why are banjo tuners geared differently than guitar tuners?
Joel W
tuners? They are much faster than guitar tuners- sometimes too fast for my
preference. It's annoying when I'm just a wee bit flat, and one more tweak
on the button and I've gone too far. Times like these I wish I had guitar
tuners which are easier to fine tune, but I don't like the way they stick
out the sides of the peg head. I've got Schaller tuners and they seem
pretty smooth to me. I think it's the gear ratio that gives me trouble more
than anything else. I'm interested if there is a reason banjo tuners are
geared differently and if others have this problem.
And then, the fifth string peg has yet another ratio. Why is that? Player
preference or limitations due to space in the gear box?
Thanks in advance-
Joel W
Tim
I never realized that the gear ratio's were so much different..
I looked it up on google and found a couple of pages about the issue here:
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Banjo/BanjoPegs/pegs01.html
It seems that banjo's were once a 1:1 ratio when they used pegs without
gears. Elsewhere I read that banjo's now are anywhere from 2:1 to 8:1 but
most are 4:1 where as most guitars ar about 14 or 15 to 1 and some electric
basses have a 20:1 ratio.
I have yet to find out why there is such a difference....
Tim
================================
"Joel W" <joelwen...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f0OAc.3702$U....@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
rck
Mastertone many years ago, I took out the banjo tuners and put in Grover
Roto-Matic guitar tuners. Afterward, that was the easiest tuning banjo I
ever had. I think overall, banjo tuners are deficient in comparison to
guitar tuners. I realize banjo tuners for some reason don't stick out the
side like guitar tuners, but I've never had a problem reaching the tuners on
my guitar. The entire banjo culture is strange. Guitar manufacturers
understand that people want a good sounding instrument that is easy to play
and tune. A top quality guitar has simple dots up the neck. Banjo
manufacturers understand that a banjo player first and foremost wants a fine
piece of furniture, ease of use is secondary.
Bob
Seven Inch Dilly
"Joel W" wrote
> Does anyone know why banjo tuners have a different gear ratio than guitar
Tradition. Originally banjos had friction pegs. Planetary gears in the same
holes look similar, but planetary gears can't easily be made with as high a
ratio as the right-angle worm gears normally used on guitars. Some banjos,
usually inexpensive ones like the Deering Goodtime or any number of asian
imports, have guitar
style tuners. Guitar tuners are less expensive, but work just fine on
banjos. Their association with low-end banjos is historical, and entirely in
the mids of players and builders.
-Dilly
Ken Blake
Seven Inch Dilly <di...@dilly.com> typed:
> "Joel W" wrote
>> Does anyone know why banjo tuners have a different gear ratio
than
>> guitar tuners?...
>
> Tradition. Originally banjos had friction pegs.
Wasn't the same originally true of guitars?
--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup
Bill Rogers
banjo players, anyway, retune fairly frequently. It's much quicker to
retune with the 4-1 planetary gears than 12-1 side gears. But I think
that's more of a rationalization for what is than the original reason.
Bill
"Seven Inch Dilly" <di...@dilly.com> wrote in message news:<10d8trp...@corp.supernews.com>...
Joel W
or if it was something they just had to live with. After looking at the
cut-away view of a planetary tuner on the FRETS website-
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Banjo/BanjoPegs/pegs01.html I
think if you decreased the diameter of the middle sun gear, and increased
diameter of the planetary gears that spin around it, one could get a higher
tuning ratio. But the question is: would banjo players want a higher tuning
ratio if they had the choice?
Apparently, when you add a right angle to the gearing--as is the case with
5th string pegs and guitar tuners--you can get a higher ratio. 5th string
pegs are 8:1, and now that I think about it, I don't have much trouble fine
tuning my 5th string. Sounds like 8:1 might be a happy medium of speed vs.
accuracy if it could be obtained somehow.
Joel
"Bill Rogers" <wmdr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:45b44b3d.04061...@posting.google.com...
Seven Inch Dilly
"Ken Blake" wrote
> Seven Inch Dilly <di...@dilly.com> typed:
> > "Joel W" wrote
> >> Does anyone know why banjo tuners have a different gear ratio
> than
> >> guitar tuners?...
> >
> > Tradition. Originally banjos had friction pegs.
>
> Wasn't the same originally true of guitars?
Yes, however guitars I've seen with friction pegs have (like most violins)
slots in the peghead and horizontal pegs. This doesn't explain why classical
guitars kept the slots and have machine tuners perpendicular to the peghead
and others don't. Or why few banjos have slotted pegheads, for that matter.
Since geared tuners were first introduced as a relatively expensive option
on high-end banjos and "student" models typically had less costly friction
pegs, similarity in appearance makes sense from both the manufacturing and
marketing perspective.
-Dilly
Bill Hays
can make banjo tuners in almost any ratio desired and will do so if the
order is large enough. Apparently, neither players nor manufacturers
have wanted something other than the standard 4:1 enough to make such an
order.
It may well be that the technology when planetary pegs were first
developed was such that 4:1 was the best that could be achieved. Banjo
players being traditionalists in the extreme, 4:1 became traditional and
not to be deviated from even when higher ratios became possible.
There are professional-level banjos that use high-ratio guitar tuners --
Scott Vestal's Stealth banjo comes to mind, as do some of the Nechville
models. But these examples are decidedly untraditional in their
appearance.
Are there enough of us here wanting higher ratios to place a large order
with Stew-Mac for planetary tuners with, say, 8:1 ratios?
B.
In article <Fk5Bc.7380$U.5...@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>,
"Joel W" <joelwen...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
--
--
Bill Hays <hay...@earthlink.net>
robb grant
handle extension onto a planetary peg:
If the tuning radius of the standard peg button on a 4:1 planetary is say...
10 mm, adding a 100 mm handle extension would give the sensitivity of a 40:1
tuner, based on the minimum torgue appliable by hand and required for a
minimal peg turn to overcome gear and bearing friction, string striction,
etc. at playing tensions.
Could even imagine have a little clip-on geared clock drive, mabye vernier
acting - give you any sensitivity you desire...
I'm ok with 4:1, though. I actually have two of the orig. guitar tuners
and two StewMacs of my GTC.C. = looks like two ears stick out the peg head
(my Nosbig banjo if you recall:)
robb
"Bill Hays" <hay...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:haysco-C26E40....@news2.west.earthlink.net...
gmc
wrote:
>I think you've got the idea there, but consider this too: Old-time
>banjo players, anyway, retune fairly frequently. It's much quicker to
>retune with the 4-1 planetary gears than 12-1 side gears.
Yup & also the nature of those original low-ratio tuners must have
also inspired the 'tune-on-the-fly' Scruggs pegs/Keith/D-tuner thang..