'98 Camry Running Cold
Kari Walters
First, thank you for reading this message! I have a minor(?) problem with my car. It
is a 1998 Camry LE with a 2.2 litre engine. I live in the Northeast United States
and since the weather has gotten cooler I've noticed that there is not much heat
blowing out of the vents and the temperature gauge is reading lower than normal. By
that, I mean that the needle, which normally sits between the three and four o'clock
position, stays closer to the cold position (C) or slightly under - at just about
the five o'clock position. The problem is that it's not blowing very much heat, and
the outside temperature is only around 30° - I may freeze if it really gets cold
out! The strange thing is that If I stop moving and allow the car to idle for three
or four minutes, the temp gauge goes right back up to normal temperature (between
three and four o'clock) and starts blowing much warmer air. If I start to drive
again, within a minute or two, it's back down to 'C' and the heater is blowing
cooler air - not cold but not that warm.
I've driven this car through five cold winters and it has always put out excellent
heat. Also, I'm sure my engine gauge has always read between the three and four
o'clock position even when it's very cold outside. My dad thinks it may be that the
thermostat is stuck open and told me to just stuff some cardboard in front of the
radiator. I'm wondering if something else could be going wrong, like maybe the water
pump or a sensor. If anyone has any ideas, I'd be very grateful if you post them
here.
Thank you for listening,
Kari
tim...@mailcity.com
As previous poster said, sounds like a new thermostat is in order.
Not only does it make for chilly driving, the engine doesn't operate
as well as it should with this problem. Don't follow Dad's advice
about the cardboard.
MarvinShos via CarKB.com
suggested to get some more data. I'm 90% sure the problem is a stuck open
thermostat. Blocking the radiator will prove the point as it will prevent the
cold air from adequately cooling the radiator coolant. The thermostat is a
regulating device which attempts to regulate the temperature to 180deg.
--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/toyota-camry/200712/1
tim...@mailcity.com
> I have the '97 version of the same car. I would first try what your dad
> suggested to get some more data. I'm 90% sure the problem is a stuck open
> thermostat. Blocking the radiator will prove the point as it will prevent the
> cold air from adequately cooling the radiator coolant. The thermostat is a
> regulating device which attempts to regulate the temperature to 180deg.
You can check the thermo without the cardboard and without the risk of
problems associated with it....Just feel the radiator hose as
described in this link....it also mentions several other possible
problems....and cautions against cardboard....
Regardless, the thermostat is the most likely culprit...
http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repairqa/fluids_heat_air_conditioning/ques020_3.html
mack
<tim...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:2d76ee1f-e5fb-415e...@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 13, 9:14 am, "MarvinShos via CarKB.com" <u35633@uwe> wrote:
>> I have the '97 version of the same car. I would first try what your dad
>> suggested to get some more data. I'm 90% sure the problem is a stuck open
>> thermostat. Blocking the radiator will prove the point as it will prevent
>> the
>> cold air from adequately cooling the radiator coolant. The thermostat is
>> a
>> regulating device which attempts to regulate the temperature to 180deg.
>
> You can check the thermo without the cardboard and without the risk of
> problems associated with it....Just feel the radiator hose as
> described in this link....it also mentions several other possible
> problems....and cautions against cardboard....
>
> Regardless, the thermostat is the most likely culprit...
>
There were some high end cars (I think of Packards) which were able to close
the slats in the grille in front of the radiator and thus augment the heat
of the radiator water (and anti-freeze). But the cardboard is not a good
idea. Go for the thermostat replacement.
Kari Walters
Thank you all for your responses! I will replace the thermostat before doing
anything drastic. I'm going to attempt it myself, while following directions
downloaded from the Internet so wish me luck.
Thanx,
Kari
tim...@mailcity.com
Pretty simple job really....I've done several of them....only screwed
it up once, and that was because I let the edge of the "stat" slip and
I bent it under the housing, which caused a nice leak....As someone
else mentioned, since you are trying it yourself, do yourself a favor,
pay a few extra $$$ and get a genuine Toyota "stat." Odds are
something else will work, but in the aftermarket stats I have seen,
none of them have this certain little hole that TOY puts in theirs.
Maybe that hole is unimportant, but after doing all that labor (which
isn't that much), hate to see the job negated by an attempt to save $5-
$7 with another brand. Thermostats, coolant and ignition parts in my
opinion should all be Toyota brand. All the rest, aftermarket is fine.
Nobody Important
Here in Canada, everybody does the cardboard thing, and I've never heard
of a case of overheating because of it. Lots of those same people idle
their cars for 15 minutes using remote car starters before they start
driving, and, again, no overheating.
--
... "`... then I decided that I was a lemon for a couple of
weeks. I kept myself amused all that time jumping in and
out of a gin and tonic.'
Arthur cleared his throat, and then did it again.
`Where,' he said, `did you...?'
`Find a gin and tonic?' said Ford brightly. `I found a
small lake that thought it was a gin and tonic, and jumped
in and out of that. At least, I think it thought it was a
gin and tonic.'
`I may,' he addded with a grin which would have sent sane
men scampering into the trees, `have been imagining it.'"
- Ford updating Arthur about what he's been doing for the past four years.
ransley
> mack wrote:
> > <timb...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Use a Toy thermostat, Ive had bad luck with aftermarket not being
sized right or not working.
mack
<tim...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:2b1d0fae-5a1c-40ca...@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
and, IMPORTANT!, don't ever replace the thermostat upside down ! Note
carefully when you remove the housing which way the damned thing is facing.
It really isn't a hard job, and with a decent socket wrench, it shouldn't
take long. Check for leakage at the base of the housing when you're done,
by running the engine for a few minutes. ...and DO get a genuine Toyota
thermostat.
mjc13<REMOVETHIS>
I think the main risk with cardboard is in leaving it in place when
the weather warms - even for a day in January. Since there is no good
reason to do it in this case, she shouldn't.
I had a '64 Volvo P220 wagon that had a windowshade-like device,
operated by a chain inside the car, that would selectively block off
part or all of the radiator. Engine cooling systems have improved since
then.
john...@hotmail.com
as mentioned.
However, if replacement with a Toyota thermostat and Toyota coolant
with distilled water (or the new Toyota Pink pre-mixed, do not add
water) and you still have the problem, then it's either overcooling
(which is not likely as you mentioned prior winters) or a leaking head
gasket.
Kari Walters
Hello again!
I just wanted to give a big thank you to everyone who helped with my problem.
Yesterday evening, on my own, I replaced the thermostat!. It wasn't quite as easy as
I thought, but I did it, there are no leaks, and my temperature gauge is now right
where it should be -- just below the three o'clock position -- and rocksolid. The
only problem I had was one of the bolts was blocked by what I think is the air
conditioner unit. I had to borrow a wrench from my neighbor to get to it. But other
than that everything went really well.
Thanks again,
Kari... Toyota Mechanic Extraordinaire
Nobody Important
> I just wanted to give a big thank you to everyone who helped with my problem.
> Yesterday evening, on my own, I replaced the thermostat!. It wasn't quite as easy as
> I thought, but I did it, there are no leaks, and my temperature gauge is now right
> where it should be -- just below the three o'clock position -- and rocksolid.
Congratulations, Kari, and thanks for posting your follow-up - lots of
people don't bother doing that and the folks in the newsgroup never get
to learn what the problem really was.
mack
"Kari Walters" <Ka...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:pgv7m3tcsgudliie6...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:04:51 -0500, Kari Walters <Ka...@nowhere.net>
> wrote:
>
> Hello again!
>
> I just wanted to give a big thank you to everyone who helped with my
> problem.
> Yesterday evening, on my own, I replaced the thermostat!. It wasn't quite
> as easy as
> I thought, but I did it, there are no leaks, and my temperature gauge is
> now right
> where it should be -- just below the three o'clock position -- and
> rocksolid. The
> only problem I had was one of the bolts was blocked by what I think is the
> air
> conditioner unit. I had to borrow a wrench from my neighbor to get to it.
> But other
> than that everything went really well.
>
> Thanks again,
> Kari... Toyota Mechanic Extraordinaire
Good going Kari, and thanks for the results of your surgery on the Camry.
If you had the time or interest you might want to take the old thermostat
and look at where the spring seals it closed. This is to shut off the water
to and from the engine....and when the engine starts and heats up, the
spring will open the seal when the temp reaches operating level, allowing
the water to flow through the cooling system. If your old thermostat does
not close all the way when cold, it means the water never reaches the high
temperature it's supposed to.
Unless you're concerned about the heater not getting the hot water going
through it to warm you, there's nothing wrong with having a non-functional
thermostat, except that your engine will operate too cold, and your gas
mileage will suffer. Congrats on your job!
mjc13<REMOVETHIS>
(...)
> Unless you're concerned about the heater not getting the hot water going
> through it to warm you, there's nothing wrong with having a non-functional
> thermostat, except that your engine will operate too cold, and your gas
> mileage will suffer. (...)
An engine that constantly runs too cold will build up acid in the
oil, and will not last as long as a properly maintained engine. It needs
to get hot to drive water condensate out of the oil, to prevent
hydrochloric acid from forming. In the short term, or the Summer, a
stuck-open thermostat won't hurt anything, but in the long term it's one
of the cheapest ways to ruin your motor.
Nobody Important
> In the short term, or the Summer, a
> stuck-open thermostat won't hurt anything, but in the long term it's one
> of the cheapest ways to ruin your motor.
I tested my thermostat initially by dumping it into some hot water and
found that it didn't contract like it was supposed to. Then I tried
again by gradually heating up the water (as it says to do in the factory
service manual) and found that it worked fine. Anybody have any theory
about this? Why would it not contract under thermal shock?
mred
Well I`m in Kanada and I DONT use a cardboard in front of my rad and I
dont know anyone else who does.
Even my daughter who lives inthe far north where temps go to -45 in
the winter doesnt use a cardbaord rad cover.
Those days are gone now with the modern cars.I HAVE used cardboard
rad covers 50+ years ago when a therm. failed "open " in the
winter ,but couldnt work on the car to replace it until the temp
moderated to warm.(No garage)
mred
The rad is under pressure and it will work fine at 15lbs sq in. but
when it is placed under a pressurized rad cap it wont open properly
Nobody Important
>> I tested my thermostat initially by dumping it into some hot water and
>> found that it didn't contract like it was supposed to. Then I tried
>> again by gradually heating up the water (as it says to do in the factory
>> service manual) and found that it worked fine. Anybody have any theory
>> about this? Why would it not contract under thermal shock?
>
> The rad is under pressure and it will work fine at 15lbs sq in. but
> when it is placed under a pressurized rad cap it wont open properly
So you figure I ought to change the 'stat? It's the original one in my
'99, which is why I tested it while I was replacing the timing
belt/water pump. The engine seems to be running at normal temperature
and the cabin air blows hot in a timely manner.
mack
"Nobody Important" <Dr.X...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fk3kkq$6oe$1...@aioe.org...
If it isn't broke, ......etc
john...@hotmail.com
and catalytic converter can get damaged from extended open loop
operation. Not to mention some transmission won't go into overdrive
when the temp is too cold. etc etc
On Dec 15, 11:01 pm, "mjc13<REMOVETHIS>"
john...@hotmail.com
Worn "heat motor" -- that wax bulb thing -- probably leaked wax out.
When I changed out mine there was some waxy stuff at the top, so I
assume it was the wax leaked out.
john...@hotmail.com
time to change the stat. But if it's working now maybe until the next
coolant change.
CamryMan98
like to try replacing it myself.
"Kari Walters" <Ka...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:pgv7m3tcsgudliie6...@4ax.com...
mjc13<REMOVETHIS>
This is coming a little late, obviously, but if you are going to
pull a thermostat that old, replace it, don't test it. It could test
fine and then fail 6 weeks later.
Nobody Important
>> I tested my thermostat initially by dumping it into some hot water and
>> found that it didn't contract like it was supposed to. Then I tried
>> again by gradually heating up the water (as it says to do in the factory
>> service manual) and found that it worked fine. Anybody have any theory
>> about this? Why would it not contract under thermal shock?
john...@hotmail.com wrote:
> You mean it did not close but open properly with heating?
>
> Worn "heat motor" -- that wax bulb thing -- probably leaked wax out.
> When I changed out mine there was some waxy stuff at the top, so I
> assume it was the wax leaked out.
>
Sorry if I wasn't clear - the factory manual says to put the stat into
room temp water and gradually heat it and measure the change in length
near boiling. Figuring it would make no difference, what I did
initially was boil some water and then dunk the stat in it for a while
and then measure the change in length.
What I discovered is that if you don't heat the water gradually with the
stat in it, the length doesn't change. When I heated the water with
the stat in it, the length changed to what it was supposed to.
I was just wondering if anybody knew why the rate of heating affects the
operation of the stat so much. I guess I just don't understand the
principle of operation of the stat. Maybe I didn't hold it in the water
long enough...
Thanks for the other posts in this thread counselling me to change the
stat next time I change the coolant, which will be in a year and a half.
(or sooner if I detect the symptoms that the OP was having).