Fuel pumps blues again...

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Studebaker George

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Jan 11, 2008, 1:42:01 PM1/11/08
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One more leaky POS pump on a fairly new engine...and it's a fairly new
pump... I have another new one on the shelf but I'm getting REAL
tired of replacing them or messing around with the pins, etc. I'm
also tired of cleaning up after they decide to take a pee all over
everything. Ordered a Carter from SI; IIRC these are modified pumps
form a ?Mopar?
It isn't here yet, but wanted to know if anyone has had any experience
with them. I hope someone I know gets his machine shop going soon so
he can crank out the adapters we talked about to remedy the fuel pump
blues...(yoo hoo, Jeffy...)
Studebaker George

The Other Dave

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Jan 11, 2008, 2:09:24 PM1/11/08
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Go electric, and install a pressure switch to cut off power to the pump if
oil pressure goes to zero, for safety in case of an accident.
"Studebaker George" <gstud...@juno.com> wrote in message
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Rick Courtier

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Jan 11, 2008, 2:10:24 PM1/11/08
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I went up and surveyed the shop question a few weeks ago. . . and it seems
to me that what we have is a two fold problem. Wife need her barn done
before Jeff can even think about taking cash to pour a floor in the new
shop. Even thou the "original" Studebaker shop came with dirt floors. <G>
What we need to do George is to get a un-official state meet/barn
rising/cement floor pouring at Deepnhock acres and the problem will be
solved. We pitch tents bring our Studebaker and make a weekend of it. Of
course Jeff will supervise from the Beer and Technology Center. <G> Feel
free to add you name to the list the more the merry. I even bring the
Yuengling . . .


Sign up list:

Rick Courtier
Studebaker George
Pat Skelly

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Jerry Forrester

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Jan 11, 2008, 2:58:27 PM1/11/08
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Rick Courtier" <ri...@graphicworkshop.com> wrote in message
news:fm8ev...@news2.newsguy.com...

I went up and surveyed the shop question a few weeks ago. . . and it seems
to me that what we have is a two fold problem. Wife need her barn done
before Jeff can even think about taking cash to pour a floor in the new
shop. Even thou the "original" Studebaker shop came with dirt floors. <G>
What we need to do George is to get a un-official state meet/barn
rising/cement floor pouring at Deepnhock acres and the problem will be
solved. We pitch tents bring our Studebaker and make a weekend of it. Of
course Jeff will supervise from the Beer and Technology Center. <G> Feel
free to add you name to the list the more the merry. I even bring the
Yuengling . . .


Sign up list:

Rick Courtier
Studebaker George
Pat Skelly

Jerry Forrester

Nate Nagel

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Jan 11, 2008, 3:58:08 PM1/11/08
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IMHO the only way to go with a mechanical fuel pump is to rebuild an
old, original Carter one. The new "airtex" pumps always leak. I put a
brand new appearing one with a boost reference fitting on my '55 just to
get it running, when I started up a long uphill all the oil that was
sitting on top of the diaphragm came out and onto the exhaust... scared
the yell out of me. I promptly found a NOS correct one, kitted it, and
all was well.

or you could just block plate it off (BBC block plate works) and use an
electric pump.

I'd rather do either of the above than use a new production fuel pump.

nate

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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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Studebaker George

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Jan 11, 2008, 5:49:26 PM1/11/08
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Owner says nay on the 'lectric one. Nobody here has used the
"alternative" listed in the SI catalog? I recon come Monday I will
find out if that one is worth a poop.
I think I have some old Carter ones but I did toss a bunch a while
back and will rebuild one as a last ditch effort. Several people told
me thay haven't been having problems with the Airtex/Master ones, but
every one I have ever put on leaks after a while...maybe they don't
DRIVE their cars <G>. Some people mess with the pin; I have done
that...but then they leak from the upper seal and whiz out the vent
hole....and they all start leaking gas after a while and need the
screws tightened....basically they SUCK....
I do have one on my Daytona that has been on there for a couple years,
but it will fail now that I mentioned that.... That one came from
Carquest with a lifetime warranty.
I see I'm already signed up for the barn dance....
Just let me know when.

And a BTW... Rick, I hope you are coming to the Ga. State meet as we
need to yak about possible Fl. State meet options....
Studebaker George


dwcars

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Jan 11, 2008, 7:07:06 PM1/11/08
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I agree with Nate. Go OEM Carter. Send your original to a reputable
rebuilder who will install a diaphram capable of dealing with todays
gasoline and your troubles will be over.
When my original went out, I bought an Airtex. In the meantime, I sent
the original off an had it rebuilt. The Airtex lasted about 6 months. When
it started pissin' gas, I put the rebuilt Carter back on and cured aall my
fuel pump related problems.

"Studebaker George" <gstud...@juno.com> wrote in message
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keith_k...@wed.dresser.com

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Jan 11, 2008, 7:33:57 PM1/11/08
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Where are these fuel pumps leaking from, and what is it leaking?
If I can assume they are leaking gasoline, is it from the diaphragm
area, with all the screws around it?

The reason I ask, I have had a few pumps that leaked, on some of the
20 or so, Studebakers I had owned over the last 38 years.

I was able to fix each one by taking out the screws and applying a
SMALL amount of shellac, or non-hardening Aviation Permatex to both
sides of the rubber diaphragm using a q-tip. Then tighten the screws
evenly.

This is fairly common and shows up more in cold weather, when the
rubber is stiff.

If it is squirting motor oil out of the vent hole, then the seal just
below the actuator arm is worn, or has shrunk.

If they leak engine oil at the mounting flange due to distortion, the
arm needs to be taken out and resurface the flange. Usually a piece
of sandpaper on a piece of flat glass, will allow you to sand off the
high spots. A larger washer under the two bolts, will help spread out
the clamping force. Some pumps had rectangular plates, instead of
washers, which act even better.

Studebaker George

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Jan 11, 2008, 7:52:58 PM1/11/08
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I still can't believe that nobody here has tried the Carters listed in
SI...they aren't THAT much more expensive!
BTDT a gazillion times on all the other. I don't think the late
Carter original pumps are that great quality wise and the earlier
glass bowl ones won't fit in this car (at least I don't THINK they
will). If the new one I get isn't worth a crap, I will dig into my
boxes of old ones and rebuild one. I would still like to see a modern
sealed (crimped) replacement. Maybe I should grab a junk block off
the scrap pile and a cover and a few other bits and take out the
torch...chop up the whole mess into a small enough working display to
let the "gang" ponder after the barn dance and some
"lubrication"...<G>
I will have to tear down another engine for a cover as someone has a
box full of old ones from me...(another BIG grin) but I'm getting
ready to cut up some cars anyway...
Studebaker George

Nate Nagel

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Jan 11, 2008, 9:06:18 PM1/11/08
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I've had pumps (with somewhat corroded castings) that needed a little
dab of Permatex under the stem seal as well, to keep the oil off the top
of the diaphragm.

RBK.

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Jan 11, 2008, 9:24:56 PM1/11/08
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George
The so called Carter pumps that S.I. sells are the same Airtex junk
pumps but re pakaged in a Carter box.
The only difference is that they have "Made In Canada" on it.
It is still the same junk Mopar 318 pump.
They leak around the pin.
Some people put some JB weld on the pins and that seems to help.
The problem with these pumps is that they do not make a full stroke.
It just barely pumps enough gas and when you punch it, the engine
starves.
I sell rebuild original Carter pumps for $75.00. These are rebuilt
using new rubber diaphrams and check
valves that are designed to withstand the ingredients in the modern
gas.
I have both metal bowl and glass bowl Carter pumps.
They have new filters installed.
R.Kapteyn
Joliet Studebaker Service
112 Bissel Street.
Joliet IL.60432
stude...@mac.com
815 722 7262

Studebaker George

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Jan 11, 2008, 9:37:18 PM1/11/08
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Thanks Robert, I was wondering about that....if indeed the pump shows
up and it is one of the same POS units I have been 'cussin for some
time, I will send it back and dig through my pile of old original
pumps. All of the Airtex/Master pumps say "made in Canada"...might as
well be CHINA!
BTW Robert, did you get my email about the shocks for the '38?
Studebaker George

Grumpy AuContraire

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Jan 11, 2008, 11:32:41 PM1/11/08
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Studebaker George wrote:


That's why I abandoned the use of mechanical fuel pumps on Studebakers
years ago. Everything I have has an electric pump. No more problems...

JT

Jeff Rice

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Jan 12, 2008, 9:05:25 AM1/12/08
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George (and others)...
Can you send me a 'failed' Airtex pump?
I need a couple (3 or 4) for a project...
(but these must be 'failed' pumps with leakage around the pivot pin)
Jeff


"Studebaker George" wrote...

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Jeff Rice

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Jan 12, 2008, 9:01:12 AM1/12/08
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I hear you.
I just can't reach you <lol>...
A tidbit of future optimism...
Somebody get me the Airtex p/n for the Stude pump.
Jeff (corporate gears turn slowly..) rice

"Studebaker George" wrote:...

--

Jeff Rice

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Jan 12, 2008, 9:08:09 AM1/12/08
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Wow... Up to three names already!
I just saw a sign up list that was two years old that had a whole two names
on it <lol>...
(something about some lady running for president <lol>)
Jeff
PS: I can just see how flat that floor would be with all those Stude guys
pushing bull floats....


"Rick Courtier" wrote...


>I went up and surveyed the shop question a few weeks ago. . . and it seems
>to me that what we have is a two fold problem. Wife need her barn done
>before Jeff can even think about taking cash to pour a floor in the new
>shop. Even thou the "original" Studebaker shop came with dirt floors. <G>
>What we need to do George is to get a un-official state meet/barn
>rising/cement floor pouring at Deepnhock acres and the problem will be
>solved. We pitch tents bring our Studebaker and make a weekend of it. Of
>course Jeff will supervise from the Beer and Technology Center. <G> Feel
>free to add you name to the list the more the merry. I even bring the
>Yuengling . . .
>
>
> Sign up list:
>
> Rick Courtier
> Studebaker George
> Pat Skelly

--

dwcars

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Jan 12, 2008, 6:39:56 PM1/12/08
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Mine was leaking gas. I didn't examine it to see where the gas was leaking
from, I just limped home hoping that fire wouldn't break out. I was also
thinking how happy I was that I had had the factory original rebuilt.
Give me your address and I'll send you mine.
Dexter

"Jeff Rice" <deepnhoc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
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Studebaker George

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Jan 12, 2008, 6:44:35 PM1/12/08
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I thnk I have a couple of the junk pumps laying around, but they are
problematic in not just ONE spot... They leak from the pins when the
pins drift, they leak fuel from the bottoms and the centers when the
screw loosen and the crappy rubber used in the diaphragms shrinks, and
the seals for the plungers are TERRIBLE and fail quiclky, causing
lots of oil to spit out the vent hole. I don't think fixing them is a
worthwhile idea, the adapter is a much better one. I took a minute
today to look at a sealed Mopar pump and it looks like an adapter to
change the angle on the arm just a little bit or an arm modification
or custom arm on one of the non sealed units would work just fine.
The Mopar and Stude ones are REAL close in the arm dept. and the bolt
patterns and base look the same. I didn't have much time today to
fool with pumps, but will look closer this week. Mopar guru says the
high performance Carter versions of the pumps are trouble free and are
rebuildable.
Studebaker George

Mark Dunning

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Jan 13, 2008, 6:15:57 AM1/13/08
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going back in time, we read a tit bit from Calvin:


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: oldcarf...@aol.com (Oldcarfart)
Date: May 31 2004, 6:25 pm
Subject: Leaky Fuel Pumps
To: alt.autos.studebaker


>Subject: LeakyFuelPumps
>From: s2dst...@webtv.net (Steve Hudson)

>OK, I'm on the 3rdfuelpumpon my '63 289 engine. Each one works fine,
>but after some miles starts leaking oil. Diagnosis? Solution?

take the *&^%#$^ thing off, clean REAL GOOD with carb cleaner, put a penny
centered over the pivit pin end, cover (OVER PENNY, NOT UNDER!!) with 5
minute
epoxy to hold penny in place, turn over and repeat, go take a schitt and
read
whole article in TW, re-installpump.


"Studebaker George" <gstud...@juno.com> wrote in message

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Studebaker George

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Jan 13, 2008, 8:11:48 AM1/13/08
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Mark, that will fix the pin issue (until the pennys fall off) but it
won't fix the problem of the bad plunger seals or poor rubber and
castings. When the seals craps out, oil spews out the vent hole....
Studebaker George

dwcars

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Jan 15, 2008, 5:09:43 PM1/15/08
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of carnal men, a
foundation for the torments of hell. There are those corrupt principles,
in reigning power in them, and in full possession of them, that are
seeds of hell fire. These principles are active and powerful, exceeding
violent in their nature, and if it were not for the restraining hand of
God upon them, they would soon break out, they would flame out after the
same manner as the same corruptions, the same enmity does in the hearts
of damned souls, and would beget the same torments as they do in them.
The souls of the wicked are in scripture compared to the troubled sea,
Isa. 57:20. For the present, God restrains their wickedness by his
mighty power, as he does the raging waves of the troubled sea, saying,
"Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further;" but if God should withdraw
that restraining power, it would soon carry all before it. Sin is the
ruin and misery of the soul; it is destructive in its nature; and if God
should leave it without restraint, there would need nothing else to make
the soul perfectly miserable. The corruption of the heart of man is
immoderate and boundless in its fury; and while wicked men live here, it
is like fire pent up by God's restraints, whereas if it were let loose,
it would set on fire th


Rick Courtier

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Jan 15, 2008, 7:02:56 PM1/15/08
to
ours;
what I call ours is conventional."

[41]Seneca, Epistles, xcv. "It is by virtue of senatus-consultes and
plebiscites that one commits crimes."

[42]Tacitus, Annals, iii. 25. "Once we suffered from our vices; today we
suffer from our laws."

43Saint Augustine, City of God, iv. 27. "As he has ignored the truth which
frees, it is right he is mistaken."

[44]Cicero, De officiis, iii, 17. "Concerning true law."

45Eccles. 3:19. "for all is vanity."

46Rom. 8:20-21. "It shall be delivered."

[47]Horace, Odes, III. xxix. 13. "Changes nearly always please the great."

48Seneca, Epistles, xx. 8. "In order that you are satisfied with yourself
and the good that is born from you."

[49]Montaigne, Essays, ii. 12.

50Cicero, De Divinatione, ii. 58. "There is nothing so absurd that it has
not been said by some philosopher."

51Cicero, Disputationes Tusculanae, ii. 2. "Devoted to certain fixed
opinions, they are forced to defend what they hardly approve."

52Seneca, Epistles, cvi. "We suffer from an excess of literature as from an
excess of anything."

53Cicero, De officiis, i. 31. "What suits each one best is what is to him
the most natural."

54Virgil, The Georgics, ii. "Nature gave them first these limits."

55Seneca, Epistles, cvi. "Wisdom does not demand much teaching."

56Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum. "What is not shameful begins to
become so when it is approved by the multitude."

57Terence, Heauton Timorumenos, I. i. 21. "That is how I use it; you must do
as you wish."

58Quintillian, x. 7. "It is rare that one sufficiently respects one's self."

59Seneca the Elder, Suasoriae, i. 4. "So many gods are busy around a single
head."

60Cicero, Aca


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