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Knocking noise from a front wheel - second gen Prius
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passerby
Dec 11, 2012, 2:08:01 PM12/11/12
to
Hi all,
The Prius is 2nd gen (2009) with 67K on it now.
I have this noise I'm having a hard time explaining to the mechanics at the
dealership, perhaps because it has started right after the latest service when
they rotated the tires and replaced the oil in the front differential.
I can describe it as a rather soft knocking sound that seems to be coming from
the passenger side from wheel, with the frequency of once per revolution (or
twice - it turned out to be very hard to drive, count and look at the
passenger side wheel at the same time :) - need a huge mirror for that!) .
Well, it starts soft but becomes harder and I can even feel it of the steering
wheel after long and highway speed drives.
I brought it down to the dealership and they claim they could not find or hear
anything but the tire and the wheel look OK (tires almost brand new - about 5K
on this set yet, balanced before first installed), brake pads and the disk
look fine and no foreign objects. So, they said, it's safe to drive and don't
worry too much.
My wish for this noise to go away didn't materialize and I think it's getting
worse. So, I decided to ask for suggestions in this esteemed group before
bringing it to the dealership again. What do you guys think it can be? If not
the wheel/brakes, could there be something in the suspension that can make
such noise? The timing it started is very suspicious - could they have screwed
something up in the front differential while changing the oil there? Else
could they have bumped the wheel against something while rotating the tires?
Any suggestion and comment you can offer will be most welcomed!
--
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http://www.motorsforum.com//prius/knocking-noise-from-a-front-wheel-second-gen-prius-11517-.htm
using MotorsForum's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface to
alt.autos.toyota.prius and other automotive groups
The Prius is 2nd gen (2009) with 67K on it now.
I have this noise I'm having a hard time explaining to the mechanics at the
dealership, perhaps because it has started right after the latest service when
they rotated the tires and replaced the oil in the front differential.
I can describe it as a rather soft knocking sound that seems to be coming from
the passenger side from wheel, with the frequency of once per revolution (or
twice - it turned out to be very hard to drive, count and look at the
passenger side wheel at the same time :) - need a huge mirror for that!) .
Well, it starts soft but becomes harder and I can even feel it of the steering
wheel after long and highway speed drives.
I brought it down to the dealership and they claim they could not find or hear
anything but the tire and the wheel look OK (tires almost brand new - about 5K
on this set yet, balanced before first installed), brake pads and the disk
look fine and no foreign objects. So, they said, it's safe to drive and don't
worry too much.
My wish for this noise to go away didn't materialize and I think it's getting
worse. So, I decided to ask for suggestions in this esteemed group before
bringing it to the dealership again. What do you guys think it can be? If not
the wheel/brakes, could there be something in the suspension that can make
such noise? The timing it started is very suspicious - could they have screwed
something up in the front differential while changing the oil there? Else
could they have bumped the wheel against something while rotating the tires?
Any suggestion and comment you can offer will be most welcomed!
--
posted from
http://www.motorsforum.com//prius/knocking-noise-from-a-front-wheel-second-gen-prius-11517-.htm
using MotorsForum's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface to
alt.autos.toyota.prius and other automotive groups
Le Forgeron
Dec 12, 2012, 2:27:26 PM12/12/12
to
Le 11/12/2012 20:08, passerby nous fit lire :
Once per revolution... hmmm... of the wheel or steering wheel ?
If the wheel itself:
Check the tire, every section of it, on the rolling band. You might have
a screw or bolt incased in the outer part of the tire. visual inspection
should be seconded with manual inspection: pass your hand softly on the
tire, all over the part that get in contact with the ground.
(afterwards, you're good to wash your hands). You should have to move
the car at least thrice if you do not remove the wheel. Use a mark on
the side of the wheel to ensure you do not look always at the same spot.
(For easier spot, turn the steering wheel full way if possible)
If the wheel itself:
Check the tire, every section of it, on the rolling band. You might have
a screw or bolt incased in the outer part of the tire. visual inspection
should be seconded with manual inspection: pass your hand softly on the
tire, all over the part that get in contact with the ground.
(afterwards, you're good to wash your hands). You should have to move
the car at least thrice if you do not remove the wheel. Use a mark on
the side of the wheel to ensure you do not look always at the same spot.
(For easier spot, turn the steering wheel full way if possible)
passerby
Dec 12, 2012, 4:08:01 PM12/12/12
to
replying to Le Forgeron , passerby wrote:
a difference - it only becomes obvious at about 15-20MPH and I've yet to find
a circle large enough to try that.
> If the wheel itself:
> Check the tire, every section of it, on the rolling band.
Thank you for your suggestion. I had it down at the dealership where they
claim they took it off and checked the tire. But come to think of it now: I
would rather check it again myself. They did say it's safe but I would feel
much better if I've seen it myself.
Despite it being synced with the wheel rotation (once per revolution), could
it still be something other than the tire?
Thanks!
--
> leforgeron wrote:
>
> Once per revolution... hmmm... of the wheel or steering wheel ?
The wheel, going straight. Actually, not sure if going in a circle would make
>
> Once per revolution... hmmm... of the wheel or steering wheel ?
a difference - it only becomes obvious at about 15-20MPH and I've yet to find
a circle large enough to try that.
> If the wheel itself:
> Check the tire, every section of it, on the rolling band.
claim they took it off and checked the tire. But come to think of it now: I
would rather check it again myself. They did say it's safe but I would feel
much better if I've seen it myself.
Despite it being synced with the wheel rotation (once per revolution), could
it still be something other than the tire?
Thanks!
--
Le Forgeron
Dec 12, 2012, 4:53:36 PM12/12/12
to
Le 12/12/2012 22:08, passerby nous fit lire :
symptom (1 clong per revolution). Turn out it was the ball bearing of
the wheel that was faulty (and expensive to replace) (might be due to a
chock of the wheel against a sidewalk). Check is harder: rotate the
wheel while it is off the ground (so the car must somehow be suspended
... the apparatus to change a wheel with the fifth wheel (if any) is not
secure enough, do not do that alone). Free rotation of the wheel made it
clear: clong every revolution.
Might be hard to perform on the front wheel (neutral N mode ?)
> replying to Le Forgeron , passerby wrote:
>> leforgeron wrote:
>>
>> Once per revolution... hmmm... of the wheel or steering wheel ?
>
> The wheel, going straight. Actually, not sure if going in a circle would
> make
> a difference - it only becomes obvious at about 15-20MPH and I've yet to
> find
> a circle large enough to try that.
>> If the wheel itself:
>> Check the tire, every section of it, on the rolling band.
>
> Thank you for your suggestion. I had it down at the dealership where they
> claim they took it off and checked the tire. But come to think of it now: I
> would rather check it again myself. They did say it's safe but I would feel
> much better if I've seen it myself.
>
>
> Despite it being synced with the wheel rotation (once per revolution),
> could
> it still be something other than the tire?
It could. On another car (not even a Toyota), I once met the same
>> leforgeron wrote:
>>
>> Once per revolution... hmmm... of the wheel or steering wheel ?
>
> The wheel, going straight. Actually, not sure if going in a circle would
> make
> a difference - it only becomes obvious at about 15-20MPH and I've yet to
> find
> a circle large enough to try that.
>> If the wheel itself:
>> Check the tire, every section of it, on the rolling band.
>
> Thank you for your suggestion. I had it down at the dealership where they
> claim they took it off and checked the tire. But come to think of it now: I
> would rather check it again myself. They did say it's safe but I would feel
> much better if I've seen it myself.
>
>
> Despite it being synced with the wheel rotation (once per revolution),
> could
> it still be something other than the tire?
symptom (1 clong per revolution). Turn out it was the ball bearing of
the wheel that was faulty (and expensive to replace) (might be due to a
chock of the wheel against a sidewalk). Check is harder: rotate the
wheel while it is off the ground (so the car must somehow be suspended
... the apparatus to change a wheel with the fifth wheel (if any) is not
secure enough, do not do that alone). Free rotation of the wheel made it
clear: clong every revolution.
Might be hard to perform on the front wheel (neutral N mode ?)
Message has been deleted
passerby
Dec 12, 2012, 11:08:02 PM12/12/12
to
replying to Elmo P. Shagnasty , passerby wrote:
> elmop wrote:
>
> This isn't it because it wouldn't necessarily be synchronized with the
> wheel rotation on a 1:1 basis, but a buddy of mine wrestled with a
> knocking noise that turned out to be a screwdriver left inside his
> tire.
>
Oh, boy! This sounds like one of those horror stories about a surgeon leaving
a scalpel inside a patient's body ...
I now think I should definitely take L.F.'s advice and rotate the wheel while
suspended and on neutral, all the while keeping your story in mind, too.
When I brought it into the dealership last time, I was mostly concerned about
break pads - had a pebble lodge itself in there on a different vehicle that
also made weird sounds. They seem to have been going under the same assumption
and perhaps didn't look for much else.
As far as the bearing failing, it would seriously suck indeed. I'm so not
looking forward to an expensive repair. However, there's one observation that
perhaps supports the bearings theory: the knocks seem to become louder when
the car is climbing a hill. I can't come up with any explanation for that
which would include the wheel. The wheel is round - should make no difference
if the car's nose is slightly up.
> elmop wrote:
>
> This isn't it because it wouldn't necessarily be synchronized with the
> wheel rotation on a 1:1 basis, but a buddy of mine wrestled with a
> knocking noise that turned out to be a screwdriver left inside his
> tire.
>
Oh, boy! This sounds like one of those horror stories about a surgeon leaving
a scalpel inside a patient's body ...
I now think I should definitely take L.F.'s advice and rotate the wheel while
suspended and on neutral, all the while keeping your story in mind, too.
When I brought it into the dealership last time, I was mostly concerned about
break pads - had a pebble lodge itself in there on a different vehicle that
also made weird sounds. They seem to have been going under the same assumption
and perhaps didn't look for much else.
As far as the bearing failing, it would seriously suck indeed. I'm so not
looking forward to an expensive repair. However, there's one observation that
perhaps supports the bearings theory: the knocks seem to become louder when
the car is climbing a hill. I can't come up with any explanation for that
which would include the wheel. The wheel is round - should make no difference
if the car's nose is slightly up.
Michael N. LeVine
Dec 13, 2012, 8:51:24 AM12/13/12
to
In article <511bb$50c8f231$42bb6765$25...@news.flashnewsgroups.com>,
--
Michael LeVine - mle...@redshift.com
"I can remember when a liberal was one
who was generous with his own money"
Will Rogers
passerby <065b0505594b06f549...@example.com> wrote:
> replying to Le Forgeron , passerby wrote:
> > leforgeron wrote:
> >
> > Once per revolution... hmmm... of the wheel or steering wheel ?
>
> The wheel, going straight. Actually, not sure if going in a circle would make
> a difference - it only becomes obvious at about 15-20MPH and I've yet to find
> a circle large enough to try that.
>
> > If the wheel itself:
> > Check the tire, every section of it, on the rolling band.
>
> Thank you for your suggestion. I had it down at the dealership where they
> claim they took it off and checked the tire. But come to think of it now: I
> would rather check it again myself. They did say it's safe but I would feel
> much better if I've seen it myself.
>
>
> Despite it being synced with the wheel rotation (once per revolution), could
> it still be something other than the tire?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
Have you had the wheel bearings checked?
> replying to Le Forgeron , passerby wrote:
> > leforgeron wrote:
> >
> > Once per revolution... hmmm... of the wheel or steering wheel ?
>
> The wheel, going straight. Actually, not sure if going in a circle would make
> a difference - it only becomes obvious at about 15-20MPH and I've yet to find
> a circle large enough to try that.
>
> > If the wheel itself:
> > Check the tire, every section of it, on the rolling band.
>
> Thank you for your suggestion. I had it down at the dealership where they
> claim they took it off and checked the tire. But come to think of it now: I
> would rather check it again myself. They did say it's safe but I would feel
> much better if I've seen it myself.
>
>
> Despite it being synced with the wheel rotation (once per revolution), could
> it still be something other than the tire?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
--
Michael LeVine - mle...@redshift.com
"I can remember when a liberal was one
who was generous with his own money"
Will Rogers
News
Dec 13, 2012, 8:52:12 AM12/13/12
to
On 12/13/2012 8:51 AM, Michael N. LeVine wrote:
> In article <511bb$50c8f231$42bb6765$25...@news.flashnewsgroups.com>,
> passerby <065b0505594b06f549...@example.com> wrote:
>
>> replying to Le Forgeron , passerby wrote:
>>> leforgeron wrote:
>>>
>>> Once per revolution... hmmm... of the wheel or steering wheel ?
>>
>> The wheel, going straight. Actually, not sure if going in a circle would make
>> a difference - it only becomes obvious at about 15-20MPH and I've yet to find
>> a circle large enough to try that.
>>
>>> If the wheel itself:
>>> Check the tire, every section of it, on the rolling band.
>>
>> Thank you for your suggestion. I had it down at the dealership where they
>> claim they took it off and checked the tire. But come to think of it now: I
>> would rather check it again myself. They did say it's safe but I would feel
>> much better if I've seen it myself.
>>
>>
>> Despite it being synced with the wheel rotation (once per revolution), could
>> it still be something other than the tire?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>
> Have you had the wheel bearings checked?
>
Brake binding? Interference between rim and brakes or suspension?
> In article <511bb$50c8f231$42bb6765$25...@news.flashnewsgroups.com>,
> passerby <065b0505594b06f549...@example.com> wrote:
>
>> replying to Le Forgeron , passerby wrote:
>>> leforgeron wrote:
>>>
>>> Once per revolution... hmmm... of the wheel or steering wheel ?
>>
>> The wheel, going straight. Actually, not sure if going in a circle would make
>> a difference - it only becomes obvious at about 15-20MPH and I've yet to find
>> a circle large enough to try that.
>>
>>> If the wheel itself:
>>> Check the tire, every section of it, on the rolling band.
>>
>> Thank you for your suggestion. I had it down at the dealership where they
>> claim they took it off and checked the tire. But come to think of it now: I
>> would rather check it again myself. They did say it's safe but I would feel
>> much better if I've seen it myself.
>>
>>
>> Despite it being synced with the wheel rotation (once per revolution), could
>> it still be something other than the tire?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>
> Have you had the wheel bearings checked?
>
passerby
Dec 15, 2012, 3:08:01 PM12/15/12
to
neutral. Then did it with the other one just in case. *Nothing* at all out of
the ordinary. I mean, I don't look at Prius wheels every day, but there was
nothing embedded in the tire, no tears on the tire or the rubber gaskets, no
sign of any oil dripping, nothing obstructing the wheel or could possibly come
in contact with the wheel, nothing seems lose. I've taken pictures of both
wheel wells while they they suspended, just can't quite figure out how to post
them here.
And, no noise! Well, if you rotate them *very* slow, something in the
transmission appears to start biting and the wheel jerks while you're rotating
it. You can hear tiny "ticks" when you do that but not once per revolution,
more like 100 times per revolution. I think it's how CVT is working although I
cannot be sure.
Anyway, this time the car was cold while I was doing it, I'm going to try to
do it after driving it 20 miles later today. perhaps something will change
when it's warm.
So, I'm still looking for ideas. One that I was pondering myself: could the
wheel be unbalances so badly as to literally lift itself up and then down? The
noise seems to be rather soft and rubbery rather than metal on metal.
Thanks for your suggestions, guys, please keep them coming!
passerby
Dec 15, 2012, 6:08:01 PM12/15/12
to
replying to passerby, passerby wrote:
And so I lifted it again and turned the wheel when the car and the tires were
warm. Made no difference - I still cannot hear anything when turning by hand.
The noise was definitely there when I was driving it, so it looks like the
weight of the car is an important factor.
Would a faulty wheel bearing make the same noise when loaded as when it's not?
And so I lifted it again and turned the wheel when the car and the tires were
warm. Made no difference - I still cannot hear anything when turning by hand.
The noise was definitely there when I was driving it, so it looks like the
weight of the car is an important factor.
Would a faulty wheel bearing make the same noise when loaded as when it's not?
Message has been deleted
passerby
Dec 16, 2012, 12:08:01 AM12/16/12
to
replying to Elmo P. Shagnasty , passerby wrote:
> elmop wrote:
> That would be your dampers. How was the tread wear?
> elmop wrote:
>
The tires are almost brand new and the thread is still rather deep. So, if
there's wear that caused by this issue, it's really hard to see yet.
As far as dampers making the noise: I always thought dampers would make random
noises because of the road. And there's no hissing either. Well, as much as I
can tell - it's only apparent around 15-20MPH and it's already pretty noisy at
that speed.
Do you think it makes sense to have that wheel balanced again for just in case
and see what happens?
Thanks!
lvw
Dec 16, 2012, 10:54:15 AM12/16/12
to
On Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:08:01 PM UTC-5, passerby wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> The Prius is 2nd gen (2009) with 67K on it now.
>
>
>
> I have this noise I'm having a hard time explaining
A possibility that I think has not been mentioned: it's possible that you have a drive shaft joint going. A check for that is to drive in a tight circle for a round or two. Do that in both directions. If a joint is going, the problem will be a lot worse when turning sharply.
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> The Prius is 2nd gen (2009) with 67K on it now.
>
>
>
> I have this noise I'm having a hard time explaining
(I'd suspect a wheel bearing first, since you have checked the tires. However, worthwhile to check the driveshafts too.)
Larry Van Wormer
passerby
Dec 16, 2012, 6:08:02 PM12/16/12
to
replying to lvw , passerby wrote:
the knocking sound actually stops while in the circle, then restarts as soon
as I straighten the wheels. I did it in both directions, same thing. This
mystifies me even more, I have to admit. Still looks like more of a bearings
issue than anything else though - as the car shifts, there's perhaps more
pressure on a different side of the bearing?
Those driveshafts you've mentioned: interestingly, the one that goes to the
wheel I suspect is the source of the noise, is more rusted than the other one.
More rust=less oil? I mean, it's on the outside obviously and open to all
elements, so there should be some rust (and no oil), but I don't understand
why there's a visible difference in amount of rust between the two...
> lvw wrote:
>
> A possibility that I think has not been mentioned: it's possible that
> you h=
>
> A possibility that I think has not been mentioned: it's possible that
> ave a drive shaft joint going. A check for that is to drive in a tight
> circ=
> le for a round or two. Do that in both directions. If a joint is going,
> the=
> problem will be a lot worse when turning sharply.
>
> (I'd suspect a wheel bearing first, since you have checked the tires.
> However, worthwhile to check the driveshafts too.)
>
> Larry Van Wormer
>
Thank you for the suggestion, Larry. I tried a tight circle and it looks like
>
> (I'd suspect a wheel bearing first, since you have checked the tires.
> However, worthwhile to check the driveshafts too.)
>
> Larry Van Wormer
>
the knocking sound actually stops while in the circle, then restarts as soon
as I straighten the wheels. I did it in both directions, same thing. This
mystifies me even more, I have to admit. Still looks like more of a bearings
issue than anything else though - as the car shifts, there's perhaps more
pressure on a different side of the bearing?
Those driveshafts you've mentioned: interestingly, the one that goes to the
wheel I suspect is the source of the noise, is more rusted than the other one.
More rust=less oil? I mean, it's on the outside obviously and open to all
elements, so there should be some rust (and no oil), but I don't understand
why there's a visible difference in amount of rust between the two...
Daniel who wants to know
Dec 21, 2012, 9:12:35 PM12/21/12
to
> "passerby" wrote in message
> news:78904$50ccd8a1$42bb6765$13...@news.flashnewsgroups.com...
(MG1 and MG2) along with the slop in the PSD, final drive gears, and silent
chain.
Remember that the Prius does not actually have a CVT, they just called it an
E-CVT because it was the closest category to put it in.
http://prius.ecrostech.com/original/Understanding/PowerTrain.htm
> news:78904$50ccd8a1$42bb6765$13...@news.flashnewsgroups.com...
> Well, if you rotate them *very* slow, something in the
> transmission appears to start biting and the wheel jerks while you're
> rotating
> it. You can hear tiny "ticks" when you do that but not once per
> revolution,
> more like 100 times per revolution. I think it's how CVT is working
> although I
> cannot be sure.
That would be the cogging torque of the permanent magnet motor/generators
> transmission appears to start biting and the wheel jerks while you're
> rotating
> it. You can hear tiny "ticks" when you do that but not once per
> revolution,
> more like 100 times per revolution. I think it's how CVT is working
> although I
> cannot be sure.
(MG1 and MG2) along with the slop in the PSD, final drive gears, and silent
chain.
Remember that the Prius does not actually have a CVT, they just called it an
E-CVT because it was the closest category to put it in.
http://prius.ecrostech.com/original/Understanding/PowerTrain.htm
passerby
Dec 22, 2012, 4:18:01 PM12/22/12
to
replying to passerby, passerby wrote:
> passerby wrote:
>
> Those driveshafts you've mentioned: interestingly, the one that goes to
> the
> wheel I suspect is the source of the noise, is more rusted than the
> other one.
> More rust=less oil? I mean, it's on the outside obviously and open to
> all
> elements, so there should be some rust (and no oil), but I don't
> understand why
> there's a visible difference in amount of rust between the two...
>
Turns out, I can post images here after all. So, this is what I meant: this
>
> Those driveshafts you've mentioned: interestingly, the one that goes to
> the
> wheel I suspect is the source of the noise, is more rusted than the
> other one.
> More rust=less oil? I mean, it's on the outside obviously and open to
> all
> elements, so there should be some rust (and no oil), but I don't
> understand why
> there's a visible difference in amount of rust between the two...
>
first picture is the driveshaft of the wheel that makes the noise (see the
rust where I circled it) - passenger side.
[IMG]http://www.motorsforum.com/img/2c[/IMG]
And the other one (driver side) is much more clean:
[IMG]http://www.motorsforum.com/img/2b[/IMG]
I don't know if it has any significance at all - I have it scheduled for a
dealership visit again next week, will post what they find.
Vlad
Jun 14, 2016, 11:18:01 AM6/14/16
to
replying to passerby, Vlad wrote:
Any luck figuring out what it was? Were you able to fix it? I am having the
same issue now.
--
posted from
http://www.motorsforum.com/prius/knocking-noise-from-a-front-wheel-second-gen-prius-11517-.htm
Any luck figuring out what it was? Were you able to fix it? I am having the
same issue now.
--
posted from
http://www.motorsforum.com/prius/knocking-noise-from-a-front-wheel-second-gen-prius-11517-.htm
passerby
Jun 15, 2016, 12:18:00 AM6/15/16
to
replying to Vlad, passerby wrote:
Yeah, I did figure it out. It was the damn tire all along. The dealership was
just being difficult and played dumb so they don't have to replace the tire.
So I took my business elsewhere. The tire eventually needed replacement
anyway. It got replaced and the noise went away.
Yeah, I did figure it out. It was the damn tire all along. The dealership was
just being difficult and played dumb so they don't have to replace the tire.
So I took my business elsewhere. The tire eventually needed replacement
anyway. It got replaced and the noise went away.
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