Brakes unable to stop runaway Lexus in California?
john
can't stop the car? That's scary!
"In a 911 call, one of the passengers said the Lexus was speeding at
120 m.p.h., and witnesses said the car’s tires were on fire when it
crashed – possibly from the driver slamming on the brakes."
Jeff Strickland
"john" <john...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:856b26a6-caca-4e44...@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
<JS>
I'm thinking the driver must have rode the brakes far longer than was
needed to stop the car. I have to wonder how ling it took him to figure out
that the gas pedal was stuck ...
</JS>
Adam
> So slamming on the brakes enough to cause tires to catch fire still
> can't stop the car? That's scary!
>
> "In a 911 call, one of the passengers said the Lexus was speeding at
> 120 m.p.h., and witnesses said the car’s tires were on fire when it
> crashed – possibly from the driver slamming on the brakes."
>
If you have a runaway, turn on your fourway blinkers to telegraph your
fellow drivers you have a situation.Throw the shift into Neutral
(Notice that N is right next to D and you can usually shift into it
without pressing that shift button). Change into the right lane with a
suitable shoulder and coast or brake down to a safe slow speed.
Transfer into the shoulder and then stop. Turn off car. Breathe. Try
to correct any correctable condition. Loose water bottles tend to roll
under the accel pedal as well.
I am an advocate of driving refresher courses and people doing EVOC
courses. You be surprised how stupid people get after 6 months passing
their driving exam.
CEG
I wonder if they even tried to turn off the ignition at all. That is
all that is needed to stop a runaway car.
Adam
> I wonder if they even tried to turn off the ignition at all. That is
> all that is needed to stop a runaway car.
Your age is showing. Some of the cars with those RFID chips inside the
keys you cant do that. At least with those cars with the Press to
Start button can kill the motor, but you have to read the manual
first. Some you have to hold the start button , some you have to press
twice. confusing aint it?
Turning off the ignition by turning the ignition key is not
necessarily the best way to stop a runaway. Most people twist the key
striaght to locking the steering column, making a bad situation worse.
The driver of that MVA was not the owner of the car, making the
situation worse, driving a unfamiliar car. Best practice with such an
auto is to throw it into neutral and let the rev limiter engage when
the engine red-lines.
Oldphart
If you are still traveling at a high rate of speed, adding another
thrill is not what one would want.....
CEG
> > I wonder if they even tried to turn off the ignition at all. That is
> > all that is needed to stop a runaway car.
>
> Your age is showing. Some of the cars with those RFID chips inside the
> keys you cant do that. At least with those cars with the Press to
> Start button can kill the motor, but you have to read the manual
> first. Some you have to hold the start button , some you have to press
> twice. confusing aint it?
Are they making cars that difficult where you actually have to read
the manual to use it?? It seems to me they need to make it easier to
shut a vehicle down.
>
> Turning off the ignition by turning the ignition key is not
> necessarily the best way to stop a runaway. Most people twist the key
> striaght to locking the steering column, making a bad situation worse.
>
If the car is in gear you can't turn the key to the lock position
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
Won't even get close to redline. It will bounce around at 3500RPM in
neutral.
Jeff Strickland
"Sir F. A. Rien" <jaS...@gbr.online.com> wrote in message
news:076cc5hmd9h982i9c...@4ax.com...
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwl...@yahoo.com> found these unused words:
> gear [to hell with a blown engine] or just turn OFF the ignition!
>
> Shows the 'quality' of current driver education in CAFA Land ... !
>
CAFA?
The driver was a CHP officer, one likes to think he would have been trained
on stopping a car in an emergency.
Jeff Strickland
> are
> both civil and serving oriented.
>
> Ca. F. A.
> ... or do I need to Bartosh further?
>
Looks like you're a Valley Girl, but I don't do valley speak.
Ron Dargenio
It may be possible to make a throttle stick, but here are the laws of
physics:
No car can overpower its brakes. From any speed. If your foot is on
the brake pedal the car will come to a stop. From 10, 20, 80, 120 MPH.
I have personally done this on a closed track. When people say the car
continues to accelerate despite "pressing with all their might" on the
brakes, their foot wasn't on the brake pedal.
Simple. End of story.
Michael Golden
> > Most people twist the key striaght to locking the steering column,
> > making a bad situation worse.
>
>
> It may be possible to make a throttle stick, but here are the laws of
> physics:
> No car can overpower its brakes. From any speed. If your foot is on
> the brake pedal the car will come to a stop. From 10, 20, 80, 120 MPH.
> I have personally done this on a closed track. When people say the car
> continues to accelerate despite "pressing with all their might" on the
> brakes, their foot wasn't on the brake pedal.
>
> Simple. End of story.
The cars I've driven, you have to REMOVE the key to get the steering
column to lock.
Reed
If the engine is held, or stuck, at full throttle (say 120 mph), can
the car be stopped by the brakes ?? I have not tried it myself, but I
doubt any stock brakes could overcome full throttle.
Mark
>
> It may be possible to make a throttle stick, but here are the laws of
> physics:
> No car can overpower its brakes. From any speed. If your foot is on
> the brake pedal the car will come to a stop. From 10, 20, 80, 120 MPH.
> I have personally done this on a closed track. When people say the car
> continues to accelerate despite "pressing with all their might" on the
> brakes, their foot wasn't on the brake pedal.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
you are wrong, it is not that simple,
at full throttle, there is little vacumm for the brake power booster,
once the storage vacumm is used up you loose the power boost to your
brakes,,
do you think you can over come a full throttle engine with power
brakes that have lost their power boost...
Mark
Ray O
"Mark" <mako...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:948703ee-d557-4114...@w19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Even with no power assist, pedal effort does not increase with vehicle or
engine speed. Before power assisted brakes were introduced, people
routinely stopped vehicles by stepping hard on the brake pedal. While it
does take more pedal effort to brake a vehicle that was designed to have
power assist and that lost the assist, the amount of effort is more or less
the same whether the car is traveling at 30 or 60 MPH and with the engine at
idle or at redline. Stopping distances will increase with higher speeds and
higher engine RPM, just like it does when the power assist is working.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
hls
"Ray O" <roki...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message Before
> routinely stopped vehicles by stepping hard on the brake pedal.
That is true, Ray, but also in those days we had front and rear drums, for
the most part.
Discs required a lot more pressure than drums, hence the power assist brakes
became
a necessity rather than just a luxury convenience.
som...@some.domain
more pressure to stop my 650 triumph with a doubling leading shoe front than
a xt 750 jamaha, which had one disc front and weighs more.
dsi1
I doubt there's much validity that vacuum assisted brakes were required
because of the advent of disk brakes. My first car, a 67 Barracuda had
drums and vac boost, as did most cars of the time. That one had a tiny
V8 - a 273! Of course, today that would be a large engine - 4.5L. :-)
Ray O
"hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:sJWdnfF9FOHXI5zW...@giganews.com...
Among other things, pedal effort is a function of the design of the master
cylinder, difference in size between the master cylinder and wheel cylinders
(disc or drum), and pedal travel distance. The larger surface area of the
piston in a disc brake caliper relative to the surface area of the piston in
the master cylinder gives a mechanical advantage over the smaller surface
area of a drum brake wheel cylinder.
IMO, the biggest reason that it takes more pedal effort to brake on a
vehicle that was designed with power brakes and that has lost power assist
is that if the vehicle were designed to take minimal pedal effort without
power assist and then you add power assist, the brakes become very touchy
and difficult for most drivers to modulate. My dad's '67 Ambassador had
very touchy brakes, and in a panic stop, the passengers all got tossed
forward against their seat belts.
hls
"dsi1" <ds...@spamnet.com> wrote in message news:5eqMm.20048
> I doubt there's much validity that vacuum assisted brakes were required
> because of the advent of disk brakes. My first car, a 67 Barracuda had
> drums and vac boost, as did most cars of the time. That one had a tiny
> V8 - a 273! Of course, today that would be a large engine - 4.5L. :-)
Power assist brakes, as I said, became luxury items. They were not
absolutely necessary on drum brake cars, but certainly made braking
effortless. Finally they found their way onto almost every car.
Disc brakes on large American cars, without power assist, can be monsters.
It is just the way things evolved.
Kevin
news:DMGdnVZK6rC8KJ_W...@giganews.com:
unfortunatly your a moron. the brake peddle effort is easily controled
by the brake peddle ratio. it can have high or low effort with or
without power assist. power assist was simply a sales gimmic just as it
is today. the only reason for power assist is to shorten up the peddle
travel. get your facts right and go away. KB
--
THUNDERSNAKE #9
Protect your rights or "Lose" them
The 2nd Admendment guarantees the others
Heron McKeister
Ah for the days of non integrated proportioning and
metering valves ;^)
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Disk brake calipers contain more fluid than drum brake cyls, and
require more fluid movement at higher pressure to provide the same
braking force, generally speaking. Therefore, disk brakes derive a
much grater advantage from power assist than servo type (like Bendix)
drum brakes. It allows you to get good braking pressure without
extreme pedal travel.
Non Servo drum brakes like the old Chrysler Center Plane, girling
twinleading shoe, and GM Huck brake systems would have benefited
highly from power assist as well -and GENERALLY required either more
pedal pressure or longer pedal travel than the more common, recently,
Bendix style "self energizing" or "servo" brakes.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
Oh for the days of cable and rod actuated brakes, with mechanical
brake force distribution -via different length bellcranks.
dsi1
>>
> Disk brake calipers contain more fluid than drum brake cyls, and
> require more fluid movement at higher pressure to provide the same
> braking force, generally speaking. Therefore, disk brakes derive a
> much grater advantage from power assist than servo type (like Bendix)
> drum brakes. It allows you to get good braking pressure without
> extreme pedal travel.
I'm familiar with basic hydraulics but the fact remains that brakes used
the same system of vacuum assist before disks became popular. It doesn't
matter which system gets more benefit from power assist because the
truth is that both drums and disks pretty much suck without it.
Anyolmouse
"Heron McKeister" <n...@home.com> wrote in message
news:QwEMm.17416$ET3....@newsfe17.iad...
I kind of miss my 1937 Tudor Ford Fastback with mechanical brakes. It
took about as long to go from 60 to 0 as it did from 0 to 60 with the
V-60 engine. <Grin>
--
A man is known by the company he keeps- Unknown
Anyolmouse
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Big enough self energizing drum brakes do NOT NEED power assist.
Disk brakes DO - they are by nature NOT self energizing, and require a
lot of brake force. Not many disk brake cars, historically, without
power assist. And most Mopars built that way in the seventies have
had major front end damage at some time in their life. Used to be
impossible to find front end sheetmetal at the wreckers for them.