Saab 9-5 turbocharger failure
Nicko
the throttle after brisk acceleration led me to the Saab repair workshop.
The diagnosis was turbo failure. I was advised that the 9-5 engine has a
known fault with the oil breathing apparatus. The technician showed me a
slight oil leak in two specific places from the head gasket and said the
pressure builds up and always leaks from these two places. This build up of
pressure caused my turbo to fail.
The car has only done 56,000 miles. My previous two Saabs (a 9000 2.3t and a
9000 Aero) went to 135,000 miles each with no such problems.
Has anyone else heard of this problem before ? The car is 6 months out of
warranty, yet it was never subject to a recall for an oil breather problem,
and has always been main dealer serviced.
You can see where I am going with this one...... I would like to ask Saab to
pay the bill or contribute to it if they knew there was a problem but had
not addressed it.
Any comments much welcomed.
Nick
dave...@spamcop.net
> 1999 9-5 SE. Clouds of white smoke out of the back of the car upon lifting
> the throttle after brisk acceleration led me to the Saab repair workshop.
> The diagnosis was turbo failure. I was advised that the 9-5 engine has a
> known fault with the oil breathing apparatus.
Inline-4, or V6? Any details on the claimed "known fault"? (I have
a '99 9-5 SE with the 2.3L engine and turbo).
> The technician showed me a
> slight oil leak in two specific places from the head gasket and said the
> pressure builds up and always leaks from these two places. This build up of
> pressure caused my turbo to fail.
I'm not understanding the description, I think.
> You can see where I am going with this one...... I would like to ask Saab to
> pay the bill or contribute to it if they knew there was a problem but had
> not addressed it.
What was the mechanism of the turbo failure? Seals, or catastrophic, or
something else? I can't see how any kind of high pressure in the
oil system would cause anything resembling this, but I'm willing to learn
otherwise.
> Any comments much welcomed.
Something is not as it's been described to you, I think. I await the
comments of several others, maybe they can enlighten us both.
Dave Hinz
Johannes H Andersen
Nicko wrote:
>
> 1999 9-5 SE. Clouds of white smoke out of the back of the car upon lifting
> the throttle after brisk acceleration led me to the Saab repair workshop.
> The diagnosis was turbo failure. I was advised that the 9-5 engine has a
> known fault with the oil breathing apparatus. The technician showed me a
> slight oil leak in two specific places from the head gasket and said the
> pressure builds up and always leaks from these two places. This build up of
> pressure caused my turbo to fail.
>
> The car has only done 56,000 miles. My previous two Saabs (a 9000 2.3t and a
> 9000 Aero) went to 135,000 miles each with no such problems.
Possibly blown head gasket; the white smoke could be steam. I have a 9000,
so I don't know much about the 9-5, but the turbo in the 9000 is very
reliable as you also have found out, subject to the usual turbo precautions.
At such low mileage, I think it is worth pushing for a "good will" repair
from Saab if it really is turbo failure and not something else.
Johannes
Goran Larsson
Nicko <nick...@takethisoutmac.com> wrote:
> The diagnosis was turbo failure. I was advised that the 9-5 engine has a
> known fault with the oil breathing apparatus.
"oil breathing apparatus"? This is probably what the rest of the world
would call the crankcase ventilation system. The crankcase ventilation
system in the 4 cyl 9-5 engines do have problems, mostly because the
crankcase ventilation system the engine was designed to use was not
acceptable for use in the US due to some stupid rules. A simpler
crankcase ventilation system was quickly designed. Unfortunately that
system do have problems and have been modified several times over the
years. A malfunctioning crankcase ventilation system will result in
dirty oil and that can result in turbo failure.
Check the crankcase ventilation system, use good synthetic oil, and
replace the oil often.
> The technician showed me a
> slight oil leak in two specific places from the head gasket and said the
> pressure builds up and always leaks from these two places.
Not related. The leaking head gasket can usually be fixed by retorqueing
the cylinder head bolts.
--
Göran Larsson http://www.mitt-eget.com/saab/
MH
I understand it is burned glycol in the coolant
-------------------------------------------
MH
'72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96
http://go.to/saab96
Andrea Parenti
"Nicko" <nick...@takethisoutmac.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:behbj9$c75$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
> 1999 9-5 SE. Clouds of white smoke out of the back of the car upon lifting
> the throttle after brisk acceleration led me to the Saab repair workshop.
> The diagnosis was turbo failure. I was advised that the 9-5 engine has a
> known fault with the oil breathing apparatus. The technician showed me a
> slight oil leak in two specific places from the head gasket and said the
> pressure builds up and always leaks from these two places. This build up
of
> pressure caused my turbo to fail.
>
Same here: 1998 9-5 SE, turbo blew at about 90.000 Km (strange coincidence,
this is about exacly 56.000 Miles!! - see below -)
Tecnician said: - Shit happens! (especially to "mostly urban" drivers).
"Goodwill" Saab paid 50% of the bill, even if the car was 5 months out of
warranty.
Turbocharger is made by Garrett, mine was "Made in Italy"...
:-)
> The car has only done 56,000 miles.
[cut]
> You can see where I am going with this one...... I would like to ask Saab
to
> pay the bill or contribute to it if they knew there was a problem but had
> not addressed it.
>
> Any comments much welcomed.
Push to have at least 50% of the bill paid by Saab.
Bye!
>
> Nick
>
>
Henrik B.
:: Turbocharger is made by Garrett, mine was "Made in Italy"...
:: :-)
Hmmmm, this is a known phenomenon to things "Made in Italy". ;o)
M.v.h.
Razorback
times over a two week period and it had the same symptoms that got worse
every day. It had only 40K miles. It eventually got so bad the dealer had to
acknowledge the problem and the mechanic said it was the turbocharger. (No
sale this time) It is very strange why this problem produces geyish / white
smoke!!
"Nicko" <nick...@takethisoutmac.com> wrote in message
news:behbj9$c75$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
Andy
of turbo failures
sounds like your dealer has come out with some bulls**t reason why it has
failed to avoid any responsibility
check it out on http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/bb/9-5/
there are many other 9-5 owners with failed/ smoking turbos on low mileage
cars, not the usual pattern with saabs where the turbo usually last at least
150000 miles
"Nicko" <nick...@takethisoutmac.com> wrote in message
news:behbj9$c75$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
dave...@spamcop.net
> the 9-5 uses a small ballbearing T17 turbo and there are many reported cases
> of turbo failures
> sounds like your dealer has come out with some bulls**t reason why it has
> failed to avoid any responsibility
Also sounds like a great excuse to upgrade to a larger turbo... maybe I
should do that to mine now, and sell the stock one to someone else.
Dave Hinz
Nicko
Nick
Goran Larsson
Andy <692...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> the 9-5 uses a small ballbearing T17 turbo
No. The turbo has a normal oil bearing. It is extremely incommon with
ballbearing turbos on "normal" cars.
> and there are many reported cases
> of turbo failures
Many non-broken turbos have been replaced due to blue smoke caused by
a clogged crankcase ventilation system.
> check it out on http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/bb/9-5/
> there are many other 9-5 owners with failed/ smoking turbos on low mileage
> cars,
You will also find several owners who made the dealer replace the turbo
*several* times and still have blue smoke. Instead of fixing the
crankcase ventilation system they complain about poor quality of the
turbo.
Andy
of turbo failures
sounds like your dealer has come out with some bulls**t reason why it has
failed to avoid any responsibility
check it out on http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/bb/9-5/
there are many other 9-5 owners with failed/ smoking turbos on low mileage
cars, not the usual pattern with saabs where the turbo usually last at least
150000 miles
"Nicko" <nick...@takethisoutmac.com> wrote in message
news:behbj9$c75$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
Fred W.
"'nuther Bob" <noon...@thisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:cm1sgvkqb8ucftii7...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:39:04 GMT, h...@invalid.invalid (Goran Larsson)
> wrote:
>
> >You will also find several owners who made the dealer replace the turbo
> >*several* times and still have blue smoke. Instead of fixing the
> >crankcase ventilation system they complain about poor quality of the
> >turbo.
>
> tool" (Actually just a DI cassette). In the TSB it mentions that one
> of the reasons they developed it was that too many DI cassettes
> were being replaced that were testing "good" back at the factory.
> Seems that replacing the cassette became the first step for a
> lot of mechanics who didn't spend the time doing the real work.
>
Ya, no kidding.
"Well sir, we'll have to replace the DI cassette for $600 and what the heck,
we'll even throw in a set of new plugs while we have it off!"
-Fred
---
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Goran Larsson
'nuther Bob <noon...@thisaddress.com> wrote:
> Reminds me of the TSB where they came out with a DI Cassette "test
> tool" (Actually just a DI cassette). In the TSB it mentions that one
> of the reasons they developed it was that too many DI cassettes
> were being replaced that were testing "good" back at the factory.
The irony of it all is that the blue DI cassette is a red DI cassette
that was returned to the factory as "broken" but no problems could be
found with it. Saab only had some holes drilled in it, some cutouts cut
into it, some blue paint painted on it, and then called it a "test
tool".
I have heard of a green DI cassette as well. It's just like the blue
DI cassette, but there is a black DI cassette behind the green paint.
Dan Rathernot
a 9-5 wagon to replace my aging 93 9000 in another 10 years or so.
Natural Light Black and White Photography
http://www.phastnet.com/~geos/
-George-
"Goran Larsson" <h...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:HHrox...@approve.se...
Goran Larsson
Dan Rathernot <n...@no.com> wrote:
> Is there an upgrade for the crankcase ventilation system?
Yes. The one-way valve between the crankcase cover and the throttle
housing has been upgraded for early 9-5. The diameter of the bad valve
was about 15mm, the new about 20mm. The connector at the crankcase
cover end of the tube between the crankcase cover and the one-way valve
should be drilled to 3mm. The outlet of the oil trap, mounted behind
the engine, should have its hole drilled out to 6mm. All involved tubes
should be checked for blockage. Any damaged tubes should be replaced.
Saab has sent out instructions to all dealers about this.
Peter Wilkins
<nick...@takethisoutmac.com> wrote :
>
Hi Nick,
I have a 98 9-5SE and I detected the odd puff of white smoke out of
the exhaust when the car was 2 year 11 months and 3 weeks old. I
didn't think much of it at the time, but just happened to mention it
when I took the car in for the end of warranty service (3 year
warranty here in Oz).
When I picked up the car after the service, I had a new turbocharger.
The Saab dealer said there was a known fault with a specific batch of
turbochargers, and all were being replaced free of charge. It was
nothing to do with the head gasket, and I don't see how a leaking head
gasket could have anything to do with a turbocharger failure. Sounds
like pure bullshit to me.
Don't know if this info might help cover your 99 car, but it's worth
asking - if it is the same type of fault, and it sounds like it, you
might have a case for free replacement, or at least partial cost. I
had a section of my walnut dash split after 4 1/2 years, and when I
complained, Saab contributed 50%.
Good luck
--
Regards,
Peter Wilkins
RonM
service because I complained of blue smoke at startup. Has done the blue
smoke thing on and off since the beginning. Luckily I was still under
warranty. After the repairs the car had difficulty starting, would sometimes
buck when first put into gear, and was dripping oil. Took it back to the
dealer again. This time they replaced some seal and replaced the DI
Cassette. It starts fine now, but still leaks oil.
The car comes off of lease in a few days, but I think I'll pass on buying
it. The problems above and gas mileage that's averaged under 18mpg make me
wonder if there isn't something fundamentally wrong with my car. Too bad, I
love the ride and it fits me like a glove.
RonM
"Nicko" <nick...@takethisoutmac.com> wrote in message
news:behbj9$c75$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
Goran Larsson
RonM <ronm001del...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> wonder if there isn't something fundamentally wrong with my car.
There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with the dealer,
i.e. they must be incompetent. Why did they add this "difficulty
starting, would sometimes buck when first put into gear, and was
dripping oil" to your car?
RonM
My car was in for the 40K service. They needed to do all the standard stuff
plus replace the turbo & headgasket, resolve an airbag warning light and
replace my rear window wiper blade.
When I picked up the car, the paperwork said all the above had been done.
Airbag light came on right away. Looked at the wiper blade and it was still
the old one. My driveway showed oil spots right away and the car was
starting rough. Checked my service log and once again they had failed to
stamp the book to show that I've been maintaining the car. When I brought it
back in a couple of days to address these issues, they actually had the
nerve to charge me for the wiper blade. Talk about poor customer service.
You'd think they would have thrown that $15 item in just to keep me happy.
Oh, and the car is still leaking oil.
RonM
"'nuther Bob" <noon...@thisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:n918hvoq93si92av5...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:44:34 GMT, "RonM"
> <ronm001del...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >The car comes off of lease in a few days, but I think I'll pass on buying
> >it. The problems above and gas mileage that's averaged under 18mpg make
me
> >wonder if there isn't something fundamentally wrong with my car. Too bad,
I
> >love the ride and it fits me like a glove.
>
> That's a poor dealer if they could not fix the problems.
>
> If you like it, look to buy someone else's off lease car who will most
> likely not have those problems. It's easy enough to spot an oil leak
> and mileage can be tested in a half hour ride. The 9~5 does not have
> many issues.
>
> Bob