Volvo 850 Life Expectancy?
jade...@my-deja.com
miles on it. How long, on average, can I expect such a car to last? I
live in the Northeast U.S., and put about 12-15,000 miles/year on a car.
It will be garaged indoors.
Incidentally the alterative I'm considering is a new Toyota Siena
minivan, which costs about $5,000 more than the used Volvo.
Thank you.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
DANA SILJESTROM
At least here in Sweden that whats considered to be "the average life time"
of the engine (if treated normally bad) before a mayor repair/refurbishment
is needed.
jade...@my-deja.com skrev i meddelandet <7ojttj$jnu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Jess
but I can't add to that group. I have a '96 850 Turbo. I got it in
September 1995 (and so, I've had it for almost 4 years now). It has 44,000
miles on it (granted, not a huge number), and it still runs like it's new.
I've never regretted the purchase. It's a great car.
Something else you might want to consider is the comfort level this car
provides. I've driven my 850 from New York to Atlanta and back twice.
While the trip is long and can be tiring, I've never been the slightest bit
sore from all those hours in the driver's seat. That's more than I can say
for even two-hour rides in most other cars. I can't speak for Toyota, but
a friend who had a Honda Accord and does regular drives from Atlanta to
Wichita, Kansas, switched to a Volvo 850 and hasn't stopped thanking me for
the recommendation. She used to get sore and tired on the trips but says
that all changed since she got the 850.
Just my $0.02. Hope it helps. :)
--Jess
Lee Meyer wrote:
> In article <7opt0r$kbg$1...@zingo.tninet.se>,
> "DANA SILJESTROM" <ihw...@tninet.se> wrote:
> > You can probably get around a quarter of a million US miles from your
> 850.
> > At least here in Sweden that whats considered to be "the average life
> time"
> > of the engine (if treated normally bad) before a mayor
> repair/refurbishment
> > is needed.
> >
>
> As I noted in my prior post, we've not been happy with our 850. I would
> agree, however, that the engine is a nice piece of engineering, and
> maybe you could put 250,000 miles on it. I would be happy to get that
> on ours. The problem is that, at that point, I'm pretty sure all we'd
> have left is the engine. The rest of the car would have long since
> disintigrated.
>
> Again, I don't want to get anyone here mad, and I assume there are a
> lot of loyal Volvo owners on this forum. But I feel obligated to point
> out that my car has been a great disappointment (obligated because I
> have benefitted greatly from the honesty of other people on various
> News Groups like this).
>
> It's funny, too, because now I notice a lot of other 850 and V70 series
> cars with little problems (like tail lights and headlights out or
> loosed trim on essentially new cars). Makes me wonder if I really got a
> lemon (my original thought) or if the high marks this car received in
> Consumer Reports are more a reflection of what Volvo used to be than
> what it is today.
>
> --
> Lee Meyer
> lme...@snet.net
Lee Meyer
jade...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I am considering the purchase of a used 1996 Volvo 850 Wagon with
45,000
> miles on it. How long, on average, can I expect such a car to last?
I
> live in the Northeast U.S., and put about 12-15,000 miles/year on a
car.
> It will be garaged indoors.
>
> minivan, which costs about $5,000 more than the used Volvo.
>
> Thank you.
>
For what it's worth, I think the Toyota would be a better buy. We have
a 1995 Volvo 850. The car is fun to drive and really hauls a ton of
stuff without breaking a sweat, but I am VERY disappointed in the
quality. We've spent a small fortune keeping the thing in good repair.
I'm pretty new to this forum and really haven't spent a lot of time
looking at what others think of the 850 series. But based on my
experience, I would not buy another.
In contrast, my 91 Toyota Camry runs like a champ. My friend's Sienna
(which I convinced him to buy over the 850) seems to be a really nice
car. Don't know how well it will hold up, but I would guess quite well.
Just my opinion.
Lee Meyer
--
Lee Rothman
new one. I bought it new (32 miles on it) and have only used Mobil One in
it from the beginning. I travel for a living and can't imagine seats this
nice. At my last major maintenance (200,000) it was determined to be
still in factory new spec for compression and overall condition. The
interior is indeed just like it was as new (I don't have rug rats, dogs
or cats so that helps). It is about to celebrate it's 5th birthday since
I bought it.
FunChgoGuy
jeffj...@yahoo.com
I bought my 1994 850 Turbo from
the dealer (41k miles)and I too
have spent a small fortune on
upkeep and maintenance. Yet,
some of the money that I poured
into the car was for thngs I
thought I would never have to
replace. Both power seat cables
went at the same time, I had to
replace the "lower control arm".
Other minor but costly repairs
included (but not the least)
"dash lights", interior switch
lights and the headliner on the
sun-shade. There are a handful
of mechanical things that have also
gone wrong; Oxygen sensors, etc....
I cringe everytime I take it in
for service because they always find
something else wrong.
I am beginning to think
they are going to name their
new boat after me (TIC)! However,
when the car runs - it runs great.
Jeff
Lee Meyer
stuff, some big stuff, and everytime I take it in I'm afraid to see the
bill. But like you say, when it's running, it's a nice car.
All and all, though, I view it as a bad purchase. My wife, who drives
it, strongly disagreed at first, but after being left stranded a few
times, is coming around. No more Volvos for us.
--
Lee Meyer
lme...@snet.net
WW
spent so much on one vehicle in all my days. All the dash lights have
burnt out including the switches and climate control module. Front dash
stereo speaker blew when I powered it on one day. The remote mirror
position switches became flaky and had to be changed out. At 115,000 Kms
the right front brake caliper seized at 120 Km/h and scored the rotor -
the left just seized up at 140,000 Kms. The oxygen sensors failed and
required replacing - $800 CDN. @ 130,000 Kms. The air-conditioning
evaporator developed a leak and by law could not be recharged until it
was replaced - $1500 CDN. The radiator now has a small leak in the tank
but I'll wait till it gets bigger before I shell out the $1100 CDN that
the dealer wants to replace it. Before anyone points a finger and says
these repairs were from lack of maintenance... I have taken my car in at
every scheduled period and also between times when something fails. It
has never seen another garage except the Volvo dealer where I purchased
it. They have been very accommodating and fair with the repairs but
still - a Volvo is supposed to be a well built machine - not a Chevy! If
you're considering buying a used 850, think about the total cost to keep
it not just the purchase price.
WW
jeffj...@yahoo.com wrote:
Pete Lega
rear discs, tires) Car was european delivery and prepped at the
factory...which
I think gave it a better start in life. Liked it so much I got another 95
850T 34K, which
other than brake wear is also fine.
-pete
WW wrote in message <37B1B61B...@sympatico.ca>...
Jess
postings, a new thought has occurred to me.
I wonder if the quality of service has something to do with the different
experiences. Sure, some failures (like dash lights, etc.) may have nothing
to do with service quality. Still, some of the problems might have been
prevented by better maintenance. That or (and I hate to say this) some
problems may have been created by those who should be protecting your
investment. Now, this may not be true at all, but whenever this type of
thread starts on any car, I see such widely varying opinions that I wonder
what else may be a factor--like a mechanic who knows how to start a little
problem so that with time it will blossom and your car will limp back in
with a big one.
Am I too cynical? Maybe, but I've seen it happen (not with my Volvo, but
it happens). I've had nothing but great experiences with my dealer's
service, but my best friend's mother had a Volvo dealer do a terrible job
with her car, and they treated her horribly. As I said, it may not apply
to anyone here, but it is something to consider.
--Jess
Lee Meyer wrote:
> In article <7os435$bkv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Jeff, that's been exactly the same experience I've had. Lots of small
> stuff, some big stuff, and everytime I take it in I'm afraid to see the
> bill. But like you say, when it's running, it's a nice car.
>
> All and all, though, I view it as a bad purchase. My wife, who drives
> it, strongly disagreed at first, but after being left stranded a few
> times, is coming around. No more Volvos for us.
>
> --
> Lee Meyer
> lme...@snet.net
>
Four Weis
driving my '82, granted it is NOT an 850, but I would still buy another
Volvo. My wife wanted a mini-van, and we picked the Sienna as one of the
best. But there is the BIG BUT before you decide to get the Sienna. Do you
need or just want the extra room? Here are the negatives for the Sienna, I
am sure you have already heard all of the negatives for the 850.
1. Mileage in the city is terrible - 16 to 18 mpg
2. Handles like a van - rolls on turns and the front end dips on braking
3. Takes longer to stop than my old '82 Volvo
4. Has ABS brakes, but still has rear drums
5. The roof rack is worthless on the Sienna - too high and too weak
I cannot answer about the durability of the Sienna, we only have 3000 miles
on it so far.
jade...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I am considering the purchase of a used 1996 Volvo 850 Wagon with 45,000
> miles on it. How long, on average, can I expect such a car to last? I
> live in the Northeast U.S., and put about 12-15,000 miles/year on a car.
> It will be garaged indoors.
>
> Incidentally the alterative I'm considering is a new Toyota Siena
> minivan, which costs about $5,000 more than the used Volvo.
>
> Thank you.
>
have gun will travel
One year ago, I bought a 95 850 Turbo sedan, at 24,000 miles. I have had to
repair the following,
heated seat, engine mount, headlight wiper, accesory light for the stick
shift, winter mode select (2 times) and the cassette player.
Fortunately, all were replaced under warranty. Now I am sitting at 61,000
miles with no warranty( I travel on business) I am now praying that nothing
more will happen, other than the usual wear out parts.
So what if the engine will last 250,000 miles. I will go broke fixing this
thing.
Any suggestions?
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
ksbhhb
We have had a long series of horrible experiences with our 93 850. There
are simply too many problems to list here. The latest is a complete
transmission failure (at 53000 miles) which left us stranded on a dirt road
in Vermont (on our vacation) on a Sunday. The car was towed to Keene, NH,
where they took over 2 weeks to diagnose the problem and replace the
transmission (for a mere $2500). After renting a car to drive up from NYC
to pick up the car, the transmission failed again as soon as we got home.
So now the car has been at the Volvo dealer in Yonkers, NY, where it has
been sitting for two more weeks with no end in sight. They are in no hurry
to replace the transmission again -- it is "on order." We have found that
the dealers we have encountered have a very arrogant "take it or leave it
attitude". I very much doubt that when you go to a showroom to look at new
Volvos, the sales staff mentions that it takes about 3 weeks to get a
service appointment (in our area at least).
By the way, why does Volvo only have rebuilt transmissions to replace their
broken ones? -- Volvo of N. America said there is no such thing as a new
one.
This is our first and last Volvo!
-Kathy
Jess <je...@erols.com> wrote in message news:37B13357...@erols.com...
adrial
my opinion.
People that visit this newsgroup generally have problems with their cars,
correct?
So you wouldn't be getting all the people with cars that are running great
responding to this thread.
I would much rather have a car that has a lot of minor problems, than have a
car with a lot of major problems as i'm sure most of you would.
A year or so ago, a friend of mine had a 94 ford explorer, it was driven
very gently and given routine maintinence. The thing was a piece of crap, it
had constant electrical problems (stuff drained the battery while the car
wasn't running), it rattled badly and on a 4 hour trip to vermont the check
engine light repeatedly came on for no reason, and before it was sold, the
exhaust stunk and had a major problem somewhere in the exhaust. All this and
yet the 94 explorer got very good reviews from consumer reports, the point
of all this is that sometimes ya getta lemon and sometimes ya getta perfect
car.
I am a very loyal volvo consumer
TKART
love it), he said that most people love the car every once and a wile he
will find people having major mechanical problems with them, he can't figure
out why. He said that allot of people get these cars serviced at garages
that don't know Volvos, he went on to say that when Volvos break it is
usually something minor that leads people to believe that it is something
major, so unfortunately they pay the major price. He also said it could be
blamed on the way people drive there cars if you drive your car hard it will
have problems if you take care of it it will not. But overall he says that
the 850 is one of the best cars Volvo has ever made, despite the few lemons
out there. Just my mechanics 2 cents.
Tory
DANA SILJESTROM wrote in message <7opt0r$kbg$1...@zingo.tninet.se>...
>You can probably get around a quarter of a million US miles from your 850.
>At least here in Sweden that whats considered to be "the average life time"
>of the engine (if treated normally bad) before a mayor repair/refurbishment
>is needed.
>
>
Rick M
"adrial" <adr...@cloud9.net> wrote:
> People that visit this newsgroup generally have problems with their
cars,
> correct?
> So you wouldn't be getting all the people with cars that are running
great
> responding to this thread.
We bought our 850 used, and have been quiet happy with it.
The 850 replaced an 87 Camry, which suffered the abuse of a home health
nurse, meaning frequent "cop stops", an assortment of fender benders as
well as a 45mph jump over a set of railroad tracks. We had a daughter
in January (2 months early) and since my wife was leaving the home
health field, I decided to get the 850.
My complaints:
-I hate the placement of the cup holders in the '95
-a few misc rattles, probably from the assortment of baby equipment
that is in the car
-mileage, we get in the lower 20s when the AC is cranking on high. Not
too bad, but she was used to the Camry getting in the mid 30s.
My favorites:
-comfortable driving area. I'm about 6' and fairly stocky, and I can
actually move around in here w/o hitting something. I like the armrest
on the doors...
-performance: I can crank up the AC on high, and still accelerate
without a huge performance increase
-ride: the ride is great. I can feel some bumps in the road, but it's a
nice blend of smoothness and performance.
-visibility: my wife, who is 5' tall, can see out of this car better
than anything she's ever owned.
-access: the rear passenger area is room...even with the seat way back,
I can still put my feet on the floor and not have my knees jammed into
the back of the front seat. This is handy when strapping the baby in
her car seat.
The Camry was a nice car until it started to suffer from prolonged wear
and tear. My present car, an '87 Daytona, still runs like it did when
it was new, needing only scheduled maintenance to be happy. And
Consumer Reports hated them. 3 trips to the shop....brakes once, timing
belts at 55 and 110K.
Look at the 850. See if you can talk to the previous owner to get his
take on the car. Check out carfax.com for a "history" of it. Get the
dealer to let you have it over a w/e before you buy.
Good luck with whatever you get!
--
Rick M
1995 850, 5 Speed, Emerald, 72K
Lee Meyer
je...@erols.com wrote:
I wonder if the quality of service has something to do with the
different
experiences. Sure, some failures (like dash lights, etc.) may have
nothing
> to do with service quality. Still, some of the problems might have
been
> prevented by better maintenance. That or (and I hate to say this)
some
> problems may have been created by those who should be protecting your
> investment.
Just wanted to clarify this point. I've taken excellent care of all my
cars. I come from a family of pilots and folks who take good care of
their equipment. In fact, some people think I border on obsessive when
it comes to caring for my machines.
In my 26 years of driving, I've owned exactly 4 cars: a 1971 Plymouth
Valiant, a 1991 Mazda GLC, my current 91 Camry and the 95 Volvo. Drove
them all for at least 10 years (for the Camry I'm sure I'll get to 10).
The only one I have any doubts about is the Volvo.
To be sure, since my wife and kids use the Volvo, it gets more beat up,
but aside from lots of loose interior trim (which I do attribute to the
kids), none of our problems can be attributed to poor maintenance or
mis-use.
Sorry, but this isn't me. It's the car.
-
Lee Meyer
lme...@snet.net
Lee Meyer
I should also have added, that I know enough about cars and mechanics
to feel very comfortable that it's not my mechanic who's either (1)
failing to do work properly or (2) creating problems that don't exist.
Again, it's not the mechanic. It's the car.
> I added to this thread already, but after reading more of the negative
> postings, a new thought has occurred to me.
>
> I wonder if the quality of service has something to do with the
different
> experiences. Sure, some failures (like dash lights, etc.) may have
nothing
> to do with service quality. Still, some of the problems might have
been
> prevented by better maintenance. That or (and I hate to say this)
some
> problems may have been created by those who should be protecting your
> > Lee Meyer
> > lme...@snet.net
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
>
>
--
Lee Meyer
have gun will travel <anon...@web.remarq.com> wrote:
> ONE MORE THOUGHT ON 850.
>
> One year ago, I bought a 95 850 Turbo sedan, at 24,000 miles. I have
had to
> repair the following,
>
> heated seat, engine mount, headlight wiper, accesory light for the
stick
> shift, winter mode select (2 times) and the cassette player.
>
> Fortunately, all were replaced under warranty. Now I am sitting at
61,000
> miles with no warranty( I travel on business) I am now praying that
nothing
> more will happen, other than the usual wear out parts.
>
> So what if the engine will last 250,000 miles. I will go broke
fixing this
> thing.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
850 for as long as we can. As I noted before, I do like the car when
it's running.
The whole reason I posted to this thread was because I reacted the same
way to the message about the engine lasting for 250,000 miles. So what?
Good luck. Here's hoping it holds together.
Lee Meyer
Sorry you're having such bad luck with your car AND your dealer.
I will say one thing. Our dealer ("Connecticut's Own"-- not my idea of
a good name, but then I'm not in marketing) has been pretty good. At
least once, when I screamed about a $1,400 bill, they cut the bill
substantially. Also we don't have to wait more than a week to get in
usually. Still as you said, this is our first and last Volvo.
HK
reservations about my 84 850 Turbo.
BTW, I'm a Canadian too (Toronto area). I got my car serviced at Swedish
Motors on King St., but I'm not that confident about their service. I find
them a bit impersonal. Where do you go?
WW <wilki...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:37B1B61B...@sympatico.ca...
> My 94 850 turbo now has 162,000 Kms on the clock and I too have never
> spent so much on one vehicle in all my days. All the dash lights have
> burnt out including the switches and climate control module. Front dash
> stereo speaker blew when I powered it on one day. The remote mirror
> position switches became flaky and had to be changed out. At 115,000 Kms
> the right front brake caliper seized at 120 Km/h and scored the rotor -
> the left just seized up at 140,000 Kms. The oxygen sensors failed and
> required replacing - $800 CDN. @ 130,000 Kms. The air-conditioning
> evaporator developed a leak and by law could not be recharged until it
> was replaced - $1500 CDN. The radiator now has a small leak in the tank
> but I'll wait till it gets bigger before I shell out the $1100 CDN that
> the dealer wants to replace it. Before anyone points a finger and says
> these repairs were from lack of maintenance... I have taken my car in at
> every scheduled period and also between times when something fails. It
> has never seen another garage except the Volvo dealer where I purchased
> it. They have been very accommodating and fair with the repairs but
> still - a Volvo is supposed to be a well built machine - not a Chevy! If
> you're considering buying a used 850, think about the total cost to keep
> it not just the purchase price.
>
> WW
>
TKART
850 and they have had almost no problems with the car, and as the add says
they are Volvo for life. Our mechanic said the same thing that every once
and a wile he sees people having tons and tons of trouble with these cars,
but 95% of the time people have almost to no trouble with them at all and
they swear by them.
Tory
Lee Meyer wrote in message <7oqkc0$ahh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>850.
>> At least here in Sweden that whats considered to be "the average life
>time"
>> of the engine (if treated normally bad) before a mayor
>repair/refurbishment
>> is needed.
>>
>
>agree, however, that the engine is a nice piece of engineering, and
>maybe you could put 250,000 miles on it. I would be happy to get that
>on ours. The problem is that, at that point, I'm pretty sure all we'd
>have left is the engine. The rest of the car would have long since
>disintigrated.
>
>Again, I don't want to get anyone here mad, and I assume there are a
>lot of loyal Volvo owners on this forum. But I feel obligated to point
>out that my car has been a great disappointment (obligated because I
>have benefitted greatly from the honesty of other people on various
>News Groups like this).
>
>It's funny, too, because now I notice a lot of other 850 and V70 series
>cars with little problems (like tail lights and headlights out or
>loosed trim on essentially new cars). Makes me wonder if I really got a
>lemon (my original thought) or if the high marks this car received in
>Consumer Reports are more a reflection of what Volvo used to be than
>what it is today.
>
>--
>Lee Meyer
>lme...@snet.net
>
>
ssc...@my-deja.com
Volvo 850 Wagon with 45,000
> miles on it. How long, on average, can I
expect such a car to last? I
> live in the Northeast U.S., and put about 12-
15,000 miles/year on a car.
> It will be garaged indoors.
>
a new Toyota Siena
> minivan, which costs about $5,000 more than the
used Volvo.
>
> Thank you.
>
I have a 97 850 T5 with 115K miles on it - my
third Volvo. I love it. Mine was a local car,
bought and traded back in at the dealer. I had a
documented service history at the local dealer,
so I knew abot everything in the car's history.
I suggest that if you buy a used car of this
vintage that you look for the same kind of
documented ownership and service history, as
there is not much factory warranty left on the
car you describe. The only significant failure I
have experienced (ABS control unit) was factored
into the purchase price becuase I saw a history
of intermittent problems in the history and knew
I would be replacing it.
Other than that, an upper engine mount, which is
commonly replaced in the 75K-100K mile range and
warped rear brake rotors (a common but easily
corrected problem) have been my only unscheduled
items.
I think the real key is to find either an
exceptional dealer or an excellent independent
shop that specializes ONLY in Volvos and perform
all of the maintenance they recommend along the
way. If you do this, and repair things as they
break, you will eventually have a high mileage
car that still looks, feels and drives like new.
In my mind, that is what separates the Volvo from
many other makes - not only do they last a long
time, but they age well if they are maintained.
I find that I have had far fewer surprises at
independent shops than at dealers, although there
are good dealers out there.
Take care of the leather - be sure to treat it
periodically so it doesn't dry out & crack, and
even though Volvo doesn't say to do it, have the
transmission fluid flushed & replaced
periodically - I am told this will extend the
life of the transmission.
As a road car, I have never driven anything less
fatiguing - My wife's 97 Accord kills me on
trips. The safety of the Volvo is another
selling point to me - without meaning to start
any arguments, I think it is fair to say that it
is certainly one of the safest cars out there.
It's weight gives it an advantage over many other
cars in an accident. ( I totalled my first Volvo
& was at work within an hour - not a scratch, at
least on me.)
Sorry for the long post, but I would personally
buy the Volvo for reasons of safety, comfort and
durability, knowing that I will pay for
maintenance but have the car for a very long time.
DANA SILJESTROM
called main Volvo Service Garage´s has decreased drastically over the last
decades (and it was never state-of-the-art to start with). This goes both
regarding repair/service of the car and the treatment one gets from the
personell. The reason is/was that the car sells itself and that people in
this region withstand/tolerate a higher level of misstreatment than average
people.
If you buy a brand new Volvo here, you have no choice but to use the so
called Volvo Service guys until time, weather and your wife have turned your
"pearl" into a normal car. This is due to Warranty, Guarantee, Second hand
value etc etc.
Towards your car´s "midlife" you can start to utilize the smaller services
companies who are much more "caring", cheaper & nicer to do business with.
The treatment one gets at most Volvo dealers here in Sweden is p - - spoor
and sometimes it seems like a business idea ! Perhaps it´s more spread then
just in this rural part of the world i.e. the Land of Vikings ???
Just to give a recent incident from Stockholm´s (Capitol of Sweden) mayor
Volvo Service Depot, when my "pearl" (855 -95) had her 40000 clicks
service - Parts from the interiour (parts NOT even included in the 40000
clicks service envelope) demonstrably dissapeared during the service visit
!!!!
Bottom line - I agree totally with you Jess.
Jess skrev i meddelandet <37B13357...@erols.com>...
Caren
I'm coming into this discussion late, so I missed the beginning of it,
but I'd like to say that I've had way more problems with my '93 850
(112,000 miles) than my son (typical teenage driver) has with his '83
Subaru. I've had to replace the transmission, I've had a mysterious
smell that took replacing most of the emissions system to finally fix,
and the AC has conked twice. But by far, the problem that irks me the
most is that the doors start making a horrible snapping noise after just
so much use. I've had to have the driver's side door taken off twice and
rewelded and it's got to go in for a third time now! The rider's side
door is beginning to have the same problem. The last body shop I went to
said that the problem is that the doors are bolted to sheet metal that's
not strong enough to support them, so eventually it gives way and the
doors start to sag a little and make horrible noises when they open and
close. He said they all do it eventually. One thing I didn't expect when
I bought my Volvo is that the doors would fall off! Never again!
Caren
DANA SILJESTROM
sworfps skrev i meddelandet <37b6fac7....@news.supernews.com>...
>That's a new one! I've been watching all the various 850 problems here
>for a while, and never saw this door problem before. Is this body shop
>you took the car to experienced at all in volvo repair? Volvos are
>built with thicker sheet metal than almost any other car, so I doubt
>that's the real problem. There might be some rust issues perhaps.
>
>Is anyone else here experiencing problems with their 850 doors
>sagging?
I had to re-tighten the bolts (door to hinges) on the driveræ„€ side door on
my -95 855 recently. Experienced before the "readjustment" strange noices
during opening and closing of the door.
Caren
and the second by a body shop that specializes in foreign cars and does a
lot of Volvos. They claim to see a lot of Volvo door problems.
Caren
sworfps wrote:
> That's a new one! I've been watching all the various 850 problems here
> for a while, and never saw this door problem before. Is this body shop
> you took the car to experienced at all in volvo repair? Volvos are
> built with thicker sheet metal than almost any other car, so I doubt
> that's the real problem. There might be some rust issues perhaps.
>
> Is anyone else here experiencing problems with their 850 doors
> sagging?
>
> I had a 71 142 for a while, and it had a similar problem, but it was
> because of rust.
Caren
Jess
conceivable problem had happened to some of the owners. After all, every car
maker (_every_ one) makes some lemons. It happens. If I had experienced all
of the problems that some on this group have, my 850T would have been long
gone. Happily, my car has been wonderful to me. I'd tend to think that most
Volvo owners love their cars, but I'm certain (and was certain long before
this thread) that the same couldn't be said for every Volvo owner. (If it
makes anyone feel better, I've known people with nasty Toyotas and Hondas
too--sometimes you get a bad one!)
Lee Rothman
if you get into a significant crackup with a Honda auto, you will be
taking a "dirt nap" if you catch my drift. They don't hold up worth s@it
in a significant accident. Heck, I have seen some 25mph accidents with a
Accord and it was nearly totalled. I wouldn't want to see anything worse,
let alone the person in it.
FunChgoGuy
seen it happen right before my eyes. What would happen if the car was
rear-ended at 40mph? Mechanically, it is a reliable car. Structurally, I
think it is very weak. With the Volvo, you get the best of both worlds. It
is REALLY that simple.
ssc...@my-deja.com
In article <37B734E5...@sgi.net>,
Caren <dri...@sgi.net> wrote:
> The first repair was by the Volvo dealer (back when we had a Volvo
dealer)
> and the second by a body shop that specializes in foreign cars and
does a
> lot of Volvos. They claim to see a lot of Volvo door problems.
>
> Caren
>
Lee Meyer
je...@erols.com wrote:
> I'd be willing to bet that a survey of every Volvo owner would find
every
> conceivable problem had happened to some of the owners. After all,
every car
> maker (_every_ one) makes some lemons. It happens. If I had
experienced all
> of the problems that some on this group have, my 850T would have been
long
> gone. Happily, my car has been wonderful to me. I'd tend to think
that most
> Volvo owners love their cars, but I'm certain (and was certain long
before
> this thread) that the same couldn't be said for every Volvo owner.
(If it
> makes anyone feel better, I've known people with nasty Toyotas and
Hondas
> too--sometimes you get a bad one!)
Of course every car manufacturer produces the occasional lemon.
However, I would make two points.
First, a lot of other people seem to be having the same kinds of
problems I am, which makes me suspect there are design and/or systemic
manufacturing issues. I think this is somewhat borne out by Consumer
Reports, which does not give the 850 its highest mark for reliablity,
but rather it's second highest mark (almost all Toyotas get the highest
mark).
Second, I expect more from a car that costs as much as an 850, and this
makes direct comparisions to Toyotas somewhat misleading.
If I spend a lot more for my Volvo than my neighbor does for her
Toyota, and we have the same kind of problems, I think I'll be more
upset than she will.
--
Lee Meyer
lme...@snet.net
Lee Meyer
I'm not sure the latest government crash tests bear this out.
Lee Meyer
have proven NOT to be reliable. Also, I think the Toyota Sienna's crash
test results beat every Volvo.
TKART
says, I would rather be in an accident in a Volvo than in any Toyota any
day. I think the Toyota was designed to get good ratings on that crash
test(offset). Maybe because the car it replaced, the Previa got the worst
ratting ever. Second, As for reliability, that is the only reason to buy a
Toyota, it will get to 100K and have no major problems. That is one reason
to buy a Volvo, but no one ever said Volvo has bullet proof reliability like
Toyotas(or any other car maker for that matter). But there are many other
reasons to get a Volvo safety, durability, comfort, and not to mention
mechanical innovation, that Toyota cannot compare with.
Lee Meyer wrote in message <7pc6c6$a3g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Lee Meyer
"TKART" <TKart...@home.com> wrote:
> I would like to say two things. First, I don't care what any
crash test
> says, I would rather be in an accident in a Volvo than in any Toyota
any
> day. I think the Toyota was designed to get good ratings on that crash
> test(offset). Maybe because the car it replaced, the Previa got the
worst
> ratting ever. Second, As for reliability, that is the only reason to
buy a
> Toyota, it will get to 100K and have no major problems. That is one
reason
> to buy a Volvo, but no one ever said Volvo has bullet proof
reliability like
> Toyotas(or any other car maker for that matter). But there are many
other
> reasons to get a Volvo safety, durability, comfort, and not to mention
> mechanical innovation, that Toyota cannot compare with.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on two points.
I don't accept the idea that Volvos are more durable than Toyotas. That
hasn't been my experience. My 4 year old 850 is falling apart; my 9
year old Camry runs beautifully and looks great. Both cars have been
well maintained. In addition, I know of no objective evidence
indicating better Volvo reliability (for today's models anyway). You do
hear a lot about this, and the Volvo dealer certainly toed the line,
telling me I would have the car for 250,000 miles. But far as objective
evidence goes, I personally have never seen any. If you can't point me
to something, I'd love to take a look at it. It might convince me that
I simply have a lemon.
I have no first hand experience on which car is safer, thanfully having
wrecked neither (knock wood). However, I'm not prepared to dismiss the
government crash tests as quickly as you do, and can't say
unequivocally that I'd rather be in an 850 than a Sienna in an
accident.
On the other hand, I am in complete agreement that that my 850 is more
comfortable and fun to drive than my Camry. It's not even close. But I
still will never buy another Volvo again. It's simply not worth the
money (to me).
--
Lee Meyer
gfgfgfdgs
experience and lab experiments:
Normalized US death rates for cars, compare volvo 850 and camary.
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ddr/ddr_4dr.htm
injury, theft, collision...
http://www.carsafety.org/ictl/ictl_4dr.htm
crash test results...
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/midsize_4dr/volvo850.htm
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/midsize_4dr/older_models/95camry_old.htm
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/midsize_4dr/camry.htm
Even though it's apples to oranges...
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/vans/sienna.htm
Michael T Pardee
FWIW, about 10 years ago I traded in a 1984 Dodge 600ES (same as a
Chrysler LeBaron) for a 1985 765T. At 90K miles, the Dodge was on its
last legs, and I was tired of nursing the crumbling car. The Volvo had
65K. It now has 180K+.
It has not been trouble free; I learned a lot about common trouble spots
on this group and seen the fuel supply problems. The accessories have
about the same life as they do on other cars. But the engine is none the
worse for wear, and the chassis is sound. The transmission and turbo are
original, but I am saving for the inevitable rainy days for those.
The last year has marked a couple of expensive repairs (A/C overhaul,
and a money pit opened by my use of aftermarket fuel injectors). But the
ownership cost per year is less than half the cost of that infernal
Dodge.
Lee Rothman
I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale CHEAP. I know what I see, and for
that matter what the body shops have told me they incur. Just take a look
at a cracked up Honda and tell me you would like to be in one again! I
guarantee you "no way".
Lee Rothman
area. Not so with Honda. They are rolling, good running shitboxes that
when in a significant collision flat out don't protect the passenger
worth a damn. Besides, as one who travels for a living, (although I am
sure that there will be a flame for this one for generalizing)I have
observed more drivers with a death wish in Honda's more than any other
brand of car PERIOD. This is scary. They are always driving as if in a
high performance sports car (they wish) faster and tail gating more than
any others I have seen.
TKART
wonderful cars. Most of them we drove to 250,000 and then sold them and they
still had allot of value. We have a 98' glt and it is a great car, our
neighbors have a 850 turbo and they love it, it has almost 100K miles and it
has had nothing but normal maintenance the whole way. And Consumer Reports
says Volvos are still reliable, all these things make me think that you did
get a lemon. I don't know if I made myself clear, I don't think Volvos are
more reliable than Toyotas, in fact Volvos tend to be quirky sometimes, but
the engines and trannys are great and most other things are too. I can't
imagine a 4 year old car falling apart, either your car has been screwed
with or indeed you did get a lemon.
Lee Meyer wrote in message <7pcrd1$qdq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Lee Meyer
"TKART" <TKart...@home.com> wrote:
> I think you got a lemon. We have owned many Volvos, all of which have
been
> wonderful cars. Most of them we drove to 250,000 and then sold them
and they
> still had allot of value. We have a 98' glt and it is a great car, our
> neighbors have a 850 turbo and they love it, it has almost 100K miles
and it
> has had nothing but normal maintenance the whole way. And Consumer
Reports
> says Volvos are still reliable, all these things make me think that
you did
> get a lemon. I don't know if I made myself clear, I don't think
Volvos are
> more reliable than Toyotas, in fact Volvos tend to be quirky
sometimes, but
> the engines and trannys are great and most other things are too. I
can't
> imagine a 4 year old car falling apart, either your car has been
screwed
> with or indeed you did get a lemon.
That could be. As far as consumer reports goes, however, note that the
850 doesn't get the highest reliability rating, but the second.
Lee Meyer
gfgfgfdgs <jgk...@utiruyig.de> wrote:
> For those interested in seeing some safety data based on real world
> experience and lab experiments:
>
> Normalized US death rates for cars, compare volvo 850 and camary.
>
> http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ddr/ddr_4dr.htm
>
> injury, theft, collision...
>
> http://www.carsafety.org/ictl/ictl_4dr.htm
>
> crash test results...
>
>
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/midsize_4dr/volvo850.htm
>
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/midsize_4dr/older_models
/95camry_old.htm
>
> http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/midsize_4dr/camry.htm
>
> Even though it's apples to oranges...
>
> http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/vans/sienna.htm
Really interesting stuff. After looking at this, I think it's clear (at
least to me) that you can't say Volvo is in a different league from the
Camry or Sienna as far as saftey is concerned. Volvo may edge out
Toyota in some respects, but it's not a blow out.
Thanks for the URLs.
TKART
problems than most other people. I have heard a few others with car turning
out like this on this group, and it is very possible that you either got a
used car that was treated horribly in its first years of life or the new car
you bought, was just a lemon. 95% of the people I have talked to about this
model absolutely love the car and would not trade it in for the world. So I
don't know what's up with yours.
Lee Meyer wrote in message <7pe6mg$ogo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Lee Rothman
and isolated fluid filled substructure as well for the engine. The
suspension is totally different and so is the overall weight and
superstructure like the chassis and body. Drive one and tell me they are
the same and you will have to be on drugs to think so.
Lee Meyer
the V70). My car was new.
In any event, I do realize that many people swear by their Volvos. I
hope you continue to be happy with yours.
In article <VCDu3.4856$Rn....@news.rdc2.occa.home.com>,
HK
attributable to vehicle design is the car at the top of the list (better
than the Volvo 850). It's a Lexus ES300. The ES300 is IDENTICAL to the
Toyota Camry except for some trim pieces.
I would think driver demographics and driving habits have far more affect on
death rates than vehicle design.
> Really interesting stuff. After looking at this, I think it's clear (at
> least to me) that you can't say Volvo is in a different league from the
> Camry or Sienna as far as saftey is concerned. Volvo may edge out
> Toyota in some respects, but it's not a blow out.
>
> Thanks for the URLs.
>
ssc...@my-deja.com
have owned three Volvos, and have had great service from the last two,
a 940T and an 850T5. I have noticed that since I hooked up with my
current shop, a wonderful independent shop called Franklin Automotive
in Bham, Alabama, which has serviced my last two cars, I have had far
fewer problems than when I was using the dealer. I have an intuitive
sense that the quality of maintenance they perform helps ward off other
failures. The pleasantness of my service experience is what swayed me
to the 850 from a Lexus ES300.
In article <7pfn1n$u3r$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Lee Meyer
HK <henr...@nospamatentrevision.com> wrote:
> What totally debunks the validity of these numbers when it comes to
safety
> attributable to vehicle design is the car at the top of the list
(better
> than the Volvo 850). It's a Lexus ES300. The ES300 is IDENTICAL to
the
> Toyota Camry except for some trim pieces.
>
> I would think driver demographics and driving habits have far more
affect on
> death rates than vehicle design.
>
I agree. There are obviously many factors that affect death rates.
However, vehicle design is without question one of them. The issue is
how to isolate the effect of this particular variable so you can make a
rational decision. I can't perform this analysis myself, so I have to
rely on whatever studies are out there.
Are these studies imperfect? Yes. Do they support definitive
conclusions? No. Should they be taken with a healthy does of
skepticism? Sure.
But, do they provide a better basis on which to make a decision than
the experiences of my two neighbors, the one who walked away from his
wrecked Volvo and the one who was killed in his Toyota? I absolutely
think so.
Lee Meyer
tells me, including folks who claim to know, based on simply their own
personal experiences, whether one particular car is safer than another.
I do, however, take stories like that into account, just as I take
statistics produced by the government into account.
Lee Meyer
dci...@earthlink.net (Lee Rothman) wrote:
> Yeah, well Lee, if you believe everything the government tells you,
then
> I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale CHEAP. I know what I see, and
for
> that matter what the body shops have told me they incur. Just take a
look
> at a cracked up Honda and tell me you would like to be in one again!
I
> guarantee you "no way".
>
>
numbers, you've erroneously called the Insurance Institute for Highway
Saftey a government agency. In fact, it's a not-for-profit organization
run by the insurance industry. I know, can't trust them either, right?
R51reed
tells me, including folks who claim to know, based on simply their own personal
experiences, whether one particular car is safer than another.>>
One thing I like to do for friends about to buy a car and are interested in a
car I particularly don't like is to take them to a wrecking yard. While
stories & statistics are fine, nothing brings the point home like looking at
the real life aftermath of a wrecking yard.
reply to my real e~mail account for faster response.
r51...@onyxcasino.com
Lee Meyer
r51...@aol.comk-state (R51reed) wrote:
> << I don't believe everything ANYONE
> tells me, including folks who claim to know, based on simply their
own personal
> experiences, whether one particular car is safer than another.>>
>
> One thing I like to do for friends about to buy a car and are
interested in a
> car I particularly don't like is to take them to a wrecking yard.
While
> stories & statistics are fine, nothing brings the point home like
looking at
> the real life aftermath of a wrecking yard.
I would make the same point to you that I've made several times in this
thread.
I put seeing wrecks in the same category as hearing stories about
individual experiences people have had with their cars. It's
interesting and certainly worth considering, but (1) it ain't
definitive by any stretch of the imagination and (2) I'd be a fool to
rely on this kind of information exclusively.
In short, I simply don't accept the idea that crash tests results are
irrelevant.
TKART
other well built car in an accident of any sort of seriousness it will be
totaled, Volvos don't look pretty after accidents. There was an accident
down the street from us were a Honda Accord doing 50mph, side Swiped an 850,
one person in the Honda was killed instantly the other died later at the
hospital, the 850 spun out of control and hit, offset against a street light
pole. The car looked like not a single human being could come out of it,
guess what the guy had, minor scratches and bruises. I'll I am going to say
is there are countless stories like this out there were Volvos have saved
lives. Toyota is just getting in to the business of building safer cars,
I'll trust the industry leader who has been building sfae cars since the
50's. Do you know why the Volvo did not get the highest rating because
structurally it did not do as well, duh Volvos never do good structurally
there called crumple zones. The other reason they did bad was because there
bumper performance in a separate test was a marginal rating. The bumper test
is conducted at five miles an hour against a post.
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/midsize_4dr/volvo850.htm
The sienna got a poor rating for head restraint design, The Volvo got best
head restraint in the industry. And the Sienna got a marginal rating as well
in bumper design. I would rather have a restrained neck then a pretty
looking car after an accident, what about you?
Tory
R51reed wrote in message <19990820100915...@ng-xa1.aol.com>...
><< I don't believe everything ANYONE
>tells me, including folks who claim to know, based on simply their own
personal
>experiences, whether one particular car is safer than another.>>
>
>One thing I like to do for friends about to buy a car and are interested in
a
>car I particularly don't like is to take them to a wrecking yard. While
>stories & statistics are fine, nothing brings the point home like looking
at
>the real life aftermath of a wrecking yard.
>
>
>
Lee Meyer
I don't accept the idea that Volvo is the only safe car out there, and
that I don't think it makes it so simply to recount numerous stories of
people surviving crashes in them.
In my family, we've had our share of serious wrecks. None were in
Volvos, yet we haven't lost anyone yet nor have we had any serious
injuries (knock wood). What does that prove? Nothing.
I also think that on the whole, the crash data supports this conclusion
(that Volvos are relatively safe but so are some other cars).
Enough said. I'm through with this thread. Volvo safety (and
reliability) are obviously too sacrosanct to discuss rationally.
--
Lee Rothman
I called them shitboxes. Hmmmm, right on both accounts.
have gun will travel
I'm with you. Volvo has the great reputation of crash
durability. However, how many of us have ever been in a
life threatening crash? Most of us would prefer to drive an
extremely reliable car that only requires routine
maintenance to insure longevity. I bought my Volvo so I
could use it in my business that requires 40,000 to 50,000
miles per year. Most likely, I will never be hit, but I
will spend too much time in the shop.
Next time, a Acura, Lexus, or Toyota for me.
Steve
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Jon Rush
engineering to prevent injuries in crashes. I will trust a company who
rapidly deploys investigators to the scene of injury accidents to
determine how the car could have performed better. (The old joke in
Sweden was the Volvo team would get there before the ambulance.) I will
trust a company that won't compromise on design principles to achieve
high ratings in crash tests. I will trust a company who's designs have
topped injury and fatality ratings for many years, including one stretch
of several years with no fatalities for a certain model. (IIRC 240
sedan, early to mid 80s)
Poke around at the USA manufacturers and you will see that passenger
safety in some types of accidents is severely compromised to achieve
high numbers in the government/insurance crash tests. Its all about the
marketing, baby.
I don't know much about the Japanese manufacturers, but I suspect crash
safety is a new religion for them. I'll wait and see.
Jon
Stephen M. Henning
>I will trust a company that has a long reputation in smart and clever
>engineering to prevent injuries in crashes. I will trust a company who
>rapidly deploys investigators to the scene of injury accidents to
>determine how the car could have performed better.
Actual record:
National Insurance Institute for Highway Safety rates the following (in
alphabetic order) as the safest:
'97-'98 BMW 5 series [luxury car]
'95-'98 Chevrolet Lumina [mid-size car]
'96-'98 Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable [mid-size car]
'95-'98 Ford Windstar [passenger van]
'95-'98 Lexus LS 400 [luxury car ]
'97-'98 Toyota Camry [mid-size car]
'98 Toyota Sienna [passenger van]
'98 Volkswagen Passat [mid-size]
'98 Volkswagen New Beatle [small car]
'95-'98 Volvo 850 [mid-size]
July 23, 1999 (Reuters) - U.S. highway safety regulators said on Friday
that the 1999 Volvo S80 four-door car is the first passenger car to
achieve the highest possible rating for side impact crash tests.
The S80, made by Ford's Volvo car unit, received a five star rating for
side crash tests for both the front seat and the back seat, the U.S.
Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration (NHTSA) said.
"This result shows how innovative design can meet the challenge of
providing a high level of side impact protection in passenger cars", NHTSA
Administrator Ricardo Martinez said in a statement.
The safety systems of the 1999 Volvo S80 will remain unchanged in model
year 2000, the the highway safety group said.
The agency said the test used simulates a typical intersection collision
between two cars and the impact is measured on two crash test dummies.
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to shen...@fast.net
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA