Q: What's being sprayed in the injector scoop?
ratman
is it that a crewmember sprays into the butterfly's of a TF/FC injector (air)
scoop just before the car stages? My guess it's some sort of lubricant to keep
the butterfly's or other linkages or other moving parts in the intake from
freezing as it idles, but i could be totally wrong.... Ok, how much of a retard
am I, am I totally off? Thanx.
ratman
NITRO498
nitro.
Lyle Greenberg
move so much air that the icing is incredible (especially if its humid).
This ices up the butterflies and the shaft. After the run, the butterflies
have to be propped open for quite a while to let the condensation evaporate.
Lyle Greenberg
443 FM/FC
http://www.lylegreenberg.com
ratman wrote in message <19990731133007...@ng-fa1.aol.com>...
Wheeler
<snip> Ok, how much of a retardMy friend........... ONLY a retard will not ask, and start telling people that it is STARTING FLUID...............................I wish I had a dollar in my pocket every time I have heard someone make that statement.
am I,
1Wheeler
http://millennium.fortunecity.com/lassie/859/index.html
Dog Nature Law: Examine everything: smell it; taste it; play with it; if possible, ingest it; and, if all else fails, piddle on it!
ratman
>You are exactly right. Most of us use de-icer or WD-40. The screw blowers
>move so much air that the icing is incredible (especially if its humid).
>This ices up the butterflies and the shaft. After the run, the butterflies
>have to be propped open for quite
>a while to let the condensation evaporate.
Thanx Lyle!... I figured it was probably something like that... it wouldn't
have made any sense if it was fuel, unless fuel on the butterfly's could be
used as a lubricant (deicer) too... Thanx again!....
Great website too! Good luck with your FC!
ratman
ratman
>My friend........... ONLY a retard will not ask, and start telling people
>that it
>is STARTING FLUID...............................I wish I had a dollar in my
>pocket
>every time I have heard someone make that statement.
Hey thanx for the encouragement, but i'm still a retard.. I mean, i'm just a
freakin' spectator... If i wasn't a retard I'd be racing...
ratman
Lee
down the hiway with the engine at operating temp. Certainly not disputing
anything now, just asking because I don't know. I picked up one of those
squirt bottles one time and the contents smelled like pure alcohol, and I
"assumed" on my own this was so not to start the motor on pure nitro.
Pappy
----------
Lyle Greenberg wrote in message <7nving$eqg$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>You are exactly right. Most of us use de-icer or WD-40. The screw blowers
>move so much air that the icing is incredible (especially if its humid).
>This ices up the butterflies and the shaft. After the run, the butterflies
>have to be propped open for quite a while to let the condensation
evaporate.
>
>Lyle Greenberg
>443 FM/FC
>http://www.lylegreenberg.com
>
>ratman wrote in message <19990731133007...@ng-fa1.aol.com>...
>>ok, i've watched it a million times, and i still don't know what it is....
>What
>>is it that a crewmember sprays into the butterfly's of a TF/FC injector
>(air)
>>scoop just before the car stages? My guess it's some sort of lubricant to
>keep
>>the butterfly's or other linkages or other moving parts in the intake from
>>freezing as it idles, but i could be totally wrong.... Ok, how much of a
>retard
>>am I, am I totally off? Thanx.
>>
>>ratman
>
>
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BANDIT2941
>down the hiway with the engine at operating temp. Certainly not disputing
>anything now, just asking because I don't know. I picked up one of those
>squirt bottles one time and the contents smelled like pure alcohol, and I
>"assumed" on my own this was so not to start the motor on pure nitro.
>
Well, thats when the problem is(after startup). I assume they get some ice
buildup after the burnout, and thats why/when they use it. He asked about what
they are spraying before the car stages, not before the car starts up. I know
on alky cars they start em on gasoline because of its ease of ignition, then
they switch to alky. I assume they start fuelers on an alky and gasoline
mixture, but I could be wrong(wouldn't be the first time!!)
talk to you later
Jamie
Lyle Greenberg
Maybe we are all not on the same page. Ratman asked "What is it that a
crewmember sprays into the butterfly's of a TF/FC injector (air) scoop _just
before the car stages_?" I assumed he made a typo and really meant a Top
Alcohol Funny Car (T_A_/FC) since the nitro cars don't have to do the
de-icing routine. You and Nitro498 are talking about the startup prime which
is a whole different deal than "just before the car stages". Again, the
nitro cars don't do the de-icing because nitro doesn't create the
frost/icing effect that methanol does.
As far as your comment about the prime bottle smelling like pure alcohol, an
alcohol dragster or funny car is primed for the initial startup with
straight methanol. The only time that would be different is if the temp is
low (say less than 70 degrees). Then we would mix some gas in with the
alcohol. As far as talking about firing the nitro cars on gas, I have never
fired a nitro car so I have no idea what they use.
Now what were we talking about? (LOL)
Lyle Greenberg
443 FM/FC
http://www.lylegreenberg.com
Lee wrote in message <37a4...@news5.newsfeeds.com>...
>Then why isn't icing a problem after startup? Older cars would ice up
honing
>down the hiway with the engine at operating temp. Certainly not disputing
>anything now, just asking because I don't know. I picked up one of those
>squirt bottles one time and the contents smelled like pure alcohol, and I
>"assumed" on my own this was so not to start the motor on pure nitro.
>
KnuckleHead
>ok, i've watched it a million times, and i still don't know what it is.... What
>is it that a crewmember sprays into the butterfly's of a TF/FC injector (air)
>scoop just before the car stages? My guess it's some sort of lubricant to keep
>the butterfly's or other linkages or other moving parts in the intake from
>freezing as it idles, but i could be totally wrong.... Ok, how much of a retard
>am I, am I totally off? Thanx.
>
>ratman
ratman...are you sure your not confusing TF/FC with thetop alcohol
cars On the alcohol cars we spray de-icer onto the injector
butterflies because the alcohol is so cold in the injector hat that i
will freeze the butterflies shut sometimes...so a quick shot of
de-icer just before the car stages prevents that from happening.
ratman
>ratman...are you sure your not confusing TF/FC with thetop alcohol
>cars On the alcohol cars we spray de-icer onto the injector
>butterflies because the alcohol is so cold in the injector hat that i
>will freeze the butterflies shut sometimes...so a quick shot of
>de-icer just before the car stages prevents that from happening.
to answer several questions that several of you wrote....
- i meant, what do they spray/squirt after the car is started (and after their
burnout, just prior to staging, not prior to firing the engine)
- i did mean both Top Fuel and Funny Car, not thinking of Alcohol (methanol)
cars specifically, but including them as well
I could be mistaken, but i seem to remember that both the FC and TF cars
(including the Alchy cars), always sprayed something at that time (before
staging). At least I was right about the Alchy cars, but wrong about the TF and
FC's maybe. I'll have to watch the NorthWest Nationals today and CAREFULLY
watch all the cars... Maybe some of the clues are that some cars use a spray
can (i'll guess that's de-icer or WD), and others use a squeeze bottle (mmm,
can't guess at that, but De-Icer is really just isopropyl alcohol, so it could
be in a squeeze bottle)...
I would think that the non-Alchy cars had the same freezing problem as the
Alchy cars, the blower being the common factor, or rather, the air speeds
(lots) being the common factor in the air scoop. I figured they would all have
the same moisture freezing problem above the injectors (where the butterflies
are).
ratman
Quadrajet1
maybe that's why nitro cars don't need to squirt the juice.
And Lyle can answer this, does a nitro engine and an alcohol engine use the
same amount of fuel during the run?
Also, as for squirting stuff before the start, I grew up always using canned
ether on tractors, and sometimes our race cars. I guess lots of stuff would
work...
Raymond
Mark Davis
you run alcohol, it ices up the parts. Try rubbing some pure alcohol on
your arm. Feels cold right? That what happens when alcohol evaportates.
Go watch an alcohol car warm up in the pits. Even on a hot day, you will
see frost on the injector hat. Then go watch a nitro car warm up. No ice
there.
RacerX70
>see frost on the injector hat. Then go watch a nitro car warm up. No ice
>there.
This is of course, correct... however, (and I may be wrong here?), the purpose
of spraying a deicer on the throttle blades is to keep them from freezing in
the wide-open position? The velocity of the incoming air, coupled with the
natural icing of methanol, would seem to me, anyway, to present a "locked wide
open" condition. I've witnessed one of my bracket racing pals intake being
completely covered in frost after a run (with a simple Toilet on alky), and can
only imagine what adding a supercharger does to compound it. So, Lyle, is it to
keep them open, or to keep them from staying open? I'm also curious... :)
Bob "Xman" Williams
#2096 Super Street/#7098 Hot Rod
"There's no such thing as an 'easy win'......I don't care what class you're
in.."
Warren Johnson
Doug Simpson
sense to me either, but that's what John Lawson told me when I asked.
ratman <tria...@aol.comREMOVE> wrote in article
<19990731133007...@ng-fa1.aol.com>...
Tom B Howell
teams,(including ours) use plain old fashioned de-icer.I bought our last can
at Tru-Value Hardware. Frost builds up around the throttle plates and
changes the idle position.The fact that these cars run alcohol and also run
much more blower overdrive than a fuel car is why they do it and fuel cars
don't.I really don't know if it is the alcohol or the blower O.D. that has
the most effect,but I would lean toward the fuel as a richer engine seems to
frost up more.But then again so will a fresh blower.DUH.
The fuel cars I kicked around with used alcohol to start with. Later,Tom
Lyle,are you going to Sonoma?
Doug Simpson wrote in message <7o44f9$f...@newsops.execpc.com>...
Tom Braksator
the East Coast. We sprayed the injector for the ease of staging the car.
It is hard to bring the car up to 5000 or 6000 and hold it there, let alone
having to try and break apart the ice that has built up on the blades. So
actually the reason for spaying the blades, is to allow the driver to bring
the car up to its stage RPM.
Tom Braksator
RacerX70 <race...@aol.comhrsst> wrote in message
news:19990801221159...@ng-fv1.aol.com...
Tom Braksator
the Screw type blowers came about.
But also the ice cold alcohol has a big effect also.
Tom Braksator
Tom B Howell <BC...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:7o49j8$4kj6$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com...
Mopar Nut
Bob Wilson
antifreeze). Due to the rapid expansion rate, and subsequent cooling,
when it comes into contact with a surface, methanol tends to freeze the
butterflies shut.
A serious alky engine will burn approx. 5 gallons per run, while a nitro
(top fuel) engine will use at least 15-18 gallons. Quite a difference,
eh? Another way to compare the two fuels is the fuel/air ratio: Blown
fuel likes almost a 1-1 mix, while blown alky is closer to 6 or 7-1.
For starting, an alky engine uses mostly methanol (with a taste of
gasoline) in the squirt bottle. I'm not sure if the same mix works with
a nitro engine.
Bob Wilson
Northern Thunder T/AD - Why Be Normal?
http://www.northernthunder.com
arthur cimilluca
Mopar Nut <ForeignCarsSuck> wrote in message
news:37a7...@news.siscom.net...
Nitrohemi
For starting, an alky engine uses mostly methanol (with a taste of
gasoline) in the squirt bottle. I'm not sure if the same mix works with
a nitro engine.>>
I remember a magazine ad by Texaco a few years ago (back when Snake was still
driving) that said that he starts the car with a bottle of gasoline.
forced347
ingnite. dave
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Nitrohemi
ingnite. dave>>
Cool, thanks for the definitive info. What car do you run?