IBANES banjos
JHON SMITH
any info
this one is blond with inlay on the neck and back of
resonator, and a clear top.
the only thing i have seen on the inter net is Ibanes guitars.
THANK YOU FOR ANY INFO
Wayne55Dud
That's Ibanez, with a z. Go to Paul Hawthorne's web site, and click on the
Asian banjo link. There is some info on the Ibanez brand and models.
Wayne Norman
"If a man speaks in the middle of a forest
and there is no woman there to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
Mike
Ibanez banjos were imported by the Elger Co, a subsidiary of Hoshino
Ghaki (the company who made Ibanez) in the East Coast, and the Chesbro
Music Co. in the West Coast starting in the early 70's. Thes companies
are still importing Ibanez instruments, but the banjos are no longer
being produced.
The Ibanez Artist series of banjos, like the one you mentioned, were
good Gibson copies, and were some of the most earliest and most popular
good quality imported banjos. They were quite close to Gibson
specifications, and delivered looks, playability and tone equal to the
Gibsons of the time at about half the price. Though Hoshino makes most
of it's instruments, they never made the banjos. They contracted a very
small factory in Northern Japan to produce them. This factory also made
the Gold Star, Fender Leo, and the top of the line Alvarez and Iida
banjos. All were essentially similar except for peghead shape, inlays,
trim, etc. Most had rosewood fingerboards on them, but the Ibanez
Artists always had ebony boards.
The standard Artist featured wreath inlays on the peghead and neck,
fiddle shaped peghead, a maple neck and resonator, 2-piece flange,
flathead tone ring on a multi-ply rim, clamshell tailpiece, and Gotoh
banjo tuners.
In 1976, a BiCentennial limited edition banjo was made (76 of them)
which featured a double-cut peghead with custom inlays, cutom inlays in
the neck, red/white/blue binding (the white was actually ivoroid), extra
binding in the lower edges of the rim inside and out, and a slightly
thicker rim thickness, and a Kerscher Unique tailpiece. These banjos are
extremely rare, and are the best sounding Ibanez ever made.
After Gibson sued Ibanez around 1978, Ibanez discontinued most of the
banjo line (which included several models below the Artists) and
introduced 3 new banjos that were totally different looking, but the
construction remained essentially the same. These banjos were The
Hunter, The Mountaineer, and the Woodsman. These later Ibanez banjos are
also very good quality, but are also hard to find as they were produced
in much lower quantity. None of these banjos looked like Gibsons at all.
By around 1982, banjo sales in general slumped severely, and Ibanez
dropped their banjo production altogether. They never started again
after they stopped.
In Europe and Australia, the same banjos were imported under the Blue
Bird name, and a couple of other names were used in the Orient. All were
identical to the Ibanez except for the name.
Regards,
Stanger
Brittles
<< Ibanez banjos were imported by the Elger Co, a subsidiary of Hoshino Ghaki
(the company who made Ibanez) in the East Coast, and the Chesbro Music Co. in
the West Coast starting in the early 70's. Thes companies are still importing
Ibanez instruments, but the banjos are no longer being produced. >>
Great info. Mike! THAT one went in the "Banjo Makers" file.
Ed Britt
Please Remove *UNSPAM* from my address, to e-mail me.
JHON SMITH
"JHON SMITH" <jhon...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:BQql7.8180$Uf1.6...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
Jon Freeman
All very interesting stuff. From what I remember from someone who had a "pre
law suit" Ibanez tenor (lovely instrument BTW), they got into trouble
because they got too close to the Gibson specs.
There are loads of "Mastertone clones" around by various makers. Can you
shine any light as to what makes some infringe on Gibson designs and others,
presumably not?
Jon
"Mike" <msta...@onewest.net> wrote in message
news:3B96A41D...@onewest.net...
Mike
The Ibanez-Gibson lawsuit was very interesting. Gibson sued Ibanez for
patent and copyright infringement around 1977. The suit was eventually
dropped, but Ibanez decided that they no longer needed or wanted to
produce Gibson clones; their products were well known by then, and they
saw the advantages of developing products which looked distinctly
Ibanez. This was a wise decision for them, as time has proven. Although
Ibanez no longer makes banjos, it is a major electric guitar maker these
days, and the Ibanez line of 7 string guitars is one of the most popular
with the current rock trend of low tuning and deep tones.
The Joe Satriani and Steve Vail rock guitars are sought after and demand
good prices, and the company is making a John Scofield reissue of one of
their best jazz models from the early 80's, which is renewing interest
in their jazz guitars, which were a lot like their banjos; very good,
and a lot of bang for the buck. (Personally, I think the company will
get back into making the jazz guitars long before they ever start
rebuilding their banjo market, and I bought a 1981 Ibanez FB100 this
year because I think the value is going to go up a lot in the next year
or two.)
The suit came about at a low time in Gibson's history. By 1970, the
Gibsons were really starting to go to hell in quality, and the
management, who were mostly Norlin scrubs who knew nothing of the
company's heritage or products, knew they had problems but didn't know
how to fix them. Norlin was the parent company of Gibson at the time,
and was a division of Coca-Cola.
Ibanez started importing guitars into the U.S. in the early 60's or
slightly before. At first, Ibanez was on par with Teisco and the other
Jap-crap instruments- cheesy woodwork, questionable electronics, lotsa
plywood, etc., but Hoshino, Ibanez' parent company, saw the decline of
U.S. workmanship in Fender and Gibson products, and gradually kicked
their product quality up, as well as their prices. They decided to take
advantage of the cheap Yen vs. Dollar, and put out as good a product as
they were capable of making. This was gradual and evolutional; there
were a lot of false starts and funky stuff that came and went (this is
still happening, too). The first good Hoshino products went to Europe,
where brand loyalty was not as strong as it was here.
By about 1974, Ibanez was kickin' butt here, though. If you look at
their electric guitars, which have always been their mainstay, Ibanez
consistantly produced a better playing, better looking and better
sounding instrument than either Fender or Gibson during that time, and
did it for half to 2/3 of the price of the competition. A lot of their
guitars were close copies, but just as many were original designs, and
just as many (or more) Fenders were copied as were the Gibsons.
Ibanez also copied Rickenbacker, Kramer, Gretsch, and other U.S.
companies, too, but only Gibson tried a lawsuit. Gibson found out to
their distress, though, that they didn't have much they could sue on!
Most of the Gibson patents had either expired or were easily gotten
around by minor changes, and most of the elements that clearly
identified Gibsons, such as the body proportions and shape, finish,
setup, etc. were not patentable. Of the guitars that Gibson had strong
patents on- the Explorer, Flying V, and Moderne- none had been produced
for almost 20 years and couldn't be easily enforced.
The Ibanez Flying V electric guitar was the instrument that brought the
fight to a head. Ibanez made a better and more faithful copy of the
famous and rare guitar- limed mahogany finish, shape, the rubber grip
strip, etc.- than Gibson made when it tried to re-introduce the Flying V
in 1975. Nobody bought the Gibsons, and the Ibanez were going for more
than list price and flying off the shelves! Gibson sued about 4 months
after they reissued their Flying V.
Ibanez agreed to quit making guitars with a Gibson shaped peghead (the
only thing Gibson could clearly enforce copyright on), and that was
that. Within a year or so, Ace Freehly of Kiss quit using his Les Paul
and adopted an Ibanez Iceman guitar, and Ibanez came out with a Freehly
model, which started the artist endorsements for Ibanez that continues
to this day. They have a big and effective artist relations dept. in the
company.
Ibanez banjos were more of an afterthought than anything, and were never
sold in the quantities of their electric guitars. Even more Ibanez
mandolins than banjos were sold, because there was a rather healthy U.S.
band of banjo makers which took much of the market. OME, Stelling, Great
Lakes, Martin-Vega, Fender, ODE, Liberty, and many other makers started
about the same time Ibanez banjos were imported. There were very few
mandolins available at that time, though, and Ibanez made a killing with
theirs- they were good, cheap, well made, solid wood, etc.... typical
Ibanez success stuff, and on par with contemporary products. Bill Monroe
endorsed them, although he never used them, except for his appearances
in Japan, where he kept one on stage as a second instrument. I asked him
about the endorsement deal, and he said "they was pretty good for their
time." After Gibson finally realized their mando market depended mostly
on him and did the good overhaul on his old Loar, that was the end of
Monroe and Ibanez. I'm sure he gave his Ibanez mandos away.
Regards,
Stanger
Jon Freeman
I'd obvously got the wrong idea. That was very informative.
Jon
"Mike" <msta...@onewest.net> wrote in message
news:3B97C991...@onewest.net...
Mike
There have been lots of legends that have grown up around the
Ibanez-Gibson lawsuit, but that story was the way it really happened.
Ironically, if Gibson had never sued Ibanez, Ibanez probably wouldn't be
as well known as they are now. (Aria, IIda, and a lot of their original
competition are either gone now or are still small operations).
Before the suit, Ibanez rarely used Americans as designers or
consultants (I think I was the first), but afterward, Ibanez hired a lot
of Americans from other companies, and developed their incredible
customer and artist relations group. Now, they are easily one of the
better known names in the guitar business.
Stanger
TornDesign
mandolins available at that time, though, and Ibanez made a killing with
theirs- they were good, cheap, well made, solid wood, etc.... >>
Were the Ibanez mandos F style of A style? When was Ibanez making them? Can
they still be had or are they hard to find these days? Just curious about all
this stuff... thanks for the great rant rant Mike
Terry
Mike
The Ibanez mandolins were offered in a wide variety. They sold some
bowl-backed mandos early on, and continued those for a long time after
they offered the others. They mostly made F style instruments- they had
quite a line of them, including one early Loar style mandolin with a
simplified fern peghead inlay, and Loar side binding that was similar to
Monroe's mandolin. These are the rarest; they were quite limited. Most
of the Ibanez F style mandos were essentially similar in construction
but came in quite a wide variety of finishes and colors. Some of the F
models had oval holes like the F4, and they made one with 2 points like
the Gibsons of the 50's.
They also made corresponding A models with oval and f holes. After the
lawsuit, they made a very small number of mandos that had the Gumby fake
scroll, like the Gibsons of the early 70's. These outfits had a totally
different peghead shape which was more like a Monteleone (and it also
looks vaguely similar to the shape used on their guitars, too). These
mandolins have a thinner finish and sounded quite good, but were too
different looking to catch on at the time.
For the big number of mandolins I know of, there are very few that come
up for sale. The Ibanez generally don't have as big or fat a sound as
the later U.S. made mandos that started coming on the market in the
80's, but they still sound pretty good. The company that made the
mandolins for Ibanez also made the top of the line Washburn models, like
the one Jethro Burns liked so much in his later days. You never see any
of these come up for sale, either... probably because they are either
still being played, or because they make good second instruments for the
folks that bought other ones later on.
I have an F model with a wine sunburst- one of the rarer colors they
did... it's very playable- great action- but the neck is a little narrow
and quite V shaped. I compared it next to a brand new Weber about 3
weeks ago; a buddy just bought the Weber and brought it over. The Ibanez
tone was noticeably thinner than the Weber, which was just a bulldog...
I wanted to swap, but no deal!
Stanger