Road noise

[cameo]

How do Subarus compare in road noise to other car models of similar size
and class? I am driving an older Accord that I like in most respects but
in road noise.

[John McGaw]

Very difficult to answer unless someone has managed to ride in scores of
different vehicles, preferably carrying a sound meter. I'm sure even among
Subaru models there will variations. From my own experience my 2018 Outback
3.6R Touring is admirably quiet. Subaru has been making incremental
improvements in sound control over the last decade with more sound
absorbent materials, better seals, better aerodynamic, and thicker glass.
There are any number of articles searchable online about noise and various
Subaru vehicles of various ages. Why not just go and take a test drive to
see what _you_ think?

https://www.edmunds.com/subaru/outback/2018/consumer-reviews/review-1220676397722738688/

[Wade Garrett]

I had an '07 six-cylinder Accord. Engine and tire noise was minimal but
wind noise at highway speed was disappointing- and about the only thing
I disliked about the car. I recall Consumer Reports dinged them for that
too.

My wife has a '17 Forester that's pretty quiet for an SUV. She's very
happy with it.

But I don't like driving a CVT which knocked Subaru off the prospect
list for my new ride. The CVT is becoming much more prevalent among many
manufacturers. I'm thinking I may end up needing to back to a stick shift;-)

--
The fastest way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

[Patty Winter]

In article <pdcirb$out$1...@news.albasani.net>,

Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>
>But I don't like driving a CVT which knocked Subaru off the prospect
>list for my new ride. The CVT is becoming much more prevalent among many
>manufacturers. I'm thinking I may end up needing to back to a stick shift;-)

What don't you like about CVTs?


Patty

[Frank]

I like my CVT and my Forester gets much better mileage and I need less
braking. Mags like "Car and Driver" don't like it perhaps because it is
not made for speed demons.

[Darryl Johnson]

I had a Ford Escape as a rental last fall. Hated the CVT. Reminded me
a bit of an elastic band when you started from a stop. The engine
would begin to rev and after a bit the car would start to move.

Once you were rolling, I had nothing bad to say about the CVT. But I
hated it around town with all the stop and go.

I seem to recall that Subaru got good marks for their implementation
of the CVT, so perhaps I'd feel more charitable towards one of their
cars with that transmission. The old Imprezza just keeps trucking on,
so unless I get a Subie as a rental, I'm not likely to try one out for
a while yet.

[John McGaw]

I, too, was concerned about the 'rubber band' effect before I bought my
Outback. I can say that, if I didn't know it was a CVT then I would have
never guessed.

[Your Name]

On 2018-05-14 16:02:27 +0000, John McGaw said:
> On 5/13/2018 8:41 PM, cameo wrote:
>>
>> How do Subarus compare in road noise to other car models of similar
>> size and class? I am driving an older Accord that I like in most
>> respects but in road noise.
>
> Very difficult to answer unless someone has managed to ride in scores
> of different vehicles, preferably carrying a sound meter.

<snip>

Even then it's pretty impossible to give a definitive answer. The sound
will depend on not only the car, but the tyres, the road surface, the
weather, your driving style, etc.

[Frank]

Mentioned that my brother bought same Forester as mine. I asked him how
he liked the CVT and he did not know what I was talking about. He had
worked for Chevy dealers all his life in service and sales and should
know cars but this got by him, so I assume he had noticed no difference
from the Outback he had traded for it.

[Wade Garrett]

Overall, there's less control of and feel for the machine.

No positive kick down for highway passing or if emergency acceleration
is needed; no gear selection for engine braking on long, steep
downhills; can't start off in second or third gear on snow/ice; and most
importantly, no up shifting through gears moving off violates the
natural order of things ;-)

--
Does General Tso have any other recipes?
- @patsajak

[cameo]

The paddles substitute for gear selection, don't they? Especially
downhill for motor brake.

[Patty Winter]

In article <pdd6qa$uo2$1...@news.albasani.net>,

Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>On 5/14/18 2:14 PM, Patty Winter wrote:
>>
>> What don't you like about CVTs?
>

>Overall, there's less control of and feel for the machine.
>
>No positive kick down for highway passing or if emergency acceleration
>is needed;

Just downshift.

>no gear selection for engine braking on long, steep
>downhills;

Ditto.

I went up to the Santa Cruz Mountains to visit friends a couple of
weekends ago and put the car down into second gear on a number of
occasions while coming back down out of the mountains so that I
wouldn't have to use the brakes as much.

>can't start off in second or third gear on snow/ice;

Not even if you put it in manual shifting mode? I've never gotten
around to trying that, so I don't know whether it forces you to
start in first gear.

>and most
>importantly, no up shifting through gears moving off violates the
>natural order of things ;-)

You'll definitely hear it upshift if you've downshifted as you come
onto the highway.


Patty

[John McGaw]

I'll take it as read that you haven't driven a new Subaru CVT then. Mine
certainly suffers from none of the problems you describe except (and I
haven't tried it so I won't say) for being able to start out in second. I
certainly can press the X-mode button which does far more for difficult
starts than second gear. The new CVT certainly does (simulated) upshifts in
discreet steps and downshifts to 'passing gear' if I stomp on it and I can
override the automation entirely and use the paddles if I choose to but
seldom do except by way of experimentation.

[Wade Garrett]

A pale imitation of the real thing!

If we were talking about a hamburger instead of a car, the package label
would read "genetically modified tofu and fillers with intimation
flavors and artificial colors".

As Mammy said in Gone With The Wind, "It ain't fittin, it just ain't
fittin."

[Patty Winter]

In article <pdeuqc$3fb$1...@news.albasani.net>,

Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>On 5/15/18 10:43 AM, John McGaw wrote:
>>
>> I'll take it as read that you haven't driven a new Subaru CVT then. Mine
>> certainly suffers from none of the problems you describe except (and I
>> haven't tried it so I won't say) for being able to start out in second.
>> I certainly can press the X-mode button which does far more for
>> difficult starts than second gear. The new CVT certainly does
>> (simulated) upshifts in discreet steps and downshifts to 'passing gear'
>> if I stomp on it and I can override the automation entirely and use the
>> paddles if I choose to but seldom do except by way of experimentation.
>
>A pale imitation of the real thing!

I used to own a Porsche 944, and I certainly will never mistake the
controlability of my Outback for that, but it sounds like you haven't
even tried to take advantage of the shifting that is available in a
CVT Subaru. In fact, it almost sounds as though you believe they can't
be manually shifted. Give it a try and then let us know your thoughts.


Patty

[Wade Garrett]

The only Subaru in the garage is my wife's Forester- and she's not
pleased when I get anywhere near its driver's seat.

If I tried to wring it out to see what it's capable of, the test drive
would probably need to end at a marriage counselor's or divorce lawyer's
office.

--
Giraffiti: Vandalism spray-painted very, very high

[Patty Winter]

In article <pdhcbo$6cg$1...@news.albasani.net>,

Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>
>The only Subaru in the garage is my wife's Forester- and she's not
>pleased when I get anywhere near its driver's seat.

So the only CVTs you've driven were not Subarus? I guess some other
manufacturers don't offer manual shifting with their automatic
transmissions. Well, Subaru does, so your experience with other
cars is causing you to make inaccurate assumptions about the Forester.


Patty

[Frank]

Sounds like me and my wife and we both have Foresters. I did let her
test drive my newer one and her only comment was that she did not like
it because it was bigger than hers. Said nothing about the CVT and I
had mentioned before that my brother who has the same Forester as me had
no comment on the CVT. He did not even take notice to it.
Like Patty says, you should test drive one.

[cameo]

I am trying to decide which of the following 3 models should I buy soon:
Impreza, Forrester or the new Crosstrek. My assigned parking garage
space does not allow me bigger models.

[Patty Winter]

In article <pdildc$67v$1...@dont-email.me>, cameo <ca...@unreal.invalid> wrote:
>
>I am trying to decide which of the following 3 models should I buy soon:
>Impreza, Forrester or the new Crosstrek. My assigned parking garage
>space does not allow me bigger models.

Those are three very different cars. How do you plan to use your new
car? How many people do you need room for? How much cargo room do you
need?


Patty

[abj...@sbcglobal.net]

On Wednesday, May 16, 2018 at 6:20:45 PM UTC-7, cameo wrote:

> I am trying to decide which of the following 3 models should I buy soon:
> Impreza, Forrester or the new Crosstrek. My assigned parking garage
> space does not allow me bigger models.

Generally speaking its good to look at the best
power to weight ratio. Cars are getting bigger
while engines not necessarily more powerful, or
power is not necessarily easily accessible (must
rev the engine higher to reach it).

The new Impreza is the same size as the old
1990's Legacy.

Basia

[Frank]

If my wife gets a new car, I am recommending that she look at the
Crosstrek since she does not like my new bigger Forester. As seniors,
getting in and out of the car is important to us. My advice is test
drive all 3 to see what suits you. I had met a woman that had an
Outback but traded it in for a Forester after test driving. My brother
had done the same thing.

I've been driving Foresters ever since the first model and cannot
compare with others.

[cameo]

I want to be flexible in that regard. Most of the time I will drive it
alone, but I also expect to have 3-4 passengers occasionly and some
cargo as well.

[cameo]

I am planning to test drive all 3 of them, of course. I just hope by
then they have the 2019 models around, too.

[Patty Winter]

If that's 3-4 passengers and cargo (e.g. luggage or camping equipment)
at the same time, the Impreza wagon would likely be too small for you.
The Subaru website says the cargo capacity of the Crosstrek is just a
bit bigger. The Forester has 50% more capacity than those two.

I once got two people, 3-4 suitcases, and two sets of skis into an Opel
GT, but if one expects such situations to occur frequently, one is better
off getting a larger car. :-) At least Subies have roof racks for skis...


Patty

[VanguardLH]

Test drives are often too short and don't encounter all the roads you
will drive upon. With a totally new vehicle, you may not recognize some
sounds that will pester you later, like how much wind noise the door
mirrors generate at highway speeds after driving for 10 minutes, or
more, so you can tell from where the noise originates.

Rather than a test drive, ask if you can "rent" the car for week. We've
done that with Subaru dealers. They'll take down all the same info as a
rental agency; however, we didn't have to put anything down. Test
drives lasting only maybe an hour don't show as much interest as does
renting or getting a loaner for a week. They know you're interested in
their brand and perhaps a model, or two. We didn't use the car for
driving to and from work but just during the mid-days or evenings to run
errands. We would make up errands to drive it twice per day, plus we
wanted to be driving outside of rush hour so we could focus on the car
rather than on the traffic. We would change up who would drive and who
would be the passenger (in the front and rear seats).

[VanguardLH]

Darryl Johnson wrote:

> Patty Winter wrote:

>
>> Wade Garrett wrote:
>>
>>> But I don't like driving a CVT which knocked Subaru off the prospect
>>> list for my new ride. The CVT is becoming much more prevalent among
>>> many manufacturers. I'm thinking I may end up needing to back to a
>>> stick shift;-)
>>
>> What don't you like about CVTs?
>

> I had a Ford Escape as a rental last fall. Hated the CVT. Reminded me
> a bit of an elastic band when you started from a stop. The engine
> would begin to rev and after a bit the car would start to move.

You sure you were not driving in the stop-start driving mode? When the
car stops (zero or very low RPM, your foot on the brake, no wheel
rotation), the engine is turned off. Yep, that's right, I'm not making
this up -- the engine goes OFF at a stop. If you idle long enough at
the stop, the engine periodically comes back on to recharge the battery
and then the engine goes off again. At really long red lights, the
engine might restart several times to prevent the battery from getting
too weak. When you release the brake and start to accelerate from a
stop, there is a lag until the engine restarts before you'll have power
to move. Your foot comes off the brake pedal, the transmission gets
re-engaged, and the engine has to rev up.

Some cities now mandate this driving mode to reduce pollution. Great
for mileage but not for responsiveness from a stop and I'm not sure that
all that stopping and starting of the engine has no additional wear on
the engine. How can a starter used twice a day, on average, (start at
home to go to work, start at work to go home) not wear and break faster
when it has to also restart the car after every red light going green?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Start-stop_system
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/08/automobiles/wheels/start-stop-technology-is-coming-to-cars-like-it-or-not.html

I also got a Ford Escape on my last vacation. Because I was not used to
the stop-start mode, I disliked the behavior. Of course, with rentals
there are no owner manuals. I had to do some web hunting to find the
button that disabled the feature so the engine stayed on at stops. On
vacation, I'm not trying to save on the cost of fuel; however, if it
were my daily commuter car, yeah, then I'd probably like the fuel
savings but the much higher starter wear could mean a shorter interval
to replace it.

What you describe for behavior when resuming from a stop sounds more
like the stop-start scheme than anything to do with the CVT.

[Patty Winter]

In article <14c2s74w...@v.nguard.lh>, VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>You sure you were not driving in the stop-start driving mode? When the
>car stops (zero or very low RPM, your foot on the brake, no wheel
>rotation), the engine is turned off. Yep, that's right, I'm not making
>this up -- the engine goes OFF at a stop. If you idle long enough at
>the stop, the engine periodically comes back on to recharge the battery
>and then the engine goes off again. At really long red lights, the
>engine might restart several times to prevent the battery from getting
>too weak. When you release the brake and start to accelerate from a
>stop, there is a lag until the engine restarts before you'll have power
>to move. Your foot comes off the brake pedal, the transmission gets
>re-engaged, and the engine has to rev up.
>
>Some cities now mandate this driving mode to reduce pollution. Great
>for mileage but not for responsiveness from a stop and I'm not sure that
>all that stopping and starting of the engine has no additional wear on
>the engine. How can a starter used twice a day, on average, (start at
>home to go to work, start at work to go home) not wear and break faster
>when it has to also restart the car after every red light going green?

Interesting. I hadn't heard of this technology. I just found this
article from AutoWeek:

http://autoweek.com/article/technology/what-auto-stop-start-autoweek-explains

It says that the starter and engine components are being re-engineered
to survive the additional startups. Sounds annoying, though.


Patty

[Frank]

I'm not certain but think all the '19's will have the Eye Sight system
as standard equipment. I would hold for them too.

[Darryl Johnson]

I have had the start/stop feature on BMWs and Audis, so I know whereof
you speak. The Escape I was given did not have this feature. Perhaps
you were given a more upscale model, or a newer model that had the
start/stop option.

I refer only to the fact that when I wanted to leave a stop, the
engine would rev and the car began to move, but much more slowly than
the engine revs would indicate. As if there was a rubber band that
took some time to wind up before it delivered full power to the wheels.

As I said in my original post on this topic: I have heard that Subaru
does have one of the better implementations of the CVT, including
having a pseudo manual shifting mode, and I am quite willing to
believe that this "rubber band" effect is not present on their vehicles.

[Darryl Johnson]

My BMW has an option to permanently disable the start/stop function. I
generally have it turned off, as it gets annoying in circumstances
such as trying to make a left turn at lights, where you want to be
able to move ahead as soon as there is a break in oncoming traffic
which may be only a few seconds or when you arrive at a red light that
turns green a few seconds later.

My Audi does not allow for turning the function off permanently, but
there is a button that turns it off. Unfortunately, the system resets
every time the car is started, so disabling the start/stop function
has become part of my start routine, like fastening my seatbelt.

And, to your last point: yes, the battery and starting system have
been significantly upgraded to withstand the more frequent use.

[John McGaw]

I've only seen an announcement for universal EyeSight for the 2019 Forester
although it may be there for the other models too. See:

https://newatlas.com/2019-subaru-forester-nyias/54028/

[Frank]

I think I saw it for the Crosstrek and Ascent too.

[VanguardLH]

Darryl Johnson wrote:

> As I said in my original post on this topic: I have heard that Subaru
> does have one of the better implementations of the CVT, including
> having a pseudo manual shifting mode, and I am quite willing to
> believe that this "rubber band" effect is not present on their vehicles.

The CVTs in Nissans have had a long history of complaints.
http://www.nissanproblems.com/trends/cvt/

This one notes the rubber band effect:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2018/01/are-cvt-transmissions-reliable-.html

And these folks discuss it:
https://www.quora.com/How-can-we-reduce-or-eliminate-the-rubber-band-effect-of-a-CVT-continuously-variable-transmission
Their cure is the age-old "step off the line" with higher RPMs: hold the
brake and rev the engine before taking off (usually in preparation for a
fast start from a red light). Seems like changing the tranny oil helps.

I have a 2018 Subaru Outback with a CVT. I haven't noticed the rubber
band effect. To be fair, I don't often drive that car. However, the
whole feel is different than I'm used to in my daily commuter car (2002
Subaru Legacy wagon with standard automatic tranny). Since neither is a
muscle car, I don't drive them that way. Nevertheless, the 2018 Subie
with its CVT seems more than sufficient when I stopped at a right-turn
entrance to a highway to let me get into traffic. I like it better than
my old 2002 but then I'm going to beat up and risk my oldie in rush-hour
traffic than my new baby.

If you're looking at off-the-line fast starts, quick 0-60 acceleration
with not hesitation, or otherwise gulping down the gas, and you must
have an automatic instead of a manual, maybe get a car with a DCT: 2
clutches, one for odd gears, one for even gears, for smooth acceleration
(no manual jerking) since there is no interruption of torque to the
wheels. Just don't use that car for commuting in the city or stalled in
rush-hour highway driving that moves slower than the frontage road.
It's your play car.

You might find this humorous:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OSDw-uyP98

One advantage of manuals is more torque can be delivered from engine to
wheels. All automatics have limits of the input torque they can handle
after which they will slip and get damaged. Manuals have a direct
gear-to-gear linkage. There is no direct linkage in automatics of any
kind. It's possible to damage an automatic, any type, if the input side
has more torque than the automatic can handle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fPZ9tmQmZQ

If you want to see inside Subaru's CVT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34hS9691L04

I've noticed drivers used to old or standard automatics don't like the
CVT will rev up and maintain an RPM as the car is accelerating. They're
used to the RPMs revving up, hitting a peak, there's a jolt to shift
gears, and RPMs start lower and rise again to the next shift point.
They're used to hearing the RPMs rev up as they accelerate, not the revs
go up immediately and then hang there throughout the acceleration.
Instead of feeling the revs and watching the RPM gauge, they should just
watch the speedometer to see the rate the car is accelerating. Forget
what you're used to sensing through your butt for its trained memory on
sensing how the standard automatics worked.

One thing about Subaru is that they will deny problems despite mountains
of evidence. Instead of putting in the sportier gasket that has ribs to
fit inside grooves in the engine block, they denied the problem until
forced and their solution was to use an engine leak in their "special"
coolant to plug the holes. I had to do that on my 2002 Subie Legacy.
Once the oil is noticed on the block, you need to get the gasket
replaced before coolant gets inside to ruin the pistons and cylinders.
Rather than retool their assembly line to use the better gasket, they
hid the truth and then went to a stopleak solution (rolls eyes). Subaru
is not immune to the antics evidenced by every auto maker to cover their
mistakes. While I like Subies, I didn't want to present a blind fantasy
view that they do no evil.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jensen/2017/07/07/facing-complaints-subaru-offers-extended-warranties-on-1-5-million-vehicles/#12bbd08279dc

Also see:

http://www.subarucomplaints.com/trends/cvt/

If the CVT stalling were admitted, the feds would force a recall and
repair of ALL models. By Subaru extending the warranty, they avoided
the high cost of the recall to repair all vehicles to only those where
the customers complained about a problem. In this case, being proactive
(recall repairs on all) would be far more expensive the being reactive
(warranty repairs on few). Subaru getting tricky again. From that
article, looks like I need to make sure to do the maintainence (fluid
change) on the CVT since I'm in the highest "pain rank". Luckily that
car is the one that gets the least mileage. CVTs require due deligence
on maintanence.

Now go do the same level of research on CVTs in other brands and you'll
find problems there, too. Nothing is perfect.

[abj...@sbcglobal.net]

On Friday, May 18, 2018 at 11:16:52 AM UTC-7, VanguardLH wrote:

> It's possible to damage an automatic, any type, if the input side
> has more torque than the automatic can handle.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fPZ9tmQmZQ

Ahh MRT Performance, great video!

I've heard a long time ago that the six cylinder
Subarus have a strengthened CVT that can handle
the big torque of the 3.6 liter engine.

> One thing about Subaru is that they will deny problems despite mountains
> of evidence.

I own two Subarus- live in a location were
they are very popular (Sierra Nevada) and
had some friends ask me if Subarus are
reliable and should they buy one. I try to
explain that "yes" they are very reliable, in
a sense that nothing breaks because of poor
quality, poor workmanship. Quality-wise
components are on par with Toyota, Honda,
Nissan but some specific areas have under-engineering
issues,

...are prone to give trouble or fail such
as wheel bearings, gaskets on old 2.5 EJ engines,
piston rings on high powered turbo cars. These
problematic areas can give trouble and frequently
do, but overall Subaru's are very and good
quality-wise.

A lot of failures are related to modifications
made by owners or abuse. Subarus particularly WRX'es
are very frequently modified and abuses by their
enthusiast owners.

Very frequently Subarus encounter severe service,
such as high speed mountainous driving, and that
can also take a toll on the drivetrain. I've
personally replaced wheel bearings on my Impreza
six times in 18 years, but it is not Subarus fault
but normal wear given my driving style. I drive fast
on curvy mountainous roads. To stay within speed
limits, avoid speeding tickets I tend to accelerate,
try to maintain high speed on steep inclines, that puts
a lot of stress on drivetrain.

If I where to buy a CVT I am sure I would encounter
some problems. My regular Auto with is equipped
with an oversized transmission cooler, has cooling
fins put on trannsmission fitler and so it has been
coping splendidly with my demands. Has more that
125k miles of tortuous driving. Speaks very well
of Subaru quality.

Basia

[cameo]

Do Subarus have a disable function for that start-stop function?
I wouldn't like to drive with it.

[cameo]

Why can't Subarus make the wheel bearings the way Honda does. My '94
Accord never needed bearing change.

[cameo]

What month are expected the next year models in showrooms?

[John McGaw]

Subaru doesn't have start-stop so I guess you could say it is permanently
disabled from the factory.

[Patty Winter]

In article <1px9qknxjfz3n$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>I have a 2018 Subaru Outback with a CVT. I haven't noticed the rubber
>band effect.

Every so often, my 2013 Outback seems a big sluggish coming out of a
stop. I'll pay more attention and try to determine under what conditions
that happens.

>You might find this humorous:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OSDw-uyP98

Hah, that guy is funny.

For those who just want the CVT part, it starts here:

https://youtu.be/4OSDw-uyP98?t=11m32s


Patty

[Patty Winter]

In article <e6f3833a-eff5-4014...@googlegroups.com>,

ba...@sbcglobal.net <abj...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>I own two Subarus- live in a location were
>they are very popular (Sierra Nevada)

Back in 1994 when I got my first Subaru, I spent a couple of
weeks in Truckee. Even back then, when Subies weren't nearly
as popular in the U.S. as they are now, the Safeway parking
lot in Truckee looked like a Subaru dealership. :-)


Patty

[abj...@sbcglobal.net]

I don't know.

Maybe four wheel drive puts some additional stress
on bearings and that is why they tend not to last
in Subaru's. I can't see how that could be but I
am not a mechanic.

When I first test drove a Subaru I noticed
a very slight, almost imperceivable jerkiness
on road imperfections. Did not even realize
at first what it was, only later. It is known
to be related to four wheel drive, more specifically
to how shifts in torque occur between front and
rear axles (in cars that have the variable torque
distribition feature with automatic transmissions.
Manual tranny's are 50/50 front/rear fixed, i believe).

I suspect this may have something to do with
wheel bearing wear, but honestly don't know.

I've just become resigned to this issue, and
treat it as normal wear given my higher speed,
up/down mountainous, heavy cornering driving.
There's plenty of minor road imperfections
where I drive too.

Basia

[Frank]

I just looked at my local dealer's on line inventory and saw no '19's
there. Ascent is supposed to be there but it just says to call them as
none are listed in inventory. When I bought my Forester 2 years ago I
found it in the inventory before I want in. Asked for it, test drove
and bought it. I noticed he has over 60 2018 Foresters so may not be in
a hurry to sell the '19's.

[VanguardLH]

cameo wrote:

> Do Subarus have a disable function for that start-stop function?
> I wouldn't like to drive with it.

As far as I know (which isn't godly despite how arrogant I may appear),
Subies don't have the stop-start driving mode ... yet, well, that's in
my region. They might be forced to add it if cities/states get more
rigorous on their emissions since the stop-start mode reduces emissions
a lot as it allow the car makers to game the MPG calculations under
driving conditions you will never encounter. All that time idling
(going nowhere) just pukes out fumes while providing zero MPG, so, yeah,
they figured why the hell not turn off the engine, and it's "fuck you"
if you don't like the behavior.

I just did an online search on "subaru stop start drive mode" and found:

https://www.subaru-global.com/technology/environment/eco-driving.html

Click on the "Auto Stop Start" tab. I clicked on the More link but
Subaru doesn't list which models have it or in which models the driving
mode is planned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga9QsbEqOzE
Dated 2016-Sep-19. Shows the Impreza. Whether the feature is available
in your region depends on how Subaru decides to market it. I've read
the 2019 Forester is going to have the auto stop-start system.

http://www.jdpower.com/cars/articles/new-car-previews/2019-subaru-forester-preview
"An updated 2.5-liter 4-cylinder engine with direct fuel injection and
automatic stop/start technology is standard for the 2019 Forester."

I a forum, a guy claimed that if towing a trailer that the auto
stop-start system is disabled. That is, you don't have to keep turning
it back off when you next turn on your car for its next trip. His idea
was to create a dummy trailer plug that had sufficient load to represent
what a trailer would draw (lights, electric brakes). Another mentioned
there is a reed switch in the cover flap of the trailer plug: when the
flap is open then the reed switch opens figuring a plug has been
inserted from a trailer, so snip the reed switch or prop open the flap
(which leave it open to corrosion when not in use) to keep the reed
switch in the open state. I don't have a Subie with auto stop-start to
test out the suggestions. Also, cars can be retrofitted with remote
starters. Well, if the car is going to automatically stop (shut off the
engine) because it is sitting idle then how would remote starters work
if the engine doesn't keep running to warm it up so the car is ready for
your comfort upon later entry. There must be some workaround. Maybe
it's just a fuse you have to pull.

One user responded that the starter is beefier or somehow designed to
handle all the extra starting when auto stop-start mode is active and
when it has to perform a lot (city driving or grid-locked rush-hour
highway). However, I can't see how the starters yet available can
handle more than 50 times the number of starts per day than does the
standard starter. It's a huge change in number of starts.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109687_dont-start-stop-systems-wear-out-your-cars-starter

That says No to the question of start-stop starters wearing out faster.
I don't how prevalent are auto stop-start systems in American cars
(whether they claim to be American or are just assembled in America or
get shipped there). I suspect we have to wait another 10 years before
sufficient data accumulates to know for sure, or until the auto makers
are forced to release repair logs. While the article mentions how to
preserve the life of the starter's motor, it made no mention that
somehow the flywheel with its teeth or the mesh gear on the starter have
been made of harder (but not more brittle) metal to endure to extra wear
due to tons of lot more starts. The starter system is more than just
the windings for the motor and its bushing and brushes.

Here's that funny guy again talking about auto stop-start systems:
https://youtu.be/k159M8QhCIE?t=8
(go to timemark 5:40 where he lambasts Subaru for lack of an off switch)

[cameo]

I am interested buying one in August or September.

[Patty Winter]

In article <pdnq8n$gq4$1...@dont-email.me>, Frank <fr...@frank.net> wrote:
>On 5/18/2018 7:22 PM, cameo wrote:

[unneeded quotage deleted]

>> What month are expected the next year models in showrooms?
>
>I just looked at my local dealer's on line inventory and saw no '19's
>there. Ascent is supposed to be there but it just says to call them as
>none are listed in inventory.

The latest issue of Drive magazine said "Summer" for the Ascent.


Patty

[Frank]

I would imagine all the '19's would be available by then. Don't know
what options you want or what kind of deal you are getting but in my
personal situation I would like the Eye Sight system without things like
a sun roof that you need to get it as an option.

[Frank]

We have a family friend at SOA who puts a lot of advanced stuff on his
Facebook page. Subaru also has a page where these things might be seen
sooner.

[Patty Winter]

In article <pdpjkl$rmu$2...@dont-email.me>, Frank <fr...@frank.net> wrote:
>On 5/18/2018 11:10 PM, Patty Winter wrote:
>>
>> The latest issue of Drive magazine said "Summer" for the Ascent.
>>

>We have a family friend at SOA who puts a lot of advanced stuff on his
>Facebook page. Subaru also has a page where these things might be seen
>sooner.

The Subaru website has full details about the Ascent now, including
the ability to configure one to your wishes. There just aren't any
in showrooms yet.


Patty

[abj...@sbcglobal.net]

:)))
Yes you remember corectly. Back in 1989 when I
first visited the area it was Jeeps, AMC Eagles,
and Subaru's. There weren't any other 4 wheel
drive offerings. Ford Bronco with optional 4
wheel drive, I think, something from GMC (?)
I forget. SUV's were almost non-existent then.

Haven't seen many Suzuki Samurai's. It was very
popular in Arizona at the time.

Basia

> Patty