what kind of non synthetic oil do you use in your 22-RE
pat
the truck used with about 140,000 miles. Since becoming the owner I have
been using castrol gtx in my truck with no problems. I have heard good
things about Mobile 1 oil, but have only been able to find it in a synthetic
version. I was told not to use synthetic oil in a vehicle with such high
mileage because it might cause leaks.
my question is this which is the best non synthetic oil to use in your toy.
TIA
Pooky
4Runner (the miles are under 60K) and in our 90 Prism(corolla) which had
210K miles at last look. We've used it in all our vehicles for the last
seven years at least, and haven't had a single complaint. As far as oil
filters go, we've stuck with Fram.
We've not gone with synthetics because they are more expensive, and you
can't go back to real oil without a lot of trouble. BUT, my folks have a 92
Escort wagon with 300K miles on it, and have used synthetics in it since
they bought it new. The fake oil is probably the only reason that car has
held up to their driving and maintenance habits. (And no sludge either.)
--
~Pooky~
Put the cat out to reply by e-mail. ;^)
pat <budah...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:1_sC6.4262$tv1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
will
all with 22r/22re engines.
"pat" <budah...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:1_sC6.4262$tv1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Troy (Formerly Troy The Troll)
> We've not gone with synthetics because they are more expensive, and you
> can't go back to real oil without a lot of trouble.
I've used synthetics and non-synthetics in the same vehicle, switching with
abandon, for years without problems. Synthetics will find any bad gaskets
that non-synthetics won't, but if you have an oil tight engine you can mix
the two types of oils, switch them at oil changes, whatever.
Anthony Maw
4Runner 22RE for years now without problems.
As far as I can tell if the oil is rated to API SH or later it's got all the
lubricating properties to meet the factory spec. for lubricity, anti-wear,
acid neutralization, etc. etc.
Of course the more advanced (and expensive) engine oil formulas will exceed
the API minimum specs but that's up to you whether you think it's worth the
extra cost.
The important thing is to change the oil regularly because it breaks down
and picks up all kinds of junk and chemical contaminants and water.
To me it makes more sense to change the oil regularly than to use synthetic
oil and change it somewhat less regularly.
Regards.
"pat" <budah...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:1_sC6.4262$tv1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
sch...@nohotmailspam.com
Choose an oil with a viscosity index of >150, a flash point of >400, a pour
index <= -40, ash content <= 0.9, and zinc content <-.12
In the non-synthetics this leaves only Havoline Formula 3. The Castrol is
okay, but the pour point is a bit low if you live in a cold area.
See the chart at: http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-overview.html
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seapotato
people who put in cheap castrol or quakerstate oils and have a wee
problem. they work great, but when the engine overheats the oil foams
and ceases to function as oil. a brief overheat turns into zero oil
pressure, scored big end bearings and generally a completely fooked
engine.
a theory the mechanic at work done some reading on is that they put
detergents into the oil, and then skimp on the anti foaming agents. this
is especially true for diesels where an oils detergent action is
something to be desired. other theories involved the molecules of the
oil, some having round(good, like ballbearings) multigrade having the
round and also flat and you name it jumbled in there which if you think
about it, how the hell is that supposed to reduce friction? so basically
multigrade is something you might put in a rental car, and any oil
available in a supermarket has to be a little suspect.
personally , I always use esso xd3 30weight. a straight 30 weight oil
that gets put into every engine that comes in for service. be it 4 cyl
gas,v8, or monster diesel.
thin oil is great for the arctic, it doesn't get that cold here.
but on the other side of it, I used to have a bug, and put whatever
crap oil into it that was cheapest. it rarely had the tach below 5000
and those engines don't have oil filters! ran the same the day I sold it
as it did the day I bought it. (much abuse inbetween)
cheers,
ryan
Troy (Formerly Troy The Troll)
> >
> >The important thing is to change the oil regularly because it breaks down
> >and picks up all kinds of junk and chemical contaminants and water.
>
> That is true of junk oil and if you change it at 1000 mi. when the
> additives are gone, you can get vary long engine life over 200.000 mi.
Junk oil? Assuming your talking about dino juice, if the additive packages
really wore out after only 1000 miles, why wouldn't everybody be wanting you
to change it every 1000 miles? And I have gone more then 200,000 miles on
combinations of junk oil and Fram filters.
> This helps to keep the demand high for oil and gives you high fuel
> prices..............
Now this I find hysterical. High demand for oil because everyone is running
around changing theirs? I doubt it.
>.Stop supporting oil companies and high fuel
> prices............You don't need them for anything but fuel......
> >
Really? And don't those same oil companies make motor oil? Or are you
espousing us all using WD-40 or something to keep our motors happy?
> >To me it makes more sense to change the oil regularly than to use
synthetic
> >oil and change it somewhat less regularly.
>
I change my synthetics at the same intervals I change my regular dino juice.
> That certainly makes sense if you own stock in the oil Co's....
>
Or are in the energy extraction business.
Chris Phillipo
seapotato wrote:
> something to think about, at the boatyard where I work we often see
> people who put in cheap castrol or quakerstate oils and have a wee
> problem. they work great, but when the engine overheats the oil foams
> and ceases to function as oil. a brief overheat turns into zero oil
> pressure, scored big end bearings and generally a completely fooked
> engine.
Overheating ruins oil, period. Always change your oil if your engine overheats.
--
_______________________________
Remove "X" from email to reply.
seapotato
you can get home with the thing without ruining it. which to me would
be the difference between good oil and bad. those poor buggers I
referred to had no choice but to limp back to the dock after they'd
fixed the coolant problem.
that would be great , to split a pipe out in the woods and overheat,
and have to change the oil on the spot to get home? I'd like to think
that a good oil could protect you from that sort of thing.
Troy (Formerly Troy The Troll)
"The Last Church" <d...@sierra.net> wrote in message
news:s87qdt805oqmrn1oo...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 01:40:42 GMT, "Troy \(Formerly Troy The Troll\)"
> <f4...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >I change my synthetics at the same intervals I change my regular dino
juice.
>
> before you need to I don't care. I have run oil analysis every 3000
> miles to check the condition of the oil and engine and extended drain
> intervals are way short of what you can really do. I have ran up to
> 50,000 mi with no degrade in quality of oil.
Now I'm betting this is a lie. Every scientific test I've ever seen has the
viscosity of oil changing after use. The SAE when they do their
certification tests measure the CHANGE in viscosity, which means it is a
given that the change will happen. So whatever "analysis" you claim to do it
faulty. Which means your 50,000 mile no degradation is bull as well. If
nothing else, the by-products of combustion become a part of the oil, and I
don't know about you, but last I looked my chemistry courses said
hydrochloric acid sitting around in my crankcase is a BAD thing.
But then that is with a
> Amsoil and I don't know what brand you are using.
>
Something better then Amsoil.
will
Troy (Formerly Troy The Troll)
"will" <wil...@yahoo.no.spam.com> wrote in message
news:N2mD6.1961$OL3.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> what is better than amsoil ?
>
Most anything synthetic last I looked. Amsoil has to be one of the better
organizations for marketing a product, but they don't have a product thats
better then say Mobil 1 synthetic right off the shelf. Matter of fact, I'll
bet Mobil 1 synthetic right off the shelf is the best you can get, for using
in your automobile anyway.
Troy (Formerly Troy The Troll)
this ad for Amsoil, which isn't necessarily any different from Mobil 1
synthetic in its physical properties, have to do with anything? For example,
I didn't notice Amsoil passing the GM 4718 Certification. does this mean
Amsoil sucks? no. Doesn't mean its any good either.
> > I'd like to think
> >that a good oil could protect you from that sort of thing.
> >
>
> DIESEL AND MARINE
> MOTOR OIL
> SAE 15W-40
> Custom-Blended For Outstanding
> Performance In Today's Engines
> PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
> AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor
> Oil combines the superior lubricity and performance capa-bilities
> of a premium synthetic lubricant with special rust
> and corrosion inhibitors. AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy-Duty
> Diesel and Marine Motor Oil is recommended for engines
> used in marine applications, as well as diesel engines
> used in trucks, fleets, mining, earth moving, construction
> and farm equipment. Other applications include taxi and
> local delivery fleets with gasoline or diesel engines. With its
> extended drain intervals, AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy-Duty
> Diesel and Marine Motor Oil reduces maintenance
> costs, downtime and the cost of waste oil disposal.
> Provides High Shear Stability
> AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor
> Oil surpasses the European ACEA and North American
> SAE oil specifications for high temperature/high shear
> (HTHS) viscosity. It is significantly more shear stable than
> conventional motor oils, retaining its viscosity at tempera-tures
> and loads that break down conventional oils. AMSOIL
> Synthetic Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil maintains
> an extremely protective viscosity of greater than 3.7 cP at
> 302°F (150°C) in the ASTM D-4683 High Temperature/High
> Shear Test, exceeding the test limits.
> Prevents Rust and Corrosion
> AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor
> Oil contains special rust and corrosion-inhibiting additives
> to prevent the rusting or corrosion of iron, copper, lead and
> aluminum materials.
> Improves Fuel Economy
> The premium quality synthetic base stocks in AMSOIL
> Synthetic Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil
> provide a tough lubricating film on all engine parts,
> reducing friction and fuel consumption. Reduced fuel con-sumption
> reduces exhaust emissions of carbon dioxide,
> water and particulates.
> Resists Oxidation - Reduces Engine Wear
> Conventional oils oxidize at high temperatures, causing
> sludge and deposit build-up that decrease fuel efficiency
> and contribute to corrosion and increased engine wear.
> AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor
> Oil, with a flash point of 442°F (228°C), resists oxidation
> and thermal breakdown far better than conventional oils.
> It continues to provide maximum protection at tempera-tures
> that oxidize conventional oils. Also, the advanced
> heat transfer capabilities and high lubricity of AMSOIL
> Synthetic Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil helps
> engines run cooler and reduces wear.
> Extended Drain Intervals
> AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor
> Oil is formulated for extended drain intervals. Its unique syn-thetic
> formulation, improved detergent/dispersant capabilities,
> and long drain additive package ensure maximum engine
> protection, cleanliness and performance over extended drain
> periods. Its advanced 12 TBN formulation keeps engines in
> superb condition even when the oil is used for extended
> drain intervals.
> Provides Low Temperature Protection
> AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor
> Oil remains fluid at temperatures as low as -47°F (-44°C).
> It circulates rapidly to provide vital lubrication and prevent
> engine wear caused by lack of oil flow. AMSOIL Synthetic
> Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil allows quicker,
> easier cold temperature starting with less engine wear.
> Reduces Oil Consumption and Emissions
> AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor
> Oil far exceeds the NOACK Volatility Test. Many conventional
> lubricants cannot pass this requirement. Low volatility means
> less oil vapor passing into the combustion chamber. A reduc-tion
> of oil vapor means lower oil consumption and lower
> exhaust emissions. The high detergent alkalinity of AMSOIL
> Synthetic Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil also
> helps reduce oil consumption.
> . API Engine Service CH-4, CG-4, CF-2, CF, SH, SJ
> . MIL-PRF-2104G, . MIL-L-21260D*
> . Caterpillar TO-2, TO-3 . Allison C-3, C-4
> . Mack EO-L, EO-L+, EO-M, EO-M+ . M.A.N. 271
> . Mercedes-Benz AG 227.1, 228.1, 228.3
> . Scania Long Drain . Volvo VDS, VDS-2
> . VW 505.00 . Cummins CES 20071, 20072, 20076
> . MTU . EMA LRG1
> *Rust Protection and Acid Neutralization Test
> "The First in Synthetics"
>
> TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
> AMSOIL Synthetic SAE 15W-40 Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil
> (AME)
> Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cST ..........................15.0
> (ASTM D-445)
> Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cST ............................91.2
> (ASTM D-445)
> Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270).................................172
> CCS Viscosity @ -15°C, cP (ASTM D-2602) ...........2350
> Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97) ........................-44 (-47)
> Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92) .....................228 (442)
> Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172B: 40 kg, 75......... ... .... ..
> A preacher is the blind
> leading the blind...
>
> The Last Church
> http://www.thelastchurch.org
> mic...@thelastchurch.org
hkr...@capuantispam.net
I saw six quarts of Mobil 1 for around $21 today at COSTCO. Is that a
reasonable price?
--
Harry Krause
------------
I don't know whether I'm going to win or not. I think I am. I do know I'm
ready
for the job. And, if not, that's just the way it goes. -GW Bush
Troy (Formerly Troy The Troll)
> >
> > Most anything synthetic last I looked. Amsoil has to be one of the
better
> > organizations for marketing a product, but they don't have a product
thats
> > better then say Mobil 1 synthetic right off the shelf. Matter of fact,
I'll
> > bet Mobil 1 synthetic right off the shelf is the best you can get, for
using
> > in your automobile anyway.
>
> I saw six quarts of Mobil 1 for around $21 today at COSTCO. Is that a
> reasonable price?
>
I'd say so. Its usually about $4.5/Qt here in Denver, so 6 quarts is $27.
Whenever I find the 5-Quart jug for $18 at WalMart I snap up as many as I
can find.
Hu
first oil change on.......I ran Castrol Syntec in a 1992 that had 175,000 miles
on it, but a very clean engine.....ran that for 20k before selling the truck,
no leaks, and no burning...ran very smoothly....the synthetics won't cause
leaks, but they will leak more easily from pre-existing leaks, and will burn
more easily.....
Hu
Troy (Formerly Troy The Troll)
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:26:45 GMT, "Troy \(Formerly Troy The Troll\)"
> <f4...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >Now I'm betting this is a lie.
> >hydrochloric acid sitting around in my crankcase is a BAD thing.
>
> I would love to take about $500. of your money on the wager but
> There is no way to collect from you.
I haven't been "young" for quite some time. And you didn't answer the
question. Hydrochloric acid is a by-product of combustion. If you never
change the oil, you never lose the hydrochloric acid and over time, ever
larger quantities accumulate in the crankcase. Explain how Amsoil oil does
away with this particular fact?
>
>
> It is Quite common to run Amsoil 100.000 miles between oil
> changes, in a gas engine if, your running the by- pass filter.
> If you add oil analyses you can take it to over 250,000 with no
> problem.
>
Oil analysis in no way makes an oil "better", it simply allows you to see
what may or may not be happening to it. Currently, scientific evidence that
I am aware of says oil viscosity breaks down over time, combustion
by-products collect in the crankcase and themselves lead to oil degradation,
and no lubricating oil known to mankind maintains its properties over the
kind of mileage you are asserting.
> If you would like some links to educate yourself with e-mail
> me.
>
> Michael
>
>
Just post the links here. If they are somoething beyond the ad's which
you've posted in the past, I will definately update my notion of what motor
oil can and cannot do.
Chris Phillipo
The Last Church wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:26:45 GMT, "Troy \(Formerly Troy The Troll\)"
> <f4...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >Now I'm betting this is a lie.
> >t last I looked my chemistry courses said
> >hydrochloric acid sitting around in my crankcase is a BAD thing.
>
> Look friend... Your either to young or to dumb to talk with.
> I would love to take about $500. of your money on the wager but
> There is no way to collect from you.
>
> It is Quite common to run Amsoil 100.000 miles between oil
> changes, in a gas engine if, your running the by- pass filter.
> If you add oil analyses you can take it to over 250,000 with no
> problem.
>
> If you would like some links to educate yourself with e-mail
> me.
>
> Michael
>
> .
You are a funny guy, we sell that crap in our shop just for the gullible
types such as yourself, it's a great money maker, both because it's so
expensive and because the user needs a bottom end job later on when he
tries to do something as ludicrous as this.
Troy (Formerly Troy The Troll)
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 05:22:26 GMT, "Troy \(Formerly Troy The Troll\)"
> <f4...@home.com> wrote:
> > If you never
> >change the oil, you never lose the hydrochloric acid and over time, ever
> >larger quantities accumulate in the crankcase. Explain how Amsoil oil
does
> >away with this particular fact?
>
> oil. The additive package keeps it neutral for a short time 800
> miles. With Amsoil your not putting acid, sulfur,benzene or many
> other negative chem's in to start with.
Okay. Lets assume this is completely true. What additives does Amsoil use,
that apparently no one else does not, that neutralizes hydrochloric acid
over say 10,000 miles of build up? Hydrochloric acid is a by product of
combustion. The longer you run the engine...the more of this stuff is laying
around to collect in the crankcase. I might mention it is only one of
several nasty by products of combustion as well. Unless you add a
neutralizer to the engine oil, this acid will not leave unless you
physically remove the oil. So how does Amsoil oil prevent this acid from
doing bad things to the inside of my engine?
> >> It is Quite common to run Amsoil 100.000 miles between oil
> >> changes, in a gas engine if, your running the by- pass filter.
> >> If you add oil analyses you can take it to over 250,000 with no
> >> problem.
> >>
> >
> >Oil analysis in no way makes an oil "better", it simply allows you to see
> >what may or may not be happening to it.
>
> Duh... That's right. It tell you what is happening.
But thats not the implication of your statement. You imply that running oil
analysis allows the oil to go from a 100,000 mile drain interval to a
250,000 mile drain interval. I would assert that this is crap. The analysis
does not allow you to run the oil over 250,000 miles. It may convince YOU
that changing the oil is unnecessary, but again, I have never seen an oil
analysis that said the oil was A-Okey and lubricating as good as new after
100,000 miles in the crankcase anyway.
>
> >Currently, scientific evidence that
> >I am aware of says oil viscosity breaks down over time,
>
> Amsoil does not break down ever. It will get dirty but it NEVER
> breaks down. That is just one advantage to (good) synthetics.
Once again...lets assume thats true. The oil molecule itself will never
change, after being subjected to hot, cold, shear stress and multitudes of
other goodies. So what. The oil molecule itself is only half the battle.
Additives in the oil DO get used up...particularly maintaining the oils
viscosity. So once those additives are used up...your left with a single
viscosity weight oil molecule which...according to you...is now dirty. And
why would you allow this thing to happen to the oil inside your crankcase?
because under no circumstances is it actually GOOD for your engine.
>
> > no lubricating oil known to mankind maintains its properties over the
> >kind of mileage you are asserting.
>
> Wrong--- You are not aware of the truth...
Wrong. You are ignorant. I stand by my statement. Lubricating oil will not
retain its original viscosity because the additives in the oil, polymers and
other goodies, give it properties which the oil itself does not naturally
have. once those additives are used up, your left with a dirty base stock
oil of maybe 30weight, synthetic or otherwise.
> >> If you would like some links to educate yourself with e-mail
> >> me.
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Just post the links here. If they are somoething beyond the ad's which
> >you've posted in the past, I will definately update my notion of what
motor
> >oil can and cannot do.
>
> That is too much work. It is easy 'er to do with e-mail.
> You have my address.
>
> Michael
Fine. Immediately after I post this I will request the links. Then I can
post them for the group, so they to can be stunned by Amsoils oil amazing
properties.
Troy (Formerly Troy The Troll)
> >> oil. The additive package keeps it neutral for a short time 800
> >> miles. With Amsoil your not putting acid, sulfur,benzene or many
> >> other negative chem's in to start with.
> >
> >Okay. Lets assume this is completely true.
>
oil
> >analysis allows the oil to go from a 100,000 mile drain interval to a
> >250,000 mile drain interval.
>
> longer service than 100.000. You can safely get 100,000 miles with
> your eyes closed and if you look and inspect the oil it will go allot
> farther with no break down in oil.
>
This is incorrect. The single link you provided, to the Amsoil product
brochure, does not say the oil doesn't break down. As a matter of fact, the
specifications include numbers which show that the lubricating properties of
the oil DOES change over time. For example, at a given temperature, Amsoil
boils away. Included right there in the link you provided. Another quote
from the link is the phrase "superior shear stability". It does NOT say that
the oil, when subjected to shear, does not change, just that its stability
to shearing is supposedly "superior". No where does Amsoil provide proof of
this superiority, it simply states it. Similar to every DINO juice
manufacturer as well.
In another example of you not having read your own link, this paragraph came
up:
"AMSOIL Series 2000 20W-50 Synthetic Racing Oil contains powerful corrosion
preventives, detergents, dispersants and anti-foam agents to protect engines
from the harmful effects of water, acids, debris, deposit-forming materials
and air entrained oil."
Previously, you stated that Amsoil didn't need additives to counteract the
effects of harmful byproducts of combustion when Amsoil themselves tout
their additive package...again...just like every other oil manufacturer I've
ever seen. When these additives are used up.....guess what happens race
fans? Thats right.....no more viscosity stability and no more counter agents
for hydrochloric acid. Again, these all go against the 100,000 mile drain
interval. Unless Amsoil states somewhere in a link not provided that their
oil additive package can in fact last 100,000 miles. Again, it never said
this anywhere.
> > I would assert that this is crap.
>
> Assert anything you like but if you check the facts you will see you
> are mistaken.
>
I have checked your "facts". So far, they haven't backed up a single thing
you've said except this, AMSOIL says its better then other oils in a single
type of test. One. A single one. Nothing about better viscosity retention,
nothing about better breakdown characteristics then other oils....nada.
So....now that I've checked the facts, which contradict most of what you've
said, do you have any more "facts" you'd like to share or just endless
statements of how great Amsoil is? Something they don't even go out on a
limb to prove?
>
> > I have never seen an oil
> >analysis that said the oil was A-Okey and lubricating as good as new
after
> >100,000 miles in the crankcase anyway.
>
> Then you have never run synthetic or analysis on them.
> I have done so for 30 years. I know what I am talking about.
> I live in Nevada. There is a bookie in vegas that will hold bets.
> If you wish to make a wager I can cover up to $5000,00 any time you
> want to place the bet.
>
So.Living in Nevada makes you A) Smarter then average and B) Able to place
bets legally. Wow. I am stunned with the wonders of Nevada. Maybe someday
when I tire of the mountains of Colorado I'll move to Vegas when I can be
smart and place bets to. In the meantime, oil analysis or not, you have not
been able to show a single independant test of Amsoils lubricating
characteristics vs say Mobil 1 synthetic.
You really want me to beleive you run flashpoint tests on oil in some cars
crankcase just for the fun of seeing how it changes over 100,000 miles?
Thats so screwball I don't even know a NUTCASE who advocates it, let alone
the scientific types who actually test oils.
> How ever it would be much cheaper for you just to read up on
> synthetics. They have been around sense the 4 0's and every jet that
> goes over your head is running a formula from Amsoil.
>
Or Mobil. Like Amsoil invented it.
> >> Amsoil does not break down ever. It will get dirty but it NEVER
> >> breaks down. That is just one advantage to (good) synthetics.
> >
Then maybe you should tell Amsoil to update their web page to reflect this
NEVER breakdown. What do you think some of those tests, the results of which
were posted on your link, actually signify? How fast the oil breaks down and
changes characteristics in part. And then you turn around and say NEVER?
Amsoil doesn't even use that word, on the link YOU provided to THEIR
website. If they can't say NEVER, why do you?
> >. So once those additives are used up...your left with a single
> >viscosity weight oil molecule which..
>
> This is vary true of junk oils, only. If you put in a 10/30 at 800
> miles you have straight 10 weight...... They start with a 10 w and
> play with the additive until it pass the 30 w test. Then when it
> burns off you are left with the 10.
>
Actually, most are closer to a 30w to start, the additive package allows
them to act like 10w when cold. As the additives are used, the oil ends up
more like 15-28 over time. Sooner or later it settles closer to 25w then
10w.
> Amsoil, say, 20/50 is not a muli- weight oil at all. It is a
> straight 50/w that is so slick it qualifies as a 20 when cold.
Of course its a multi-weight. Go read your own Amsoil brochures.
>It is
> not a 20/w it never was and it never will be. But it is slick enough
> when cold to behave as a 20/ when it is cold... It is much used in
> Alaska for this reason but it is a straight 50/w oil.
Sure, I'll agree that synthetics are used where its cold. But you'll have to
explain why I shouldn't spend my money on synthetic Mobil1 rather then
something more expensive and with less quality.
>The same is
> true of all Amsoil 15/40 10/30 5/30 20/50 90/180 They are all
> straight/w oils
>
Then you should tell Amsoil to update their web page.
> >> Wrong--- You are not aware of the truth...
> >
> >Wrong. You are ignorant. I stand by my statement.
>
> Yes I am so ignorant as to want to wager $5000.00 any time you want to
> put your money where your mouth is. The bookie will determine the
> winner by scientific facts and not by you or I.
Hell....you can't even convince me its worth the bet yet. Worse yet, the
only information you've been able to provide is ADVERTISING. Geez....if
advertising is the only "facts" you've got may I suggest there is some ocean
front property in Arizona I could sell that you might be interested in?
Anthony Maw
I think there is no hydrochloric acid build up in engine oils because there
aren't any sources of chlorine. There are, however, organic acids from
partial combustion byproducts as well as small amounts of sulfuric acid from
trace sulfur in fuels (especially diesel). Also since phosphorus may be
present as ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl DithioPhosphate - an extreme pressure
anti-wear agent that chemically binds to metal surfaces) there may well be a
small amount of phosphoric acid. All engine oils contains chemical buffers
to neutralize these acids but eventually these buffers will be exhausted.
Detergents and dispersants in the additive package (which can make up to 20%
of the volume of motor oil) will become exhausted and they will no longer be
able to suspend or dissolve soot particles. Also there will be a certain
amount of water absorbed into the oil especially from cold starts when water
vapour condenses inside the cylinders. I think synthetic motor oils are no
exception to these factors.
It is true that refined dino juice will eventually lose it's viscosity
properties. The other guy is right that viscosity is the ONLY important
factor in lubrication properties because it is directly factored into the
equation for calculating film thickness between two moving metal surfaces.
Thus when viscosity is decreased, as when the oil molecules chains start to
break down, the film thinkness will decrease until there is metal to metal
contact. Hopefully this is where the ZDDP stuff (see above) kicks in but
that's no excuse not to change your oil! (IMHO: I think some of those
advertised oil additives contain an extra dose of ZDDP which explains how
they can run the engine without oil for a short while anyways.)
FYI: Synthetic oils are made starting with ethylene gas. They catalytically
join the gas molecules under controlled temperature and pressure conditions
to custom make uniform molecular chain lengths and this is why syntheic base
oil has such good properties compared to distilled dino juice which has a
wider range of molecular chain lengths as well as other chemical properties
that make dino juice susceptible to chemical attack and breakdown. Pretty
amazing what a little chemistry can do, eh?
P.S. I once worked as a lab tech at an engineering lab where I analyzed
filters, oil and grease samples from diesel, gas and gas turbine engines as
well as hydrualic fluids. I learned a lot from that experience.
Oh yeah I would like to mention that I only change my Yota 22 RE oil filter
every third oil change becuase my above experience shows me that worn-in
engines generate miniscule amounts of wear particles that are well within
the capacity of the oil filter to retain? Even though oil filters are
cheap, if ya wanna DO THE ENVIRONMENT A BIG FAVOR, change your oil filter
less frequently (unless your engine is self-destructing and stuffing your
oil filter with metal shavings)
Bottom line: Gotta change your oil regularly no matter what you use.
Regards, Anthony Maw
mailto:ant...@maw.bc.ca
"Troy (Formerly Troy The Troll)" <f4...@home.com> wrote in message
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