Sludge - how can I tell
Goldberg
a catastrophic failure and THEN find out.
Alan
If you cange your oil every 3500 miles, you don't need to even think about
it.
"Goldberg" <gold...@erinet.com> wrote in message
news:3cad17db$0$3111$2c3e...@news.voyager.net...
Daniel M. Dreifus
> a catastrophic failure and THEN find out.
Just change your oil before it gets dark colored.
By definition sludge occurs when contaminants can no longer be held in
suspension, so if your oil is clean you don't have sludge.
It never hurts to add extra oil and filter changes if needed, then
just check it periodically.
A lot of people say it is normal for oil to turn dark, just means it
is doing its job but with so many critical functions to perform I'm
more comfortable changing oil before it turns all dark as often as
required. Oil is relatively inexpensive.
Even with Mobil 1 synthetic, four quarts is about $20.
Check the inside of the oil filler cap. It should be clean.
Check the PCV valve hose. It should be clear. This is a rubber hose
that's reasonably easy to remove.
Just me personally, I would not trust Pennzoil. Many years ago, a
racing engine rebuilder told me Kendall was the best oil in his
experience and that Pennzoil had a paraffin base.
Be sure the engine is thoroughly warmed up before changing the oil. On
my 1977 Toyota pickup truck which still runs just fine, I used to take
it in for an oil change after long drives on the freeway. That way all
contaminants are held in suspension in the fully warmed circulating
motor oil, and drain out with the servicing.
I was becoming concerned about my Camry reading all the posting about
sludge here, but now I realize, that cold damp weather and short trips
with extended oil change intervals are responsible I don't worry too
much.
The oil used to get checked every time gasoline was added. Now I
suspect many people don't even know how to open the hood latch. When I
purchased my Camry from a private party, they didn't know.
I check the engine oil and tire pressure every Saturday morning and
also check the color of the coolant and brake fluid - easy because the
reservoirs are clear.
All of the fluids should be kept clean and up to the proper levels -
power steering fluid, automatic transmission fluid, brake fluid, and
engine oil. Units should be flushed if dirty, and then the fluids
changed regularly. It's more economical to change fluids than metal
components.
Even with the extra demands placed on engine oil today by
sophisticated and fuel efficient engines, the oil cannot sludge up if
it is clean, because sludge by definition results from contaminants
failing to be suspended in the motor oil.
Goldberg
changed oil every 3000 miles. I am curious how I can see if I have ALREADY
done damage. What should I look for.
"Daniel M. Dreifus" <nospam...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c5ef7dc0.02040...@posting.google.com...
Roger Zoul
"Goldberg" <gold...@erinet.com> wrote
> OK - OK - I understand how to AVOID IT. But I have been a BAD-BOY and not
> changed oil every 3000 miles. I am curious how I can see if I have
ALREADY
> done damage. What should I look for.
Check the oil on the stick....if it feels like gel or really thick, you
might have trouble.
Gary Danaher
and remove the wiring from the top of the valve cover, loosen the nuts at the
top of the plug shafts holding the cover in place and take the cover off. Only
takes a few minutes. No guesswork involved.
name
People took care of their cars and they HAVE sludged up engines. That's
why Toyota changed the designs. If the 2002 engine already incorporated
those changes, then Toyota anticipated it.
name
Bill G.
> OK - OK - I understand how to AVOID IT. But I have been a BAD-BOY and not
> changed oil every 3000 miles. I am curious how I can see if I have ALREADY
> done damage. What should I look for.
You know, I keep seeing "change it every 3000 miles". The Toyota Manual
itself says every 5000 miles is sufficient for "extreme" conditions, and 7500
miles for normal driving!
In all my years of vehical ownership, I have NEVER changed oil more often than
5000 miles. And I defy you to find an owners manual for any brand of vehical
that suggests a 3000 mile interval. I know Jiffy Lube and the like suggest
that - well duh? - they want your money.
Any engine that is damaged by a 5000 mile interval has a serious design
defect.
--
Please remove the 'X' to respond via email
MDT Tech®
>
> OK - OK - I understand how to AVOID IT. But I have been a BAD-BOY and not
> changed oil every 3000 miles. I am curious how I can see if I have ALREADY
> done damage. What should I look for.
>
Goldberg, you have to be really bad, you can go 5000 or even 7,500, are
you still bad? You can pull hte front valve cover. If you do have
sludge, yet, the vehicle runs fine, its not damaged, well, it can be
fixed reasonably.
--
MDT Tech®
***Toyota Master Diagnostic Technician/ASE Master/L-1***
Some quotes from: "Say the RIGHT thing" by Kirby Wilbur/Floyd Brown
========================================================================
There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americans... The one
absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing
all possibility of it continuing to be a nation at all, would be to
permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.--T Roosevelt
========================================================================
The vice of capitalism is that it stands for the unequal sharing of
blessings; whereas the virtue of socialism is that it stands for the
equal sharing of misery.--Winston Churchill
========================================================================
The more is given, the less the people will work for themselves and the
less they work, the more their poverty will increase.--Leo Tolstoy
========================================================================
Welfare's purpose should be to eliminate, as far as possible, the need
for its own existence.--Ronald Reagan
========================================================================
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile--hoping it will eat him last.
========================================================================
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety--Benjamin Franklin
========================================================================
When liberty is taken by force it can be restored by force. When it is
relinquished voluntarily by default it can never be recovered.
MDT Tech®
>
> Well, the whole discussion is precisely the opposite:
>
> People took care of their cars and they HAVE sludged up engines. That's
> why Toyota changed the designs. If the 2002 engine already incorporated
> those changes, then Toyota anticipated it.
No they didnt take care of thier engines.
And how would you know they took care of their engines, " because you
read it on the internet" or even a website? LOL :-D
MDT Tech®
Well, then you should feel safe, so far, its only been 12,000 and 15,000
mile intervals and more that will get you trouble.
jjn...@sonic.net
Ford Escort has a 3000 mile interval for severe. Now you know.
TCL
--
Please reply to:
NO SPAM PLEASE
"Bill G." <Bi...@XRoyal.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.17184d96e...@news2.news.adelphia.net...
name
name
to do very quickly.
Modern oil should be fine 12K-15K - granted MUCH less because of some
engines.
name
do specify 3000 for severe service.
MDT Tech®
>
> Likewise, how did you know they didn't. That's the point.
>
Easy, asked them for service records, looked at the lube sticker to see
oil change was due 8K miles ago etc, they will sometimes fess up or have
no proof, not a one has had proof yet. I bet I'm more involved in this
than you and will forget more on this than you will ever know on it. ;-D
MDT Tech®
>
> That's why Toyota is changing the design. They seen to know exactly what
> to do very quickly.
What did they change, where did you find out what they changed and where
did you hear it from. I get correspopndence as a technician on
absolutely everything that comes down, I get every TSB ever made, every
year, all recall notices etc, I'm just trying to figure out where yo
uget all your bogus info from, you think its so because you read it on
the internet? LOL :-)
>
> Modern oil should be fine 12K-15K - granted MUCH less because of some
> engines.
Pigs eye!
Chuck
wrote:
>name wrote:
>>
>> That's why Toyota is changing the design. They seen to know exactly what
>> to do very quickly.
>
>What did they change, where did you find out what they changed and where
>did you hear it from. I get correspopndence as a technician on
>absolutely everything that comes down, I get every TSB ever made, every
>year, all recall notices etc, I'm just trying to figure out where yo
>uget all your bogus info from, you think its so because you read it on
>the internet? LOL :-)
Here's an excerpt from USA Today's article on the Toyota oil sludge
problem. The story suggests that Toyota has acknowledged that a design
flaw is contributing to this problem and is working on a redesign ...
Chuck
Re: Toyota to repay customers with oil-sludge problem
By David Kiley, USA TODAY
DETROIT - Toyota acknowledged Wednesday that millions of its cars and
trucks could develop a ruinous oil-sludge problem and said it would
repay owners who have had to make repairs.
Toyota says the problem is caused by going too long between oil
changes, but nevertheless says it is changing the engine design to
prevent a repeat.
Affected: 3.0-liter V-6 and 2.2-liter four-cylinder engines in more
than 3.5 million 1997-2002 Toyota Camrys, Avalons, Highlanders and
Siennas and Lexus ES and RX 300s.
Toyota says it will repay owners for repairs and other related
expenses, such as car rentals.
Toyota had been resisting repayment, prompting angry owners to demand
arbitration, hire lawyers and vent on the Internet.
Toyota's acknowledgment of a potential problem is significant because
of the reputation Toyota and Lexus enjoy for high quality.
"I was a loyal Toyota owner, on my third, but this is my last because
of the way they have treated this," says Robin Burpee, a Sienna
minivan owner in Mendon, Mich. She spent $5,000 on repairs, car
rentals and other expenses.
Lawyers in Georgia and Florida have been gathering steam to seek
class-action status for a planned lawsuit against Toyota.
Marketing experts say Toyota's decision is an example of how
persuasive the Internet can be. "Where do people go to research their
car purchase? The Net," says marketing consultant Paul Franklin.
"I'm sure Toyota hates to see so many complaint sites come up on a
Google search of its brand," he says, referring to the Internet search
engine.
Toyota spokesman John Hanson acknowledges that the anti-Toyota
Internet comments contributed to the decision. But, he says, "It is
not an engine defect. We are sure the problem comes from people not
changing their oil often enough."
Hanson says the problems have been concentrated where winters are
extremely cold and summers are especially humid and among owners who
make a lot of short trips. Hanson says the company is making an
immediate change to its V-6 engine that will give a wider margin of
error if people wait too long to change their oil. A redesign of the
four-cylinder already incorporated a similar change.
WZ
listed below, is states he works Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. as a
Corporate Manger in the Toyota Customer Services division.
http://townhall-talk2.edmunds.com/WebX?1...@214.uRGxaKFQ4cB^0@.ef0adfa/151!Z=y
rlsnDu5BGtvrbZRcz0JKiaguwi5wUrEllMJLN7kS5ajxN2zEVrXV54+39F1QJgZXCBxdXP4eBjWk
07hW94+TQ
He stated in part -- "...Toyota has initiated a revision to the crankcase
ventilation system that will help it tolerate sludge buildup somewhat
longer. The design change was to the cam cover's interior baffle. The holes
that allow oil vapor carried by the PCV system to condense and drip back
into the cylinder head were enlarged. Still, if oil changes are deferred,
this change will not eliminate the build-up of sludge. It will likely just
delay the onset of engine damage..."
"MDT Tech®" <ssau...@repairman.com> wrote in message
news:3CAFBAF7...@repairman.com...
name
[pork] face from an expert at Valvoline who indicated that the max life
of modern oil easily reaches 12-15K (granted much less depending on
engine types - such as Toyota ;). And even with the following from a
Corporate Manger in the Toyota Customer Services division.
Of course, Toyota could tell us more if they go further in detailing the
ENGINE CHANGES before and after the affected years. This is a type of
info only Toyota can provide. And thanks to the Toyota Corporate Manager
below, we at least are learning a little more.
Hank
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38302&a=a&bt=toyota+sludge
in which I read this:
"Larry Perry, an A.S.E.-Certified Master Technician, repair-shop owner
and host of a radio talk show in Orlando,
Fla...........................bla bla bla, high temps, small passages,
glycol etc, and then..................
"also points out that this engine series uses a lifter bucket instead
of a rocker arm to open and close the valves.
"The lifter sits in the head and gets sludge and debris compacted up
underneath it. So when it gets compacted by the camshaft, it's
squeezing oil into the combustion chambers," he said. "
Now, I nearly fell off of the chair laughing at this. I think the
journalist got in a little over his head paraphrasing this or I would
guess that ASE certification must be as easy to get as a driver's
license. I would really like to see MH, the auto expert, comment on
this.
This story also mentioned a lady with 29,000 miles on a seized engine
and some jiffy lube receipts that Toyota won't accept.
Also mention was made of 5000 people with the problem.
C'mon you guys, isn't litigation yore national sport? Bring on Johnny
Cochran !!
If any of this "evidence" is legit you should be counting your cash
already, right?
So, howcum you aren't?
Huh????
Huw
"name" <em...@addr.com> wrote in message
news:3CB0E8C3...@addr.com...
> Yeah, MDT was taking a hard stance that he is now getting eggs in
his
> [pork] face from an expert at Valvoline who indicated that the max
life
> of modern oil easily reaches 12-15K (granted much less depending on
> engine types - such as Toyota ;). And even with the following from
a
> Corporate Manger in the Toyota Customer Services division.
>
> Of course, Toyota could tell us more if they go further in
detailing the
> ENGINE CHANGES before and after the affected years. This is a type
of
> info only Toyota can provide. And thanks to the Toyota Corporate
Manager
> below, we at least are learning a little more.
>
>
I did try and warn them it might not be clear cut. I really did. No
matter, once through these muddy waters there will again be crystal
clear vision, but it may be a slightly different landscape to before,
where Toyota is seen in perhaps a healthier, more realistic, light.
Huw
I wonder if there is a job for me at Toyota PR?
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.343 / Virus Database: 190 - Release Date: 23/03/02
Huw
"Hank" <tac...@KAM.nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:3cb0eb72....@allnews.nbnet.nb.ca...
there is a lot in what you say of course, but it is early days yet.
As far as some of those certificates go, of course they are doled out
to every grease monkey that attends a manufacturers course for a few
days a year at their employers expense. It does not mean that their
opinion on any specific point, such as 'oil quality and its effect on
service intervals and engine life' is worthy of more weight than
yours or mine. It just means they have been through the motions in
their particular field which may be very narrow in certain respects.
A *master* may have completed a couple or three courses on his or her
speciality such as, say, 'suspension alignment on Yaris cars'.
Someone is sure to correct me if this is even slightly wrong;)
Huw
Charlie Parker
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3cb0f2c2_2@mk-nntp- >
> Someone is sure to correct me if this is even slightly wrong;)
or if it doesn't agree with their preconceived misconceptions.
MDT Tech®
>
> Yeah, MDT was taking a hard stance that he is now getting eggs in his
> [pork] face from an expert at Valvoline who indicated that the max life
> of modern oil easily reaches 12-15K (granted much less depending on
> engine types - such as Toyota ;). And even with the following from a
> Corporate Manger in the Toyota Customer Services division.
>
LOL, yeah, egg on my face pea brain, show me where any Toyota tells you
to go 12K-15K miles between oil changes in this country (US), when
Valvoline starts making cars, they can put any interval on them they
like or if they will pay for any damage as a result of going that long,
then do it. I'm still taking the same stance, change you oil per the
makers recommendations, and you call that a hard stance! LOL Since when
is following instructions a hard stance! If it is, I'm a real hard ass
and your a dumb ass!
name
12-15K between oil changes. You are losing your sanity over this issue.
Toyota never paid you enough to have high blood pressure.
Why don't you contact your Toyota managers and learn about what they are
doing in resolving this sludge issue. You can also start by reading the
following:
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=1925
MDT TechŽ wrote:
>
> name wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, MDT was taking a hard stance that he is now getting eggs in his
> > [pork] face from an expert at Valvoline who indicated that the max life
> > of modern oil easily reaches 12-15K (granted much less depending on
> > engine types - such as Toyota ;). And even with the following from a
> > Corporate Manger in the Toyota Customer Services division.
> >
>
> LOL, yeah, egg on my face pea brain, show me where any Toyota tells you
> to go 12K-15K miles between oil changes in this country (US), when
> Valvoline starts making cars, they can put any interval on them they
> like or if they will pay for any damage as a result of going that long,
> then do it. I'm still taking the same stance, change you oil per the
> makers recommendations, and you call that a hard stance! LOL Since when
> is following instructions a hard stance! If it is, I'm a real hard ass
> and your a dumb ass!
> --
>
>
> MDT TechŽ
Mike...@mailcity.com
to what was on TV the other night. Toyota is repairing any of the
sludge effected engines, still in warranty without, proof of
maintenance. In addition they are extending the warranty on the
two engines to seven years, regardless of mileage.
mike
name wrote:
>
> Read my message again - I never did say that Toyota asked anyone to go
> 12-15K between oil changes. You are losing your sanity over this issue.
> Toyota never paid you enough to have high blood pressure.
>
> Why don't you contact your Toyota managers and learn about what they are
> doing in resolving this sludge issue. You can also start by reading the
> following:
>
> http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=1925
>
> MDT Tech® wrote:
> >
> > name wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeah, MDT was taking a hard stance that he is now getting eggs in his
> > > [pork] face from an expert at Valvoline who indicated that the max life
> > > of modern oil easily reaches 12-15K (granted much less depending on
> > > engine types - such as Toyota ;). And even with the following from a
> > > Corporate Manger in the Toyota Customer Services division.
> > >
> >
> > LOL, yeah, egg on my face pea brain, show me where any Toyota tells you
> > to go 12K-15K miles between oil changes in this country (US), when
> > Valvoline starts making cars, they can put any interval on them they
> > like or if they will pay for any damage as a result of going that long,
> > then do it. I'm still taking the same stance, change you oil per the
> > makers recommendations, and you call that a hard stance! LOL Since when
> > is following instructions a hard stance! If it is, I'm a real hard ass
> > and your a dumb ass!
> > --
> >
> >
> > MDT Tech®
MDT Tech®
>
> Read my message again - I never did say that Toyota asked anyone to go
> 12-15K between oil changes. You are losing your sanity over this issue.
> Toyota never paid you enough to have high blood pressure.
>
> Why don't you contact your Toyota managers and learn about what they are
> doing in resolving this sludge issue. You can also start by reading the
> following:
>
Don't need to read some letter, I will get my own from TSB without the
speculation and the loss in translation.
High blood pressure, I'm relaxed as can be at work, remember, every car
problem I deal with is someone else's problem, not mine, I go home at 5,
weather the customer has a car or is walking, I have zero sludge in
anything I own, no problem, not mine!
--
MDT Tech®
Davidj92
> As far as some of those certificates go, of course they are doled out
> to every grease monkey that attends a manufacturers course for a few
> days a year at their employers expense. It does not mean that their
> opinion on any specific point, such as 'oil quality and its effect on
> service intervals and engine life' is worthy of more weight than
> yours or mine. It just means they have been through the motions in
> their particular field which may be very narrow in certain respects.
> A *master* may have completed a couple or three courses on his or her
> speciality such as, say, 'suspension alignment on Yaris cars'.
>
> Someone is sure to correct me if this is even slightly wrong;)
>
> Huw
>
>
anything. You take a test in a controlled environment that is very
detailed. If you haven't studied and have hands on experience you WON'T
pass. (There are exceptions to this but, I suspect few). You have to have
minimum two years experience and it has to be verified or you won't get your
certification in any area.
To be a Master or MDT you have to be certified in all 8 areas and none of
them are easy.
Many dealers have the training tailored to their brand but, that doesn't
make it any easier, a tech still has to pass each test to become certified.
--
Hope this helps,
davidj92
The Best Way To Have A Good
Idea Is To Have A Lot Of Ideas.
Linus Pauling
Davidj92
> [pork] face from an expert at Valvoline who indicated that the max life
> of modern oil easily reaches 12-15K (granted much less depending on
> engine types - such as Toyota ;). And even with the following from a
> Corporate Manger in the Toyota Customer Services division.
>
Please read a letter I received from Valvoline last year:
(My email to Valvoline)
I was told approximately 30 years ago by a Valvoline representative that
driving only short distances would cause moisture to mix with engine oil and
cause sludge to build up. He also stated that changing brands of oil at
every service/change interval could cause sludge buildup if the oils were
different crudes - paraffin base vs. asphalt base. I have followed these
guidelines faithfully for these 30 yrs., never had a sludge problem and have
used Valvoline for most of those yrs as well. grin I am now being questioned
as to the validity of these facts. Can you supply me with any info, please?
Thanks in advance, Dave
David,
Thank you for you interest in Valvoline, and the Valvoline family of
products. Motor oils today are much more advanced than 30 years ago, as you
can imagine. You are correct in that if you only do short distance driving,
the engine does not have time to heat up to evaporate any water
accumulation, and this water gets absorbed by the oil. However, today's oils
have appropriate additives to fight water accumulation, but it becomes more
important to change your oil at 3,000 miles because the water will cut down
the oils life to the minimum, which is 3,000 miles. It is also not a good
idea to mix oils, or change oil brands every time you change the oil, but
not because they are different bases. All oils these days are paraffin
based, but the problem is in the additives. Brand x uses different types of
additives than brand y, and if you mix these additives, there is no telling
what could happen. This is a common cause of sludge also, that's why it is a
good idea to pick a brand and stick with it. Also, another thing to keep in
mind, sludge is never an oils fault, if there is sludge in the oil then
something is contaminating the oil, like antifreeze, water, or even another
oil or oil additive, but an oil doesn't just sludge up by itself. Thanks
again for your interest in Valvoline.
If you have any further questions please feel free to call us here at
1800TEAMVAL.
Joey, Valvoline Tech Services
name
anyone cares if you read only TSBs. But Toyota managers certainly are
reading other articles.
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=1925
MDT TechŽ wrote:
>
> name wrote:
> >
> > Read my message again - I never did say that Toyota asked anyone to go
> > 12-15K between oil changes. You are losing your sanity over this issue.
> > Toyota never paid you enough to have high blood pressure.
> >
> > Why don't you contact your Toyota managers and learn about what they are
> > doing in resolving this sludge issue. You can also start by reading the
> > following:
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=1925
name
for sharing.
name
topic will remain in the technical community for quite a while. We'll
see what comes up next after this:
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=1925
MDT Tech®
>
> Yeah, Toyota thinks it's none of its problem as well. I don't think
> anyone cares if you read only TSBs. But Toyota managers certainly are
> reading other articles.
I've got my info directly from Toyota, I can care less about an article.
name
Stuart Baker
July 2001. Is that the date when Toyota made the production change? My car
has the V6 and was made in January of 2002, should I assume that the change
is in my engine?
Stuart Baker
"name" <em...@addr.com> wrote in message news:3CB63CF3...@addr.com...
>
> http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=1925
>
jjn...@sonic.net
> Yeah, Toyota thinks it's none of its problem as well. I don't think
> anyone cares if you read only TSBs. But Toyota managers certainly are
> reading other articles.
You seem to be interested more in the politics of the issue, since that's
mostly what it is. BTW, I notice you are still afraid of your own words.
MDT Tech®
>
> Fine, just continue to broadcast what Toyota tells you.
>
Thatas why people visit here, they want to know what Toyota says and
they can get it from me. No speculation here, if I do, I tell them is
only speculation. I have more info on this, but I'm not telling you
anything. :-P
Charlene Blake
miles to show you....and before that, some oil with only 2,400 miles on it
with excessive fuel contamination.
Charlene Blake
cbl...@erols.com
----------
In article <a8khkj$sta9d$1...@ID-114862.news.dfncis.de>, "Alan"
<alan...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> If you cange your oil every 3500 miles, you don't need to even think about
> it.
>
>
> "Goldberg" <gold...@erinet.com> wrote in message
> news:3cad17db$0$3111$2c3e...@news.voyager.net...
>> How can I tell if my '99 Avalon is building up SLUDGE. I would hat eto
> have
>> a catastrophic failure and THEN find out.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Charlene Blake
with fuel contamination which will ultimately lead to premature engine wear
and increased running temperatures. Yes, sludge can form subsequent to fuel
contamination, too.
Charlene Blake
cbl...@erols.com
----------
In article <uashd6d...@corp.supernews.com>, "Roger Zoul"
<roge...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Goldberg" <gold...@erinet.com> wrote
>
>> OK - OK - I understand how to AVOID IT. But I have been a BAD-BOY and not
>> changed oil every 3000 miles. I am curious how I can see if I have
> ALREADY
>> done damage. What should I look for.
>
> Check the oil on the stick....if it feels like gel or really thick, you
> might have trouble.
>
>
>
Charlene Blake
The issue is far from moot. The new letter has not even been distributed
yet. From what I hear, there is room for "exceptions" which may bring the
owners back to square one. This would be unacceptable.
There is certainly a requirement for maintenance proof. WHERE did you get
the information below?
Currently an owner is TRYING to get sludge repairs covered under the new SPA
BUT the dealership is insisting that the policy is a ONE-TIME REPAIR. This
dealership refuses to cover a second repair. This is hardly the policy you
mention below. Is Toyota giving one story to the media and another to the
owners who show up at the dealerships?
Charlene Blake
cbl...@erols.com
----------
Charlene Blake
Automotives News has two reporters working on the sludge story
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38921
List of suspects
Faulty head gasket, allowing coolant to leak into oil system
Unburned gasoline contaminating oil
Inadequate oil circulation
Infrequent changes of oil and filter
Poor quality or nondetergent oil
Oxides of nitrogen from emissions system contaminate oil
Engine runs too cool in spots, causing condensation buildup inside crankcase
Engine runs too hot in spots, causing oil to break down faster
Seal on oil filler cap fails, allowing moisture to enter engine through
valve cover
Too many short trips or frequent driving under adverse conditions
Charlene Blake
cbl...@erols.com
----------
In article <3cad17db$0$3111$2c3e...@news.voyager.net>, "Goldberg"
<gold...@erinet.com> wrote:
> How can I tell if my '99 Avalon is building up SLUDGE. I would hat eto have
name
vehicles that I owned. The oil also gets dirty quite quickly that I am
changing it out every 2000-3000 miles. I suspect something is wrong, but
certainly won't wait until the engine sludges up.
One of these days I'll do the wood stick test to see if there is sludge
under the valve cover.
While Toyota can fix the engine, or rather "clean" it, I doubt it will
run well after the grease monkeys are done with it.
name
hype the products and indeed mislead people.
I agree that the issue is NOT over until all affected owners rid their
Toyotas. In fact, maybe one of these guys who think the issue is over
would like to buy my Camry. (Don't worry if it sludges up, Toyota will
take care of it!)
name
engines sludged up!
Read the following:
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=1925
"But there are about 100 entries in the National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration's Consumer Complaints database from Toyota and Lexus
owners who say they they were not reimbursed. Many complainants say they
could prove with receipts that they followed proper maintenance
procedures, but were told the sludge problem was caused by abuse and
wouldn't be covered."
David Spera
MDT Tech®
>
> No, the problem is that people who CHANGED OIL REGULARLY are having
> engines sludged up!
>
Oh, a retract that last post, I'll pay you 1/8th of what its worth then,
we know yours has sludge.
MDT Tech®
>
> I won't be surprised if you see a lot of Toyota affiliates trying to
> hype the products and indeed mislead people.
>
> I agree that the issue is NOT over until all affected owners rid their
> Toyotas. In fact, maybe one of these guys who think the issue is over
> would like to buy my Camry. (Don't worry if it sludges up, Toyota will
> take care of it!)
Hey Name, I'll buy your Camry, but I will only pay one third of what its
worth because of the sludge problem. What year, miles and when can I
pick it up?
jjn...@sonic.net
> engines sludged up!
> Read the following:
> http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=1925
> "But there are about 100 entries in the National Highway Traffic Safety
> Administration's Consumer Complaints database from Toyota and Lexus
> owners who say they they were not reimbursed. Many complainants say they
> could prove with receipts that they followed proper maintenance
> procedures, but were told the sludge problem was caused by abuse and
> wouldn't be covered."
Say what?
MDT Tech®
>
> If you believe that one, I have some fuel-contaminated oil at just 1,500
> miles to show you....and before that, some oil with only 2,400 miles on it
> with excessive fuel contamination.
>
Oh, well, that would mean short trips and that would put you under
"severe" so I assume you did your oil change every 5K max, right. LOL
:-D
MDT Tech®
>
> I do notice a strong smell of gas in my 99 Camry than I've seen in other
> vehicles that I owned. The oil also gets dirty quite quickly that I am
> changing it out every 2000-3000 miles. I suspect something is wrong, but
> certainly won't wait until the engine sludges up.
LOL, that funny, its kinda like telling someone at work he looks ill,
even though, he feels fine,a fter a while, he goes home sick. LOL :-D
LOL, name can I recommend you pull your forward valve cover (V6) or the
only valve cover if tis a 4 cylinder, of course,
>
> One of these days I'll do the wood stick test to see if there is sludge
> under the valve cover.
> While Toyota can fix the engine, or rather "clean" it, I doubt it will
> run well after the grease monkeys are done with it.
Then drive it to the junk yard while its still running, will save you a
tow fee. LOL :-D
Roger Zoul
"MDT Tech®" <ssau...@repairman.com> wrote in message
news:3CBF884D...@repairman.com...
> > No, the problem is that people who CHANGED OIL REGULARLY are having
> > engines sludged up!
> >
>
> Oh, a retract that last post, I'll pay you 1/8th of what its worth then,
> we know yours has sludge.
MDT Tech.....don't you work for a toyota dealer somewhere? Do you work on
Toyotas? The reason I ask it that your comments to name really worry
me....since all of this sludge stuff is out there, this basically means the
resale value of my Camry 2002 SE V6 will be nothing. This is not why I
bought my Camry! And who knows the real truth about this sludge thing,
anyway? What if contaminants are getting into the engine....either through
water, gas, or dirty air,etc. This means that even if I do change my oil
regularly, the engine may have a shortened life. This sucks, and you seem to
be adding fuel to the fire.
Roger Zoul
car....she said that she has some contaminated oil....I'll bet money it
didn't come out of her car....
"David Spera" <sp...@sgi.net> wrote
Roger Zoul
"MDT Tech®" <ssau...@repairman.com> wrote
> LOL, name can I recommend you pull your forward valve cover (V6) or the
> only valve cover if tis a 4 cylinder, of course,
Can someone explain how do to this? I have the V6.
MDT Tech®
>
> MDT Tech.....don't you work for a toyota dealer somewhere? Do you work on
> Toyotas? The reason I ask it that your comments to name really worry
> me....since all of this sludge stuff is out there, this basically means the
> resale value of my Camry 2002 SE V6 will be nothing. This is not why I
> bought my Camry! And who knows the real truth about this sludge thing,
> anyway? What if contaminants are getting into the engine....either through
> water, gas, or dirty air,etc. This means that even if I do change my oil
> regularly, the engine may have a shortened life. This sucks, and you seem to
> be adding fuel to the fire.
Roger, chill dude, all those comments were tounge in cheek directed
toward "name" which he conceals, he changes his oil every 3K but is
petrified from all the hype and Char has convinced him he has a STD or
something, he was mentioning he wished he had gotten the Honda now, so I
offered to buy his for pennys on the dollar, according to him, its shot
and worth little to nothing, he has a 99 Camry. Relax, all these things
do get into the oil, the trick is to change the oil to get them out of
the engine. ;-)
MDT Tech®
Roger, pull your trim piece, plastic, will be secured with a 5mm allen,
once its off, then remove the cover bolts, you will see varnish, thta is
the darkening or oil coking, but with the correct service, it will be
free of buildup, remove it and report back, also tell us what your
intervals were between changes and how many miles you have on the
engine. $20 sais you have no sludge at all, wana bet??? :-D
Roger Zoul
> Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> >
> > MDT Tech.....don't you work for a toyota dealer somewhere? Do you work
on
> > Toyotas? The reason I ask it that your comments to name really worry
> > me....since all of this sludge stuff is out there, this basically means
the
> > resale value of my Camry 2002 SE V6 will be nothing. This is not why I
> > bought my Camry! And who knows the real truth about this sludge thing,
> > anyway? What if contaminants are getting into the engine....either
through
> > water, gas, or dirty air,etc. This means that even if I do change my
oil
> > regularly, the engine may have a shortened life. This sucks, and you
seem to
> > be adding fuel to the fire.
>
>
>
> Roger, chill dude, all those comments were tounge in cheek directed
> toward "name" which he conceals, he changes his oil every 3K but is
> petrified from all the hype and Char has convinced him he has a STD or
> something, he was mentioning he wished he had gotten the Honda now, so I
> offered to buy his for pennys on the dollar, according to him, its shot
> and worth little to nothing, he has a 99 Camry. Relax, all these things
> do get into the oil, the trick is to change the oil to get them out of
> the engine. ;-)
Actually, I came the that conclusion (tongue -n- cheek) after reading a few
more of your and name's posts...then I thought it was pretty funny what you
were doing. Thanks.
Charlene Blake
every 1000 miles or so! Would this work? Since my own oil changed
drastically in color, composition, and density in just 500 miles, I doubt
that this interval would be sufficient.
Charlene Blake
cbl...@erols.com
----------
In article <3CC0BC3A...@repairman.com>, MDT Tech®
Roger Zoul
interval was at 5000 miles. Of course, I have been using the dealer for all
oil changes...and have been getting my little book stamped... and have all
of the receipts. So if there should be any problems, the ball will be in
their court....
"Charlene Blake" <cbl...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:a9ve3o$n0p$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
MB
mike
0p0000000000000000000
Scott Blair
"Charlene Blake wrote in message
> Yes, perhaps we should as a recent AERA bulletin implied, change the
oil
> every 1000 miles or so! Would this work? Since my own oil changed
> drastically in color, composition, and density in just 500 miles, I doubt
> that this interval would be sufficient.
>
>
>
> Charlene Blake
> cbl...@erols.com
Charlene,
I've read most of your rants.....
One thing you have NEVER done, is show us your receipts for oil changes. If
you would like to do that, I'm sure one of us would be happy to scan your
receipts for you.
If you don't provide this proof, then I shall assume you are a liar.
.
MDT Tech®
Then you'd better get started, I have 11 megs of free webspace I offered
to donate as much as she needed, her own ISP allows for 10 megs of free
space (I looked into Erols already), that would be more than plenty to
show all her proof, heck, she can even blot out her address if thats
what she's worried about, I have asked the same thing, she doesn't even
reply to the post, she will reply to all the others, but none that ask
her for her proof. Don't hold your breath Scott, unless you want brain
damage from oxygen deprivation.
Scott Blair
"MDT TechŽ" wrote in part
Don't hold your breath Scott, unless you want brain
damage from oxygen deprivation.
--------------------------------------------------------
Nah Rick,
She isn't worth it. Besides if I died, {{{{{shaky}}}}} might get elected
here in Florida. I must live at least long enough to vote against
her........ <g>
MDT Tech®
>
> Nah Rick,
>
> She isn't worth it. Besides if I died, {{{{{shaky}}}}} might get elected
> here in Florida. I must live at least long enough to vote against
> her........ <g>
Well Scott, something just tells me the (((shaker))) will go first, call
it a hunch I guess. :-D
name
to fix the problem, they also have to deal with drastically reduced
resale value of their affected Toyotas. On this Toyota hasn't adequately
addressed with their SPA.
Then again, maybe Toyota should send MDT a roll of toilet paper for his
mouth.
name
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=1925
"But there are about 100 entries in the National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration's Consumer Complaints database from Toyota and Lexus
owners who say they they were not reimbursed. Many complainants say they
could prove with receipts that they followed proper maintenance
procedures, but were told the sludge problem was caused by abuse and
wouldn't be covered."
Also, arbitrary board decisions aren't legal decisions in the precedence
setting sense. Just bring this whole issue in front of a court of law
and we'll see the final word.
ChipState wrote:
>
> In article <ubvt41d...@corp.supernews.com>, "Roger Zoul"
> <Roger...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > This means that even if I do change my oil
> >regularly, the engine may have a shortened life. This sucks, and you seem to
> >be adding fuel to the fire.
> >
>
> It appears to me that you are being swept up by the internet and Press
> hysteria. MDT is a thoroughly qualifed master Toyota tech with ASE certs and a
> lotta years experience (not limited to Toyota). Nobody who changes their oil
> at less than 5k mile intervals has had detrimental sludge accumulations.
>
> So... stop fueling the hysteria.
>
>
MDT Tech®
>
> The sludge problem won't be over for a long time -- people not only have
> to fix the problem, they also have to deal with drastically reduced
> resale value of their affected Toyotas. On this Toyota hasn't adequately
> addressed with their SPA.
Hey, give ya $2500 cash for your 99 Camry V6 name, hurry, prices are
coming down! I'll even leave the DRL's in place and fly there, drive it
back!