Plug wire routing
Lark Bill
other Studebaker neophytes like myself. All the old timers are going to
say "Duh", but I can't be the first to have this problem. My Lark's 259
has had a fluffy idle since I first ran it. Good compression, (for
109,000 mi.)even anyway, good ignition after I replaced everything
including the plug wires the kangaroo rats ate, carb idle circuits
clean and responding to adjustment. Then I saw the engine pictures
posted on the NG and a bell went off. A check of my Chiltons confirmed
it. Stude and Chev V8s are numbered and fired the same (Chev copied?),
it was a parisitic induction voltage loss problem! Or if you prefer,
crossfire. I hope this helps someone else chasing a problem they can't
find. All the Chev guys are laughing now, but I can claim some
innocence here as most of my experience has been on inline and flat 4s
and 6s and most of my V8 time on Ford FEs, so it wasn't a common
problem to me.
Lark Bill
'59 Lark Regal 4 dr.
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regina fox
Where did U C pix of the engine compartment of a 59 on NG ?
I 2 have a 59 and would like 2 C a good pix(s) so I can C
where wires, hoses and other items belong.
Can U E them 2 me?
God Bless Jim (ihavea59LarkHTv8butlooking4another1)
William Swain
About seven years ago I ran into a problem with my 51 commander and
the firing order. Being new to Studebakers at the time. Now then the
cylinders are numbered the same and the firing order is the same but one
major difference, studebakers rotate counter-clockwise and chevy's
rotate clockwise. This is a big difference ... trust me on this one.
Bill Swain
Lark Bill
labeled '57 and it appeared to be out of a supercharged Hawk. What I
noticed was that the wires to cyls. #3&5 were not run in front to back
order, a la Chev. V8s. If this is not done firing voltage can bleed
through induction to the adjacent wire because that cyl. is at a place
in it's cycle where plug resistance is low. There are several ways to
fire a V8 and some firing orders don't produce this phenomenon. I
noticed that Chev. changed the firing order on the new Vortec engines
for a smoother idle, but now there is no dist. so crossfire was no
longer a problem. The phenomenon isn't dependant on the crankshaft
rotation diraction, but rather the proximity of plug wires of certain
cylinders in the firing order.
If you need a picture of a '59 Lark engine comparment I'd be happy to
photograph mine for you. I think it is pretty close to original,
luckily the rats only dined on the plug wires and not the harness.
Lark Bill
regina fox
At your convenience I would appreciate some good shots
of the 59 engine compartment
Thanks God Bless Jim
Lark Bill
Chev. Van. Both crankshfts turn clockwise viewed from the front. Are
you thinking camshafts, because being gear driven the Stude does turn
backwards. I just noticed the fan turns backwards on my Chev,
serpentine belt drives the fan and water pump off the back, wonder if
they had to modify the pump?
Lark Bill
the camera. Send me your snailmail address and I'll see that you get
the sharpest possible prints. I don't have a digital camera and haven't
been impressed with film to digital scans. who...@juno.com
William Swain
clear enough.
Lark Bill wrote:
>
> Wow, you had me worried there for a moment. Checked my Lark and my '96
> Chev. Van. Both crankshfts turn clockwise viewed from the front. Are
> you thinking camshafts, because being gear driven the Stude does turn
> backwards. I just noticed the fan turns backwards on my Chev,
> serpentine belt drives the fan and water pump off the back, wonder if
> they had to modify the pump?
William Swain
order on a small block v-8 is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 for Studebaker, Chevy, &
Dodge since they number the cylinders the same 1,3,5,7 left bank (driver
side) and 2,4,6,8 right bank. Now then there is Ford 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 but
they number the cylinders different 1,2,3,4 right bank and 5,6,7,8 left
bank. If you number a ford the same as a chevy it would be
2-1-8-4-3-6-5-7. Does this number look familiar? It should the only
difference is that Ford starts their firing on the right bank instead of
the left bank. As for the rotation of the crankshaft it is in the
clockwise direction, the cam will be clockwise if a timing belt is used
or a three gear direct drive setup. Thus causing the rotor to rotate in
the clockwise direction. If a direct drive setup(2 gears) is used the
rotor will rotate counter-clockwise, as in the Studebaker engine. This
is generally speaking there are a few engines which have the gears
meshed differently allowing the rotor to rotate in the other direction.
Bill Swain
ANT The Monarch of Menace
looms (on the valve covers) than really needs to be done. This can be ugly, and
will cost you points if you enter your car for judging. The simple and neat
solution is just to arrange the wires for the 2 left rear cylinders (5 & 7) so
that they cross at one point. Don't mix up the firing order itself, just let
the wires pass over themselves. Do this only once as otherwise you'll end up
eliminating the induction cancelling effect. I prefer to cross the wires up
near the dist cap as it's less noticeble there. Just my 2 centavos. -ANT
PS Stude as well as chevy (and others) use the 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 firing order.
The difference is the direction of rotation of the cam (and distributor)--not
the engine! Note that there are only 2 plugs that are physically adjacent to
each other that fire sequentially. THESE are the problem children.
Front
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
http://hometown.aol.com/s2dee/FirstAttemptWebsite.html
'61 Cruiser Hot Rod "Aah Ooh Gah!"
'59 Lark Regal 4 door
'60 Lark 2 door
'60 Lark convertible
'64 Daytona 4 door
'64 Cruiser 4 door parts car (parts available)
William Swain
James LarkVIII/Myersville MD
FAQ's.While we're on the subject,do you have a valid NAPA part number
for a plug wire set?The # listed in the old catologue changes to a 4 cyl
wire set and I had all 3 local NAPA's check...
ANT The Monarch of Menace wrote:
>
> Seems more people concern themselves with rerouting the wires thru the factory
> looms (on the valve covers) than really needs to be done. This can be ugly, and<snip>
Robert Kabchef
I think the wire set for a Mopar 318 is real close to a set for a
Stude V8. NOT absolutely certain tho. It's been awhile since I bought
a set and I'm not certain about it anymore.
Anyone else know for sure what readily available set fits a Stude
V8??? Here's another FAQ entry when we find out.
StudeBob Kabchef
Studefarmer Extrodinare
and his Five Parrot pit pals
Located: central California
,south of Fresno
60 Lark Conv.
57 Transtar PU
55 Speedster
In work:
51 Champion Biz cpe.
66 Wagonaire
63 Daytona
57 Silver Hawk
49 2R17
Sam Roberts
> V8??? Here's another FAQ entry when we find out.
Ask Ted Harbit, he has them, and that is where mine came from, as I
recall.
Wavy esses, Sam
Diane Cvetic and Robert Jones
bought was Motorcraft. They seem to be good wires for the money, but I
wish I could find a high quality set that is all black like NOS. Any
ideas?
Rob
Robert Kabchef wrote:
> James,
>
> I think the wire set for a Mopar 318 is real close to a set for a
> Stude V8. NOT absolutely certain tho. It's been awhile since I bought
> a set and I'm not certain about it anymore.
>
> Anyone else know for sure what readily available set fits a Stude
> V8??? Here's another FAQ entry when we find out.
>
ANT The Monarch of Menace
refund I swapped them for a set of wires. These are some off brand, but they
actually listed Stude! I haven't installed them yet so I dunt know how well
they fit. I can check to see what else the number fits by looking it up in the
catalog. I'm sure they don't fit ONLY Stude. -ANT
http://hometown.aol.com/s2dee/FirstAttemptWebsite.html
'61 Cruiser Hot Rod "Aah Ooh Gah!"
'59 Lark Regal 4 door
'60 Lark 2 door
'60 Lark convertible
'64 Daytona 4 door
Oldcarfart
>Stude V8.
the polysphere 318 ('65 is a good year) not the late model 318, just go buy a
universal set the color of your car.
ANT The Monarch of Menace
This engine was installed in Checkers. Here's a wacky deal that went sour.
Checker had signed a contract with Chrysler for them (Checker) to produce V8's
(Checker was, and still is, in the business of supplying all sorts of parts to
OEMs). Well at the last minute Chrysler pulled out, and Checker sued and won. I
always wondered why such a thing would happen. I think I may have an answer.
All this occured at about the same time that Stude went belly up. I think that
Chrysler bought lots of tooling etc at the "fire sale" in South Bend and
decided to continue building their own detonator eights. Anyone out there that
can shed some light on this? -ANT