Disabling Power Steering - 2009 Toyota Corolla
Crazy Lary
the fuse is located?
It's a 2009 Toyota Corolla.
thank you,
Crazy Larry
Tegger
news:FbidnRR9V_SFPEPU...@posted.grandecom:
> I want to toss the power steering. At least to test it. Anyone know
> where the fuse is located?
> It's a 2009 Toyota Corolla.
>
That'll be pretty tough. You've got steer-by-wire.
--
Tegger
Jeff Strickland
"Tegger" <inv...@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9BE8DDFD...@208.90.168.18...
What he's really got is an electric boost instead of a vacuum boost that
most of us enjoy.
Steer By Wire means there is no direct connection between the steering wheel
and the front tires. This is not how the Corolla works.
Check it out ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Power_Steering
Ray O
"Crazy Lary" <em...@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:FbidnRR9V_SFPEPU...@posted.grandecom...
I can guess where the "Crazy" part of your name came from ;-)
I'd guess that the power is passed through a relay, protected by an
automatically resetting circuit breaker. Look for a relay or circuit
breaker in the fuse box under the hood.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
Crazy Lary
"Ray O" <roki...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
news:grmb06$8l2$3...@news.motzarella.org...
Hachiroku ハチロク
>
> "Crazy Lary" <em...@noemail.com> wrote in message
> news:FbidnRR9V_SFPEPU...@posted.grandecom...
>>I want to toss the power steering. At least to test it. Anyone know where
>>the fuse is located?
>> It's a 2009 Toyota Corolla.
>>
>> thank you,
>>
>> Crazy Larry
>
> I can guess where the "Crazy" part of your name came from ;-)
LOL! I was thinking the same thing!!!
Phew, are you asking for it!! We took a 1987 Corolla out for a test; my
Favorite Toyota dealer had a 'stripper' sitting on the lot for $8,250.
HOLY CRAP! The car weighed about 2800 lbs, but the steering felt like it
was 28,000 lbs!!!
We passed on the stripper and bought a loaded one...WITH Power Steering!
Ray O
"Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.04.10....@e86.GTS...
I thought that PS was standard in Corollas by 1987.
Driving a vehicle with the PS disabled takes a lot more effort than driving
a vehicle that does not have PS installed because the gear ratios are
different. For example, a car with PS might be 3.3 turns of the steering
wheel lock to lock, while the same car with armstrong steering might be 4.5
turns lock to lock to reduce the steering effort.
Crazy Lary
"Ray O" <roki...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
The new power steering really bites on the 2009 Toyota Corolla. I am now
happy with the turned of power steering.
John B. Smith
wrote:
>
>The new power steering really bites on the 2009 Toyota Corolla. I am now
>happy with the turned of power steering.
I have a brand new 2009 Corolla LE. The electric power steering isn't
bothering me at all, but the electric throttle (gas pedal is a
potentiometer) IS. I'm curious to know what you find objectionable
about your power steering?
My vin number is JTDBL40E49J053424, by the way.
Reasoned Insanity
If nothing else, it will probably help keep your upper body in shape.
Jeff Strickland
"Reasoned Insanity" <a_new_tast...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:epODl.42240$TD1....@newsfe18.iad...
It's a Corolla, how heavy can it be?
I once owned a '63 Ford F100 with a V8 and manual steering. That was a work
out.
Hachiroku ハチロク
You turned off the power steering, and you *LIKE* it?!?!?!
http://www.whoballyhoo.com/pressmaterials/samplepages/strongman.jpg
Dave P
made with the electric power steering . they do feel different than the
cars with the power steering pump. . you dont have that center feeling
when you have the car going straight .with the power steering pump after
you make a turn the wheel goes back to center or at least feels like it
does . with the electris steering it pretty much stays right where it is
they do feel different but just takes a little getting use to .
guess we better get use to it . in 3 or 4 years all of them will be
electric .
Hachiroku ハチロク
>>> The new power steering really bites on the 2009 Toyota Corolla. I am now
>>> happy with the turned of power steering.
>>
>>
>> If nothing else, it will probably help keep your upper body in shape.
>>
>
> It's a Corolla, how heavy can it be?
>
> I once owned a '63 Ford F100 with a V8 and manual steering. That was a work
> out.
You'd be surprised. See my response to Ray about an '87 Corolla without
PS. It was like trying to steer a freight train.
Retired VIP
wrote:
I've never driven a car with electric power steering. Do you mean to
say that the front wheels won't center themselves after a turn? That
means that the trick of letting the front wheels turn themselves into
a skid will no longer work! Bummer!!
Jack j
Retired VIP
I think you meant to say Hydraulic Boost, not vacuum boost. That's
one reason why cars with power steering are so hard to turn without
the boost assist. You not only have to deal with a lower steering
ratio but you have to move hydraulic fluid though the system.
Jack j
Tegger
news:grm96n$tiu$1...@news.motzarella.org:
<emily litella>
Oh, that's different. Never mind.
</emily litella>
--
Tegger
Jeff Strickland
"Retired VIP" <jackj.ext...@windstream.net> wrote in message
news:5k31u4hi7tchp681o...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 18:59:57 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
> <cr...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Tegger" <inv...@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>>news:Xns9BE8DDFD...@208.90.168.18...
>>> "Crazy Lary" <em...@noemail.com> wrote in
>>> news:FbidnRR9V_SFPEPU...@posted.grandecom:
>>>
>>>> I want to toss the power steering. At least to test it. Anyone know
>>>> where the fuse is located?
>>>> It's a 2009 Toyota Corolla.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That'll be pretty tough. You've got steer-by-wire.
>>>
>>
>>What he's really got is an electric boost instead of a vacuum boost that
>>most of us enjoy.
>>
>>Steer By Wire means there is no direct connection between the steering
>>wheel
>>and the front tires. This is not how the Corolla works.
>>
>>Check it out ...
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Power_Steering
>>
> I think you meant to say Hydraulic Boost, not vacuum boost.
Sorry, yes, that's what I meant.
nm...@wt.net
>
> I have a brand new 2009 Corolla LE. The electric power steering isn't
> bothering me at all, but the electric throttle (gas pedal is a
> potentiometer) IS. I'm curious to know what you find objectionable
> about your power steering?
> My vin number is JTDBL40E49J053424, by the way.
Hummm. They have had the throttle by wire for a good while..
My 05 has it.. It's never bothered me, but at first it seemed a
little touchy right when you begin pressing it. Didn't take too
long to get used to it. You can't use a heavy foot on those
when starting off.
John B. Smith
My 2000 Corolla was a 'little touchy' too. I learned to deal with it.
The problem with the 2009 version is that it has about half an inch of
spring-loaded 'play' in the throttle before the engine starts to rev.
The dealer says it cannot be adjusted. I don't see why a mechanical
'stop' couldn't have been designed in to adjust the potentiometer
(that's incorporated into the gas pedal) to eliminate this 'play' - so
that the engine revs begin as soon as I press the pedal.. Seems like
crappy engineering to me.
Dave P
large parking lot . got up to like 30 mph ., cut the engine off and
turned the wheel back and fourth .made 90 degree turns on a slight down
grade from a stop tried to turn the wheel with the engine off . was not
to bad as long as the car was moving 20mph or more but from a stop on a
downgrade it was very very hard to turn.
it was harder to steer than cars i drove back in the 60s without
power steering .
with the power steering disconnected backing out of a parking
space at the mall would be crazy . starting to think this person might
be a troll.if they tried it at all. the electric steering just takes a
little getting use to just like anything else .
i mean i guess if you didn't like the feel or power brakes you
could disconnect then and drive with out them but it would be crazy .
i think this is to.
Crazy Lary
I don't mind turning on at low speeds. I just wanted to make a relay to
turn EPS on while in the city. Just don't a good spot to disconnect it.
Anyone have any pictures..
Crazy Larry..
"Dave P" <kentuck...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:4228-49E...@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net...
nm...@wt.net
Probably a design response to complaints about it being "touchy". :/
It's kind of like adding more "null zone" to a joystick... :/
I think I also prefer the "instant on" feel mine has, which I guess is
about like the 2000. Once you get used to it, it's no problem.
They need to reprogram the electric power steering on those new
ones.
Sounds like they are not variable enough, or are set too hot.
Almost all the complaints I see, and I've seen quite a few
looking around the web, say the PS is too hot at highway speeds.
With a normal variable ratio PS, it should almost feel like a
manual rack and pinion at highway speeds in a straight line.
Much less assist than at slow parking speeds and cranking
the wheel.
Ray O
"Crazy Lary" <em...@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:PradnfUlDZOnEX_U...@posted.grandecom...
> Dave,
>
> I don't mind turning on at low speeds. I just wanted to make a relay to
> turn EPS on while in the city. Just don't a good spot to disconnect it.
> Anyone have any pictures..
>
> Crazy Larry..
>
It is generally not a good idea to modify factory systems because of the
possible safety implications and having the factory warranty coverage voided
for any affected systems. For $10/day, www.techinfo.toyota.com offers
access to factory repair manuals, technical service bulletins, and wiring
diagrams, and locations of connectors in case someone wanted to back a pin
out of a connector to check whether power was reaching a component served by
the pin and make up a jumper wire for a test relay.
larry moe 'n curly
Crazy Lary
Is she married.. I would love to Wed her..
"larry moe 'n curly" <larrymo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:e1c93690-e3a7-4a18...@y33g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Austin Toyota Club
They replaced my car and then some - I have no more pulling or steering
issues. (A+ Toyota)
"Crazy Lary" <em...@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:FbidnRR9V_SFPEPU...@posted.grandecom...
>I want to toss the power steering. At least to test it. Anyone know where
>the fuse is located?
> It's a 2009 Toyota Corolla.
>
> thank you,
>
> Crazy Larry
Austin Toyota Club
Hachiroku ハチロク
> I would like to try this, too.
Ever try steering the Queen Elizabeth II by hand?
Ray O
"Austin Toyota Club" <Austin Texas> wrote in message
news:Z62dnRpLHd0u6-7W...@posted.grandecom...
If there is a fuse or circuit breaker, it will be in one of the fuse boxes,
more likely the one under the hood. There is probably a simple way to
temporarily disable the electronic power steering, but I think I'll let
owners figure it out themselves rather than give instructions on how to
disable what lawyers, safety advocates, politicians, people with limited
automotive knowledge, and people with limited driving skills consider a
safety feature.
Hachiroku
Ray...
The guy *DOES* call himself "Crazy Larry"...
C. E. White
"Ray O" <roki...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
I am curious about the type of electric power sterring Toyota is
using...
I had a 2003 Sturn Vue that used an electric motor to supply steering
assistance. I thought they all worked like this. However, on Car Talk
the other day they were mentioned a system that used an electriclly
run hydraulic pump to supply high pressure oil to provide steering
asist. This sounded like a system that would use a convention
hydralically assisted rack and the only difference was how the
hydraulic pressure was supplied. Seemed like a bad idea, but they were
talkinig about it...
Ed
Jeff Strickland
"Austin Toyota Club" <Austin Texas> wrote in message
news:Z62dnRpLHd0u6-7W...@posted.grandecom...
My experience, limited as it is, is that you don't want to do this. I find
that driving a power steering-equiped car without the benefit of the power
makes the steering pretty much unbearable at speeds where the power is
actually needed.
You don't need power steering to make a lane change, or even to navigate a
mountain road, because the steering input is very minor and generally pretty
slow. I had an engine problem once AND was on a very tight budget so calling
the tow truck to the top of the hill was out of the question. I put the car
into N (manual shift) and coasted 7 miles down the grade to the parking lot
at the bottom. The steering was heavy, but manageable on the road, but I
would not want to have wanted the power assist to be gone on purpose or for
any extended length of time. I could drive the car okay, but my wife would
have had her hands full. Just a thought ...
Where power steering is needed is in city traffic and parking lots. If you
can't make wide changes in direction quickly, then you're not gonna be very
happy for very long.
Ray O
"Hachiroku" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
news:hl17ge$jdt$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
LOL! True!
Ray O
"C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hl19j0$a23$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
that it does not use a pump. My understanding is that the electronic PS
uses some kind of motor or servo, probably similar to what your Vue had.
The EPS is used on Toyota's hybrid vehicles because with an engine-driven
pump, assist would be lost when the motor shuts down. The disadvantage to
using an electrically driven pump is that it would need to run whenever the
vehicle is being driven, which would quickly drain the traction battery, or
it would need some kind of accumulator tank, which would add complexity.
A motor or servo-driven assist would be lighter than a hydraulic system and
theoretically easier.
Jeff Strickland
"C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hl19j0$a23$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
The engine-driven hydraulics are a constant drain on the engine, and
therefore use more fuel. The electrically driven hydraulics do not drain
power from the engine, therefore use less fuel.
The electric assist, as I understand it, is a motor -- sort of like a
starter motor -- that drives the hydraulic assist. The idea is that when
steering input is sensed, the motor kicks into action to provide the
hydraulics needed, then shuts off. The electricity to drive the motor puts a
drain on the engine output, but the drain is transitory instead of constant,
so the end effect is that less power from the engine is used to provide
electric power for the steering than the conventional method of powering the
steering.
If the car is moving at speed and a simple lane change is called out by the
driver, then the power assist would not be activated, therefore no effort
from the engine would be expended as it is in the old system of pumping the
fluid by way of belts on the crankshaft. An added benefit could be that the
space needed for the belt-driven pump could be used in other ways and the
electricly driven pump could be put into an otherwise unused space.
I don't recall, exactly, but I think the complaints on the electric steering
is that there is a lag period between the steering input and the application
of hydraulic pressure to assist the steering. If this is true, then the only
thing that can be accomplished by removing the fuse for the electric motor
is to dramatically increase the lag time. If lag time is the problem that
people have, then what might happen is, the driver muscles the car into a
right-hand turn and suddenly the power assist kicks in and changes the level
of effort needed, and this makes the car turn more sharply than one might
otherwise wish it to turn. Have you ever put effort into moving a stuck
object, and suddenly the object was freed and moved more than you wanted it
to? This is a complaint of electric assisted steering.
C. E. White
"Ray O" <roki...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
>> I am curious about the type of electric power sterring Toyota is
>> using...
>>
>> I had a 2003 Sturn Vue that used an electric motor to supply
>> steering assistance. I thought they all worked like this. However,
>> on Car Talk the other day they were mentioned a system that used an
>> electriclly run hydraulic pump to supply high pressure oil to
>> provide steering asist. This sounded like a system that would use a
>> convention hydralically assisted rack and the only difference was
>> how the hydraulic pressure was supplied. Seemed like a bad idea,
>> but they were talkinig about it...
>>
>> Ed
>>
> I'm not sure how the electric power steering works, but I am pretty
> sure that it does not use a pump. My understanding is that the
> electronic PS uses some kind of motor or servo, probably similar to
> what your Vue had.
>
> The EPS is used on Toyota's hybrid vehicles because with an
> engine-driven pump, assist would be lost when the motor shuts down.
> The disadvantage to using an electrically driven pump is that it
> would need to run whenever the vehicle is being driven, which would
> quickly drain the traction battery, or it would need some kind of
> accumulator tank, which would add complexity.
>
> A motor or servo-driven assist would be lighter than a hydraulic
> system and theoretically easier.
I went back and listend to the car talk segment where the Car Talk
guys started talking about the electric power sterring
(http://www.cartalk.com/piplayer/cartalkplayer.html?play=03smil.xml) .
It turns out the car was a Chevrolet Equinox. This thing is jsut a
later Vue. I checked and the 4 cylinder model has electric power
steering just like the Vue I owned (i.e. - a servo motor and no
electrically driven hydraulic pump - ). The 6 cylinder model get a
conventional hydraulic system.....
Ed
Ray O
"Jeff Strickland" <crwl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hl1fv0$56m$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I think that the electronic PS system does not use hydraulic assist and uses
a motor or servo to move the rack.
The complaints I've heard on Corollas is that the PS system is overly
sensitive, making it difficult for some drivers to maintain straight line at
highway speeds.
Jeff Strickland
"Ray O" <roki...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
Based on what Ray said, I did a little checking, and found that while I made
some safe assumptions on a motor-driven hydraulic system, the actual system
is more like what Ray said. Check it for yourself,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_steering.
In an internal combustion engine -- as in most cars and trucks -- having an
electric motor drive the hydraulic pump is feasible and would easily do the
job, as Ray points out it would not be a good system for a hybrid car or
truck.
Having said that, the complaints are pretty much in line with those I
described in my earlier post -- the steering response to driver input isn't
very good. As the link points out, steering response in early
implementations of hydraulically assisted steering was not very good either.
The complaints then and now seem to be pretty much the same, give or take a
fine-point here or there.
Jeff Strickland
"Ray O" <roki...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
>>
>
> I think that the electronic PS system does not use hydraulic assist and
> uses a motor or servo to move the rack.
>
> The complaints I've heard on Corollas is that the PS system is overly
> sensitive, making it difficult for some drivers to maintain straight line
> at highway speeds.
> --
>
You're right, there isn't a motor that drives a pump. While such a system
would work fine, that's not what they seem to be using, for lots of reasons
that don't really matter in the realm of this discussion.
I couldn't remember if the complaints were that the steering was slow to
respond and then responded without regard to what had already been
accomplished -- causing a swerve and corrective steering -- or that the
steering was twitchy at highway speeds. Either one would be a problem for
many drivers, mostly by making them uncomfortable if not dangerous.
C. E. White
"Jeff Strickland" <crwl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hl1fv0$56m$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> using...
>>
>> I had a 2003 Sturn Vue that used an electric motor to supply
>> steering assistance. I thought they all worked like this. However,
>> on Car Talk the other day they were mentioned a system that used an
>> electriclly run hydraulic pump to supply high pressure oil to
>> provide steering asist. This sounded like a system that would use a
>> convention hydralically assisted rack and the only difference was
>> how the hydraulic pressure was supplied. Seemed like a bad idea,
>> but they were talkinig about it...
>>
>
>
> The engine-driven hydraulics are a constant drain on the engine, and
> therefore use more fuel. The electrically driven hydraulics do not
> drain power from the engine, therefore use less fuel.
I checked into this further. It seems that you could have a system
with an electric motor driving a hydraulic pump, BUT, this is not the
sort of system used on the car in the Car Talk segment that prompted
my question. It uses a servo motor directly acting in the steering
shaft. In my Vue the motor and controls were all inside the car. They
were attached to the steering column just under the dash. The Vue's
steering had a numb feel, but no worse than many other power assist
systems in other cars I've driven. But then I've never driven anything
as numb as late 60's Chrysler products, so maybe I am biased. I didn't
think the Vue electric power steering was bad, it just wasn't
"sporty."
Interestingly we have another vehicle with electic power steeering - A
Kabota Lawn Tractor.....it works fine.
Ed