07 Toyota manuals say 1.1qt oil burn/600 miles normal?
john...@hotmail.com
burn per 600 miles can be considered normal. Is it the case?
If so I would think it's excessive. It used to be that 1 qt per 3000
miles was the "acceptable" rule. Many of the newer Toyota/Lexus 3.5L
V6 engines have excessive piston-bore clearances they piston-slap when
cold, so I wouldn't be surprised of higher oil burn rates in some of
these (I4/V6) engines, but 1.1qt/600 miles???
I guess they don't build them like they used to.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0c40d0/0
"My dealer could not tell me for sure the brand of oil to use--and,
since it could use up to 1.1 qt/600 miles, thought I ought to have an
extra quart along--so is the oil that comes from the factory the same
as the regular 5W 30 that the dealer would use to do an oil change? "
Mark A
news:84e0e56a-69df-40a3...@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
It should not use that much oil. Maybe when the engine is brand new, it
might use a little oil, but after a few thousand miles that should stop. But
if the engine was not broken in properly, then all bets are off.
I have a 1998 Camry V6, and I have never added a drop of oil in-between 5000
mile oil changes (and never needed to).
I don't know for certain, but I thought the newer engines used 5W-20 or
something like that. Don't EVER pay any attention to what your dealer says
about this, because they just want to stock a few viscosities that they can
use for any model year.
larry moe 'n curly
johngd...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Some owners of 2007 Camrys posted that their manuals say 1.1 qt of oil
> burn per 600 miles can be considered normal. Is it the case?
It's less than the qt. per 700 miles allowed in Arizona. Back in the
1980s or early 1990s, the AZ attorney general and maybe some other
state AGs forced Ford to raise its standard from a qt. per 400 miles
to one per 700 miles.
ransley
I find it impossible to believe a car manual would state oil
consumption issues in qts, or any one would state 1.1qt every 600 is
acceptable. It will ruin the converters in maybe 10000 miles like
that, be in excess of all polution laws, fail all polution tests. In
illinois it would not be lisenceable. GM gives out a free motor at 1qt
+ in 1000 miles. 1.1 qt in 600 is a true polluting junker. I find this
kinda hard to believe. Its almost 2 quarts in 1000 miles , just think
of the smoke.
john...@hotmail.com
2.4L) are having problems all of a sudden, when prior to that the
engine used no oil. So I Goggled a bit and found this 1.1qt/600
miles!!
Ouch.
Tomes
=====================
I agree for the same reasons. I am thinking that this is just blowing
smoke...
Tomes
ransley
>
> - Show quoted text -
My 91 might use 1 qt in 3-5000 miles. My folks had a caddy that used
0.9 qt in 1000 and GM said if its 1 qt in 1000 they would replace it
free. 1.1 qt in 600 for break in ok. If this is true expext a recall I
cant see it passing any test and it will ruin a cat converter very
fast, that is just to much oil. But I have never seen a manual stating
an amount of oil burned per miles. It might be dealer bs. New motors
just dont burn oil like they did 20-30 years ago.
Jeff
> <johngd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Let's listen to someone on the internet instead. After all, what do
the engine manufacturers know about engines? They only designed them.
The engine makers know the engines inside and out. Over the last few
years, the metals, oils and manufacturing processes have changed so
that today's engines require different oils than previous engines.
Jeff
Mark A
news:e6262ed4-7d27-4aab...@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> Let's listen to someone on the internet instead. After all, what do
> the engine manufacturers know about engines? They only designed them.
>
> The engine makers know the engines inside and out. Over the last few
> years, the metals, oils and manufacturing processes have changed so
> that today's engines require different oils than previous engines.
>
> Jeff
I said ignore what the dealer says, not ignore what the manufacturer says.
The recommended oil viscosity is usually listed right on the oil filler cap,
and I would wholeheartedly recommend following the manufacturer's
instructions. Unfortunately, a lot people on the internet cannot read very
well.
Sadly, many dealers use a different viscosity than recommended by the
manufacturer since they don't want stock every viscosity for all the cars
they service, so they typically use one or two viscosities for everything to
the extent possible. The pay a lot less for the bulk oil in barrels than
they do for the 1 quart cans, and they don't have a lot of different oils by
the barrel. Since consumers assume that the dealer will use the correct oil
viscosity as recommended by the manufacturer, the dealers usually don't get
much scrutiny from consumers (or people on the internet) as to what they are
putting in the crankcase.
mikewestvale
> "Jeff" <jeff....@gmail.com> wrote in message
My 99 Camry 6 burns 0 oil in 5000 km and I change at that time. If a
new one burns oil at that rate I will be seeking another brand of
vehicle when this one is to be replaced. It runs as good as the day I
got and is still quiet and has lots of power for eastern seaboard
hills/mountains.
JoeSpareBedroom
news:84e0e56a-69df-40a3...@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
This is absurd. Are these people reporting their actual experiences? Or, are
they reporting what someone told them might happen?
With the following Toyotas with which I've had direct experience, I owned
the same quart of oil at 100K miles that I bought on the day the cars were
new. There was still oil in the bottles.
1988 Corolla wagon, 4 cyl
1982 Tercel 4 cyl
1996 Camry wagon 6 cyl
My 2004 Tacoma 6 cyl has 76K miles and the original quart of oil is half
full. I'll probably dump it at the mechanic's at the next oil change because
the bottle's looking like it's battered enough to leak. None of these
vehicles used/uses a significant amount of oil.
hibb
I must be the one holding the average down. I get my 2004 Camry's oil
changed at about 12,000 miles and sometimes up to as much as 15,000
miles. I must be getting great Oil Mileage or I'm driving about 10,000
miles without any oil left in the crank case between every change.
I've never checked it so I don't know and the oil change guy has never
mentioned anything.
No matter. It has over 155,000 miles on it and no problems. Well,
there actually is a problem with the windshield washer fluid motor. I
don't think the two situations are connected tho.
David
Ed White
Ray O
> burn per 600 miles can be considered normal. Is it the case?
That is an owner's manual CYA.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
Fat Moe
Oils now have to be formulated to keep the emissions low over the life
of the car and provide less drag so higher fuel mileage can be achieved.
I had a 85 Toyota that had valve seal problems and the catalytic
converter was still working fine at 140K miles when I sold it.
It would lay a smoke screen down if left idling as the oil collected
in the intake manifold. I don't think it used a quart in 2K miles.
I once bought a 66 chev that used a qt. every 50 miles, and I remember
a certain 71 chev that used a qt every hundred. I'd buy cheap oil by
the case and keep it in the trunk until I overhauled the engines. The
good old days. Used to be able to overhaul those engines for a hundred
bucks, two hundred for a super duper overhaul if the car was a keeper.
The other day I was in a second hand store and there was a set of the
old Delco externally adjustable points. That brought back a lot of
memories.
Anyway a qt. per thousand miles isn't excessive and I'd go so far as
to say an engine using that might last longer then a tight engine with
very close tolerances. Think about it, and engine using 1qt/1K miles
gets fresh oil with new additives more often.
ransley
>
> - Show quoted text -
12-15000 mile oil changes, your motor is full of sludge ready to
croak, you never check your oil, what a joke you are. But I bet you
keep it clean on the outside.
ransley
>
> - Show quoted text -
He is talking near 2 quarts in 1000 miles.
Retired VIP
Hi Ed,
That's good info and I liked the links but I do have one problem with
your assumptions. I used to drive a lot in my job, it wasn't my
primary job function but I had to get to where I'd be working. I
would very rarely start my truck and only drive 5 or 6 miles, most
time it was over 25 miles. And a lot of times I'd drive for around 3
hours before I shut it down, then another 1.5 to 2 hours home.
I have only driven one truck that needed oil added between 4,000 -
6,000 mile changes. That was an '87 Ford Bronco with a rear seal
leaking, the company didn't want to spend the money to replace it.
While almost all of them would be between 1/4 to 1/2 qt low at the oil
change, the oil consumption didn't change over the +/-100,000 miles
I'd drive before the company replaced the trucks. These were all
either Ford or Chevy trucks and ranged from 3/4 ton pickups to full
size Broncos and Blazers. All of them were 4wd.
I don't think the consumed oil was being replaced by 'stuff', I think
the true oil consumption was much lower than your figures would
indicate as normal. As I understand it, the purpose of the oil ring
isn't to dry the cylinder wall just wipe off the excess and an oil
layer only 1 molecule thick wouldn't be able to do much lubricating or
sealing. I think that most oil consumption isn't the result of
burning the oil left on the cylinder walls, it's the result of leaking
valve seals and defective PVC valves. If the oil coating on the
cylinder walls was being burnt off that would result in the rings
being dragged across dry cylinder walls on the exhaust stroke and very
high wear rates.
Jack j
SMS
> Some owners of 2007 Camrys posted that their manuals say 1.1 qt of oil
> burn per 600 miles can be considered normal. Is it the case?
>
> If so I would think it's excessive. It used to be that 1 qt per 3000
> miles was the "acceptable" rule. Many of the newer Toyota/Lexus 3.5L
> V6 engines have excessive piston-bore clearances they piston-slap when
> cold, so I wouldn't be surprised of higher oil burn rates in some of
> these (I4/V6) engines, but 1.1qt/600 miles???
It's a CYA statement so they don't have to provide warranty coverage for
the few units that burn a lot of oil. "My car's burning oil." "Oh, check
your manual, that's _normal_."
SMS
> Sadly, many dealers use a different viscosity than recommended by the
> manufacturer since they don't want stock every viscosity for all the cars
> they service,
Yeah, that's what I found the dealer closest to me doing. They didn't
hide it either, it was on the printed receipt. I had them do it over
with bottled oil. If it were the summer I wouldn't have cared, since
10W30 would have been fine, actually a little better than 5W30, but for
the sub-zero temperatures in the winter I wanted the specified 5W30.
I haven't been back to that dealer for service since then. Or to the
dealer that tried to sell me the Bilstein Wallet Flush when the vehicle
had only about 20,000 miles on it. Doing the change myself is the only
way to ensure that it's done properly.
Daniel
> Mark A wrote:
Doing the change myself is the only
> way to ensure that it's done properly.
Through the years I've learned that is true for most repairs.
Seems someone paid to work on your car earning more based upon how
quickly they can complete the task, is not the same as an informed
owner, taking their time, following the factory specifications and
manual, and taking the extra care to do the small things right.
Almost ivariably, every time someone else works on my car I find
something not quite right - sometimes way off, like the tire shop
mechanic that left the cotter pin off the ball joint - that proved
very interesting couple thousand miles later.
JoeSpareBedroom
news:8fff4b31-72c8-4001...@s24g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
If you take your vehicle to places that are notorious for hiring lesser
mechanics (like tire shops), you have no business complaining when you get
what's expected. There are plenty of very competent mechanics to be found.
But, based on my experience, they're not on high-rent main drags. Their
businesses don't always have big flashy signs. The probably don't advertise,
or need to, because they get customers via word of mouth.
I've been using the same shop for about 20 years, with 4 cars. They've made
one minor mistake in all that time: I wanted a part replaced, and they
argued that it wasn't necessary. It resulted in a minor but annoying oil
leak. They fixed it for free, which cost them a few hours of time. All their
other work has been competent to the point of obsessive.
If I still enjoyed working on my own vehicle, I'd do it. But that would be
the only reason, especially since it's winter here for 6 months out of the
year. The vehicle doesn't stop asking for service during those months, and
I'm not crazy enough to try changing my oil when it's 15 degrees outside.
Mark A
news:%NL8l.16135$Ws1....@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
> It's a CYA statement so they don't have to provide warranty coverage for
> the few units that burn a lot of oil. "My car's burning oil." "Oh, check
> your manual, that's _normal_."
You plagiarized that from Ray O.
Mark A
> Doing the change myself is the only way to ensure that it's done properly.
I usually take my car to a oil change place where I can watch what they are
doing. The smaller chains with independent franchise owners are much better
than the ones owned by the oil companies.
The fact that I specify Mobil 1 also helps me know exactly what they are
doing, since I have only found one place that ever claimed to have it in a
large barrel. All the others only have Mobil 1 in 1 qt bottles. I always get
nervous when oil is coming out of one of those barrels or tanks (usually
overhead), since even though it has a label on it, I don't really know for
sure what is in it.
nm...@wt.net
> burn per 600 miles can be considered normal. Is it the case?
Myself, I wouldn't consider it normal. I'd be fairly concerned if I
went through oil that fast on that new of a car. This assumes
the engine is broke in, and not using excessive oil during the
break in period.
Heck, with my 1.8L, I never have to add any oil between my
5000 mile oil changes. And I drive enough longer trips that
condensation, or whatever buildup of liquid crud should not be
much of an issue. My car almost always gets fully warmed up
on most all trips. And I do 900 mile highway trips from time to
time. So if it were really burning oil at any great rate, seems like
I would see it. I don't think my level drops any more than halfway
to one quart down between 5k miles, and may not even be that
much.
I always use the recommended 5W-30. "Syntec synth blend"
So no, I can't say that I could consider that normal judging from
mine. They may try to weasel out of the warranty using specs
that say yours is within specs, but I would consider those specs
as a worst case scenario, and certainly not the norm.
An 07 Camry should not be guzzling a quart of oil every 600 miles.
nm...@wt.net
>
> I must be the one holding the average down. I get my 2004 Camry's oil
> changed at about 12,000 miles and sometimes up to as much as 15,000
> miles.
Hummm. You like living dangerously.. :/
Either that, or you secretly hate that car and want it to die so
you can get another. :)
You are a prime time candidate for the infamous toyota oil
gelling problem with that long oil change sked. :(
Mark A
news:c96ac204-65e6-412b...@r41g2000prr.googlegroups.com...
> Hummm. You like living dangerously.. :/
> Either that, or you secretly hate that car and want it to die so
> you can get another. :)
> You are a prime time candidate for the infamous toyota oil
> gelling problem with that long oil change sked. :(
Depends on what kind of oil he is using. A good quality synthetic is very
unlikely to gell at 12K miles.
Retired VIP
wrote:
If you don't trust the shop, go elsewhere. They say they have Mobil 1
in a barrel, maybe they do but if you don't believe them then go
somewhere else.
The same argument could be made about the plastic bottles. Unless you
open the bottle yourself, you really don't know it is a factory seal
or just the cap screwed back on a re-fill.
You have to trust the people you do business with or you're going to
be raising your own food, spinning your own thread, weaving your own
cloth and building your own cars.
Jack j
ransley
> <n...@wt.net> wrote in message
Maybe not gell but full of dirt,acid, and junk. It depends on how its
driven, drive 1 mile a day to the store at 32f and lower and in 2000
mobil 1 will be black. I know, thats how my parents drove and at 1200
miles the oil looked like mine at 5000. Did you ever smell old oil
with 10000 on it, it simply stinks. I bet he could get 5 gallons of
sludge out of his bucket mobile.
Sharx35
"ransley" <Mark_R...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93f954a2-5194-4fe8...@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
Ransley, for once I agree with you. Why ANYONE would cheap out on oil
changes when, dollar for dollar,
they are the best deal in town to increase engine longevity, is beyond my
comprehension.
SMS
No, I've been using that same kind of statement in posts about "normal"
oil burning claims for over ten years now.
April 22nd 1997: "But the oil burning rate has been defined by Saturn as
'normal' so they won't do warranty work to repair an engine that burns
oil within their definition of normal."
Mark A
news:fjk7m4pgf9s862l7a...@4ax.com...
> If you don't trust the shop, go elsewhere. They say they have Mobil 1
> in a barrel, maybe they do but if you don't believe them then go
> somewhere else.
>
> The same argument could be made about the plastic bottles. Unless you
> open the bottle yourself, you really don't know it is a factory seal
> or just the cap screwed back on a re-fill.
>
> You have to trust the people you do business with or you're going to
> be raising your own food, spinning your own thread, weaving your own
> cloth and building your own cars.
>
> Jack j
Loading some generic oil into an overhead tank is a lot easier than loading
fake oil into 1 Qt containers. When I get my oil changed, I am standing
close enough to know whether there is a factory seal on the 1 Qt bottle. I
also see whether the throw the empty bottles in the trash.and whether the
new bottles look dirty in any way.
hibb
Too many people are worrying too much about their oil. I didn't put
over 150k miles on this thing in four years by driving a mile a day. I
did the same thing with a 1998 Forrester and had no problems at all.
Traded it in at over 180k miles.
You folks that change your oil ever 3,000 miles are behind the times.
And you are making the Arabs and the other Oil tycoons happy by
driving up the price of oil for the rest of us.
Don't be cheap but don't waste your money either.
Now, how about brakes? I used to start getting worried about the
brakes at about 50k miles on a car. My last two cars went over 150k
before needing new brakes. And with the Forrester, it only need front
brakes and rotors. The rear brakes were still good. I just had the
Camry checked and the brake pads are only half worn at over 155k.
Don't worry, Be happy.
David
ransley
>
> - Show quoted text -
Paranoid, my friend got a new motor for free for his camry at about
35000 miles from sludge, he admitted he only did One oil change, 3000
miles if its warmed up fully is to short I agree. I was at my
mechanics and saw a 6 cil engine apart that was clogged and ruined at
60000, the mechanic said the guy changed the filters at 6000 and oil
at 15000. I bough an old chevy wagon that the guy assured me was
changed at 3000, well it was so crapped up all 5 quarts would go to
the heads and the oil light came on until I took off the heads and
used a paint scraper and coat hanger to unplug the holes, this was the
unstoppable Chevy 350. Here with down tp -20 and stop and go city
driving oils look real bad at 3-6000 and stink like crap at 9000. You
have a good motor design but take off the valve covers and you will be
shocked. If rear brakes last 155000 in city driving they are not
working the percentage load as designed, in city 80-100000 is normal
life.
mred
> <johngd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:84e0e56a-69df-40a3...@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Some owners of 2007 Camrys posted that their manuals say 1.1 qt of oil
> > burn per 600 miles can be considered normal. Is it the case?
>
> > If so I would think it's excessive. It used to be that 1 qt per 3000
> > miles was the "acceptable" rule. Many of the newer Toyota/Lexus 3.5L
> > V6 engines have excessive piston-bore clearances they piston-slap when
> > cold, so I wouldn't be surprised of higher oil burn rates in some of
> > these (I4/V6) engines, but 1.1qt/600 miles???
>
> > I guess they don't build them like they used to.
>
> >http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0c40d0/0
> > "My dealer could not tell me for sure the brand of oil to use--and,
> > since it could use up to 1.1 qt/600 miles, thought I ought to have an
> > extra quart along--so is the oil that comes from the factory the same
> > as the regular 5W 30 that the dealer would use to do an oil change? "
>
> might use a little oil, but after a few thousand miles that should stop. But
> if the engine was not broken in properly, then all bets are off.
>
> I have a 1998 Camry V6, and I have never added a drop of oil in-between 5000
> mile oil changes (and never needed to).
>
> I don't know for certain, but I thought the newer engines used 5W-20 or
> something like that. Don't EVER pay any attention to what your dealer says
> about this, because they just want to stock a few viscosities that they can
> use for any model year.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I also have a 2002 camry -4 and never add any oil between five
thousand mile changes and my driving is 50-50 highway -city.
I use Mobil1 yellow cap 15, 000 mile oil.
Ed
SMS
> Too many people are worrying too much about their oil.
Well some people don't understand that detergent motor oil is _supposed_
to turn dark as it suspends particulates. It doesn't mean that the oil
is worn out when it turns dark. Nor is the smell an indication of anything.
> You folks that change your oil ever 3,000 miles are behind the times.
Very, very, few people still do 3000 mile oil changes. 5000 to 7500 is
the norm. Yes, this is still probably too soon, but it's cheaper than an
oil analysis.
> And you are making the Arabs and the other Oil tycoons happy by
> driving up the price of oil for the rest of us.
True.
> Don't be cheap but don't waste your money either.
You gotta laugh when you hear the "3000 mile oil changes are cheap
insurance" line. Well how about going to 2000 mile or 1000 mile oil
changes to buy even more cheap insurance. There's just as much evidence
that 1000 mile oil changes are better than 5000 mile oil changes as
their as that 3000 mile oil changes are better than 5000 mile oil changes.
Steve Daniels
compelled SMS <scharf...@geemail.com>, to say:
> hibb wrote:
>
> > Too many people are worrying too much about their oil.
>
> Well some people don't understand that detergent motor oil is _supposed_
> to turn dark as it suspends particulates. It doesn't mean that the oil
> is worn out when it turns dark. Nor is the smell an indication of anything.
>
> > You folks that change your oil ever 3,000 miles are behind the times.
>
> Very, very, few people still do 3000 mile oil changes. 5000 to 7500 is
> the norm. Yes, this is still probably too soon, but it's cheaper than an
> oil analysis.
The service interval on my Audi is 10,000 miles. An oil change
is about seventy five bucks, which is less than using dino oil
and changing it every three thousand.
I am much pleased.
--
Real men don't text.
Retired VIP
wrote:
Damn man!! Do they kiss you when they get done?
Steve Daniels
compelled Retired VIP <jackj.ext...@windstream.net>, to
say:
It's Mobil One, which doesn't go for free, and a Genuine Audi Oil
Filter, made by enchanted elves in Ingolstadt. Plus, they check
the computer to see if is has thrown any codes, top up the washer
fluid, and give me a coupon for a car wash.
And, they have coffee and cakes in the waiting room, so you have
something upon which to nosh whilst seated upon the leather
couches. Upscale cars are nice, for lots of reasons. An
oil/filer change and a quick once over for seventy five bucks or
so every ten thousand miles doesn't seem all that expensive to
me.
Of course, there's a reason I'm driving an Audi in the first
place.
SMS
And fill the tires with air from Germany.
> And, they have coffee and cakes in the waiting room, so you have
> something upon which to nosh whilst seated upon the leather
> couches. Upscale cars are nice, for lots of reasons. An
> oil/filer change and a quick once over for seventy five bucks or
> so every ten thousand miles doesn't seem all that expensive to
> me.
True. If you went to Jiffy Lube at the interval Jiffy Lube suggests,
you'd spend more than $75.
Mark A
> There's just as much evidence that 1000 mile oil changes are better than
> 5000 mile oil changes as their as that 3000 mile oil changes are better
> than 5000 mile oil changes.
Can you please show us the evidence of that? I thought so.
Mark A
> True. If you went to Jiffy Lube at the interval Jiffy Lube suggests, you'd
> spend more than $75.
If you don't use synthetic, then it would be advisable to change the oil
more frequently than 10,000 intervals. Which is why synthetic oil is not
much more, or maybe actually cheaper, than conventional oil changes.
SMS
Who is "us"?
Re-read what I wrote. There is just as much evidence that 1000 mile oil
changes are better than 5000 mile oil changes as there is that 3000 mile
oil changes are better than 5000 mile oil changes. In other words there
is no evidence at all. Only marketing bull from the quick-lube industry.
If you want to claim that there is some advantage to 1000 or 3000 mile
oil changes over what the manufacturer recommends, then it's up to you
to present the evidence. And in this case it really is showing it to
"us," since apparently you're alone in believing the 3000 mile story. Of
course you'll never present any, because none exists, so don't spend too
much time on it.
mred
> "SMS" <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote in message
You have th e right idea but I go a bit further.
I supply my own Mobil 1yellow cap (15,000 mile oil)(bought at
Walmart , U.S.A.) and take it to my dealer and have them change it
every 5000 miles with a new dealer supplied filter.
The price for this service is $21.00 Canadian and change including
taxes.
I also have the wheels rotated and the total price for both services
is about $41.00
and change including taxes.(Canadian)
I used to do my own oil changes winter and summer but I`m too old now
to crawl under a car and have too much arthritis , so the charge is
minimal for every six months for an oil change
Ed
Mark A
> Who is "us"?
>
> Re-read what I wrote. There is just as much evidence that 1000 mile oil
> changes are better than 5000 mile oil changes as there is that 3000 mile
> oil changes are better than 5000 mile oil changes. In other words there is
> no evidence at all. Only marketing bull from the quick-lube industry.
>
> If you want to claim that there is some advantage to 1000 or 3000 mile oil
> changes over what the manufacturer recommends, then it's up to you to
> present the evidence. And in this case it really is showing it to "us,"
> since apparently you're alone in believing the 3000 mile story. Of course
> you'll never present any, because none exists, so don't spend too much
> time on it.
I am not advocating changing oil at 3000 mile intervals. In fact I did
advocate anything in my post. So I don't have to provide any proof of
anything. "You" spoke of evidence that supposedly exists, but you did not
produce it.