Blood on the Hands

Gary Solomons

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98

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As bad as I feel for the Eckman family,how in the world do you have the
nerve to put the blame on the NHRA??????A man tries to kill himself because
he gets caught cheating and you make like its there fault.It amazes me in
this day how many people cannot take the blame and the heat for there own
actions.Jim,you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to place that blame
on a innocent party.
Gary

BC Evans

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98

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Man I hate these stories. I had the pleasure to meet Jerry only a few times.
He struck me as normal guy by my standards. A little crazy and liked the
ladies. Not your boring corporate racer that we see so often nowadays.

I wish him a speedy recovery, both physically and mentally. I don't care what
he did, he is one of us.

Bill - S/G 6035

Jim Harvey wrote:

> Well, sad to say, over the weekend, Jerry Eckman, formerly of prostock fame
> ( and Infamy, after being caught doing waht many in his class were doing)
> attempted to take his life by gunshot to the chest. reports indicate that
> the bullet hit his heart, and although still alive, is evidentally in
> critical condition and may not survive.
>
> Well I suppose that if you take a guy's living away, fine him heavier than
> most major felons, ban him from the sport for an excruciatingly long time,
> that poor bastard might just feel as though he's come to the end of his
> rope.
>
> I guess Cocaine is a more acceptable substance in NHRA than Nitrous Oxide.
>
> So how "cuddly" does the NHRA Family appear now? Gee, they're really moving
> up in the ratings as far as I can see. Maybe the next guy that gets caught
> using the laughing gas could be beheaded during an oildown at the next
> National Event. Lots more fun that having a T-Shirt fired at you.
>
> Sympathies to the Eckman family.
>
> Jim Harvey

Chris

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98

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I have great sympathy for the Eckman family. My prayers go out to them.
But are you trying to blame the NHRA for the decisions this man made in his
life? You're saying there should be no consequences for your actions? And
"everyone was doing it" is your reasoning?
I'll bet you're a Bill Clinton fan too.

Jim Harvey wrote:

> Well, sad to say, over the weekend, Jerry Eckman, formerly of prostock fame
> ( and Infamy, after being caught doing waht many in his class were doing)
> attempted to take his life

BC Evans

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98

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Hey, everybody, let's stay focused on Jerry. I'm sure if you were lying on the
floor with blood pouring out of a whole in your body you really would be pissed
off if everyone was standing over you arguing about who's fault it was. The
guy needs our support. Not our self centred political views. Let's deal with
those later, hopefully Jerry will be able to give us the real story.

Bill - S/G 6035

Jim Harvey wrote:

> Well, sad to say, over the weekend, Jerry Eckman, formerly of prostock fame
> ( and Infamy, after being caught doing waht many in his class were doing)

> attempted to take his life by gunshot to the chest. reports indicate that
> the bullet hit his heart, and although still alive, is evidentally in
> critical condition and may not survive.
>

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Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98

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Jim Harvey wrote in message <6v4ajv$n...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.at
>
>
>
>But you may be too busy enjoying those attractive young Sports Magic folks
>at the drags to pay all that much attention to real life.

>>And speaking of REAL LIFE I dont remember giving the NHRA the power to
make moral or legal judgements on ANYBODY. Of course they treated Orndorf
and Eckman in a ridiculous fashion. But who decided that a race sanctioning
body should be judging people for their off track personal lives? Who
decided that a bunch of thieves like the NHRA should be making judgements on
those who have gone through the court system? And before you throw stones at
Mr. Alderman, it might be nice to familiarize yourself with his case. And
then compare the story of someone like Mr. Hill.
If Jerry Eckman was without hope, blaming the Glendors Nazis hardly does a
bit of good. Remember the story when someone you know is despondent, and
it's easy to stay away. People pull the trigger when the last door closes.
>><
>>
>
>

Robb Lowe

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Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98

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Hey Evans,

Jerry pulled the trigger.... I doubt he would want anyone to run for help, ya
know? Anyone that says they never thought about that way out is a lying sack of
shit. I dont care if it were only for 1 second, it crosses everyones mind. Its
been a long time since Jerry was in the show .... most of us know how hard it
is to hang up the helmet voluntarily, but try imagining having it taken away.
Now think of how competitive most drag racers are.. how losing is the worst
thing in the world, and here you are with out even a chance at winning... sound
like the kinda thing you wanna run against? No. Pride, ego, fears, love.. it
all plays a part in someone decision to do something like this. Things always
seem worse to yourself more than those your worried about hurting... I am sure
he felt he let everyone down when in reality I am sure most of them felt as we
do - that he was OVERLY punished and is the victim here, not the evil doer
that NHRA points him out to be. The only GOOD thing that can be seen in any of
this is future rulings on similar events.. Jims dead on though... different
standards for different levels of fanbase. Force could take a wizz on Wally's
shoe while they sing the national anthem and Wally would say " John, ya missed
a spot! ".

For the historians in the audience, didnt Glidden once get busted for Nitrous?
I was thinking he put it in the oil pan er something.. what did he get? wasnt
he like super-Bob that year and could do no wrong??? Just curious.

Oh, and as for Aldermans case... theres the real story, and theres the National
Dragster stories. Whoever wrote Darrell's parts surely assisted Clinton. Bottom
line there is, NHRA made a bold and swift ruling on him, but because he was at
the top of his game he was reinstated with a new story cause they couldnt just
say " hey, it was costing us money for him NOT to be here ".

Sooner or later things like this are gonna happen again. its just a matter of
time and money. NHRA took the fun out of this and turned it into a dog eat dog
world where no one is the winner except the cigar lickin assholes in the tower
suites. Reminds me of sea monkeys... they just sit there and pull the strings,
sprinkle a little brine across the top of the pond and watch & laugh... I only
wish if Jerry were gonna do this, he would have thought about who really
deserved a bullet.

I am sure someone will think I am being harsh.. but hey, they took the greatest
sport on earth and sucked it dry. They whored it out to the closest pimp and
then made the racers dance for nickels. The fun is all but gone, the thrill is
there only in the speeds, and the commraderie has been replaced with loathing
and sponsor envy. If it werent for the streetcar, nostalgia, and outlaw
movements.. there would be NO saving grace in acceleration racing. I would say
I hope Eckmans act was a wakeup call... but theres two problems with that..
first, they would have to have a heart. 2nd, he isnt a big enough name to milk
it for anything - No PR, no real network coverage and no sponsorship monies to
be had from any do gooders.

ok, before the flamers staring building the bonfires in my honor.. heres one
more thought to sleep on... When Darrell Gwynn had his little accident - he
became bigger than life. NHRA has milked his sympathy train for what, 8
seasons? hes a martyr, a role model, and a good cleancut young man struck down
in the prime of his career. Now, Eckman... he's just had a tragedy but do you
think he will get knighted by Unkl Wally as well? Think about it.......

Robb

Paul A. Pachmayer

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Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98

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Robb Lowe wrote:

After reading all the posts I have to put my two cents in for what its worth. Its a
tragedy that this happened, but the man had options. Why not race a different venue
or get a job and go on with your life. When a person makes a mistake he or she
needs to take the lumps and accept the consequences. If your cheating, doing drugs,
stealing, whatever you know your doing wrong and could very well be caught. If you
cant do the time don't do the crime. If this seems harsh Im sorry, but its real
life and it happens to people everyday. I bracket race and can say i don't cheat,
wouldn't do it because I have to much respect for my fellow racers and myself. If
you cheat what have you really won?

Just some thoughts,
Paul
--
********************************
http://www.skullcaps.com
Headgear with an Attitude!
********************************

bobby

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Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98

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Hey folks, has the thought crossed anybodys mind that the action Jerry took
just might not have a damn thing to do with 'RACING'. Racing is a great part
of my life, granted. I miss Jerry and his kind at the track. He's a nice
guy. A rarity these days for sure but , there's nobody else to blame for
your own actions than YOU! I hope Jerry makes it through this ordeal. God
bless you Jerry Eckman. And for you Robb Lowe, Darrell Gwynn was bigger than
life BEFORE his accident. He has been my friend for many years . Since about
1979. He was then and is today.............. a wonderful, kind and caring
person. Of course you wannabe types wouldn't know that now would you?
Oh, by the way, I'm just a lowly SUPER STOCK racer. No nitro, so I guess I
don't know SHIT huh!!!!!

O.k. Robb remember........BE NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bobby ----your worst NIGHTMARE

Tom396

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Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98

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Robb,

>>Anyone that says they never thought about that way out is a lying sack of
shit. I dont care if it were only for 1 second, it crosses everyones mind<<

You have no idea what crosses my mind, even for 1 second. That is the
coward's way out. Now. I'm a what again? Take care. Tom.

www.hotrodder.com/Tom396

FMDragRacr

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Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98

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>For the historians in the audience, didnt Glidden once get busted for
>Nitrous?

Actually, Bob broke the story about his sons using nitrous, and stopped short
of accusing the Johnsons of it, (though he really left no doubts).
Eckman was going to be made an "example" of the next "cheater" to be caught in
the wake of the supposed "break-in" that stopped the Dodge Boys, (remember that
one?), simply by being the next guy to get caught. Could have happened to
anybody. My personal opinion is he had other problems which led to this, but
his suspension ceertainly could have played a part. Remember, he was just at
Reading (as a spectator), just before the attempt on his life, and it could
have been the proverbial "straw".
One can go back a few years, and remember a past S/G champion who, after
winning the championship the year earlier, murdered his girlfriend and took his
own life. We're still human after all, and yes....there's more to life than
racing, and that plays a part as well.

FM

NITROMIKE

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Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98

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I Heard he was upset because his girl friend left him!!Also that he will
recover!
NITROMIKE

Comet1966

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Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98

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>Anyone that says they never thought about that way out is a lying sack of

shit. I dont care if it were only for 1 second, it crosses everyones mind.

Interesting statement, huh? Kind of shows you what's REALLY on Robb's mind.
Sad.........

"Pete" Garramone
come...@aol.com

Robb Lowe

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Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98

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Hmm.. well, first I didnt stutter.. so you read it right. As for coward's way
out, I didnt say it was justified, just a passing thought. Now Tom.. can you
honestly say that in the entire time of your life the words "kill" and "myself"
havent come to pass in your head at least once? Perhaps a bad grade, a lost
love, Linda Vaughn telling you she had other plans for dinner and if you didnt
leave her alone she was gonna call the police? < its a joke, my new disclaimer
for the humorously challenged > Man I gotta tell you.. I have had the highest
highs and the lowest lows in my life and sure, it was a passing thought for
about 2 milliseconds. I am not getting into all the topics that "real men" say
they dont do <crying, etc > but seriously, even if you buried it in the back of
your mind or wasnt serious about it, it STILL was a thought.

Pete, I didnt follow... are insinuating a: I am suicidal, or b: think everyone
is a container of fecal excretions. ??? Sad??? in what way? Because I feel for
the guy and not the empire?? Because he was judged on the amount of "draw" he
had vs. the message sent?

Norman, I was thinking the bob thing was as early as his days in the Arrow, and
no later than the 89 T-bird.. From what I remember it was a situation of " Bob,
we are gonna keep this between you and us, cause you are THE prime draw in pro
stock. We cant be throwin you out !!!! " Someone with some semblence of morals
leaked the story < from within the tech dept. of NHRA > and it was a insiders
joke for a time. I have no proof, and I sure as hell aint givin up any names.
But I do remember when Mr. Glidden could not be beat, and then when he had to
struggle to make it thru the race. I did not know about his boys runnin
nitrous, but then again I kinda dropped out of santioned racing several years
ago.
Darrell Alderman's situation is another one of creative wording and need to
get some Dodge fans back in the crowd. I know you think the courts went
ballistic on him but you need to think about it like this... Alderman had the
best attorney team in history till OJ's. Theres more horror stories and behind
the scene shit going on in drag racing than any other motorsport, face it. Ya
know why? Cause it pays the least and cost a HUGE amount to win at. Whether
your name is Lew Arrington, Jerry Ruth, Darrell Alderman or Jerry Eckman, you
do WHATEVER it takes to race and win. Period. Its a disease with no cure. When
you force someone to make a decision, its like backin a rattlesnake in a
corner.. hes gonna strike. Might not be the RIGHT strike, but hes gotta do what
hes gotta do.

Bottom Line? Jerrys in the hospital, Wally's on the golf course.

Robb

Robb Lowe

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Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98

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<<<O.k. Robb remember........BE NICE!!!!!!!
>>>>

HEY!! I am ALWAYS nice!!! Just brutally honest. Sorry for those that take it as
being mean or ugly, I just dont have time to stroke egos and candycoat things.
I am the guy that ANYONE in this NG could call at 3am and say," Robb, I am
broke down 50miles from you, " And I would be there. I dont care if we
disagreed, or you flamed me into a charcoal briquet, love'm or hate'm we are
all still friends. Just because we see things differently dont make either one
of us wrong, just different.

So you dont run nitro? well heres a newsflash, ME EITHER!!! I love the stuff
sure, but I never have crawled behind < or god forbid in front of > a motor
crankin on the stuff. Maybe someday......

Super Stock and the upper Stock classes to me are the BEST door car racing. I
really get off on the SS/A cars and the A-B/S heads up racers.

Gwynn mighta been bigger than life to you Bobby, but to me and most of the gang
I knew he wasnt. The only thing I really liked about him was his tow rig, nice
paint. I REALLY feel for the guy, I have a similar situation in my own family.
Just because he was severly injured doesnt make him a saint in my book, sorry.

MALIBU RAC

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Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98

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>I know you think the courts went
>ballistic on him but you need to think about it like this... Alderman had the
>best attorney team in history till OJ's.

OK i've kept my mouth shut long enough. As for the courts going balistic on Mr.
( and i use the term loosely) Alderman. ON WAY , Mopar must have got the court
to kiss his ass too, just like they did NHRA. He got nowhere what you or i
would have for the same offence. Can you say my room mate's name is Bubba?
Because if it was us Bubba would be livin next door for the naext 10 years.
There are a number of racers out there that can't run at NHRA races because of
there side jobs. ( must i explain that one )
This all started when MOPAR kissed his ass and got the rest of the world to do
the same. If he was driven for me i'd have publicly denounced him for the dope
head he is. ( don't say he's reformed either - once a dope head always a dope
head)
This is juat one more example of NHRA's unability to be consistant in there
rules making and inforcing. Last sentance in the rule book should say " we
reserve the right to inforce these rules as we see fit and as to who the
offender is"
To the best of my knowledge NHRA is the only sationing body in auto racing that
lets drug offenders back in.

Comet1966

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Oct 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/3/98

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> Pete, I didnt follow... are insinuating a: I am suicidal,

Robb,
Apparently, cuz you seem the only one around here with those thoughts.

> b: think everyone is a container of fecal excretions.

No, I don't think so. But you seem to think that way judging by the way you
want to attack everyone who has a view different than yours. You seem to thrive
on attention by being a boor. You also seem to be fairly intelligent but you
act like a teenager.
Of course, that's just my opinion.

"Pete" Garramone
come...@aol.com

Robb Lowe

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Oct 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/4/98

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Pete, I can see your views. I disagree with your take on them however.

<< the way you want to attack everyone who has a view different than yours. >>

I do not attack, I refute. I post my opinion, someone gives me theirs, and I
answer it if I think it was misguided or basically wrong in the way they saw
things portrayed. Sure its ALL opinion based, but thats why this is called a
discussion group, not a praise group.

<< You seem to thrive on attention by being a boor. >>

Nope.. I dont need or thrive on attention. I say whats on my mind, unfiltered
and unabashed. I do not make apologies for having an opinion nor do I apologize
for bringing out the need in people to voice theirs. I am sick of the
blinders-on politically correct not to say anything types. Stand up and say
what you think, feel, and believe in. I am sick of people who fear being
chastized for having an opinion. Sure there are times I look back and think "
gee, I wish I hadnt said that" but its rare. I get alot more people to talking
than anyone ever has and I like that. Not for the attention towards myself, but
for the reason people are being passionate about their thoughts and feelings..
not just going with the "popular" ideas and feelings of the collective. I get 4
to 1 "attaboy's" to "you jerk" letters.. so obviously its not an unpopular
concept.

<< You also seem to be fairly intelligent but you act like a teenager. >>

Well thank you for the compliment to start with. Coming from you that is saying
something < based on your background, not meant at all smartass>. Act like a
teenager? Because I speak my mind? I dont see the "bad" in that. As you have
noticed I am not a bandwagon jumper.. Robb Lowe doesnt wear Nike shoes, Tommy
Hilfiger clothes, or drive a Camaro. In that same thought line I dont go along
with the collective in terms of agreeing with whoever says what first. I have
noticed that if someone who has newsgroup "Clout" such as yourself or a few
others voice a thought, then alot of the NG seems to 2nd that thought. If
someone refutes it, then that person gets a downline of agree'ers. What I am
saying is wrong with this is - that FIRST person has my respect.. the yes-men
followers do not. The first person to counter the thought has my respect, the
downliners do not. Why? Because why did they wait to voice their opinions? Fear
of being outcasts, plain and simple.. no one wants to be first. When your on
the highway, do you run 80mph? no. But, let someone pass you at 80, and you
will speed up.. its just human nature. I know this is a bit long winded, but I
wanted my position clear.

gary johnson

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Oct 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/4/98

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1-nhra did right as far as Alderman's legal case by reinstating him a
soon as he had finished serving his "sentence". It was our commie-lib
court system that didn't put him, or MANY others away for near long
enough.
2-nhra did wrong in the "Dodge Boys" case by first helping to facilitate
a cover-up and also by not just simply disquailfying them, points and
all from THE RACE IN WHICH THEY WERE CAUGHT ONLY. nhra, nascar, or any
other sanctioning body should not have the right to suspend someone for
an illegal car past the race in which it was found to be illegal, No
matter if is was 10 pounds light at the scales or if it had a 936 cubic
inch motor. Illegal is illegal.
3-Eckman's team should have gotten the same penalty and they would still
be in business.
4-As sorry as nhra has become, even they shouldn't be blamed for
Eckman's attempted suicide. Hell, his suspension is already, what, about
half over? Just my HO. Later.

GMJinNC

kenny

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Oct 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/4/98

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If he was driven for me i'd have publicly denounced him for the dope
head he is. ( don't say he's reformed either - once a dope head always a dope
head)

Sorry to hear you think this way....and also damn glad i dont drive for you.....and
for you to be this closed minded amazes me...and yes i am reformed and been that
way for 10 years....I sincerely hope that you understand that people make mistakes
and they can change...no i'm not defending Darrell but the many people out there
that have had the courage to turn their life around after making wrong choices

Kenny