1800 ES as daily driver????
Andrew Fischer
I'd appreciate suggestions and advice about this.
My main concerns are reliability, ease of service and availability of
parts.
Is there anything I should look out for?
Any major parts that cannot be had at all?
It gets hot here. Working A/C is a must. Is 134 conversion possible?
I commute to work two or three days a week, work at home the rest of the
time. However, I need a car that will start and run when I need it to, not
when it wants to. I'm willing to deal with one or two repairs a year but
can't wait weeks for parts.
I owned a Saab 95 in the mid '80s. Even at 360,000mi the car ran well but I
finally gave it up because parts were just too expensive.
Pat Quadlander
Very do-able. Watch out for rust - pull the carpets to check the interior
floor pans, check the wheel wells where tires throw up rain water, snow,
salts and debris, check the rocker panels, check the battery tray (both the
engine bay side and under the interior dash, which is the back side of the
tray), check the "jacking posts" (where the round-domed jack fits into a
donut shape just under the side panel) - all of these are well-known likely
rust spots. If you see any sign of rocker panel or wheel well body work,
like bondo, you can assume there is more rust underneath. The automatic
transmission (an option on the very late 1800E and ES) is probably not as
durable as the 4 speed manual + overdrive. All major parts can be found.
All minor parts can be found at a price, if you know what I mean. A well
maintained 1800 can last almost forever, but probably not as long as a 122
with same care. You should expect a badly cracked dashboard vinyl, maybe
cracked door armrests vinyl, certainly cracked leather seating if original.
The 1800 has a strong, if not large, following of owners/collectors and
sufficient sources of parts suppliers. While my daily driver is a late
model 240 (just a baby at only 10 yrs old and 106,000 mi), I often drive my
70 1800E. It's on blocks right now while I rebuild the manual steering box
and replace several ball joints. Next on the list is a thorough rodding out
of the radiator, or upgrade to larger, in order to do the next thing on the
list, which is to re-install the A/C. Living in Texas, I agree with you:
A/C is a must. For conversion to R134 on the 1800, check out this web site
for info on "how to": http://home.earthlink.net/~goodspeeds/index.htm . The
1800ES is a good choice of versatility compared with the 1800, for its extra
seating and cargo space. Fun to drive. Almost as much fun for the
attention they get on the road (I describe them as a Swedish-Italian
spaceship). Expect to pay $6k - $8k for a well maintained or decently
restored model. For a great web site of 1800 enthusiasts, check out
http://www.egroups.com/group/1800list/. Is this more than you wanted to
know?
Good luck,
Pat Quadlander
Andrew Fischer <fisc...@cts.com> wrote in message
news:B5C2EC45.253F5%fisc...@cts.com...
Edfan
"Pat Quadlander" <pq...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:8nkjkh$j8n$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
> Andrew,
>
> Very do-able.
Maybe, if you devote an investment portfolio to it.
You forgot the part where an owner who relies on outside mechanics
will be persistently, even ruthlessly exploited and ripped off until it's
cheaper to buy another car (maybe two) to use as backup. The minute anything
REALLY bad happens, you'd better fix it yourself -- or give it up.
From its 1500 mile checkup, my 1800E was one pain after another, for
most of its life. It was often taken for joy rides by mechanics who'd never
seen one before. An oil change once took all day and put 150 miles on the
odometer. Alas, they were just as casual about fixing stuff that actually
went wrong. The car went very fast a few times. Mostly, it went 3-6 months
between $1,000 repairs. There was a recall for some clamps on the fuel
injectors. The dealer charged me over $300 for this. It was a couple of
years before I realized that should have been covered by warranty.
The 1800 series cars especially have been service lemons for a very
long time, IMHO. Most Volvo owners have been exploited, actually, the same
thing seemed to happen with all four Volvos I've had (though the 1800E was
the most unreliable). I stopped buying them when I realized what holes in
the wallet they were - not due to design, but due to America's crude,
untrained mechanics. I put the 1800E on blocks for some years after its last
major breakdown. They claimed it ate a rod. I put in a new engine from Don
Thibault recently. That engine arrived in perfect shape. It took two or
three expert (and expensive) mechanics to make it unreliable.
Now I'm trying to get an 1800E up as a daily driver and am recalling
exactly why I put it on blocks for so many years: after well over $1,000
spent at Bob Workman's European blahblahblah in Vista, California the other
day - the car barely made 50 miles. It went home exactly how it was
delivered to him: on a tow truck. Naturally, he'd like me to tow it back to
his place for maybe another $1,000 worth of mystery metal medicine. If you
just replace every single thing you can think of, why, it might at least get
home, yes? Until the next never-predictable thing happens and it stops in
traffic and risks lives all around you at 60 mph.
In physics, this is called the Fat Chance Theory. <grim LOL>
Don't do it. If you are Volvo nuts, get a 1989 DL with plain
everything, no turbo, no blahblahblah. IFF you have a reliable mechanic
nearby. Or buy new with intent to sell within five years. Everything else
costs so much, you might as well buy Japanese -- it will cut down on towing
bills at least, and you have much better choice of mechanics. In coastal
areas, a little vampire gang has arisen, with only one or two mechanics to
go to, you WILL pay through the nose - like $87 to change the fluid in a
gear box. I mean seriously, check and see if they'll at least give you a
kiss before charging that kinda money.... Otherwise, IMHO, if you don't live
near, say, a Don Thibault, don't try to keep an old Volvo as a daily driver.
You'll be sorry. And poor.
Brian Hatfield
>
>snip<
>You forgot the part where an owner who relies on outside mechanics
>will be persistently, even ruthlessly exploited and ripped off until it's
>cheaper to buy another car (maybe two) to use as backup. The minute
anything
>REALLY bad happens, you'd better fix it yourself -- or give it up.
>
It's a shame you got screwed, blued & tattooed AND the same thing can happen
to any vehicle from one wheel to 18. Caveat Emptor is as true now as it has
ever been. Perhaps I have been fortunate in that I have been able to
recognize scum or inept mechanics w/o too much damage to my wallet and
continue the search.
I've got a p1800e that has had it's share of problems. I keep on fixing and
restoring it because I just happen to like the car. It's been a stalwart
and reliable companion, and as long as I take the time to decipher what it's
telling me, all is well. Even a brand new car will have it's share of
problems, and a dealer is no guarantee that service will be done correctly.
If he has found a 'good' one (based on whatever personal stamp of approval
is your favorite) and is willing to deal with the idiosyncratic nature of
all older vehicles then it will suit his needs perfectly.
Best of Luck, and VSA is an incredibly good source of information.
Brian
Andrew Fischer
mechanics to avoid.
I fix most things myself -- I even have some fuel injection test equipment
left over from my wife's VW. For the things I can't do, I've found a few
decent places. (North City Alignment on Black Mtn. is quite good.)
As for a DL. No thank you. I'd just as soon keep my '94 Ram.
I'm quite upset about current Volvos. Volvo has set things up so that you
have no choice but to go the dealer... I hope we don't regret our V40.
Edfan
"Brian Hatfield" <Dr.Ha...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:G1Mn5.18554$4T.11...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> It's a shame you got screwed, blued & tattooed AND the same thing can
happen
> to any vehicle from one wheel to 18.
No, I don't think so. You're risking a LOT more when you buy a car
that had only 30,000 copies to begin with, only 15,000 sold in USA. Far
fewer mechanics are familiar with it and when there is no competition, you
WILL have a higher chance of paying $87 for an oil change. That's just
economics.
I've had several Japanese cars now. They run forever on nothing. The
ANNUAL expense on a 2 year old Volvo 122S cost me more than the combined
repair costs of 27 years of owning Nissans. In fact, I drove a 13 year old
Nissan to pick up the next new Nissan I bought. Which has run now for some
14 years with two clutch jobs and one brake job. Otherwise, only consumables
such as tires and oil.
I think buying an "exotic" is going to cost more not just because it
breaks down more - it might not. It's going to cost more because we have
zero protection from crappy mechanics in this country and you can't tell by
looking. When you are the ONLY service for 150 miles, your yard will be
filled, almost no matter what your work quality is. When they are allowed to
replace simply everything until the car works - you will have "good work,"
you'll just pay through the nose for it. There is no incentive for them to
do better. Where are you going to go when your car has just stopped in the
middle of traffic and the Volvo dealer says they will not serve such an old
vehicle?
Edfan
> I'm quite upset about current Volvos. Volvo has set things up so that you
> have no choice but to go the dealer... I hope we don't regret our V40.
I honestly believe that new Volvos are better than most older ones.
But with older Volvos, you have parts and service problems which have
nothing to do with the car design. Volvo has abandoned the old cars. The
local dealer has nobody who CAN service them and they don't care anyway.
Even the Volvo junk yard doesn't keep older parts, they let them rot when
they come in - or hand them over to the few mechanics nearby - who turn
them over with 1000% markup (near as I can tell).
I'll end up doing much of the work myself too, I suppose. We all
will. But people who are not going to do that should keep in mind what
they're up against. They should keep their AAA cards handy.
IISergioII
the more exotic 1800?]
Can 240s be "souped-up" in fact?
Edfan
project. Still -- Volvos simply are not the most reliable cars in the world
and nothing is going to make them fit any better into the Practical column
than doing your own work.
"IISergioII" <iiser...@aol.commosholu> wrote in message
news:20000820154004...@ng-ff1.aol.com...
TheCritic
news:8nUn5.4233$Nz4.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> I honestly believe that new Volvos are better than most older
ones.
> But with older Volvos, you have parts and service problems which have
> nothing to do with the car design.
BS.
> Volvo has abandoned the old cars.
Complete crap.
> The
> local dealer has nobody who CAN service them and they don't care anyway.
Why would you take a old Volvo to the dealer?! They deal in new cars; you're
absolutely right - they don't care about the old ones, why should they?
However; parts availability is fantastic for older Volvos (Unless Ford has
changed things; you can still get some PV544 parts from the dealer). And,
while experienced service is nice; it's not totally necessary for the older
Volvos - they're not much different than most other European cars of that
vintage; not much different from most domestics for that matter (at least,
not different enough that any half-brained mechanic couldn't do effective
work on it).
> Even the Volvo junk yard doesn't keep older parts, they let them rot when
> they come in - or hand them over to the few mechanics nearby - who turn
> them over with 1000% markup (near as I can tell).
I don't know where you live; but it's sounding like complete Volvo hell.
Maybe it's just my proximity to Volvo Heaven (Seattle/Ballard, WA), but
there's plenty of junkyards who keep old Volvo parts (but no 'u-pull-it'
types, damn...) - at decent prices...
> I'll end up doing much of the work myself too, I suppose. We all
> will. But people who are not going to do that should keep in mind what
> they're up against.
What, exactly, is that?
> They should keep their AAA cards handy.
The two times I've used my AAA card to tow my '86 240 were the direct result
of the negligence of a certain Volvo dealer (whom I went to as an
experiment - to find if the "dealers are better" rumor was true). Once
because they totally neglected to thread my sparkplugs into their holes; and
they blew out on the highway (lost a plug; and melted some plug wires -
making towing the easiest option), and again because they did not; as I had
requested (and was charged for) - clean my flame trap - which resulted in
the loss of my rear camshaft oil seal. (No; they hadn't even opened it up -
same zip tie I had placed on it earlier was still there).
-So; as always; if you want it done right, do it yourself.
-Justin
John T. Horner
>
> "Brian Hatfield" <Dr.Ha...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:G1Mn5.18554$4T.11...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > It's a shame you got screwed, blued & tattooed AND the same thing can
> happen
> > to any vehicle from one wheel to 18.
>
> No, I don't think so. You're risking a LOT more when you buy a car
> that had only 30,000 copies to begin with, only 15,000 sold in USA. Far
> fewer mechanics are familiar with it and when there is no competition, you
> WILL have a higher chance of paying $87 for an oil change. That's just
> economics.
Bull. Mechanically the 1800 is nearly identical to the 120, 140 and 240
series cars. I've owned and worked on them all.
What I can't believe is that you have kept going back to mechanics who
ripped you off.
John
John T. Horner
> 240s can indeed be souped up and yes, I think it's a more prudent
> project. Still -- Volvos simply are not the most reliable cars in the
world
> and nothing is going to make them fit any better into the Practical column
> than doing your own work.
>
Gee, don't tell that to my buddy who puts 40,000 miles a year on his Volvos
(240 wagons) and runs them to about 300,000 miles before getting a "newer"
one. And no, he doesn't so much as change his own oil.
John
Daniel the Red
> "Edfan" <ed...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > You're risking a LOT more when you buy a car
> > that had only 30,000 copies to begin with, only 15,000 sold in USA. Far
> > fewer mechanics are familiar with it and when there is no competition, you
> > WILL have a higher chance of paying $87 for an oil change. That's just
> > economics.
> Bull. Mechanically the 1800 is nearly identical to the 120, 140 and 240
> series cars. I've owned and worked on them all.
THANK you. Finally, some sense in this thread. Oil changes by an honest
technician don't cost $87, period, paragraph, paws down, end of
discussion, regardless of what you drive.
> What I can't believe is that you have kept going back to mechanics who
> ripped you off.
Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it? EVERY place has good techs. If
you're going to drive a nonstandard car, you need someone better than a
parts-changer. I've not had any problem finding good techs in Colorado,
California, Oregon, Illinois, Michigan, Washington and Wisconsin.
--Daniel
NBCS b6f+wg++rp
---------- ---------- ---------- - - - - - - ---------- ---------- ----------
"I would ask you inside," Medwyn continued, "but the disorder at the
moment--there were bears at breakfast, and you can imagine the state of
things."
---------- ---------- ---------- - - - - - - ---------- ---------- ----------
Edfan
dishonest or incompetent? Where have I heard that before?
For readers' benefit, it is a good idea to check NATIONAL Yellow
Pages and check just how many Volvo mechanics there are around. Not all
Volvo owners stay in one town for the expected life of the car. In the town
where I bought this 1800E, there was ONE Volvo dealer. That was it. After
that was a Shell station. The next Volvo dealer was nearly an hour away.
John, why defend dishonest and incompetent mechanics? Do you
identify with them?
"John T. Horner" <jtho...@garlic.com> wrote in message
news:sq2c7p...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Edfan" <ed...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:TgUn5.4207$Nz4.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "Brian Hatfield" <Dr.Ha...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:G1Mn5.18554$4T.11...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > >
> > > It's a shame you got screwed, blued & tattooed AND the same thing can
> > happen
> > > to any vehicle from one wheel to 18.
> >
> > No, I don't think so. You're risking a LOT more when you buy a
car
> > that had only 30,000 copies to begin with, only 15,000 sold in USA. Far
> > fewer mechanics are familiar with it and when there is no competition,
you
> > WILL have a higher chance of paying $87 for an oil change. That's just
> > economics.
>
>
> Bull. Mechanically the 1800 is nearly identical to the 120, 140 and 240
> series cars. I've owned and worked on them all.
>
> What I can't believe is that you have kept going back to mechanics who
> ripped you off.
>
> John
>
>
>
Edfan
"Daniel the Red" <das...@engin.umich> wrote in message
news:Pine.HPX.4.02.100082...@topaz.engin.umich.edu...
>
> > What I can't believe is that you have kept going back to mechanics who
> > ripped you off.
>
> you're going to drive a nonstandard car, you need someone better than a
> parts-changer. I've not had any problem finding good techs in Colorado,
> California, Oregon, Illinois, Michigan, Washington and Wisconsin.
Sure - and you will avoid falling into similar clutches, yes? Cuz
YOU had so many better recommendations, why, you were all over the newsgroup
when I asked for mechanics' names a few weeks back, yes? You just KNOW it's
MY FAULT that I got so much crappy work all these years? After all,
everybody knows better than to use, say, VOLVO DEALERS. Or private
mechanics. Why, it's easy as pie for predict in advance that a guy with a
yard full of Volvos is going to charge $1400 - resulting in the car going 50
miles before having to be towed home.
What is WRONG with you people? Is it like those folks who mock
robbery victims by thinking up lists like, "Well, you were out after dark
and carrying money and wearing a new suit, of COURSE you will be robbed!"
Psych studies indicate that type of response is intended to make the speaker
feel safer, as if they can control their own vulnerability by finding fault
with someone else's responses. The idea is that if you don't do what that
person did, why, you will not be victimized. What did I do wrong? I went to
authorized Volvo dealers for most of this car's life. I'v paid and paid and
paid. When it became so old the dealer refused to serve it, I asked (HERE)
for recommendations for a local mechanic. I went there. And paid some more.
And some more. Enough.
You are not made safer by mocking or blaming a victim of
incompetence or dishonesty. People who lie, cheat and steal are out to get
us ALL, not just those who trust - or have no choice. I've owned enough
Volvos to know it's harder to get good work than other brands I've owned. It
has affected my response to the brand.
Yeah, right, you know better than I do what expenses are in this
car's folder since buying it new.
Those of you thinking of buying old Volvos - think about this
thread. It is exactly the same reception you will get a few miles down the
road. Sooner or later, you will discover how few resources are available to
keep these cars going.
Edfan
"TheCritic" <Deser...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:Ni7o5.148$Z96....@sea-read.news.verio.net...
> > I honestly believe that new Volvos are better than most older
> ones.
> > But with older Volvos, you have parts and service problems which have
> > nothing to do with the car design.
>
> BS.
>
> > Volvo has abandoned the old cars.
>
> Complete crap.
Oh, really? And where were YOU when I came in here a few weeks ago
asking for names of mechanics for this vehicle?
YOU are full of crap. They've lost interest in this car, they're
Fords now.
> > The
> > local dealer has nobody who CAN service them and they don't care anyway.
>
> Why would you take a old Volvo to the dealer?!
GEE, pardon the hell out of me for taking a Volvo to a Volvo dealer,
everybody knows they must go to Seattle.
Yeah, right - that's why the local Volvo junk yard said they had
zero parts for Volvos this old. He must be lying too, same as everybody but
you and your little hate cadre. Everybody paying the bills is lying. YOU
know better. It's too bloody bad you guys don't pay the bills.
> I don't know where you live; but it's sounding like complete Volvo hell.
I'll agree with this.
> -So; as always; if you want it done right, do it yourself.
Which is EXACTLY what people buying these old cars must consider!
Which was my major point.
I dunno what kind of button I pushed by telling the simple truth
but REALLY, you guys are a bit much. What reason do I have to lie like a
rug? I'm relating a story MANY people could tell - if they cared enough to
go online with it. I gain ZERO from telling lies. I'm hurt and upset and
VERY ticked off at being made a target when I'm the one paying the
bills ----
Edfan
production, you get a few perfect ones off most assembly lines.
I also think people forget what they put into these things. I've
recently reviewed the folders on my Volvos - and am surprised how much they
cost to keep going. Nissans are MUCH cheaper long term. In fact, the only
cars I owned that cost as much as Volvos to keep were one Olds and a
Mercury. It rather surprised me too. I'd always thought of Vs as sturdy
cars. They are - physically. I do feel safer in one. I pray it's justified.
"John T. Horner" <jtho...@garlic.com> wrote in message
news:sq2cde3...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Edfan" <ed...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
Daniel Stern Lighting
>
> "Daniel the Red" <das...@engin.umich> wrote:
> > > What I can't believe is that you have kept going back to mechanics who
> > > ripped you off.
> >
> > Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it? EVERY place has good techs. If
> > you're going to drive a nonstandard car, you need someone better than a
> > parts-changer. I've not had any problem finding good techs in Colorado,
> > California, Oregon, Illinois, Michigan, Washington and Wisconsin.
> Sure - and you will avoid falling into similar clutches, yes?
Yup.
> YOU had so many better recommendations, why, you were all over the newsgroup
> when I asked for mechanics' names a few weeks back, yes?
Nope. I read this group sporadically. You clearly have a very bad
attitude; I doubt I would've responded to your request.
> You just KNOW it's
> MY FAULT that I got so much crappy work all these years?
Well, assuming that you went to several different mechanics over the
years, and didn't just keep on going back to the same mechanic again and
again and again, then the common thread is Y-O-U. Either that or it's all
a vast conspiracy...all Volvo techs in the world, against you.
> everybody knows better than to use, say, VOLVO DEALERS.
Well...YEAH! There's NO excuse for using a dealer for service after the
warranty's up, unless you have a (relatively rare) particularly good one.
Dealers of most all brands of car are rather well-known for charging very
high prices and having high mechanic turnover and
frequently-unsatisfactory service work standards, generating large volumes
of comeback work.
> Or private
> mechanics.
Well, that's the option I go with. I find more good ones than bad ones.
> Why, it's easy as pie for predict in advance that a guy with a
> yard full of Volvos is going to charge $1400 - resulting in the car going 50
> miles before having to be towed home.
To what degree did you check into this guy's credentials? Did you get
references? Did you examine his shop? Did you ask very pointed questions
about the work AND the cost, upfront and afterwards? You're talking about
an old Volvo--did you use any of the MANY well-set-up Internet resources
for owners of older Volvos, such as the Brickboard and VClassics? If
not...you failed to do your homework.
> What is WRONG with you people?
Allergic to bad attitudes and stupidity, maybe.
> Psych studies indicate that type of response is intended to make the speaker
> feel safer, as if they can control their own vulnerability by finding fault
> with someone else's responses.
If you're done armchair-psychologizing the rest of the newsgroup, I'll
point out that I feel no need to feel "safer", because I have faith in my
'71 Volvo and in the people I allow to work on it, and that's because the
car and the people have earned my trust.
> The idea is that if you don't do what that
> person did, why, you will not be victimized. What did I do wrong?
Well, for one, you're not making a lotta points by crying "Victim".
> I went to
> authorized Volvo dealers for most of this car's life.
See above.
> I'v paid and paid and paid.
Throwing money at an automobile does not put it into proper repair.
> When it became so old the dealer refused to serve it, I asked (HERE)
> for recommendations for a local mechanic.
You got free advice. Free advice is worth what it costs.
> I went there. And paid some more. And some more. Enough.
Throwing money at an automobile does not put it into proper repair.
> You are not made safer by mocking or blaming a victim of
> incompetence or dishonesty.
No, but iut sure seems like you failed to hold-up your end of the bargain
(see above: "research")
> People who lie, cheat and steal are out to get us ALL
True. I avoid them.
> not just those who trust - or have no choice. I've owned enough
> Volvos to know it's harder to get good work than other brands I've owned.
Maybe and maybe not. It's harder in some places, easier in others. But
the fact remains, it's perfectly possible.
> has affected my response to the brand.
*shrug* Do you feel "safer" now?
> Yeah, right, you know better than I do what expenses are in this
> car's folder since buying it new.
No, I don't. But I do know that an unbroken history of poor experiences
with a wide variety of service shops points back to the common thread in
all of the experiences...the owner.
> Those of you thinking of buying old Volvos - think about this
> thread.
Yes, do. And dare to think for yourselves.
> It is exactly the same reception you will get a few miles down the
> road. Sooner or later, you will discover how few resources are available to
> keep these cars going.
Oh, horse puckey. The resources are out there and plentiful. You're just
lazy.
--Daniel
NBCS b6f+wg++rp
---------- ---------- ---------- - - - - - - ---------- ---------- ----------
CAUTION: Contains solid-phase Dihydrogen Monoxide! To avoid phase change,
store at or below 273K. Vaporization will occur at or above 373K.
Harmful or fatal if inhaled.
Daniel Stern Lighting
> Oh, really? And where were YOU when I came in here a few weeks ago
> asking for names of mechanics for this vehicle?
Oh, boo-hoo, nobody answered your RFR.
> YOU are full of crap. They've lost interest in this car, they're
> Fords now.
> GEE, pardon the hell out of me for taking a Volvo to a Volvo dealer,
> everybody knows they must go to Seattle.
ALL manufacturers tend to have ZERO interest in cars much over 10 years
old. This is not unique. Asking a dealer to work on an ancient car for
which none of his technicians know the service procedures is just dumb.
> Yeah, right - that's why the local Volvo junk yard said they had
> zero parts for Volvos this old.
So drive on up the highway to another yard.
> He must be lying too, same as everybody but
> you and your little hate cadre.
..."hate cadre"...? *gufFAW*
> I dunno what kind of button I pushed by telling the simple truth
Could have sumpin' to do with your poor attitude and generally whiny tone.
> but REALLY, you guys are a bit much.
Okay. Leave.
> What reason do I have to lie like a
> rug?
Maybe you just like to kvetch?
> I'm relating a story MANY people could tell
But MANY people aren't. Just you.
> I'm hurt and upset and VERY ticked off at being made a target when I'm
> the one paying the bills ----
Awww....poor widdle victim...
This is Usenet. Love it or leave it.
(Here's a vote for "leave it").
--Daniel
NBCS b6f+wg++rp
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"I would ask you inside," Medwyn continued, "but the disorder at the
moment--there were bears at breakfast, and you can imagine the state of
things."
Pat Quadlander
In his defense, Edfan raises some valid points if you listen carefully. I
assume you are not nor ever have been a Volvo owner, though you mention a
passing interest in a newer (heh, heh) Saab. Traditionally, Volvos have
been engineered with a little different philosophy from the rest. Older
volvos were designed with these priorities: safety,
maintainability/durability, comfort, style. Sometimes, the comfort and
style innovations compromised the safety and maintainability goals. For
example, the no solid window frame on the 1800 is a less sturdy structure,
the fresh air vent system collects more rain water than cool breeze, etc..
Overall, I've come to appreciate the experiments that the traditional Volvo
engineers pursued over the years, including the failures, and in some areas
(vehicle safety, ergonomics, durability), they have become industry leaders.
Regarding newer volvos (anything after 240), I know nothing. Even before
becoming a part of Ford, Volvo had become a different company...
In any event, like Edfan, I have seen some bad dealer service depts.
Especially back in the 60's and 70's, when Volvo dealerships and trained
mechanics were few and far between. But, along the way, I also found some
mechanics who were "in sync" with the Volvo philosophy of conscientious
owner maintenance responsibilities. Just grab an owner's manual of a 60's
122s or early 70's 140, and look at the recommended regular maintenance
items. Nothing short of an intimate involvement with your automobile.
Freaky, but in its Swedish sort of way, rewarding...
In other words, Andrew, if you are the "lease it new for 2 yrs and trade for
another new model every 24 months" kind of guy, then an 1800 is not for you.
Expect to do a lot of basic maintenance yourself. Expect to find mechanics
that don't want to touch it (for one reason, all work is a brand new
research project for them, they don't have the service manuals, and they
spend all their time searching for and waiting a week for repair parts to
arrive - all of which is non-charge-able). Expect to develop some new
mechanical skills that you previously lacked, along with an inventory of
basic tools. Expect to develop a heightened sense of your own limitations,
as well as others', when determining what you can do, what others can do.
Closely listen to the advice of others who are restoring or have restored
1800's to running condition (see web site addresses from my previous post).
Edfan, listen up, get off that horse you're riding, it seems to have chapped
your ass a little raw.
On the other hand, Andrew, it sounds like you might be an older Volvo kind
of guy. The 1800, like the 140 and the 122s before, is a very simple car.
(Hey, watch out with the rotten tomatoes! - the SU carbs and the Bosch fuel
injection is not all that mysterious!) Like the GM and Ford muscle cars of
the 60's, these are the last cars that you and I can work on. Everything
since then has become circuit boards and silicon chips. Nothing left to
tighten to 70 lbs. with a torque wrench. Plastic radiators!, What the hell
is that?! No style. On the money side, assuming you can become a decent
parts scavenger, it is a lot less expensive than a new Volvo, or even a new
ford taurus, assuming your initial purchase is around $6k or $7k for a model
in good condition, not concealed rust-rotting away condition. BE SURE TO
GET A QUALIFIED INSPECTION IF YOU ARE DOUBTFUL OF YOUR SKILLS IN THIS AREA.
When the inspecting mechanic lists a bunch of minor work that needs
attention and tries to dissuade you from purchase, follow your heart.
That's All,
Pat Quadlander
Andrew Fischer <fisc...@cts.com> wrote in message
Daniel the Red
DS
Joseph Oberlander
Only the Transmission and Cooling systems are hard to deal with, and
most reliable mechanics can do it efficiently.
Don't tell me you actually went back to a mechanic who joyrode your
awesome car...
I am currently looking at obtaining a very good and fixable 122s and the
thing is a *lot* more bulletproof than my ancient Buicks were. You want
to talk about repairs? Heh - those early 80's Buicks have you beat.
They are nice and reliable now, though. Almost everyone makes a decently
reliable vehicle nowadays. In fact, I remember an article where they
compared something like a Camry V6 to a top-end Mustang(factory) from
the 60's and the Camry out everything'd it due to advances in engines
and suspension and materials.
OTOH, I don't like the new Volvos as they smell and feel overpriced and
cheap. $35K should get you a real car, afterall.
Lastly, if you really hate it, have a sale and make someone else happy.
There are terribly few of these out there and I for one would love to
have one if I could afford it.(I went the children and house way... :) )
Joseph Oberlander
> Why would you take a old Volvo to the dealer?! They deal in new cars; you're
> absolutely right - they don't care about the old ones, why should they?
> However; parts availability is fantastic for older Volvos (Unless Ford has
> changed things; you can still get some PV544 parts from the dealer). And,
> while experienced service is nice; it's not totally necessary for the older
> Volvos - they're not much different than most other European cars of that
> vintage; not much different from most domestics for that matter (at least,
> not different enough that any half-brained mechanic couldn't do effective
> work on it).
This is what I wondered. Why not take it to another mechanic? They
order the parts and install it. I took my 164E to a transmission shop
and they didn't blink at it being an old Volvo. I actually get most
of my current work done at a place that specializes in American cars
and it works great as parts are parts.
Btw, if you ever need the injectors fixed on a 1800/164E, just go to
someone who fixes Datsun/Nissan, as the setup is nearly identical to a
200-series ZX. The person next door had one and we looked at the
parts - same equipment and layout under the hood.(almost part-for part)
Joseph Oberlander
>
> Edfan is upset because he cannot get the service he needs to keep the
> car running without totaling wasting his pocketbook. I've been there,
> done that, and it IS frustrating. Telling him there are great
> mechanics just around the corner, he got ripped, yada yada yada,
> really don't help.
I've been there too, but he sounds like he all but hates his car,
so I wonder why he doesn't just sell it to someone who will have
the time and decent resources around them to restore and keep it
running?
He can then get nice 240 as a replacement. These are simple and
any decent mechanic can work on them. Parts are also plentiful.
I had an old 84 Buick Regal years ago that I hated and was just
a slug. The day that I sold it and bought my 18-year-old(at the time)
164E was one of the happiest in my life. A huge weight was lifted from
me as I left it to someone else to deal with. Not that the car was
really a bad car, but I was fried on it and there was no more joy,
so it was time to move on.
Driving should be fun, not a chore, and there are thousands of types
of vehicles to choose from. Go find one that makes you young again :)
TheCritic
> > > Volvo has abandoned the old cars.
> > Complete crap.
> Oh, really? And where were YOU when I came in here a few weeks ago
> asking for names of mechanics for this vehicle?
What; like I know mechanics in San Diego?!
> YOU are full of crap. They've lost interest in this car, they're
> Fords now.
Define 'lost interest'. I can still get even the most obscure parts for my
'86 240 (a power door lock connecting rod for the drivers door (a part that
isn't even used on US 240s) for example was at my dealer's parts counter
overnight.) Ask anyone here if they've ever been unble to source a part for
their car from Volvo. AFAIK - Ford hasn't changed this (yet, at least).
> > > The
> > > local dealer has nobody who CAN service them and they don't care
anyway.
> > Why would you take a old Volvo to the dealer?!
> GEE, pardon the hell out of me for taking a Volvo to a Volvo
dealer,
> everybody knows they must go to Seattle.
Dealers deal in new cars. Period. It's not profitable for them to work on
older cars - they don't know any more than your typical european car
mechanic. They make up for this by blindly replacing parts and charging you
out the ass for labor. You found this out. They're great for parts - but
there's no reason to go to them for service.
> Yeah, right - that's why the local Volvo junk yard said they had
> zero parts for Volvos this old. He must be lying too, same as everybody
but
> you and your little hate cadre. Everybody paying the bills is lying. YOU
> know better. It's too bloody bad you guys don't pay the bills.
I don't pay the bills... Sure... If you can't get any farther than your
local junkyard; you aren't even trying.
> > -So; as always; if you want it done right, do it yourself.
>
> Which is EXACTLY what people buying these old cars must consider!
> Which was my major point.
Or find a good mechanic. This is not hard.
> I dunno what kind of button I pushed by telling the simple truth
> but REALLY, you guys are a bit much. What reason do I have to lie like a
> rug? I'm relating a story MANY people could tell - if they cared enough to
> go online with it. I gain ZERO from telling lies. I'm hurt and upset and
> VERY ticked off at being made a target when I'm the one paying the
> bills ----
What is this 'paying the bills' shit? I pay bills too - that's why I don't
go to the freaking dealer!
Look - you want mechanic reccomendations? Go here:
http://cartalk.cars.com/About/Garage/intro.html
They even have a junkyard listing: http://cartalk.cars.com/About/Recyclers/
Then there's the brickboard; they've also got a ton of listings...
http://www.brickboard.com/connections/
Besides that - there's always the PHONE BOOK.
-Justin
S Curry
> Define 'lost interest'. I can still get even the most obscure parts for my
> '86 240 (a power door lock connecting rod for the drivers door (a part that
> isn't even used on US 240s) for example was at my dealer's parts counter
> overnight.) Ask anyone here if they've ever been unble to source a part for
> their car from Volvo. AFAIK - Ford hasn't changed this (yet, at least).
My local Volvo dealer has a passionate disinterest in helping with parts
for my 164. I went in with a discrete list of parts I needed when the
head gasket wanted replacing, but in three weeks they were neither able to
procure the parts, nor to even confirm the possibility of obtaining
them. When I called them back three days after initially ordering, they
informed me that they could check on it and get back to me, which was the
same thing they had told me when I first went in. I guess they thought I
was kidding or something.
I called the guy at Volpar, who checked his shelves while I waited, and
got the parts two days later.
My local Volvo dealer is a nice place to drive by and rue, but little
else.
Andy
Honolulu, Hawaii
Andrew Fischer
made within the last 25 years.
Would someone who knows for certain care to confirm or correct me.
>> their car from Volvo. AFAIK - Ford hasn't changed this (yet, at least).
Hmmm. I doubt Ford goes back that far... I do remember looking for a spedo
cable housing for a (then) 20 year old Thunderbird. Part was obsolete, but
local Ford dealer looked around for us and found one at another dealer.
> My local Volvo dealer has a passionate disinterest in helping with parts
> for my 164.
This could have a lot to do with your local dealer / counterman and not
Volvo in general...
> From: S Curry <scu...@hawaii.edu>
> Organization: University of Hawaii
> Newsgroups: alt.autos.volvo
> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:49:54 -1000
> Subject: Re: 1800 ES as daily driver????
>
John T. Horner
"S Curry" <scu...@hawaii.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.0008250938260.12350-100000@uhunix3...
>
> My local Volvo dealer has a passionate disinterest in helping with parts
> for my 164.
This is not just a Volvo issue. Try getting parts for a 25+ year old
anything at the dealer for a given model. I know from personal experience
that Jaguar and Cadillac dealers are useless for parts more than 10-15 years
old.
John
P8...@webtv.net
MINUTE...MY GIRLFRIEND SAW A 1973 164 SITTING BESIDE THE ROAD HERE IN
BACK WOODS OREGON...FOR SALE...400 BUCKS....62,000 ORIG MILES..BOUGHT ON
SIGHT...JUST CUZ IT WAS THE COLOR OF THE TREES HERE...I USED IT TO
COMMUTE 100MILES EACH DAY FROM 4000FT TO THE VALLEY BELOW..EARLY BOSCH
FUEL INJECTION...RUNS 135 MPH ALL DAY LONG WITH IN LINE SIX/AUTOMATIC.
WE LIVE 7 MILES UP A LOGGING ROAD....CAN'T KILL IT..RACED MY BUDS
CORVETTE..STAYED ON HIS ASS FOR 20 MILES THRU THE MOUNTAINS......THE
ONLY PROB WE HAVE HAD IS WHEN SERVICE STATION ATTENDENT PUT DISEL IN IT
BY MISTAKE...DIDN'T GO 100FT...WELL GOOD LUCK, GUESS WE GOT YOURS LATER