Arch Top vs Flat Top
Shortnin' Bred
I've heard people rave about their pre-war Gibson arch top banjo.
Pat Cloud has both and sometimes has a problems deciding on which one to
play. He comes in with three or four pre-war Gibsons and goes back and
forth while jamming.
So, what's up.
Thanks,
Vernon Ursenbach
Sean Barry
: Okay, pros and cons for arch top or flat top.
: So, what's up.
The archtop was the standard Gibson banjo configuration from 1925 all the
way through 1964, with the exception of the top-tensions and many of the
style '75's (1936-41). There were just a tiny fraction of pre-1964 Gibson
banjos (including the storied "prewars") shipped with flathead rings, a
far far smaller fraction than there are owners of "prewar Gibson
flatheads" today. The typical prewar began life as an archtop tenor
banjo, and has since been converted with a replacement five-string neck
and a postwar flathead tone ring--that makes the phrase "prewar Gibson
flathead five-string banjo" something of a stretch for all but about 2% of
those instruments.
Archtop tone is not favored by the purist Scruggs/Fleckophiles (ironic
combination, isn't it?). Archtop tone tends to be sharper with less bass
and less sustain than that delivered by flatheads. It's a result of the
reduced head diameter (1.5" less) in the archtop versus the full 11"
diameter of the flathead. Historically, the flathead is favored for
bluegrass primarily because "Earl played one," but some of the greatest
five-string players on the planet (e.g, Douglas Dillard) use archtops.
Some players, such as Pat Cloud, play such a variety of material that
different head configurations than the usual flathead might suit them
better for some of that material. Thus, the "pro" for the flathead is
that it's traditional in bluegrass, and the "con" is that some players who
actually prefer archtop tone might opt for tradition instead of
preference.
Sean Barry
dave
the ring?
Mine is a converted to RB TB 6 with flathead and 19 holes in the ring.
Now I see that most have 40 holes and some have 20. As a flathead I've
noticed from recordings that mine has a richer, deeper sound than most
and more similer to Earls sound (not that I play like him) but the
recordings of mine were done over a ten year period and 6 differant
labels/sudios by a awsome player that I bought it from.
So do the holes make a differance?
Sean Barry
: Ok, its arch vs flat, but what about the number of holes drilled in
Probably minimal--the "standard" flathead has 20 holes, but StewMac for
years supplied a Ryan flathead tone ring that had no holes and I've heard
no complaints about their tone. The standard "prewar" archtop has 40
horizontal holes (postwar Gibson archtops had four oblique holes), but
again there are lots of solid-wall archtops floating around (including
some of the early prewars from 1927-28, and the Ryan StewMac ring, which
makes a wonderful banjo). In any case, it's impossible to test different
rings for tonal differences--to do a valid test each ring must be mounted
exactly the same way on the same wooden rim, and that by itself is
impossible (disassembly changes everything, and most archtop and flathead
rings don't interchange directly). The rim-tone ring is a coupled system,
and as such the components can't be separated for independent comparison
(at least not for valid comparison). Besides that, there are effects of
setup, different metal parts, head tension, age of banjo, recording
equipment (much of the Scruggs legendary tone actually came from the
studio mike) and player to consider, so there is simply no generality
about any of those topics that holds water. From a player's perspective,
the key is to find a banjo that makes you smile and forget everything else
when you play it, that makes you want above all else to play that
instrument and no other. Don't bother to count holes or years, study
inlay, read brand names--just keep your ears open.
Sean Barry
Kevin Chaffee
flat top more of an arch top sound.
And, as a side benefit, it's bulletproof, too....
Bill Rogers
flathead to archtop.
Bill
Sean Barry wrote
:
> ...some of the greatest
> five-string players on the planet (e.g, Douglas Dillard) use archtops....
Kevin Chaffee
So many things can affect tone, it's hard to narrow it down to just
one factor. I have a '29 TB3 conversion archtop with the original
Rogers skin head still on it. My bandmate, Wayne Meinken, has a '37
style 75 archtop with a modern plastic head. My banjo has a much
mellower tone, with more bass response, than Wayne's, while his is
louder with the bright tone you expect from an archtop.
And that's just with a different head; you can see how much variance
there can be if you change other factors.
Kevin
Don Hergert
you and I met, and I missed it?)
I'll add here that the type of archtop does make a pretty big difference in
tone, too. As discussed a few weeks ago here, comparing a 40-hole archtop
with a Ball Bearing archtop, even both with plastic heads, results in big
differences in volume and balance.
I've never done it in person, but I've also heard that comparing a no-hole
archtop of the late '20s with a 40-hole archtop results in remarkable
differences too... Doug Dillard's Granada is one no-hole archtop which has
been an inspiration for of a lot of us. Of course most if not all of the
no-hole archtop banjos also had 2-piece flanges, for which the rims were not
cut-down quite as much as is necessary to accommodate a 1-piece flange. So
once again we're comparing apples and oranges.
I have read that Gibson's first cast archtop tone rings -- the no-hole
archtops of 1927 through 1929 -- had problems with mildew occurring on the
skin heads inside the sealed area of the arch. According to this account,
the 40-hole archtops solved the mildew problem, allowing air to circulate
into all areas of the head.
Here's an oddity -- I saw pics of an original (and authenticated) very late
'20s Gibson 40-HOLE-FLATHEAD banjo a few months ago. Pretty surprising, it
was probably an early prototype. I would really like to have heard this
one. I do not know if it was a low-profile or high-profile flathead.
Best,
-- Don
==================================
"Kevin Chaffee" <kcha...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:443ee30e.02072...@posting.google.com...
Mike Stanger
sometimes dry shade... (a saying from my family. My Dad got it from a
guy who refused to cut down some dead trees in his yard).
Regards,
Stanger
Don Hergert
a '34 H&F TB4, in the 95##-## serial number range, listed on Tom Biggs'
site. To my surprise I've even got a photo of the inside of the rim showing
the tone ring and the label. The owner has evidently had it authenticated
with both Gruhn and Huber. A very rare banjo, a real keeper.