjos was a turn-buckle style neck
adjuster. If you have one of these on your banjo, DON'T PUT ANY PRESSURE ON
THIS DEVICE; it is best left in neutral tension as it can very easily split
the heel of your neck where it attaches. Better to have a professional
luthier *with classic banjo experience* make this kind of adjustment for you
if it is needed as well doing the replacing of your nut and bridge if that
is needed.
I was lucky, while my Stewart came to me with steel strings, the original
nut had not been re-cut for them and my fishing line strings fit right in
the original old nut. I put on a higher 1/2" bridge of my preference anyway
and with that I was set. But one side effect of having steel strings on
these old Stewarts is you'll almost always end up with a nice cherry wood
neck that has a twist in it. Mine has a twist, but nylon strings (with
their inherant higher action) are pretty forgiving and it plays nicely.
Ironically, I was at a famous fretted stringed instrument store in Carlsbad,
California this weekend and cringed to discover that they had their two nice
old Stewarts strung with steel strings -- and their necks were both
twisting. I mentioned this to them but they are resistant to changing to
nylon or gut. Unfortunately the majority of banjo buyers -- who aren't very
familiar with classic banjos -- want to hear steel strings.
When you get to attaching strings, the site that Pete sent you (
http://www.mugwumps.com ) also discusses how to put nylon or gut strings on
a no-knot or similar tailpiece. The "standard" Stewart "No Nonsence"
tailpiece is a little different but simpler to tie if you have one of them.
Donald Zepp's site also discusses knots for these and more conventional
modern tailpieces.
Pete, you've heard my 1889 S.S. Stewart American Princess #2 classic banjo
recently, it has these fishing line strings on it. Since you've got a lot
more experience than I with classic banjos, I've been sort of curious about
your thoughts about the tone these strings put out -- and I won't be
offended if you don't like them. Your thoughts?
Personally, I love the tone of classic banjos (with nylon or gut strings).
My Stewart is one of my 2 main playing banjos now, the other an old
Ballbearing Mastertone steel string which I also love the tone from.
Sometimes, in situations where volume is not an issue, I have a hard time
deciding which to play.
Best,
-- Don
= = = = =
"P. Roehling" <nowa...@uh-uh.edu> wrote in message
news:13kmg14...@corp.supernews.com...
P. Roehling
"Don Hergert" <Don.H...@verizonN05pAm.net> wrote
> Pete, you've heard my 1889 S.S. Stewart American Princess #2 classic banjo
> recently, it has these fishing line strings on it. Since you've got a lot
> more experience than I with classic banjos, I've been sort of curious
> about your thoughts about the tone these strings put out -- and I won't be
> offended if you don't like them. Your thoughts?
Well, preference is dictated by personal tastes, and it's rare for two
people to agree on what they like -nor should they have to; "Bluegrass" or
"Traditional" Police notwithstanding.
That said; for *my style* I think I'd prefer strings with a sharper attack.
True story: I was once selling a reasonably loud and crisp Vega Tubaphone
down at the Topanga contest, and a young lady played it for a while and then
put it back in the case remarking that it was "just too bright". (Thunk I
with slight resentment: "What does *she* know"?)
About ten minutes later I heard her playing her own banjo, a
nothing-in-particular old open back with a very quiet voice and a rag
stuffed in between the perch-pole and the head, and discovered that she was
absolutely right: her instrument suited her very traditional Appalachian
playing style, voice, and material much better than did the Tubaphone.
I have no idea whether she'd adapted her vocal and playing styles to suit
what the banjo was capable of giving her, whether she'd just happened to
find a banjo that worked with her natural style, or whether she'd "had a
sound in her head" and looked until she found a banjo that matched it, but
in any case she knew what worked for *her*, and more power to her.
Pete
Don Hergert
been changed by my banjos. Probably especially with the Ballbearing, but
also with this Stewart.
When I get my old StewMac archtop Style 3 copy and play it sometimes, it
sounds so strange now.
Thanks again!
Best,
-- Don
"P. Roehling" <nowa...@uh-uh.edu> wrote in message
news:13kp0lp...@corp.supernews.com...
kateh
Hey, *really* appreciated all the info on the strings, folks! :)
It's a cool old banjo.....and we are real banjo-beginners.
I ordered a set of nylgut strings from Elderly.....so the kid can try those
out for a while. The banjo has wooden tuning pegs and one of them is
broken.
Any ideas of where to look for that?! :)
Kate
kateh
Stewart, probably made after Stewart was gone....about 1910, is our guess.
We have a brand new set of nylgut banjo strings ....... and one broken
tuning peg. New strings and not enough pegs......story of my life,
actually. :)
The fella at the local guitar shop says he can order me a wooden peg.
Before I do that, can anyone suggest where we might get a new (old) set of
pegs for this banjo? I've been searching the web, but have yet to find the
banjo-graveyard-of-old-parts-site that I'm looking for.
Kate(any suggestions would be *most* appreciated)H
P. Roehling
"kateh" <kat...@charter.net> wrote
> The fella at the local guitar shop says he can order me a wooden peg.
> Before I do that, can anyone suggest where we might get a new (old) set of
> pegs for this banjo? I've been searching the web, but have yet to find
> the banjo-graveyard-of-old-parts-site that I'm looking for.
> Kate(any suggestions would be *most* appreciated)H
Google Bernunzio. John probably has more old vintage banjo parts than anyone
else around, but you'll generally have to call him to see what he's got in
stock at any given time. He's very knowledgeable about old Stewarts, and
probably knows exactly what you need.
And if he doesn't have it, he'll probably know where you might be able to
get it.
Pete
Don Hergert
Pete, if we're looking for a violin style peg for this banjo, doesn't that
imply it was made earlier than 1910? Stewart started offering optional
friction pegs around 1889; from other Stewart dates that I've looked at, I
would have expected that his factory would have ended the violin style pegs
before he passed away in 1898.
Kateh, what serial number is on this banjo (rim and dowel)?
Btw, Pete's spot-on about Bernunzio. They also are selling off what remains
of a wonderful collection of Stewarts previously owned and published in a
number of books by Akira Tsumura.
Best,
-- Don
= = = = =
"P. Roehling" <nowa...@uh-uh.edu> wrote in message
news:477844a9$0$7208$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
kateh
> Hmmm, interesting...
>
> Pete, if we're looking for a violin style peg for this banjo, doesn't that
> imply it was made earlier than 1910? Stewart started offering optional
> friction pegs around 1889; from other Stewart dates that I've looked at, I
> would have expected that his factory would have ended the violin style
> pegs before he passed away in 1898.
>
> Kateh, what serial number is on this banjo (rim and dowel)?
The serial number is 10535......it says S.S. Stewart. Phila, PA and
grade 2.
It has the fancy paper label inside the rim and "monogram 10" carved on the
back of the head.
Maybe I was a little confused? The website looked like it gave a date of
between 1889 and 1894....for the serial number. It also said the Monogram
model was around 1910. What do you folks think? I'll get a picture up
here, eventually. :)
> Btw, Pete's spot-on about Bernunzio. They also are selling off what
> remains of a wonderful collection of Stewarts previously owned and
> published in a number of books by Akira Tsumura.
>
> Best,
> -- Don
Thank you, thank you.... Pete and Don. I'll Google Bernunzio.
I'm not thinking this little banjo needs to be 100% authentic before the kid
can play it, but I'd like to get it as close as I can.......within reason.
:)
Appreciate all your help!
KateH
kateh
> "kateh" wrote
Awesome, Pete. This is *exactly* what I was looking for. :)
I will call them....right after the 1st.
Thanks! :)
KateH
PS....fun looking at the fancy S.S. Stewart banjos for sale.
Don Hergert
I think you're right on that date after all. There's a conflict thought,
the serial number is surprising, but dating with serial numbers is not exact
during those days of the Stewart company's transitions from the hands of
Samuel Swain Stewart to those of his sons and their business partners. It's
possible that this banjo was actually built early per the serial number, but
not released with the final configuration until the Monogram model had come
out, but that's not something we can document.
Whatever the case it is an old classic banjo with history and that's very
neat...
Originality is nice with these old Stewart banjos, but the stark reality is
that the majority of banjo players want the sound of steel strings and
haven't really even heard or heard of a classic (or classic strung) banjo.
Given that your Stewart has most (and it sounds like eventually will have
all) original violin style pegs and that it most likely has an un-reinforced
neck, I'd still highly recommend avoiding steel strings and using nylon or
gut strings.
Restoring a banjo can be fun work, but as you say, it isn't necessary in
order to make it playable. One of the added blessings of nylon or gut
strings is that they are extremely forgiving of worn frets, higher action
and of a visibly twisted neck, all which are very common on these old
Stewarts (mostly because they were strung at one time with steel strings).
Let us know if you have questions about how to string and setup this banjo
for playability...
Best,
-- Don
= = = = =
"kateh" <kat...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:t6fej.159$dl1...@newsfe06.lga...
>> ...doesn't that imply it was made earlier than 1910?... Kateh, what
>> serial number is on this banjo (rim and dowel)?...
> The serial number is 10535......it says S.S. Stewart. Phila, PA and
> grade 2.
> It has the fancy paper label inside the rim and "monogram 10" carved on
> the back of the head.
>
> Maybe I was a little confused? The website looked like it gave a date of
> between 1889 and 1894....for the serial number. It also said the Monogram
> model was around 1910. What do you folks think? I'll get a picture up
> here, eventually. :)
>
>> Btw, Pete's spot-on about Bernunzio... >
David Raleigh Arnold
> S.S. Stewart was a well known name at the time. They were intended for
> finger style use. Do NOT put metal strings on it, it is not built to
> withstand the tension of metal strings. Use only silk, gut, or nylon
> strings.
Nonsense. Use thin metal strings. There was no such thing as nylon
strings in the 19th century, and steel strings were always used on 5
string banjo, except for the 4th, which was a guitar 5th string of wound
gut or silk, tuned very slack. In the 1890's you began to get steel
strings on guitars too. "classical" banjo is more of a lie than a myth.
daveA
--
Playing "as written" is paying attention, not being a fanatic.
email: darn...@cox.net (put "poisonal" anywhere in subject)
DGT: The only exercises best for all guitarists. Visit
http://www.openguitar.com/dynamic.html. Original easy solos at:
http://www.openguitar.com. :::=={_o) David Raleigh Arnold
Kenneth
<darn...@cox.net> wrote:
>Nonsense. Use thin metal strings. There was no such thing as nylon
>strings in the 19th century,
That's why they used gut...
All the best,
--
Kenneth
If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
Kenneth
<darn...@cox.net> wrote:
>"classical" banjo is more of a lie than a myth.
Hi Dave,
I am lost...
Is it the name "classical" to which you object, or do you
not believe that the many banjo orchestras in the Victoria
era of the US and England actually played music that today
is known by that term?
carlbaron
> not believe that the many banjo orchestras in the Victoria
> era of the US and England actually played music that today
> is known by that term?
Carl
Kenneth
Hi Carl,
I am certainly no expert (though I have played for more than
fifty years), but respectfully, I believe that you are
incorrect...
Search a bit and I think you will find that the common term
for the orchestral finger style banjo music so popular at
the turn of the 20th century is "classical banjo" (though
indeed, the term "classic" is occasionally used.)
carlbaron
> On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:45:47 -0500, carlbaron
> <c.b.ba...@FREEatt.net> wrote:
>>I think the term is "classic" not "classical".
>>Carl
> fifty years), but respectfully, I believe that you are
> incorrect...
>
> Search a bit and I think you will find that the common term
> for the orchestral finger style banjo music so popular at
> the turn of the 20th century is "classical banjo" (though
> indeed, the term "classic" is occasionally used.)
from 1st Google page only
search "classic banjo"
http://www.classicbanjo.com/
http://www.banjonews.com/BNlhtml/tab_Classic.html
http://www.ncbo.net/cdpage.htm
http://www.abfbanjo.org/
search "classical banjo"
http://www.johnbullard.com/
http://www.sibley-music.co.uk/classical_banjo.htm
http://www.folkofthewood.com/page2107.htm
http://www.thepickinparlor.com/Classical_Banjo_p/000179.htm
You take your choice but I'm sticking with "classic".
Carl
Wisko
http://www.mugwumps.com/stewart/sss_orch.jpg ), but some of the head
tightening screws have been lost, and the tailpiece is in need of a
part or two before the banjo can be restrung. Does anybody know of a
store that carries replacement parts for this gem? http://www.4turns.us/stewartbanjo.jpg
Many thanks,
Gunnar
Don Hergert
http://bernunzio.com . There is contact information for him there.
Best,
-- Don
"Wisko" <wis...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b047e1ce-d2a5-4cb4...@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
David Raleigh Arnold
> On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:07:18 GMT, David Raleigh Arnold
> <darn...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>"classical" banjo is more of a lie than a myth.
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> I am lost...
>
> Is it the name "classical" to which you object, or do you not believe
> that the many banjo orchestras in the Victoria era of the US and England
> actually played music that today is known by that term?
>
> All the best,
I object to putting nylon or gut strings on a 5 string banjo. The very
first 5 str banjo had to have a guitar 4th string, but the rest were
steel violin strings. If you want to do historically correct, play a 4
string banjo with no frets and nylon/gut on it if you like. The 3 long
one short original banjo disappeared instantly once there were 5 string
banjos. Nylon/gut banjos today are reviving a "classic" version of the 5
string that never existed, and they sound like crap too. daveA