Avanti II
BondoBill1
when I search for Avanti II all I get is directed to the new Avanti Company
site.
We need the old Avanti II logo, or where to find it.
Thanks in advance.
Billy
Avanti_Ken
Go to www.avantiparts.net and look under Exterior and Decals. The first one
under Exterior is the II Avanti (which is the same as 63/64 Stude) The
roman II shown is correct. (Was originally made from left over Stude 8
roman's)
Look under Decals for positioning. The Avanti II 327 valve cover sticker is
real close to actual of emblems mounted on on car.
Your customer has a car earlier than 83. After Neuman/Altman the fiberglass
bumper cars used the second Avanti design under Exterior without the II
If this doesn't work I can snail mail you an old Avanti and II to work from.
(Actual Emblems)
-
Avanti_Ken
"BondoBill1" <bondo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030921093358...@mb-m24.aol.com...
BondoBill1
Most appreciated. I got a long letter from this fellow going into the history
and other information, except where to get the logo he desperately wanted.
My next question, he wants it on a shirt, is this a purist thing, or is there
really that big a following on Avanti II's. and this following will not
asscoiate with Avanti owners or their logo?
Avanti_Ken
the Fla Avanti Owners Assoc., 63 Studes to a new 2002 with my Avanti II
(Neuman/Altman) and Blake Avaniti (fiberglass bumpers / second logo with
flat T). It is a very active group. In my several years as a member, I
have never, repeat never seen any back bites or anamosity (sp) between us.
I have never seen this non-association with "true" ie:63/64 Stude Avanti
owners. (If anything, it's the other way around. I think every one of us
"Post Stude Owners" would like a true cherry 63 or 64 Stude - me especially.
We had over 250 Avanti's of all years at the week long "Return to the
Factory Tour" in 2001. (The new GA factory.) We all had a ball meeting Tom
Kellogg, looking at the new car, the plant, etc. Again, I never heard one
word of segregation between the several hundred people present.
The reality is that there are many more post Studebaker Avanti's on the road
than true Stude's and of that bunch, the largest group on the road is the
Neuman/Altman Avanti II cars (1966 thru early 1983). Stude made about 4300
cars, Neuman/Altman made about 2100, then Blake / Califaro made a couple
hundred from late 83 to the last few in 91(dropped II and used the second
design for Avanti). Then the new car since 2001 (couple hundred so far
maybe, don't know for sure)
Bill, If you take your existing Avanti script and add a II, then you are
covered for both the 63/64 Stude and all Neuman/Altman cars ie: 1963 thru
early 1983 - aprox. 6,400 cars.
--
Avanti_Ken
"BondoBill1" <bondo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030921112224...@mb-m24.aol.com...
BondoBill1
I was nervous about using the new Avanti II logo, as it is an active trademark
and I do not have permission.
Interesting difference in the early Avanti logo to the new Avanti logo.it is
all in the T, which is so subtle that you don't see it until you stare at it.
Thanks again
Bill
Avanti_Ken
Want to make sure you hear what I thunk I said :<)
The Avanti Corp, formed after Studebaker by Neuman/Altman - A South Bend
Stude/Packard Dealer - used the same Avanti script as Studebaker. The only
thing they did different is added the II, originally built from surplus
Studebaker VIII emblems. The corp itself was not named Avanti II. (They did
not own the name Studebaker so all S emblems and the Studebaker name were
removed from the car).
My early 83, one of the last of the Neuman/Altman cars (basically a 64 Stude
with a McKinnon engine and GM Trans and a few very minor trim item
differences) was one of the last to use the " II "emblem.
All cars from mid 83 on to the last few 91's built first by Blake and then
Califaro under the successor co named "The New Avanti Corp." used the flat
Avanti name designed by Blake. (The second one on the Nostalgic web site)
The new company in Villa Rica GA, named the Avanti Motors Corp., is owned by
Michael Kelly, a former partner of Blake and then J.J. Califaro. Mike owns
the Avanti name for automobiles and now the Studebaker name for automobiles
(which he bought from a Long Island bank, the owner of the finance arm of
what was Studebaker Worthington).
Just remember, Raised T for the Studebaker Avanti and the Avanti II by the
Avanti Corp.
If there is a issue about using the II or either of the Avanti Name scripts
in a design you need to check with Mike since he is the owner of Avanti
Motors. If you would like Mike's E-mail address send me mail.
--
Avanti_Ken
"BondoBill1" <bondo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030921134001...@mb-m20.aol.com...
Ron /Champ 6
through...or maybe you're ignoring me!?! <G>
PS I'm buying shirts, if that helps!
Ron/Champ 6
1963 8E5 Champ (Champ 6)
1962 Lark Daytona Convertible (Boomerang)
1992 VW Passat (Taxi)
1995 VW Passat (Vanilla..yuk)
BondoBill1
NO its not you. I know you want a shirt.this croppped up afterwards. Iasked JP
as to what the logo was, and he told me what everyone else said.but then this
guy wrote me.
Avanti_Ken
With funds from Buttercup I presume :<) (You better have a Yellow Lark on
one of those shirts in memory of her)
-
Avanti_Ken
"Ron /Champ 6" <br...@att.net> wrote in message
news:ttasmv4ae18no8v96...@4ax.com...
Ron /Champ 6
phone #?
Ron
Ron/Champ 6
Studegary
>Califaro under the successor co named "The New Avanti Corp."
Mike Kelly owned The New Avanti Motors when my 1987 was built in South Bend.
owned by
>Michael Kelly, a former partner of Blake and then J.J. Califaro.
I believe that Mike Kelly bought Avanti from Blake and later sold it to
Califaro. I believe that all 1987-1988's were Kelly cars.
I am sure that there are others here who know Avanti history better than my
memory. Please speak up if my corrections above, from memory, are incorrect.
Gary L.
Studebaker Drivers Club Director - Northeast Zone
35 year member of Studebaker Drivers Club, Inc.
Avanti_Ken
You are correct, Mike did have the controling interest in the company for a
short time (18 months or so) between Blake and Califaro. He tried to recoup
from Blake's excessive spending fubars but Blake had drained the cash to
almost zip, plus Blake's ill-conceived new DuPont paint system developed
major quality problems (most late 84, all 85 and even some early 86 cars had
to be striped and repainted under warranty) which drained what cash was
left. Mike told me that he was about to close the doors when Califaro
expressed serious interest. The negotiations went on for a very short time,
Mike said less than a month.
The sale to Califaro was like a godsend to Mike. Rather than going broke
Mike recouped almost all his personal investment (which provided the
beginning capital for Avalon Resorts).
Then in late 99 eaelt 2000, Mike purchased all the remaining assets from
Califaro (which included 10 semitruck loads of Avanti stuff, some of which
goes back as far as 1967) and moved the whole shebang from Youngstown to the
empty Villa Rica, GA hosery mill. (He would have liked to have moved and
re-started in South Bend but the labor unions and wage rates prohibited it.
I don't know if you know, but Mike is a South Bend boy. As a youth I think
Mike said he worked for Neuman/Altman.... also Jon Hull worked for N/A
--
Avanti_Ken
"Studegary" <stud...@aol.comjunkbloc> wrote in message
news:20030923144646...@mb-m06.aol.com...
Studegary
>major quality problems (most late 84, all 85 and even some early 86 cars had
>to be striped and repainted
Thanks for posting the agreement with my statements. There were no 1986 model
Avantis (sort of like there were no 1983 Corvettes). It took Kelly a while to
get things going and he started with the 1987 model year. I purchased (new)
the fourth Avanti that he built for sale (S/N 0006).
Avanti_Ken
There were 85's with fiberglass bumpers and Stude frames designed and built
by Blake because I own one.
If I knew then what I know now about Blake's silicon / fiberglass/ paint
fubar I would have never purchased the car -- I can't get paint to stick to
it and lord knows I have tried. Constant blisters and bubbles from the
Blake/DuPont paint system silicon release molds fubar plus overall generally
poor build quality because Blake cut corners to spend money on personal toys
such as the GT race car and the Avanti Limo....
If Blake chose not to call cars 86 yr. models, that was his "personal"
choice because he built several dozen cars during calender yr 86 and had a
very hard time selling them. (The word of the paint and quality problems
spread fast.)
I think this discussion is sort of like a dog chasing it's tail around a
tree. My 83 Avanti was "technically" built by Blake because he "owned" the
company when it was in final assembly and sold but it is a Neuman/Altman
car -- essentially a 64 Stude without Stude badges and with a McKinnon V8
and GM auto. Other than that, and my Optional Recarro Seats and Leather
Interior (a Neuman/Altman option), it is a 64 Stude.
I guess you could even say that all 64 Stude Avanti's are really 63's since
Avanti production ceased in Dec. 63.
What I and Avanti Club friends do is really catagorize Avanti's by style (vs
yr). Thus at events, like the "Return to the Factory Tour" in 91, where we
had over 200 Avanti's present, my 83 was judged with other Neuman/Altman
cars....cause that is what it "really" is.....and so on.
The one thing for sure is that Mike Kelly has "saved" Avanti, not once but
twice, both times risking substantial amounts of his own reputation and
capital. The real hero's of "Avanti are Neuman, Altman, Mike Kelly and Tom
Kellogg . The big "tits on the bull" was Blake and and to some extent
J.J.C.
--
Avanti_Ken
"Studegary" <stud...@aol.comjunkbloc> wrote in message
news:20030923161346...@mb-m06.aol.com...
Studegary
>There were 85's with fiberglass bumpers and Stude frames designed and built
>by Blake because I own one.
>
Yes, I agree. It was 1986 that I was taking exception to. I believe that
RBQ4149 to 4244 and RQC4251 to 4253 were 1985 Blake cars (of course, 1983 and
1984 were also Blake cars).
Avanti_Ken
what is a RQB3618 in your understanding? Blake or Neuman/Altman?
Avanti_Ken
"Studegary" <stud...@aol.comjunkbloc> wrote in message
news:20030923184009...@mb-m18.aol.com...
George Rohrbach
[1970] and RQB3370 [1982]) were RQC4250, RQC4251 and RQC4252. RQC4253 was
"on the line" but not completed, although I have the build sheet. I have
always suspected that the 4253 body might have been the one that Kelly used
for his first convertible. but I have never asked him.
I have owned RQC4250 for the last 17 years. The AOAI roster lists my car as
RQB4250, and although every year I send them the correct serial number, they
never correct it.
Gary - At least you knew that there were 3 RQC cars. Most confirmed Avanti
nuts don't know that.
--
George Rohrbach
Visit my Web site.
HIGHSPEED MOTORS, Your local Studebaker Dealer of THE 20’s, 30’s And 40’s
http://www.highspeedmotors.com
"Studegary" <stud...@aol.comjunkbloc> wrote in message
news:20030923184009...@mb-m18.aol.com...
Avanti_Ken
(And I think your idea regarding RQC 4253 is probably correct.)
--
Avanti_Ken
"George Rohrbach" <geo...@ptd.net> wrote in message
news:XY7cb.7229$yp6.1...@nnrp1.ptd.net...
Dave's Place
Don't get excited, Loy, it's just an expression. <G>
--
Dave Lester and the Ain't This The Pits Crew
Home of 'Sheba, the Internationally Renowned Studebaker Under Construction
http://members.provalue.net/studes/
Studegary
>what is a RQB3618 in your understanding? Blake or Neuman/Altman?
>
1983 Blake. Blake bought Avanti 10/8/82.
Robert Kapteyn
<KMatson...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Mike said he worked for Neuman/Altman.... also Jon Hull worked for N/A
The correct spelling is Newman.
After Studebaker closed ,the Avanti was built by Nate Altman.
I don't think Newman had much to do with these anymore.
There was a cofusion with Avanti Parts Corporation ,which I believe was
the renamed Standard Surplus after they purchased the remaining
inventory of SASCO (Studebaker Sales Corp) (not Dennis's Studebaker
Autoparts Company).
Did anyone ever write down or did the newsgroup ever hash out the
history with dates, names ,locations etc. about the Avanti after
Studebaker?
R,Kapteyn
Avanti_Ken
Your correct -- Newman -- ( sorry, I knew that). Nate Altman certainly was
the driving force behind the Avanti Corp. and the success of the Avanti II.
Without him, in my opinion, the Avanti would just be a distant memory for a
very few.
Besides Bob Johnstone's excellent site, Richard Gallatin has under
continuous development a site specifically devoted to the Avanti.
www.theavanti.com Richard is always looking for more information and
human interest to add to the site. If you have any tidbits of Avanti data,
information, etc. that Richard could use he certainly would appreciate
input. Also, were trying to make the site as accurate as possible, yet
still keep the "human interest" bent, send him mail on any corrections /
updates / additions you think should be made.
-
Avanti_Ken (One Happy Guy that can't spell worth a cr*p ;<)
------------------------
"Robert Kapteyn" <stude...@mac.com> wrote in message news:
> In article Avanti_Ken
Studegary
>history with dates, names ,locations etc. about the Avanti after
>Studebaker?
This was done in material published by John Hull in 1993. Since it is
copyrighted material, I would not post it here.
Avanti_Ken
by John Hull plus many others.
--
Avanti_Ken
"Studegary" <stud...@aol.comjunkbloc> wrote in message
news:20030925143437...@mb-m05.aol.com...
randee
fellow with the tinted glasses you saw occasionally), Nate Altman
handled the customer relations. Geoff Newman ran Standard Surplus Div.
of Newman Altman Corp. at 405 W. Sample St. SASCO (old), Studebaker
Automotive Sales Corp., was originally at Bldg. 7 AFAIR, then moved to
Bldg. 69, eventually becoming divorced from the Studebaker-Worthington
Corp. and continuing business as the Avanti Parts Corp. under John
Duncan with Herman Hirsch handling the day-to-day orders.
Both Avanti Parts Corp., Avanti Motor Corp., and Standard Surplus were
in operation, independently, at the same time. Standard Surplus sold
the stuff they had bought from Studebaker as Surplus Stock, Avanti Motor
Corp. had all parts that were used on the Avanti, so any Lark parts
needed by Avanti Parts Corp. had to get them from Avanti Motor Corp.
Avanti Parts Corp. also handled parts all the other products including
trucks, Packards, Sno Pony's, and, for all I know, ALCO Worthington and
Mercedes products. Actually, even tho the Sno Pony and Packard parts
were moved to South Bend, I don't recall that South Bend held any
Mercedes parts other than the blueprints. Not sure whether I ever saw
any evidence of ALCO Worthington stuff in SOuth Bend, I don't think so.
Eventually, Avanti Motor went its own way, with a bunch of the parts
stock being sold to somebody near Detroit (can never remember that guy's
name), Avanti PArts finally merged with Standard Surplus, which
eventually sold much of its inventory to Dennis Lambert (who had been at
SUrplus just about as long as I can remember...) and he revived the old
SASCO acronym.
You can also add to the mix Hurwich Iron, which bought huge lots of
heavy metal parts (cranks, heads) for smelting. Altho not supposed to
resell any of their stock, Hurwich did sell a bunch to somebody in, hmm,
Wisconsin maybe?? I forget now who bought a lot of the Hurwich surplus
stock, but it has been posted here before.
Robert Captain wrote:
>
> The correct spelling is Newman.
> After Studebaker closed ,the Avanti was built by Nate Altman.
> I don't think Newman had much to do with these anymore.
> There was a cofusion with Avanti Parts Corporation ,which I believe was
> the renamed Standard Surplus after they purchased the remaining
> inventory of SASCO (Studebaker Sales Corp) (not Dennis's Studebaker
> Autoparts Company).
> Did anyone ever write down or did the newsgroup ever hash out the
> history with dates, names ,locations etc. about the Avanti after
> Studebaker?
> R,Kapteyn
--
wf.
Wayne Flowers
Randee Greenwald
ran...@zianet.com
JETman
still have one 259 and the 289 is going into an engine that I've been
building for the past five years...
JT
snip
>
> You can also add to the mix Hurwich Iron, which bought huge lots of
> heavy metal parts (cranks, heads) for smelting. Altho not supposed to
> resell any of their stock, Hurwich did sell a bunch to somebody in, hmm,
> Wisconsin maybe?? I forget now who bought a lot of the Hurwich surplus
> stock, but it has been posted here before.
>
> Robert Captain wrote:
> >
> > The correct spelling is Newman.
> > After Studebaker closed ,the Avanti was built by Nate Altman.
> > I don't think Newman had much to do with these anymore.
> > There was a cofusion with Avanti Parts Corporation ,which I believe was
> > the renamed Standard Surplus after they purchased the remaining
> > inventory of SASCO (Studebaker Sales Corp) (not Dennis's Studebaker
> > Autoparts Company).
> > Did anyone ever write down or did the newsgroup ever hash out the
> > history with dates, names ,locations etc. about the Avanti after
> > Studebaker?
> > R,Kapteyn
>
> --
> wf.
> Wayne Flowers
> Randee Greenwald
> ran...@zianet.com
--
Regards,
JT (Residing in Austin, Texas)
Just Tooling Down The Internet Superhighway With my G4.......
Ken Matson
Excellent information. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.
--
Avanti_Ken
"randee" <ran...@zianet.com> wrote in message
news:3F73BBE1...@zianet.com...
Studegary
>heavy metal parts (cranks, heads) for smelting. Altho not supposed to
>resell any of their stock, Hurwich did sell a bunch to somebody in, hmm,
>Wisconsin maybe??
Hurwich didn't advertise it, but if you went there and asked, they would sell
you individual parts. I bought a couple of pair of NOS front fenders from
them (Lark, $10 per fender). I know people that bought NOS crankshafts. Many
of the cranks were seconds or worse, but the price of the gamble was worth it
at $10 each. I just recommend checking the cranks for straightness, bearing
sizes, etc. before using them. Hurwich also had some NOS soft parts. I was
there when a NOS leather '53 Starliner seat upholstery set was sold and I also
saw NOS Golden Hawk 400/Packard Hawk interior items. I do know that some
dealers went there and bought up truck loads of NOS parts. These are some of
the parts that you now see advertised by some vendors. Even inflation and
storage wouldn't eat up the increase from $10 to $300-$400 per item <G>.
Robert Kapteyn
wrote:
>
> Eventually, Avanti Motor went its own way, with a bunch of the parts
> stock being sold to somebody near Detroit (can never remember that guy's
> name)
Dan Booth from Nostalgic bought most of it and the rights to the
tooling. That is why we do not see reproduction 1953 full hubcaps
anymore.
Dan owns the rights to the dies that were modified for the Avanti.
> , Avanti PArts finally merged with Standard Surplus, which
> eventually sold much of its inventory to Dennis Lambert (who had been at
> SUrplus just about as long as I can remember...) and he revived the old
> SASCO acronym.
>
> You can also add to the mix Hurwich Iron, which bought huge lots of
> heavy metal parts (cranks, heads) for smelting. Altho not supposed to
> resell any of their stock, Hurwich did sell a bunch to somebody in, hmm,
> Wisconsin maybe?? I forget now who bought a lot of the Hurwich surplus
> stock, but it has been posted here before.
Wisconsin Studebaker ( Bill Barr) hauled the rest of Hurwich's stock to
Eau Claire.Wisconsin
>
> Robert Captain wrote:
The correct spelling is Kapteyn