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Can aluminum alloy rims be heavier than steel?
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Yousuf Khan
Dec 5, 2014, 8:47:48 AM12/5/14
to
Well, the winter is starting to get deep here in Canada again. So as
Canadians, a lot of us go in for our annual tradition of changing into
winter tires. Usually our tires are already pre-inflated and mounted on
winter steel rims (saves time and money, compared to remounting tires on
the original factory rims). So part of the tradition involves lugging
these heavy wheels from wherever you store them, into the trunk of the
Subaru and then driving them to the tire changing place.
So when I was lugging the winter wheels vs. when I was lugging the
summer wheels, I noticed there was a definitely noticeable difference in
weight (determined through my own aching back, but not really using any
official weight scales). And to my surprise, it seemed that the winter
wheels were lighter, even though they were steel wheels! I had a much
more difficult time lifting the summer alloy wheels.
Now assuming that the winter and summer tires are more or less equal in
weight, and assuming that they both had more or less the same air
pressure inside. I could only think of the rims as being the biggest
contributor to the weight difference. I believe the factory rims for my
Tribeca are aluminum alloy, whereas the winter rims are cheap black
steel rims. Now why would the aluminum-based rims be heavier than the
steel ones?
On a side note, I also find that the simple unstyled steel rims hold
their air better than the alloy ones. I've measured the air pressure on
these winter rims year after year, and they barely lose even 1 psi over
several years, but the alloy rims require a reinflation almost on a
monthly basis; they'll lose as much as 5 psi over a couple of months. So
thank god for the tire pressure monitoring systems on these modern cars!
Yousuf Khan
Canadians, a lot of us go in for our annual tradition of changing into
winter tires. Usually our tires are already pre-inflated and mounted on
winter steel rims (saves time and money, compared to remounting tires on
the original factory rims). So part of the tradition involves lugging
these heavy wheels from wherever you store them, into the trunk of the
Subaru and then driving them to the tire changing place.
So when I was lugging the winter wheels vs. when I was lugging the
summer wheels, I noticed there was a definitely noticeable difference in
weight (determined through my own aching back, but not really using any
official weight scales). And to my surprise, it seemed that the winter
wheels were lighter, even though they were steel wheels! I had a much
more difficult time lifting the summer alloy wheels.
Now assuming that the winter and summer tires are more or less equal in
weight, and assuming that they both had more or less the same air
pressure inside. I could only think of the rims as being the biggest
contributor to the weight difference. I believe the factory rims for my
Tribeca are aluminum alloy, whereas the winter rims are cheap black
steel rims. Now why would the aluminum-based rims be heavier than the
steel ones?
On a side note, I also find that the simple unstyled steel rims hold
their air better than the alloy ones. I've measured the air pressure on
these winter rims year after year, and they barely lose even 1 psi over
several years, but the alloy rims require a reinflation almost on a
monthly basis; they'll lose as much as 5 psi over a couple of months. So
thank god for the tire pressure monitoring systems on these modern cars!
Yousuf Khan
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Dec 5, 2014, 12:19:32 PM12/5/14
to
depending on the design. Steel weighs about 2.5 times as much as
aluminum, so as long as the aluminum wheel is not, on average, more
than 2.5 times as thick as the steel wheel, it will be lighter.
So it comes down to how thick is the steel rim, and how chunky is the
alloy rim. The 16 inch steel Fusion rims I took off my brother's 07
Fusion were definitely heavier than my Eagle Alloy Torque Thrust
clones off my Ranger - which are also lighter than the Hyundai Alloys
for my daughter's Elantra.
The steel rims from the ranger are SIGNIFICANTLY lighter than the
steel rims from the Fusion.
So the answer is yes or no, depending on both the steel wheel and the
alloy wheel.
John McGaw
Dec 5, 2014, 2:59:47 PM12/5/14
to
make the combination tire + steel wheel weigh more than the combinaton
summer tire + alloy wheel? You can't really tell without weighing each
component individually but when I replaced a couple of dinged OEM alloys a
couple of years ago they seemed pretty light to me.
Yousuf Khan
Dec 5, 2014, 4:58:58 PM12/5/14
to
On 05/12/2014 2:59 PM, John McGaw wrote:
> Couldn't it just be that the 'winter' tires are sufficiently heavier to
> make the combination tire + steel wheel weigh more than the combinaton
> summer tire + alloy wheel? You can't really tell without weighing each
> component individually but when I replaced a couple of dinged OEM alloys
> a couple of years ago they seemed pretty light to me.
You got it backwards, the winter + steel combo was *lighter* than the
> Couldn't it just be that the 'winter' tires are sufficiently heavier to
> make the combination tire + steel wheel weigh more than the combinaton
> summer tire + alloy wheel? You can't really tell without weighing each
> component individually but when I replaced a couple of dinged OEM alloys
> a couple of years ago they seemed pretty light to me.
summer + alloy. That's why I'm asking this question, I would normally
assume that the alloys should be lighter, being made from mostly aluminium.
I would've also assumed that the winter tires are heavier (perhaps more
ruggedly built?) than the summer tires, by themselves. So the
combination of winter tires & steel rims had me thinking that there's no
way that the winter combo was going to be lighter.
Yousuf Khan
Your Name
Dec 5, 2014, 5:02:23 PM12/5/14
to
In article <5481b783$1...@news.bnb-lp.com>, Yousuf Khan
about 5psi or so over the week and then seemed to stay at that level. I
couldn't see anything wrong with the tyre from what I get at, but
eventually discovered it had a puncture after removing it from the car.
<bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> On a side note, I also find that the simple unstyled steel rims hold
> their air better than the alloy ones. I've measured the air pressure on
> these winter rims year after year, and they barely lose even 1 psi over
> several years, but the alloy rims require a reinflation almost on a
> monthly basis; they'll lose as much as 5 psi over a couple of months. So
> thank god for the tire pressure monitoring systems on these modern cars!
I had a tyre that needing re-inflating on a weekly basis. It only lost
>
> On a side note, I also find that the simple unstyled steel rims hold
> their air better than the alloy ones. I've measured the air pressure on
> these winter rims year after year, and they barely lose even 1 psi over
> several years, but the alloy rims require a reinflation almost on a
> monthly basis; they'll lose as much as 5 psi over a couple of months. So
> thank god for the tire pressure monitoring systems on these modern cars!
about 5psi or so over the week and then seemed to stay at that level. I
couldn't see anything wrong with the tyre from what I get at, but
eventually discovered it had a puncture after removing it from the car.
Yousuf Khan
Dec 5, 2014, 5:11:25 PM12/5/14
to
On 05/12/2014 12:19 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> A styled alloy wheel can be heavier than a plain steel wheel,
> depending on the design. Steel weighs about 2.5 times as much as
> aluminum, so as long as the aluminum wheel is not, on average, more
> than 2.5 times as thick as the steel wheel, it will be lighter.
> So it comes down to how thick is the steel rim, and how chunky is the
> alloy rim. The 16 inch steel Fusion rims I took off my brother's 07
> Fusion were definitely heavier than my Eagle Alloy Torque Thrust
> clones off my Ranger - which are also lighter than the Hyundai Alloys
> for my daughter's Elantra.
> The steel rims from the ranger are SIGNIFICANTLY lighter than the
> steel rims from the Fusion.
>
> So the answer is yes or no, depending on both the steel wheel and the
> alloy wheel.
These are the style of OEM alloy rims that I have on my Tribeca (this
> A styled alloy wheel can be heavier than a plain steel wheel,
> depending on the design. Steel weighs about 2.5 times as much as
> aluminum, so as long as the aluminum wheel is not, on average, more
> than 2.5 times as thick as the steel wheel, it will be lighter.
> So it comes down to how thick is the steel rim, and how chunky is the
> alloy rim. The 16 inch steel Fusion rims I took off my brother's 07
> Fusion were definitely heavier than my Eagle Alloy Torque Thrust
> clones off my Ranger - which are also lighter than the Hyundai Alloys
> for my daughter's Elantra.
> The steel rims from the ranger are SIGNIFICANTLY lighter than the
> steel rims from the Fusion.
>
> So the answer is yes or no, depending on both the steel wheel and the
> alloy wheel.
car pictured on here would be an identical twin to my own Tribeca,
including the colour):
http://image.trucktrend.com/f/vehicle-reviews/the-underdog-midsize-suv-subaru-tribeca/7041578+w700+cr1+re0+ar1/2008-subaru-tribeca.jpg
The steel rims pictured here, would be somewhat similar to my own winter
rims (18-in though):
http://www.bmwreplicawheels.ca/images/Steel-Wheel.jpg
It looks like the steel rims are basically just pressed sheet metal.
They have a similar thickness all around.
Whereas the alloy wheels are thicker at the "spokes", and even the rims
seem fairly thick. I suppose they need the extra thickness to match the
strength of the steel. So it seems that the weight savings of the
aluminium is undone by having to make these things much thicker.
Yousuf Khan
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Dec 5, 2014, 8:08:46 PM12/5/14
to
the weights of wheels used on Mazda Miatas.
Their 14 inch steel wheel weighs 18 lbs.
The 7 spoke alloy is 12.3 lbs.
The BBS spoke style alloy is 9-10lbs.
The later 7 spoke alloys range from 10.8 to 11.5 depending on the
spoke design (hollow, semi hollow or solid.
The 16" snowflake style SE alloy is the porker of their alloys at
18lb.
Yousuf Khan
Dec 6, 2014, 2:14:06 AM12/6/14
to
amount of air in equal amounts (more or less) over the same course of
time. Unless all four wheels have the same puncture.
Yousuf Khan
weelliott
Dec 6, 2014, 12:12:38 PM12/6/14
to
A few things...
I've experienced the same phenomenon with steel wheels holding air better with two different sets of steel wheels and many alloy ones. I theorize that it's either how clean the bead was when the tires were mounted as the material, or the smoothness of the rim. Steel wheels have a nice glossy painted surface to seal against whereas aluminum rims have a bare metal machined surface that probably isn't quite as imperfection free on a microscopic level.
As for tire weights, I'd say it is not safe to assume that the tires are the same weight. The heaviest tires I've ever owned were summer high performance tires. They were like bricks. The stiff sidewalls I suspect had much to do with it. I don't know if snow tires are purposely built with softer sidewalls, or even if they're above or below average, but I wouldn't be surprised if thins sidewalls were the case to help the tire comply to irregular surfaces to maximize the amount the footprint. Just a theory on that though.
Have a good one,
Bill
I've experienced the same phenomenon with steel wheels holding air better with two different sets of steel wheels and many alloy ones. I theorize that it's either how clean the bead was when the tires were mounted as the material, or the smoothness of the rim. Steel wheels have a nice glossy painted surface to seal against whereas aluminum rims have a bare metal machined surface that probably isn't quite as imperfection free on a microscopic level.
As for tire weights, I'd say it is not safe to assume that the tires are the same weight. The heaviest tires I've ever owned were summer high performance tires. They were like bricks. The stiff sidewalls I suspect had much to do with it. I don't know if snow tires are purposely built with softer sidewalls, or even if they're above or below average, but I wouldn't be surprised if thins sidewalls were the case to help the tire comply to irregular surfaces to maximize the amount the footprint. Just a theory on that though.
Have a good one,
Bill
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Dec 6, 2014, 12:36:42 PM12/6/14
to
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 02:14:12 -0500, Yousuf Khan
2 very common causes of slow and predictable air loss are rim leaks
and valve stem leaks. These can both happen just as easily on steel or
aluminum rims. Break the beads, remove the valve stems, clean the
metal around the stem hole well on both sides and the hole, and paint
with a good paint. Chassis enamel or Por15 work best. Then put a very
light coat of silicone grease on the stem and pop it in, or do what
I've resorted to - buy good threaded in stems.
As far as bead leaks are concerned, clean up the beads with sandpaper,
wire brush, or prep-disk and paint them with a good paint as above. On
aluminum using a good etch primer like Zinc Chromate never
hurts.Cleran the rubber bead of the tire - Slop the bead of the tire
with vegatable soap (Ru-Glyde) and install.
A less common cause of leakage is "rim" leaks - pourous castings.
In this case, cleaning the entire surface of the rim (that would be
inside the tire and holding the air) and painting it with the same
good paint (and primer) generally solves the problem.
Then there are the tires that just ooze air - airstops fix them -
sometimes a "slime" will help - but generally it's just best to throw
the crap away and buy good tires.
and valve stem leaks. These can both happen just as easily on steel or
aluminum rims. Break the beads, remove the valve stems, clean the
metal around the stem hole well on both sides and the hole, and paint
with a good paint. Chassis enamel or Por15 work best. Then put a very
light coat of silicone grease on the stem and pop it in, or do what
I've resorted to - buy good threaded in stems.
As far as bead leaks are concerned, clean up the beads with sandpaper,
wire brush, or prep-disk and paint them with a good paint as above. On
aluminum using a good etch primer like Zinc Chromate never
hurts.Cleran the rubber bead of the tire - Slop the bead of the tire
with vegatable soap (Ru-Glyde) and install.
A less common cause of leakage is "rim" leaks - pourous castings.
In this case, cleaning the entire surface of the rim (that would be
inside the tire and holding the air) and painting it with the same
good paint (and primer) generally solves the problem.
Then there are the tires that just ooze air - airstops fix them -
sometimes a "slime" will help - but generally it's just best to throw
the crap away and buy good tires.
Yousuf Khan
Dec 6, 2014, 4:48:53 PM12/6/14
to
On 06/12/2014 12:12 PM, weelliott wrote:
> A few things...
>
> I've experienced the same phenomenon with steel wheels holding air
> better with two different sets of steel wheels and many alloy ones.
> I theorize that it's either how clean the bead was when the tires
> were mounted as the material, or the smoothness of the rim. Steel
> wheels have a nice glossy painted surface to seal against whereas
> aluminum rims have a bare metal machined surface that probably isn't
> quite as imperfection free on a microscopic level.
That does make sense, the alloy rims are bare metal, whereas the steel
> A few things...
>
> I've experienced the same phenomenon with steel wheels holding air
> better with two different sets of steel wheels and many alloy ones.
> I theorize that it's either how clean the bead was when the tires
> were mounted as the material, or the smoothness of the rim. Steel
> wheels have a nice glossy painted surface to seal against whereas
> aluminum rims have a bare metal machined surface that probably isn't
> quite as imperfection free on a microscopic level.
ones are painted metal. Perhaps better seals between rim and bead!
> As for tire weights, I'd say it is not safe to assume that the tires
> are the same weight. The heaviest tires I've ever owned were summer
> high performance tires. They were like bricks. The stiff sidewalls I
> suspect had much to do with it. I don't know if snow tires are
> purposely built with softer sidewalls, or even if they're above or
> below average, but I wouldn't be surprised if thins sidewalls were
> the case to help the tire comply to irregular surfaces to maximize
> the amount the footprint. Just a theory on that though.
HP's, whereas the winter tires are H-rated Toyo Observe's. The V-rated
would be harder sidewalls?
Maybe you've answered both my questions in go!
Yousuf Khan
John McGaw
Dec 6, 2014, 7:31:53 PM12/6/14
to
determine the weight on the maker's website. Weighing a sample of each type
mounted on their respective wheels would allow you to answer the 'how
heavy?' question definitively. As for air loss, I've seen some alloys what
had nothing but bare cast metal showing on the inside and any porosity
could certainly allow a slow leak. I've never experienced it myself on
several different vehicles with alloys though.
Your Name
Dec 6, 2014, 9:09:41 PM12/6/14
to
In article <548379c3$1...@news.bnb-lp.com>, Yousuf Khan
Air leaks can also be caused by a bad fitter putting the tyre onto the
rims.
rims.
Yousuf Khan
Dec 10, 2014, 7:41:15 AM12/10/14
to
On 06/12/2014 7:31 PM, John McGaw wrote:
> Knowing the size and model of the tires should make it relatively easy
> to determine the weight on the maker's website. Weighing a sample of
> each type mounted on their respective wheels would allow you to answer
> the 'how heavy?' question definitively. As for air loss, I've seen some
> alloys what had nothing but bare cast metal showing on the inside and
> any porosity could certainly allow a slow leak. I've never experienced
> it myself on several different vehicles with alloys though.
I didn't think the makers put tire mass figures on their websites?
> Knowing the size and model of the tires should make it relatively easy
> to determine the weight on the maker's website. Weighing a sample of
> each type mounted on their respective wheels would allow you to answer
> the 'how heavy?' question definitively. As for air loss, I've seen some
> alloys what had nothing but bare cast metal showing on the inside and
> any porosity could certainly allow a slow leak. I've never experienced
> it myself on several different vehicles with alloys though.
Anyways, the tires are 255/55R18.
Yousuf Khan
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Dec 10, 2014, 2:40:11 PM12/10/14
to
given size tire, see the following table:
http://www.miata.net/faq/tire_weights.html
17.8 to 24.3 lbs for 205/45/16, 14.5 to 20.1 for 185/60/14. In this
case the BG Gooderich TA was one of the heaviest, The Hoosier Sport
DOT was the lightest.
Yousuf Khan
Apr 11, 2015, 12:31:26 AM4/11/15
to
Well, sorry to drag this old thread out of the grave, but today was time
for the opposite change over, where I changed over from my winter tires
& rims back to my summer tires & rims. Back when the original thread was
posted, I didn't do any actual measurements, just based it on "the
strain on my aching back" measurements. This time I actually got a
chance to do the measurements. I used a weight gauge designed to measure
luggage weights and I got the following average weights:
Summer tire & rim: 29.5 kg (65 lbs)
Winter tire & rim: 28 kg (62 lbs)
So it wasn't my imagination, the summer tires seem to actually be
heavier, even though they come with alloy rims and the winter tires are
using old-fashioned steel.
Yousuf Khan
for the opposite change over, where I changed over from my winter tires
& rims back to my summer tires & rims. Back when the original thread was
posted, I didn't do any actual measurements, just based it on "the
strain on my aching back" measurements. This time I actually got a
chance to do the measurements. I used a weight gauge designed to measure
luggage weights and I got the following average weights:
Summer tire & rim: 29.5 kg (65 lbs)
Winter tire & rim: 28 kg (62 lbs)
So it wasn't my imagination, the summer tires seem to actually be
heavier, even though they come with alloy rims and the winter tires are
using old-fashioned steel.
Yousuf Khan
John McGaw
Apr 12, 2015, 7:31:04 PM4/12/15
to
On 4/11/2015 12:31 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
> Well, sorry to drag this old thread out of the grave, but today was time
> for the opposite change over, where I changed over from my winter tires &
> rims back to my summer tires & rims. Back when the original thread was
> posted, I didn't do any actual measurements, just based it on "the strain
> on my aching back" measurements. This time I actually got a chance to do
> the measurements. I used a weight gauge designed to measure luggage weights
> and I got the following average weights:
>
> Summer tire & rim: 29.5 kg (65 lbs)
> Winter tire & rim: 28 kg (62 lbs)
>
> So it wasn't my imagination, the summer tires seem to actually be heavier,
> even though they come with alloy rims and the winter tires are using
> old-fashioned steel.
>
> Yousuf Khan
>
snip...
> Well, sorry to drag this old thread out of the grave, but today was time
> for the opposite change over, where I changed over from my winter tires &
> rims back to my summer tires & rims. Back when the original thread was
> posted, I didn't do any actual measurements, just based it on "the strain
> on my aching back" measurements. This time I actually got a chance to do
> the measurements. I used a weight gauge designed to measure luggage weights
> and I got the following average weights:
>
> Summer tire & rim: 29.5 kg (65 lbs)
> Winter tire & rim: 28 kg (62 lbs)
>
> So it wasn't my imagination, the summer tires seem to actually be heavier,
> even though they come with alloy rims and the winter tires are using
> old-fashioned steel.
>
> Yousuf Khan
>
Of course that doesn't really answer the question of how relatively heavy
the types of rims are since the tires themselves are not identical. It
could simply be that the summer tires weigh more. No getting around it, the
only way to know for sure (if it actually mattered) is to weigh the rims.
BTW, I find it unintuitive that either type weighs that much -- I would
have guessed closer to 20kg than to 30 based on how they feel to move around.
Yousuf Khan
Apr 13, 2015, 5:13:58 PM4/13/15
to
On 12/04/2015 7:30 PM, John McGaw wrote:
> Of course that doesn't really answer the question of how relatively
> heavy the types of rims are since the tires themselves are not
> identical. It could simply be that the summer tires weigh more. No
> getting around it, the only way to know for sure (if it actually
> mattered) is to weigh the rims. BTW, I find it unintuitive that either
> type weighs that much -- I would have guessed closer to 20kg than to 30
> based on how they feel to move around.
These are huge Tribeca wheels, 255/55/18's. So I don't think they are
> Of course that doesn't really answer the question of how relatively
> heavy the types of rims are since the tires themselves are not
> identical. It could simply be that the summer tires weigh more. No
> getting around it, the only way to know for sure (if it actually
> mattered) is to weigh the rims. BTW, I find it unintuitive that either
> type weighs that much -- I would have guessed closer to 20kg than to 30
> based on how they feel to move around.
typical. It's also why my back is so sensitive to their weights.
Yousuf Khan
robroy habich
Dec 4, 2023, 6:10:24 AM12/4/23
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