Tundra owners grumble over rumble
C. E. White
Mark Rechtin
Automotive News
October 22, 2007 - 12:01 am ET
LOS ANGELES - Toyota's Tundra pickup was hit with a double whammy last week.
Angry consumers are peppering the Internet with complaints that the torque
converter in the 2007 Tundra's six-speed transmission has problems
disengaging during gearshifts - a problem that Toyota acknowledges.
Meanwhile, the Tundra 4x4 model took a broadside from Consumer Reports
magazine, which rated it "below average" in projected reliability.
Toyota thought it had put the redesigned Tundra's teething problems in the
rearview mirror. First there was a batch of defective camshafts. Then it
received a four-star rating in NHTSA crash tests, one star less than its
Detroit rivals.
The latest quality snarl involves a vibration coming from the transmission
when changing gears under gentle acceleration or deceleration.
Toyota Motor Sales officials have nicknamed the problem "the rumble strip"
because the slippage causes vibration similar to the sensation of driving
over the wake-up strips at the side of highways.
The rumbling usually lasts several seconds. But the problem sometimes
worsens to the point that some owners can't shift into certain gears.
The problem has been reported only in six-speed transmissions, which are
linked to the popular 5.7-liter V-8 engine. Since the 2007 Tundra's February
launch, the 5.7-liter engine has been installed in 70 percent of about
135,000 Tundras sold. That means the problem could affect nearly 100,000
vehicles.
Tundra travails
Since its February launch, Toyota's full-sized pickup has taken some hits
related to quality.
Bad batch of camshafts
Crash rating below rivals'
Consumer Reports snub
Faulty torque converters
Bad torque converter
Before Toyota's technical service department traced the problem to the
torque converter, some Toyota dealers replaced entire transmissions, said
Toyota spokesman John Hanson. If the vibration occurs now, likely only the
torque converter will be replaced.
Toyota still is trying to trace what exactly is wrong with the torque
converter.
Internal field reports have yet to show anyone stranded by the problem,
Hanson said. But Tundra owners in several Internet chat rooms say their
transmissions quit shifting properly, forcing them to limp the truck to a
dealership. The rumble-strip effect often occurs within the first 1,000
miles of ownership.
Isolated instances
Pickup owners are especially particular about vehicle reliability, says Mike
Levine, editor of the consumer Internet site pickuptruck.com.
Since Toyota staked its reputation on reliability, any problem makes it
tougher for Toyota to persuade domestic loyalists to switch allegiances,
Levine said.
Reports of the problem have been sporadic. Large dealers in northern
California, Texas and Ohio said they had no reported owner complaints about
Tundra transmissions. An executive for a group of Midwestern dealerships,
speaking anonymously, said his mechanics had seen one or two instances.
Craig Whetter, executive vice president of Wilson Automotive Group, says the
group's six Toyota stores in California and Arizona have sold 2,236 Tundras
this year but have not seen a single bad torque converter.
"These guys haven't turned a bolt on one, let alone replaced one," Whetter
said.
Of bigger concern to Toyota is the number of vehicles affected.
The faulty camshaft problem was limited to several hundred early-build
vehicles, but owners of Tundras built as recently as September have
complained of defective transmissions.
The torque converter for the six-speed transmission used with the 5.7-liter
V-8 is built at an Aisin AW plant in Durham, N.C. Aisin officials declined
to comment, referring interview requests to Toyota.
badgolferman
I'm not completeley surprised by all this quality slipping news coming
out lately. Although I am still a Toyota loyalist I have personally
noticed the quality of the controls, road noise, inside material and
other non-essential parts. All Toyotas I have owned since my 1994
Camry just don't measure up in feel or driving experience.
All that said I would still choose a Toyota over almost any brand just
because everything under the skin and cabin lasts for such a long time
without needing repair.
C. E. White
"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0fcqv4f...@news.readfreenews.net...
> I'm not completeley surprised by all this quality slipping news coming
> out lately. Although I am still a Toyota loyalist I have personally
> noticed the quality of the controls, road noise, inside material and
> other non-essential parts. All Toyotas I have owned since my 1994
> Camry just don't measure up in feel or driving experience.
>
> All that said I would still choose a Toyota over almost any brand just
> because everything under the skin and cabin lasts for such a long time
> without needing repair.
I don't think this problem is really that big a deal. Toyota has had
problems like ever other manufacturer for years. However, in many cases they
get the bugs out in other markets before selling the product in the US. The
new Tundra has quite a few US unique componets (5.7L engine, 6 speed truck
transmission). Because of this, the US market is doing the debugging. I
only know one person who has a "new" Tundra and he seems happy - but then
the biggest thing he likely to haul is groceries. I am seeing a lot more big
Tundras around. It seems to be a moderate hit with the "I don't really need
a truck, but want one crowd." The hard bed cover and chrome brush guards are
clear indicators that it is a hit with the poser crowd. I have yet to see
one outside of a Toyota commerical hauling anything at all (even a boat).
Anyhow, both Ford and Dodge had problems with shuttering torque convertors
in the recent past. The camshaft problems seems to have been an early
teething problem that has been resolved.
Ed
Chips
the internet with complaints".
Am I missing something, or is there not one single "new" Tundra complaint on
this NG?
The older Tundra, like what I have (2002) had brake issues, tranny issues,
various other things that showed up here.
GC
"C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:13hp79l...@corp.supernews.com...
Phisherman
<chi...@reliableins.nospam> wrote:
>Interesting that article states "the new Tundra owners have been peppering
>the internet with complaints".
>
>Am I missing something, or is there not one single "new" Tundra complaint on
>this NG?
>
>The older Tundra, like what I have (2002) had brake issues, tranny issues,
>various other things that showed up here.
>
>GC
>
I haven't found a single issue with my 2006 SR5 8-cyl Tundra and I've
been driving it for almost 2 years. It has an automatic
transmission.
But I dislike the owner's manual and wish Toyota would give me a
(free) electronic version that I can easily search. How much would
this take a company to make this available online? I guess the
other vehicle companies don't have them either.
:-(
C. E. White
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chips" <chi...@reliableins.nospam>
Newsgroups: alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.toyota.trucks
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: Tundra owners grumble over rumble
> Interesting that article states "the new Tundra owners have been peppering
> the internet with complaints".
>
> Am I missing something, or is there not one single "new" Tundra complaint
> on this NG?
I actually thought the same thing. There were a couple of other things that
bothered me - 1) I don't think a torque converter can disengage during a
shift - maybe they meant the torque converter clutch; 2) I doubt that the
actual torque convertors are made in Durham (the transmissions are made
there), 3) I don't think must truck owner are especially particular about
reliability.
In defense of the article, I will say that usenet is no longer the primary
tool people use to discuss problems. Most people I know prefer other types
of forums. Here are a few other forums where problems are discussed:
http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2007/08/22/all-known-2007-toyota-tundra-problems/
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/114436-tundra-tailgate-failures-i-am-club/
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/113646-transmission-fault-identified/
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1669aa
http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/news/toyota/tundra/transmissions/page1.html
I think you can find enough mention of problems to qualify as "peppering the
internet with complaints."
Ed
C. E. White
"Phisherman" <no...@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:8gsph3123iiaprujg...@4ax.com...
The Pocket Reference is at
http://prg.toyotapartsandservice.com/pdfs/2006_Tundra.pdf
Toyota has some Owner's Guides on line at
http://www.toyotaiguide.com/iGuide_Tundra.htm - unfortunately they don't
have one for a 2006 Tundra (they do for a 2007).
Ed
Mike Hunter
said 'this changes everything' they were referring to the Tundra finally
getting closer to domestic trucks in build quality.
The Tundra is a far better truck than anything Toyota sold before but it
seems they still have a way to go to come close to Ford, GM and Dodge
full-size trucks in build quality
mike
"C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:13hp79l...@corp.supernews.com...
Mike Hunter
mike
"C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:13hp9sl...@corp.supernews.com...
Mike Hunter
to start to show up as complaint in a NG. The only sell around 5% of the
trucks sold in the US ;)
mike
"Chips" <chi...@reliableins.nospam> wrote in message
news:QD5Ti.37$Nz7...@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
Mike Hunter
in 2006 and again so far in 2007?
mike
"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0fcqv4f...@news.readfreenews.net...
Fuller Rath
: The Tundra is a far better truck than anything Toyota sold before but it
: seems they still have a way to go to come close to Ford, GM and Dodge
: full-size trucks in build quality
You HAVE to be kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any reliable mechanic will tell you that G(enerally) M(ediocre), Fraud & Drudge are the WORST brands for reliability. Plus look at
their resale value. You can see it falling as they are driven off the lot!
JoeSpareBedroom
news:OidTi.50416$054....@newsfe14.phx...
Don't get too wrapped up in this debate. My Kunter believes he was once in
the car business. It's a harmless, but annoying symptom. His doctors can't
do much about it except to keep him sedated much of the day.
Chips
that goes on in the usenets.
Thanks for those links.
GC
"C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:13hpvb1...@corp.supernews.com...
C. E. White
"Mike Hunter" <mike...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:eMqdnbtF3vP9voDa...@ptd.net...
> Really? Then why is it Toyota had more recalls than any other
> manufacturer in 2006 and again so far in 2007?
Mike, we covered this before. While it is true Toyota recalled the most
vehicles in 2006, it is not even close in 2007. GM, Ford, and Nissan have
all recalled more vehicles so far in 2007 than Toyota. I gave you the facts
and good references.
Ed
C. E. White
Can you point me to reasonably well collected statistics that back up this
claim? Between myself and my Father we have owned 12 Ford Trucks in the last
51 years ('56 F100, '62 F100, '67 F100, '72 F100, '75 F100, '78 Courier, '83
Ranger, '86 Ranger, '89 Rager, '92 F150, '92 Ranger, '99 Ranger). The list
of repairs is pretty short:
'56 F100 - replaced bed floor (hauling hogs is tough on bed floors)
'62 F100 - replaced one brake line (I popped it somehow)
'67 F100 - clutch
'72 F100 - nothing
'75 F100 - nothing (but it drank gas like it was water)
'78 Courier - vacuum modulator
'83 Ranger - nothing
'86 Ranger - ignition module
'89 Ranger - nothing
'92 Ranger - water pump
'92 F150 - fuel pump, a/c recharge, alternator, HVAC blower fan (I managed
to get a plastic grocery bag wrapped around the fan shaft)
'99 Ranger - nothing
These trucks weren't ride around town empty trucks. They were used on a farm
on a daily basis, hauling real loads in fields, etc. I don't know many
farmers with Toyota trucks. The only one I know persoanlly owned two of the
smaller Tacoma type trucks. One was a diesel - it required the transmission
to be rebuilt twice and the engine once. The other was a gas truck, he had
to replace the engine in that. Both suffered greatly from rust. For actually
hauling stuff, he now has a Silverado. He has a Colorado for a ride around
truck. He also has the old Toyota gas truck for his wife to use.
Ed
Roy
"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishbo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:KmdTi.19512$ya1....@news02.roc.ny...
LOL!!
JoeSpareBedroom
news:471e0a6f$0$20604$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
I suppose we should wrap up this discussion. I'll do it:
Another goofy OT post from one of our lefty kook friends ROTFLOL
ToMh
My brother in law is a Farmer in S.Dakota. He only owns Ford trucks,
as do most all Midwest farmers. He puts 300K on these things, and
beats them to hell every day. In one day that I spent with him, we
drove that truck through fields and ditches, pulled a silo across a
field, dragged feed troughs and feeders from one field to another,
then hooked up this big ass cattle trailer and hauled a bunch of cows
to the sale barn. This was just one day with his Ford truck with 285K
on it.
JoeSpareBedroom
news:nos-CDE46C.1...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article <471e0a6f$0$20604$4c36...@roadrunner.com>,
> "Roy" <R...@Fhome.net> wrote:
>
>
>> LOL!!
>
> answer the damn question diaper boy.
There is no question here. Now, take the needle out of your arm.
Mike Hunter
How often have we heard in this NG somebody saying I will not buy another
brand "X" or "Y" because of the ONE they owned that was problematic?
The Camry is the number one selling midsize car for a reason, buyers believe
it is the best car for their hard earned money.
The F150 is the best selling truck, as well as the best selling vehicle in
the US, for the same reason. The F Series truck sells at a rate nearly
twice that of the Camry.
Buyers do not continue to buy any vehicle if one they buy is problematic.
Truck buys have been buying the Ford F150 over and over and over again for
thirty years. The second best selling truck has been the Silverado.
Combined, in a few weeks, those two trucks sell at TWICE the annual selling
rate of the Tundra.
THAT should tell you what trucks, actual truck buyer think are the best
trucks for their money and the truck they continually prefer to buy.
Whether you happen to agree of not is immaterial ;)
mike
"Fuller Rath" <qwe...@cox.com> wrote in message
news:OidTi.50416$054....@newsfe14.phx...
>
Mike Hunter
friends. LOL
mike
"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishbo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:KmdTi.19512$ya1....@news02.roc.ny...
Mike Hunter
mike
"C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:13hs180...@corp.supernews.com...
Mike Hunter
brake down but now you want to deny the recalls Toyota announces? LOL
mike
"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishbo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:AVnTi.19676$B25....@news01.roc.ny...
JoeSpareBedroom
> Tundra recalls are OT? We know you Toyota loyalists think Toyota don't
> brake down but now you want to deny the recalls Toyota announces? LOL
The subject switched to your disability, which you are not aware of. That IS
the disability. The patient has no idea.
Mike Hunter
that the Tundra had a recall.
"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishbo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:wjqTi.19681$B25....@news01.roc.ny...
C. E. White
> The fact remains Toyota had the most RECALLS. ;)
>
> mike
That is not true either. I provided you with a complete list 2007 Toyota
recalls. Strictly speaking "Toyota" only has three recall campaigns in
2007:
Sept 26 - NHTSA # 07E082000 - 2007 and 2008 Camry and Lexus ES350 Floor Mats
(an equipment recall, not a vehicle recall) - approximately 55,000 vehicles
affected
Jan 19 - NHTSA # 07V013000 - 2004 to 2007 Sequoias and 2004 to 2006
Tundras - lower ball joint recall - 533,124 vehicles affected
Jul 24 - NHTSA # 07V324000 - 2007 Tacoma 4WD Pickup - propeller shaft - 108
vehicles affected
There are three more recalls for aftermarket components installed in Toyotas
(in some cases installed by Toyota dealers or distributors):
Jan 16 - NHTSA # 07E005000 - Scion XA and XB - aftermarket cruise control
(not installed by Toyota) - 2934 vehicles affected
Jan 25 - NHTSA # 07V030000 - Scion XA and XB - Gulf States installed cruise
control - 1372 vehicles affected
Jan 16 - NHTSA # 07V048000 - Scion XA and XB - Southeast Toyota installed
cruise control - 716 vehicles
As far as I can detemrine that is the complete list of 2007
"Toyota/Lexus/Scion" US Recalls. In the last five months of 2007 (May to
September) DiamlerChrysler (now Chrysler) has had 13 recalls:
May 2007 - 07V-192 - DaimlerChrysler is recalling 270,958 MY 2005 Town and
Country and Dodge Caravan minivans
May 2007 - 07V-196 - DaimlerChrysler is recalling 410 MY 2007 Dodge Caliber,
Jeep Compass and Patriot passenger vehicles
June 2007 - 07V-240 - DaimlerChrysler is recalling 798 MY 2007-2008 Sebring
and MY 2008 Dodge Avenger vehicles.
June 2007 - 07V-246 - DaimlerChrysler is recalling 39 MY 2007 Dodge and
Freightliner Sprinter 2500 and 3500 trucks.
June 2007 - 07V-247 - DaimlerChrysler is recalling 5,062 MY 2007 Dodge Ram
1500 pickup trucks
July 2007 - 07V-291 - DaimlerChrysler is recalling 80,894 MY 2007 Jeep
Wrangler and Dodge Nitro vehicles.
July 2007 - 07V-299 - DaimlerChrysler Manufacturing is recalling 4,433 MY
2001-2006 Dodge Sprinter and Freightliner Sprinter 2500 and 3500 trucks
July 2007 - 07V-325 - DaimlerChrysler Manufacturing is recalling 461 MY 2007
Dodge and Freightliner Sprinter 2500 and 3500 trucks.
September 2007 - 07V-413 - DaimlerChrysler is recalling 1,498 MY 2007
2-wheel drive Dodge Ram pickup trucks
September 2007 - 07V-414 - DaimlerChrysler is recalling 72,333 MY 2007-2008
Avenger sedan and Chrysler Sebring convertible vehicles.
Septemeber 2007 - 07V-415 - DaimlerChrysler is recalling 28,755 MY 2007-2008
Jeep Grand Cherokee and Commander sport utility vehicles
September 2007 - 07V-426 - DaimlerChrysler is recalling 1,158 MY 2008 Dodge
Avenger all wheel drive vehicles.
Septemeber 2007 - 07V-434 - DaimlerChrysler is recalling 296,550 MY 2007
Dodge Nitro, Jeep Wrangler, and MY 2006-2007 Grand Cherokee and Commander
sport utility vehicles.
Ford, GM, Nissan, VW, Volvo, and Suzuki have all had more individual recall
campaigns than Toyota so far in 2007. So to be clear - Toyota has not
recalled the most vehicles in 2007 and Toyota has not had the most recalls
in 2007.
Mike you need to stop making stuff up. It hurts your credibility when you
actaully are stating true facts.
Ed
Mike Hunter
current model year. The fact remains Toyota had the most RECALLS in 2006
and is currently highest in 2007.
mike
"C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:13hsj4t...@corp.supernews.com...
ranto...@mail.com
>
>"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:xn0fcqv4f...@news.readfreenews.net...
>
>>out lately. Although I am still a Toyota loyalist I have personally
>>noticed the quality of the controls, road noise, inside material and
>>other non-essential parts. All Toyotas I have owned since my 1994
>>Camry just don't measure up in feel or driving experience.
>>
>>All that said I would still choose a Toyota over almost any brand just
>>because everything under the skin and cabin lasts for such a long time
>>without needing repair.
>
>in 2006 and again so far in 2007?
>
than other manufacturers did. Recalls are related more to new designs
than overall quality, as Chrysler and AMC showed in the 1970s, when
they sometimes had the lowest recall rates in the industry, along with
the oldest designs. Contrary to what Toyota claims publicly, the
quality and efficiency of their North American factories are not as
good as their Japanese factories', and the designs never produced in
Japan have fared worse than the other Toyotas.
Fuller Rath
"Mike Hunter" <mike...@mailcity.com> wrote in message news:ou6dnRoMKdGf5oPa...@ptd.net...
: Spin it any way you wish but total RECALLS does not refer to only the
: current model year. The fact remains Toyota had the most RECALLS in 2006
: and is currently highest in 2007.
Yeah well for longevity and overall quality a Toy beats the "Big Three" by light years.
Fuller Rath
like a submarine as it rolls off the lot.
"Mike Hunter" <mike...@mailcity.com> wrote in message news:6_idnR31SreR34Pa...@ptd.net...
: That may be your personal opinion, but the facts prove otherwise.
: >
: >
:
:
Wickeddoll
"Fuller Rath" ...
> And most idjits don't keep an F-150 long enough for any real problems to
> show up. Check the resale value on an F-150. It dives
> like a submarine as it rolls off the lot.
>
I find that hard to believe. I remember that in one day, in the Phoenix
area, thousands of F-150s were stolen in the same day, and one of my
coworkers was a victim. She went out to the lot to go home, and her truck
was gone! (circa 2003, if I recall correctly). It's still one of the top
most often stolen vehicles.
By the way, my coworker had her truck for at least *4 years* - they stole it
anyway!
Natalie
Fuller Rath
4 years? that would average out to 48-60M miles. About the useful life span of a F-150
"Wickeddoll" <wickeddollnof...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:fg8a1e...@news.evilcabal.org...
:
: "Fuller Rath" ...
:
:
Wickeddoll
"Fuller Rath" ...
> there's no accounting for taste......... or a lack thereof
*shrug* I'm a Toyota owner (compacts), but if I were in the market for a
large vehicle, I think I'd go domestic.
>
> 4 years? that would average out to 48-60M miles. About the useful life
> span of a F-150
Unfortunately for her, she didn't find out how long it may have lasted.
Natalie
>
>
> "Wickeddoll" ...
C. E. White
> Yeah well for longevity and overall quality a Toy beats the "Big Three" by
> light years.
Care to share any proof for this sweeping statement?
Ed
C. E. White
> And most idjits don't keep an F-150 long enough for any real problems to
> show up. Check the resale value on an F-150. It dives
> like a submarine as it rolls off the lot.
I kept my last F150 for 14 years. Sold it in less than a week for my asking
price. I think the total I spent on repairs over the period was under $500.
Ed
Oldphart
drove mine. I have had a Chevy also. Good truck for those days, and
one of the toughest around. It was a '63 with a 283. But as my
experience widens and I learn, I have leaned toward the Toyota because
of three things. Durability, dependability, and operational costs.
Look at the classifieds and see what everyone is trying to sell. Ford
is in fact Number One in that category also. Long live my 93 Toy. :-)
Phisherman
$500 repairs over a 14 year period is very unusual for any vehicle.
Why did you sell it?
C. E. White
"Phisherman" <no...@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:mfkhi3trshdc1t9lj...@4ax.com...
The truck was 14 years old and had 2WD. At first I let my teenage son have
it, but it was obvious it was not going to last with him driving it. Iwanted
something newer with 4WD for my farm. The F150 was great on pavement or dry
ground, but you could get it stuck on wet dirt. My Father had a 4WD Ranger
that I borrowed to chcek fences, etc, on wet days but I decided I wanted a
4WD of my own. I got a Nissan Frontier, but at times I still miss the old
F150 - particualrly when I ride a long way. The seats in the Frontier look
great, but they aren't comfortable for more than an hour.
Ed
Phisherman
<cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote:
I had a Honda (car) for 26 years and I was waiting until it died
before I bought a truck. Now I have a 2WD and I'd expect it will last
longer than its 4WD counterparts. Seems like 90% of the trucks around
here are 4WD which I have no need since I mostly haul wood and
furniture. Most teens are hard on vehicles (when you are not
looking), especially when they get one free.
C. E. White
> I had a Honda (car) for 26 years and I was waiting until it died
> before I bought a truck. Now I have a 2WD and I'd expect it will last
> longer than its 4WD counterparts. Seems like 90% of the trucks around
> here are 4WD which I have no need since I mostly haul wood and
> furniture.
When I was young (think 500's and 60's) my Father only had 2WD trucks. He
used to have to haul feed to his hogs and hogs to market in the truck, even
in very nasty weather. I canremeber him coming out of the field with a
loaded truck leaving three tracks - two for the tires and a third where the
differential pumpkin was dragging in the mud. He almost never got stuck.
These days you can stick most two wheel drive trucks on wet grass. My Father
claimes the problem is the tires. In the old days he always had narrow Farm
Burea bias ply mud tires on the rear. On the highway the tires made so much
racket you could hear the truck coming a mile away. Most modern trucks come
with wide all season radial tires. Out in my pasture, they will just sit on
top of the ground and spin. They don't cut down into the ground, they just
float on top. I suppose a two wheel drive truck with agressive mud tires
would do better, but then they are so noisy I wouldn't want to drive the
truck on the highway. I actually drive many more miles on the highway than
on mud, so having quiet, smooth riding tires is imprortant. With 4WD, these
sorts of tires can still handle the mud I have to deal with. I think the 4WD
costs me maybe 1 mpg. My Father's 9 year old Ranger has never had any
problems associated with the 4wd system. I don't expect to have any with the
Frontier.
> Most teens are hard on vehicles (when you are not
> looking), especially when they get one free.
Oh yeah and I have the repair bills to prove it.
Ed