Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year
javawizard
estimated mileage (or kilometerage) you drive per year, the mileage
your current car is getting, the mileage a proposed new car will get,
and it will show you how much money you can save. If you already have
a fuel-efficient car, you can have fun running as-ifs and after-the-
fact comparisons.
Take care,
- Jeff -
notaguru
non-hybrid, so I factored in the loss of income from
that money differential (we pay cash and keep cars until
they're not economical to fix). Also, there are
differences in maintenance. For example, my Prius may
never need a brake job...
And there's one more savings: time. In my driving
environment, I estimate that my HOV-lane access is worth
2.2 hours per month - and time is money. Those stickers
aren't available any longer, but mine are good till 2011
and I can guarantee that I'll keep this car at least
that long.
A great car!
EdV
> My '04 Prius cost about $5,000 more than a comparable
> non-hybrid, so I factored in the loss of income from
> that money differential (we pay cash and keep cars until
> they're not economical to fix). Also, there are
> differences in maintenance. For example, my Prius may
> never need a brake job...
>
> And there's one more savings: time. In my driving
> environment, I estimate that my HOV-lane access is worth
> 2.2 hours per month - and time is money. Those stickers
> aren't available any longer, but mine are good till 2011
> and I can guarantee that I'll keep this car at least
> that long.
>
> A great car!
>
> javawizard wrote:
> > estimated mileage (or kilometerage) you drive per year, the mileage
> > your current car is getting, the mileage a proposed new car will get,
> > and it will show you how much money you can save. If you already have
> > a fuel-efficient car, you can have fun running as-ifs and after-the-
> > fact comparisons.
> > Take care,
> > - Jeff -
You cant put a price tag on saving the environment.
EdV
wrote:
> In article <1192814706.107072.310...@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,> Yes, you can.
>
> Imagine that to preserve an appropriate and viable balance of people and
> food supply, that we have to eliminate the population of, say, Africa.
>
> We'd be saving the environment, right?
Well, not exactly what I had in mind, I was thinking more of hybrids
being able to reduce Carbon emissions and that you cant put a price on
that. That sort of stuff and no mass murder involved.
notaguru
also include consideration of trade-in or sales value
when the time comes. I owned my early '04 for quite a
while before it depreciated even a dollar, and today,
after four years and a day, it can be sold for 80% of
what I paid for it in 10/03 (kbb.com).
In fact, since it has the desirable HOV stickers and is
in perfect condition, I might get more than that...
Astonishing!
EdV
wrote:
> In article <1192836172.178329.290...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> EdV <systme...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > You cant put a price tag on saving the environment.
>
> > > Yes, you can.
>
> > > Imagine that to preserve an appropriate and viable balance of people and
> > > food supply, that we have to eliminate the population of, say, Africa.
>
> > > We'd be saving the environment, right?
>
> > Well, not exactly what I had in mind, I was thinking more of hybrids
> > being able to reduce Carbon emissions and that you cant put a price on
> > that. That sort of stuff and no mass murder involved.
>
>
> Well, then, you CAN put a price tag on saving the environment, then.
You are right, there's a way to compute Carbon emission per kilometer
or something, Thanks for pointing that out. I'm not a hybrid owner. To
be honest I'm guilty too, do I want a keep my money and buy a less
expensive non hybrid car or do I my part to reduce carbon emission and
buy a hybrid. I kept my money.
Grumpy AuContraire
EdV wrote:
<rant on>
Why izzit that every new catchword becomes yet another fad.
Got a carbon problem?
Plant more trees!
Why izzit that modern day PC folk insist on re-inventing wheel?
<rant over>
JT
dgk
Planting more trees is a good idea and we're doing it in my
neighborhood. But there is a limit to how many trees we can fit
It looks like human activity is causing some global problems. That
isn't really very surprising to me. We've dumped lots of stuff that
never existed in nature back into nature. We've cut down most of the
rain forests. We've pumped all kinds of stuff into the atmosphere.
We've caused the extinction of countless species (yes, we could
probably count them but I'm using the term to mean "a great many").
And when it's pointed out that perhaps we'd better do something to
protect the only planet we have and pass it on to future generations,
we get all kinds of gruff. Well, fine, maybe we're wrong and there is
no problem. Let's just continue what we're doing until it's too late.
Maybe science will come up with a fix. Or maybe we'll all get wiped
out or face a much more hostile environment.
Really, why should it bother me anyway? I'll be dead. I guess I'll buy
that hummer after all.
Grumpy AuContraire
dgk wrote:
When it can be explained to me why adjacent planets are also warming up,
then I may admit that human contributions, (which by the way amount to
less than .5% of the increase in recent years), might be a factor.
The loss of carbon conversion can largely be attributed to the
destruction of the tropical and other rainforests and in that way, yes,
we are a factor and one that could easily be reversed.
But that does not 'plain the planetary warm up...
JT
Josh S
notaguru <notaguru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For example, my Prius may
> never need a brake job...
Dream on!
Josh S
EdV <syst...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I was thinking more of hybrids
> being able to reduce Carbon emissions and that you cant put a price on
> that. That sort of stuff and no mass murder involved.
Difficult to put a price on something which the affect of isn't
accurately quantified.
The Carbon Offset con makes it even more difficult.
Josh S
notaguru <notaguru...@gmail.com> wrote:
You'll not know it's REAL value until you sell it.
Josh S
EdV <syst...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> To
> be honest I'm guilty too, do I want a keep my money and buy a less
> expensive non hybrid car or do I my part to reduce carbon emission and
> buy a hybrid. I kept my money.
The most effective way to reduce our cars impact is to drive less.
Siskuwihane
> In article <1192899378.924973.41...@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> EdV <systme...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > To
> > be honest I'm guilty too, do I want a keep my money and buy a less
> > expensive non hybrid car or do I my part to reduce carbon emission and
> > buy a hybrid. I kept my money.
>
> The most effective way to reduce our cars impact is to drive less.
Exactly.
notaguru
Initially I didn't realize how little wear there would
be on this hybrid, so at 40k bought pads and did the
check. I'm an engineer, so felt compelled to go for the
data. Toyota's replacement pads and the 40k pads
measured the same, though it's possible the spec changed
in the four years I've driven the car.
I returned the new pads with no restocking fee - the
dealer's partsdroid said they rarely sell pads for the
'04, and nearly all come back after the do-it-yourselfer
does the comparison.
It's not a dream, evidently.
Gordon McGrew
<Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
We don't have much historic data on average temperatures on Mars and
Venus. They are very different from Earth and from each other. We
really don't know what kind of cycles are in play there.
I couldn't find any reference on Venus warming recently. I only found
one reference on Mars warming referencing a paper in Nature which also
noted that the surface had gotten darker and speculating that some
kind of wind cycle churning up dust could be at play.
>then I may admit that human contributions, (which by the way amount to
>less than .5% of the increase in recent years), might be a factor.
How do you know that?
BTW, Venus is the poster boy for greenhouse climate change. Fifty
years ago it was assumed that the surface of Venus was like a swamp on
the equator of Earth. We now know it is more like a furnace. This is
the result of run-away global warming due to the high CO2 content of
its atmosphere. By some models, Earth starts to run away if the
average global temperature hits 80F.
Gordon McGrew
Actually, I can believe this, especially if the driver is driving for
economy and/or doing a lot of highway driving. I can drive my GS-R in
heavy Chicago traffic hardly using the brakes by just anticipating
traffic and using engine compression to slow the car. The regen
braking in a hybrid should work even better than compression braking.
richard schumacher
Josh S <Jo...@clean.spam> wrote:
Yes. Live near work and take mass transit when possible.
Doctor Geller
<Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
...and smoking builds healthy lungs and dumping poisons in the river
makes our kids build strong bones...those crazy liberals are health
fiends....
rick++
I figured the payback was about 11 years, not counting
increased maintenance costs of a more complex vehicle.
To the green-snobs out there, I am already driving one
the top 5% top mileage vehicles in the USA.
who
javawizard <javaw...@aol.com> wrote:
It's actually a very simple calculation by just applying the mileage
ratio to your current gas costs. I've done it in Canadian units, but the
same idea could easily be modified for the imperial gallon or the tiny
USA gallon.
For example I now spend $1,200 per year on gas, driving 1,000 kms per
month.
My car is 8L/100 highway and 12.5L/100 city.
I drive 80% city, so my effective consumption is 11.6.
If a new smaller more efficient car is 7/10.5L/100 it's effective
consumption for me is 9.8L/100.
Therefore my gas cost with the new car is 1,200*9.6/11.6=$993
for a saving of $207 per year. A 17% saving, not a big deal for my low
mileage.
Tuning this figure up you could increase the saving to reflect the
expected increase in gas cost.
Jeff
> I'd save 100 gallons a year going from a civic to a hybrid.
> I figured the payback was about 11 years, not counting
> increased maintenance costs of a more complex vehicle.
What increased maintenance costs?
richard schumacher
Jeff <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I'd save 100 gallons a year going from a civic to a hybrid.
> > I figured the payback was about 11 years, not counting
> > increased maintenance costs of a more complex vehicle.
>
> What increased maintenance costs?
That's one of the favorite myths of the hybrid bashers. After four
years the Prius gets excellent reliability ratings. It's kinda nice
going 100,000 between brake pads and knowing that the transmission will
never need a rebuild.
who
rick++ <ric...@hotmail.com> wrote:
For 11 years you need to include main battery replacement, before that.
Did you, it costs big bucks?
Grumpy AuContraire
Doctor Geller wrote:
Thank you for a most intelligent post.
Moron!
JT
Grumpy AuContraire
Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute wrote:
> In message news:f00th397dr8mfdkh4...@4ax.com, Gordon McGrew
> sprach forth the following:
>
>
>>We don't have much historic data on average temperatures on Mars and
>>Venus. They are very different from Earth
>
>
> You mean the sun isn't their primary source of heat?
>
>
>>We
>>really don't know what kind of cycles are in play there.
>
>
> Actually we do:
>
> http://www.oar.noaa.gov/spotlite/archive/spot_sunclimate.html
Good read.
Thanks,
JT
Geoff Miller
One advantage of driving a diesel is that you get great gas mileage
*and* piss off liberals.
Geoff
--
"When his life was ruined, his family killed, his farm destroyed,
Job knelt down on the ground and yelled up to the heavens, 'Why,
God? Why me?' and the thundering voice of God answered, 'There's
just something about you that pisses me off.'" -- Stephen King
Doctor Geller
<Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
You signed your post twice: once as Moron and then as JT.
A moron is someone like you who just vomited that human contributions
might be a factor. The fact that I mocked your pathetic denial based
diseased mental processes so well really stung you into self-defense
mode.
Oh.
You're Welcome.
The Doctor
Doctor Geller
<nos...@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
>In message news:1192899378....@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com, EdV
>sprach forth the following:
>
>> I'm not a hybrid owner. To
>> be honest I'm guilty too, do I want a keep my money and buy a less
>> expensive non hybrid car or do I my part to reduce carbon emission and
>> buy a hybrid. I kept my money.
>
>Typical do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do lieberal.
Is that similar to a RIPiglican urging others to go die in a war while
they stay at home? Is it like that? Say, do you know Jeff Gannon?
He was that White House paid "reporter" who asked Bush soft ball
questions by day, and fucked him in the ass at night by staying at the
White House. At least Clinton liked girls. This explains why Bush is
so "unusual"... he is a hostile homosexual....like all Republicans
getting busted in gay sex stings today. Family values and Jesus.
Sure don't hear Republicans singing that song. Bush can't even scare
anyone anymore even with talk of World War 3. Stupid liar RIPigs.
Thanks for playing, Republican whore boi
Geoff Miller
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> writes:
Hey, Mike! How's it hangin'?
Oops...
> If you hate America, vote Republican.
I vote Republican because like Republicans and unlike many
if not most Democrats, I love America.
I used to be a Democrat. Then I grew up. "Twenty/no heart,
forty/no brain," and all that.
> Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Nice doublethink. You don't "support the troops" unless you
support what the troops are doing.
Tegger
83D00E.151...@news.east.cox.net:
> In article <nos-6B65A5.1...@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
> "dbu." <n...@nos.net> wrote:
>
>> If we got out now it would be another Cambodia.
>
> When did we get out of Cambodia? Oh, we were never in Cambodia, so
> there was nothing to get out of.
Um...your Google skills leave a bit to be desired.
US military involvement in Cambodia in 1970 is a matter of
(very accessible) historical record.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_Campaign
--
Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
Joe
> In article <nos-B60EF7.1...@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
> "dbu." <n...@nos.net> wrote:
>
>> Paul won't run as an independent.
>
> He would compromise his principles and support the GOP candidate?
>
>> If he were to run he would get few votes nor would he be a threat to
>> the Republican nominee.
>
> So if he ran as an independent, all his supporters will desert him?
>
>> Pulling out of Iraq at this point surely is not a move onto the right
>> track.
>
> It surely is. A graduated, time based withdrawal.
>
>> Increasing taxes as as been mentioned already would surely cause a huge
>> loss of jobs and throw the economy into a tailspin.
>
> As compared to the current policy of building up the national deficit
> and debt, and putting the burden on our children and children's
> children? It's going to come crashing down on us the way it is going.
>
>> Why would you think the democrats would put us on the right track for
>> pete's sake?
>
> Because they won't continue the train wreck course we're on now. They'll
> get rid of the disastrous Every Child Left Behind program; they'll get
> us on the track to decent medical care, especially for children; they'll
> reverse the anti-choice policies that the GOP is imposing on the
> country; they'll get rid of Don't Ask, Don't Tell; they'll work to
> assure equal rights for all Americans; etc.
What a moron.
"No child left behind" is Ted Kennedy's brain child.
Socialized medicine is a joke everywhere it has been implemented.
The recent failure to pass the crappy Medical act had nothing to do with
the "children", it was about the taxes, and the attempt to eliminate the
tobacco industry. Bush offered to let it go if the Dums stuck with the
current standards, adjusted for inflation. They wanted the campaign
slogan, not the medical act.
"Don't ask don't tell" was Clinton's baby. You really think his husband
would move to change it?
Stop listening to your religious talking points coming from the far-
left. Actually read the information for yourself. Who knows, perhaps
you might be smart enough to understand it and actually come to your own
opinions, instead of spewing those you read at moveon.com and the
Democrat Underground...
--
Joe - Registered Linux User #449481
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
time..." - Danny, American History X
Tegger
> In article <nos-B60EF7.1...@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
> "dbu." <n...@nos.net> wrote:
>
>
>> Why would you think the democrats would put us on the right track for
>> pete's sake?
>
> Because they won't continue the train wreck course we're on now.
> They'll get rid of the disastrous Every Child Left Behind program;
> they'll get us on the track to decent medical care, especially for
> children; they'll reverse the anti-choice policies that the GOP is
> imposing on the country; they'll get rid of Don't Ask, Don't Tell;
> they'll work to assure equal rights for all Americans; etc.
>
All the items you list as needing fixes require LESS government
meddling, not more. And not just "different" meddling either, but
actually LESS. None, ideally.
Government should be outright prohibited from meddling in almost any
area of human life. Hey, I sound just like Thomas Jefferson, an American
hero of long standing.
The Democrats want far, far more meddling than the US has ever seen
since, oh, since the first election won by Bush II, or maybe since LBJ,
or maybe since FDR, or maybe since Wilson. All of whom were disastrous
executives, highly destructive of the American dream.
Indeed the current crop of Dems seem to be drooling, gasping,
masturbating, absolutely slavering over the prospect of wielding ever
more POWER. Just look at Pelosi's current insane attack against an
empire that died 85 years ago.
Any "train wrecks" suffered by the US have been directly caused by the
fact that government legislators, regulators and bureaucrats can do
whatever they or their lobbyist puppetmasters want, without any sort of
repercussions at all.
Would I vote for Ron Paul? No. He's a statist conservative, not a
Jeffersonian liberal. And he is most certainly no "libertarian", even as
he lays claim to that label.
Ron Paul wants government control of *this* type, but not *that* type.
He seems to think this makes him obviously different from your general
type of statist who wants government control of *that* type but not
*this* type. Ron, get a clue.
Would I vote Democrat? No. They are statist socialists in all but name,
and are as dangerous as are all true-believer statists who want, very
very desperately, to force their views on other people, under penalty of
law.
Government is the problem, not the solution. So said Jefferson 200 years
ago, and so it is still true.
--
Tegger
Bob & Holly Wilson
alt.autos.toyota
alt.autos.honda
rec.autos.makers.honda
alt.energy.automobile
Looks like there are four good candidates.
Bob Wilson
Grumpy AuContraire
Doctor Geller wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:17:00 GMT, Grumpy AuContraire
> <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
>
snip
>>
>>
>>Thank you for a most intelligent post.
>>
>>Moron!
>>
>>JT
>
>
> You signed your post twice: once as Moron and then as JT.
>
> A moron is someone like you who just vomited that human contributions
> might be a factor. The fact that I mocked your pathetic denial based
> diseased mental processes so well really stung you into self-defense
> mode.
>
> Oh.
>
> You're Welcome.
>
> The Doctor
Spin it anyway you want.
Your sheeple attitude (and knowledge) reveal you for what you are... Not
credible.
JT
Tegger
news:Xns99D4D3006...@66.250.146.128:
> In message news:Xns99D4CFC0...@207.14.116.130, Tegger sprach
> forth the following:
>
>> Would I vote for Ron Paul? No. He's a statist conservative, not a
>> Jeffersonian liberal. And he is most certainly no "libertarian", even
>> as he lays claim to that label.
>>
>> Ron Paul wants government control of *this* type, but not *that*
>> type. He seems to think this makes him obviously different from your
>> general type of statist who wants government control of *that* type
>> but not *this* type. Ron, get a clue.
>
> I'm sure you're ready to back that claim up with documented citations,
> right?
You have Google, right? Dig it up yourself. Or are you just trying to pick
a fight?
--
Tegger
Tegger
> In message news:Xns99D4CFC0...@207.14.116.130, Tegger sprach
> forth the following:
>
>> Just look at Pelosi's current insane attack against an
>> empire that died 85 years ago.
>
> Yeah, how dare the United States meddle in the internal affairs of
> other nations...
Yes. How can the United States meddle in the affairs of the Ottoman Empire?
Please tell me how they can do this in 2007, when the Ottoman Empire
imploded and shattered in 1915?
--
Tegger
Tegger
> In message news:Xns99D4D852...@207.14.116.130, Tegger sprach
> forth the following:
>
>> "Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute" <nos...@whitehouse.gov> wrote in
>> news:Xns99D4D3006...@66.250.146.128:
>>
>>> In message news:Xns99D4CFC0...@207.14.116.130, Tegger sprach
>>> forth the following:
>>>
>>>> Would I vote for Ron Paul? No. He's a statist conservative, not a
>>>> Jeffersonian liberal. And he is most certainly no "libertarian",
>>>> even as he lays claim to that label.
>>>>
>>>> Ron Paul wants government control of *this* type, but not *that*
>>>> type. He seems to think this makes him obviously different from
>>>> your general type of statist who wants government control of *that*
>>>> type but not *this* type. Ron, get a clue.
>>>
>>> I'm sure you're ready to back that claim up with documented
>>> citations, right?
>>
>>
>>
>> You have Google, right? Dig it up yourself. Or are you just trying
>> to pick a fight?
>
> You made a claim. A false claim. I called you on it. Put up or shut
> up.
>
> Ron Paul is in no way, shape or form a "statist"; neither does he want
> "government control of this type or that type".
>
What does Ron Paul want to do about illegal Mexican immigration?
--
Tegger
Tegger
> In message news:Xns99D4DCB3...@207.14.116.130, Tegger sprach
> forth the following:
>>
>>
>> What does Ron Paul want to do about illegal Mexican immigration?
>
> Look at his website:
>
> http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/border-security-and-immigration-refor
> m/
>
> The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without
> secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight
> terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my
> six point plan:
Before you go off half-cocked, Google Teddy Kennedy's Immigration Act of
1965.
Wonder why you now have a problem with those little brown people? Blame the
the drunken Democrat from Massachusetts.
--
Tegger
Tony Harding
> In message news:bcq1i3157ls84j0ql...@4ax.com, Doctor Geller
> sprach forth the following:
>
>> On 25 Oct 2007 06:03:52 GMT, "Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute"
>> <nos...@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> In message news:1192899378....@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com, EdV
>>> sprach forth the following:
>>>
>>>> I'm not a hybrid owner. To
>>>> be honest I'm guilty too, do I want a keep my money and buy a less
>>>> expensive non hybrid car or do I my part to reduce carbon emission and
>>>> buy a hybrid. I kept my money.
>>> Typical do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do lieberal.
>> Is that similar to a RIPiglican urging others to go die in a war while
>> they stay at home?
>
> I'm supporting Ron Paul, cocksucker. So you'll have to wave your broad
> brush of ignorance somewhere else.
>
> plonk
plonk, huh, we'll see about that.
Tony Harding
> In article <Xns99D4B86A32...@66.250.146.128>,>> In message news:nos-434FE4.1...@comcast.dca.giganews.com, dbu.
>> sprach forth the following:
>>
>>> In article <Xns99D4B59E5...@66.250.146.128>,>>>> In message news:nos-6B65A5.1...@comcast.dca.giganews.com,
>>>> dbu. sprach forth the following:
>>>>
>>>>> If we got out now it would be another Cambodia. The middle east
>>>>> would be in flames controlled by Iran. A much wider war would break
>>>>> out involving more countries. The situation would be much worse
>>>>> than it is now.
>>>> I. Don't. Care. Not. Our. Country.
>>> Well, I care.
>> Then why don't you get your fat faggot ass out of your momma's scab-
>> infected cunt and onto the next C-130 bound for Mosul, chickenshit?
>
> I would if I could.
>
> I've spent quite a few hours in the cockpit of a C-130 BTW.
Blowing the pilot doesn't count as combat duty, numbnuts.
Tony Harding
Geez, sorry to see this rant, Tegger, I respected you highly in the
past. All the more reason to can the political crap in this NG and talk
about Hondas.
Torx
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <13i1ucp...@corp.supernews.com>,
> geo...@lava.net (Geoff Miller) wrote:
>
> > > If you hate America, vote Republican.
> >
> > I vote Republican because like Republicans and unlike many if not
> > most Democrats, I love America.
>
> Most right wingers don't care about America; they support policies
> destructive to the nation.
>
> > I used to be a Democrat. Then I grew up.
>
> And became senile.
>
> > > Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
> >
> > Nice doublethink. You don't "support the troops" unless you support
> > what the troops are doing.
>
> If you don't bother to think, that's what you do.
Michelle keeps forgetting add "in my opinion"
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Tegger
> In article <Xns99D4CFC0...@207.14.116.130>,
> Tegger <teg...@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>
>> > Because they won't continue the train wreck course we're on now.
>> > They'll get rid of the disastrous Every Child Left Behind program;
>> > they'll get us on the track to decent medical care, especially for
>> > children; they'll reverse the anti-choice policies that the GOP is
>> > imposing on the country; they'll get rid of Don't Ask, Don't Tell;
>> > they'll work to assure equal rights for all Americans; etc.
>>
>> All the items you list as needing fixes require LESS government
>> meddling, not more. And not just "different" meddling either, but
>> actually LESS. None, ideally.
>
> "No Child Left Behind" is government meddling. The anti-choice
> policies is government meddling. "Don't Ask Don't Tell" is government
> meddling. Laws preventing gays from adopting children or marrying
> each other is government meddling. The Democrats will reduce
> government meddling in all those areas.
I think that unlikely, given their starry-eyed attraction to meddling in
so many other areas.
>
> Health care is a different kettle of fish, though; the mess we're in
> is the result of HMOs and other health insurance companies. No
> government action will let them run rampant and make the situation
> even worse. Capitalism is a great institution, and is probably the
> best economic system there is; however, unrestrained capitalism is
> just as bad as total government control.
As somebody famous once said, capitalism is a great system, except that
it's never been tried.
The current health care and insurance mess is entirely government-
created, and can be solved by prohibiting governments from meddling
in it.
TORT (liability)
----------------
Class action; contingency-fee lawyering; bottom-of-the-barrel jury
selection; massive, wildly outlandish punitives, even in cases (like
Vioxx) where the jury foreman admitted he had NO idea what the defense
was saying.
These all conspire to create massive risk for medical suppliers and
their insurance companies. Who wants to be the next Johns Manville or
Dow Corning?
INSURANCE OLIGOPOLIES
---------------------
Americans are prohibited by law from purchasing insurance from outside
their home states. Lowered competition means higher prices.
INDUSTRY INSURANCE
------------------
Out-of-control tort means massive insurance hikes for industry, since
the insurance companies' exposure is far more than it was 40 years ago.
The hit is not just on direct malpractice insurance as bought by
obstetricians and anesthetists, but on the makers and suppliers of
equipment and pharmaceuticals. It's accumulative, one added on top of
the other by the time the cost hits the final payer (often an insurance
company, ironically).
CONSUMER INSURANCE
------------------
Many states have anti-discriminatory regulations that prevent insurance
companies from performing the traditional actuarial assessments that
were standard for over 200 years. This means they cannot charge
according to perceived risk levels, so EVERYBODY's insurance goes up to
compensate. This way they get around governmental and activist charges
of "discrimination".
States often have "must issue" laws. These dictate that if somebody
applies to them for insurance, the company MUST issue a policy to the
applicant. This has a tendency to make people avoid buying insurance
until they actually need it, so the insurance company ends up being
sucker-punched with immediate high costs.
Further, states tend to have rules that dictate that if insurance
companies wish to offer one kind of insurance in that state, that
company must offer ALL its product lines. Withdraw one (such as flood or
health), and they are barred from selling ANYTHING. So what happens to
rates? They go up, of course.
TAX CODE
--------
Just after WWII, the government retained wartime price controls for a
few years. This meant that companies, desperately needing labor to meet
demand, could not attract that labor by offering better wages than the
competition.
They COULD offer better benefits, however, so they did. This caused a
distortion where insurance became a business expense for the companies,
them paying for it with pre-tax dollars. But if /you/ bought insurance
privately, you paid for it with after-tax dollars. This is a situation
that still exists.
It wasn’t so bad until rates began climbing for the reasons given above,
but it’s a real problem now. A large chunk of the "40 million Americans
without insurance" are between jobs.
MEDICARE/MEDICAID FUNDING MODEL
-------------------------------
Private insurance originally paid only for standard job billing. If
hospitals or other medical providers wanted to make capital improvements
to their infrastructure (buy new machines, put a new wing on the
building, etc.), they had to do it like any other company, and save up
for it, or take out debt at a financial institution.
Many medical providers were initially leery of the government’s new idea
for Medicare/Medicaid, as they were afraid they might become civil
servants, unable to do anything outside what the governmental strings
allowed. The government’s answer? Permit providers to add capital costs
to their billings to Medicare/aid.
Well guess what happened? The astronomical bills they began receiving
from providers immediately caused big budgetary problems for the Johnson
presidency. Johnson solved that by simply debasing the currency, which
led directly to the ravaging inflation of the ‘70s.
Medicare spending increased 11% last year, about 8% higher than the
inflation rate.
Excellent reading:
"Hillarycare -- The Preview", by Sally G. Pipes,
The Wall Street Journal, Oct 12th.
--
Tegger
Tegger
news:kDeUi.7005$qt4....@newsfe12.lga:
>
> Geez, sorry to see this rant, Tegger, I respected you highly in the
> past. All the more reason to can the political crap in this NG and
> talk about Hondas.
>
>
I'm done as of this post. I've said all I want to.
--
Tegger
EdV
> In article <1193237610.231637.210...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> rick++ <rick...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I'd save 100 gallons a year going from a civic to a hybrid.
> > I figured the payback was about 11 years, not counting
> > increased maintenance costs of a more complex vehicle.
> > To the green-snobs out there, I am already driving one
> > the top 5% top mileage vehicles in the USA.
>
> For 11 years you need to include main battery replacement, before that.
> Did you, it costs big bucks?
hybrid car batteries will be recycled and used in weapons of mass
destruction
Doctor Geller
<nos...@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
>In message news:bcq1i3157ls84j0ql...@4ax.com, Doctor Geller
>sprach forth the following:
>
>> On 25 Oct 2007 06:03:52 GMT, "Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute"
>><nos...@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
>>
>>>In message news:1192899378....@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com, EdV
>>>sprach forth the following:
>>>
>>>> I'm not a hybrid owner. To
>>>> be honest I'm guilty too, do I want a keep my money and buy a less
>>>> expensive non hybrid car or do I my part to reduce carbon emission and
>>>> buy a hybrid. I kept my money.
>>>
>>>Typical do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do lieberal.
>>
>> Is that similar to a RIPiglican urging others to go die in a war while
>> they stay at home?
>
>I'm supporting Ron Paul, cocksucker. So you'll have to wave your broad
>brush of ignorance somewhere else.
>
>plonk
A Male Prostitute and a coward: Double Republican.
EdV
> "Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute" <nos...@whitehouse.gov> wrote innews:Xns99D4DBA4DA...@66.250.146.128:
>
>
>
> > forth the following:
>
> >> "Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute" <nos...@whitehouse.gov> wrote in
> >>news:Xns99D4D3006...@66.250.146.128:
>
> >>> forth the following:
>
> >>>> Would I vote for Ron Paul? No. He's a statist conservative, not a
> >>>> Jeffersonian liberal. And he is most certainly no "libertarian",
> >>>> even as he lays claim to that label.
>
> >>>> Ron Paul wants government control of *this* type, but not *that*
> >>>> type. He seems to think this makes him obviously different from
> >>>> your general type of statist who wants government control of *that*
> >>>> type but not *this* type. Ron, get a clue.
>
> >>> I'm sure you're ready to back that claim up with documented
> >>> citations, right?
>
> >> You have Google, right? Dig it up yourself. Or are you just trying
> >> to pick a fight?
>
> > You made a claim. A false claim. I called you on it. Put up or shut
> > up.
>
> > Ron Paul is in no way, shape or form a "statist"; neither does he want
> > "government control of this type or that type".
>
> What does Ron Paul want to do about illegal Mexican immigration?
>
> --
> Tegger
Why specifically mexican?? Last time I checked there are Canadian, and
Asian illegals working in the US too. =)
Elliot Richmond
<use...@DE.LETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote:
>Waiving the right to remain silent, bwils...@hotmail.com (Bob & Holly
>Wilson) said:
>
>> alt.autos.toyota.prius
>> alt.autos.toyota
>> alt.autos.honda
>> rec.autos.makers.honda
>> alt.energy.automobile
>>
>> Looks like there are four good candidates.
>
>That's five. And, why are you telling us..?
I assumed the poster was volunteering to be placed in a killfile, so I
accepted the offer.
Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher
Freelance science writer
Tony Harding
Excellent. :)
I thought you lived in Canada?
Tony Harding
Whoa, now you have the Bushies' attention! :)
Tony Harding
> sprach forth the following:
>
>> In article <Xns99D4B5B9D2...@66.250.146.128>,
>> "Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute" <nos...@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> In message news:nos-6B65A5.1...@comcast.dca.giganews.com,
>>> dbu. sprach forth the following:
>>>
>>>> If we got out now it would be another Cambodia. The middle east
>>>> would be in flames controlled by Iran. A much wider war would break
>>>> out involving more countries. The situation would be much worse
>>>> than it is now.
>> You could have them here, next door to you if we pull out.
>
> Bullshit. Zero Iraqis involved in 9/11. Zero Iraqis connected to any US
> terror targets.
>
> Following your "logic", the US should exact regime change on Saudi Arabia.
>
>> What do you
>> think about that situation?
>
> What would you have thought had China sent troops to Florida during the
> Gore/Bush vote counting?
Hallelujah!
Tegger
@newsfe18.lga:
>
> I thought you lived in Canada?
>
I do.
--
Tegger
Grumpy AuContraire
Tegger wrote:
> "Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute" <nos...@whitehouse.gov> wrote in
> news:Xns99D4DE50A5...@66.250.146.128:
>
>
>>In message news:Xns99D4DCB3...@207.14.116.130, Tegger sprach
>>forth the following:
>
>
>>>
>>>What does Ron Paul want to do about illegal Mexican immigration?
>>
>>Look at his website:
>>
>>http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/border-security-and-immigration-refor
>>m/
>>
>>The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without
>>secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight
>>terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my
>>six point plan:
>
>
>
>
> Before you go off half-cocked, Google Teddy Kennedy's Immigration Act of
> 1965.
>
> Wonder why you now have a problem with those little brown people? Blame the
> the drunken Democrat from Massachusetts.
>
Heh... If you look back for the past forty-five years, there were a lot
of "drunken Democrats." A lot of today's problems were birth during the
mid 1960's such as:
• The Great Society which has fostered dependence on guv'ment more than
ever. LBJ's attempt to fix his legacy
• Introducing the grand plan to remove most manufacturing from the US
• Affirmative Action - (Don't even get me started on this one)
• Dumbing down educational standards to accommodate sub standard students
• Gutting the military and continuing the Truman doctrine to not win any
wars
• And then that nasty immigraion bill/law that you mentioned
Anyone want to continue on all the damage Carter caused?
<grrrrr>
JT
Grumpy AuContraire
Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute wrote:
> In message news:Xns99D4E51F...@207.14.116.130, Tegger sprach
> forth the following:
>
>
>>"Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute" <nos...@whitehouse.gov> wrote in
>>news:Xns99D4DE50A5...@66.250.146.128:
>>
>>
>>>In message news:Xns99D4DCB3...@207.14.116.130, Tegger sprach
>>>forth the following:
>>
>>>>
>>>>What does Ron Paul want to do about illegal Mexican immigration?
>>>
>>>Look at his website:
>>>
>>>http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/border-security-and-immigration-refor
>>>m/
>>>
>>>The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without
>>>secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight
>>>terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my
>>>six point plan:
>>
>>
>>
>>Before you go off half-cocked, Google Teddy Kennedy's Immigration Act
>>of 1965.
>
>
> Been there done that.
>
>
>>Wonder why you now have a problem with those little brown people? Blame
>>the the drunken Democrat from Massachusetts.
>
>
> You're forgetting the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA)? Alan
> Simpson? Romano Mazzoli? Ronald Reagan? Ring a bell?
Yes I do and it didn't work so why should we try it again?
JT