Need good advice from community, shopping...
Paul Atkin
I got blessed by my best half to waste up to 45K (but preferably around of
30-35K) for my 38th birthday present. :)
I generally was thinking about 2003-2006 Targa, if I`ll be able to find one,
manual.
It has been my lifelong dream to own one but now I have concerns. It has
been probably good 9 years since I drove anything regularly with stickshift
(prior to that I had 3 cars with stickshift so I basically should know how
to drive one). I never even tried Porsche in the traffic. Is its clutch
really stiff? If I anticipate 3-4 weekly trips in 1-1.5 hour long jam - will
it kill my foot?
Other more important question - I am in Boston, MA. Looked at classifieds -
did not see much. I see plenty of 911`s in CT and VA. Where would you shop
for one? Does anyone have a grip on current market? Are there any 'sweet
spots' driven by recession?
Other stuff on my mind - what specifically should I look at buying old 911,
other than checking Carfax records and obvious stuff like struts, oil on
engine, etc.? Are there any specific areas 911 has usual problems with?
Any help will be greatly appreciated. It is a big decision and right now I
am still in research mode.
Thanks,
Paul.
Sheldon
"Paul Atkin" <utki...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:h20alr$90k$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Hi,
>
> I got blessed by my best half to waste up to 45K (but preferably around of
> 30-35K) for my 38th birthday present. :)
> I generally was thinking about 2003-2006 Targa, if I`ll be able to find
> one, manual.
>
Never been a bit fan of the Targa, but whatever floats your boat...
> It has been my lifelong dream to own one but now I have concerns. It has
> been probably good 9 years since I drove anything regularly with
> stickshift (prior to that I had 3 cars with stickshift so I basically
> should know how to drive one). I never even tried Porsche in the traffic.
> Is its clutch really stiff? If I anticipate 3-4 weekly trips in 1-1.5 hour
> long jam - will it kill my foot?
I think Porsche clutches are no different than any other car. They are very
smooth when new and then tighten up when they start to wear. The clutch on
my car is great, but if it's a daily driver and your commute is bumper to
bumper stop and go, you might be wishing for an automatic, which on a
Porsche for those years ain't bad.
>
> Other more important question - I am in Boston, MA. Looked at
> classifieds - did not see much. I see plenty of 911`s in CT and VA. Where
> would you shop for one? Does anyone have a grip on current market? Are
> there any 'sweet spots' driven by recession?
Check back issues of "Excellence" magazine. They often post current prices
of Porsche models. The condition of the car is generally more important
then the year. A really clean, low mileage car may be a better deal than a
newer car in need of repair. Every model of Porsche has had its problems,
and most are well known and often fixed by the time it hits the used market.
>
> Other stuff on my mind - what specifically should I look at buying old
> 911, other than checking Carfax records and obvious stuff like struts, oil
> on engine, etc.? Are there any specific areas 911 has usual problems with?
Research the year you want and make sure any problems with that year were
either checked or fixed. Older cars will often leak oil, but it's expected
in a boxer type engine. Usually an easy fix on any Porsche, but no fix is
cheap.
Make sure to have the car checked out by a reputable Porsche mechanic, and
just be prepared for expenses down the road. You can't go into your
neighborhood AutoZone and pick up Porsche parts and advice.
Otherwise, the cars are a blast to drive and very enjoyable to own, with a
plethora of expensive add-ons if you wish. Your price range is in line with
some older Turbos, and they will hold their value forever, maybe even
appreciate. My car is a '79 SC, and I can sell it for what I paid for it in
'89, which is more than I can say for some of my stocks.
One more thing. Be careful with color. While bright colors are really cool
on a 911, they are also easier to pick up by the cops. If you buy a car to
get noticed, you will, and not always in a good way. :-) Get a good radar
detector!
Hope this helps, a little. Enjoy the car, and the adventure of finding it.
I"m not rich by any measure, but can't seem to part with mine. The way it's
running I'm sure I'll die before the car does.
Sheldon
The Dead Senator
Hi, Paul,
Sheldon already offered some sound advice to which I will add: be
patient, double and triple-check your choice to ensure you are getting
what you want, and have it checked out by a reputable Porsche mechanic
(Sheldon mentioned this, but it bears repeating). Not a generalist, but
rather a specialist. If you do this, you will keep the car for many
years knowing you made the right decision.
There are several sources of Porsche knowledge on the web that deserve
mention:
http://www.rennlist.com/
http://www.pca.org/
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/
...and probably others that I am missing, but you can only read so much
and these are the big ones in my book. I have gleaned mountains of
information from these and you can too. Usenet (here) has slowed down
while people flock to moderated forums like these for mostly sane
conversation. No spam, trolls or flamewars. Well, almost none.
There are wonderful books too. Bruce Anderson has the 911 handbook,
and Adrian Streather has written very comprehensive and specific books
on the 993 and the 996.
http://www.911handbook.com/
http://www.adrianstreather.com/
The market is currently soft. Deals can be had and that is probably
flattening out the prices. I see 2001-2002 Turbo's in the mid to low
$40k range and up. I see one 02 Targa in my area for $32k...black...it
looks verrry nice.
It took me 8-9 months to find my current Porsche. I looked while on
business trips, but was never satisfied. I shopped all around the
country (in person or electronically) for what I wanted and ended up
finding it 35 miles away. I even checked (gulp!) fleaBay.
I drive mine daily and after 65k miles the throwout bearing finally
went last month. This equates to a new clutch, but that is the only
major fix I've done. I don't mind the clutch stiffness (but it is
stiffer than my one-ton truck) and to me a sports car should not be an
auto, but to each his own.
To find the right car, be willing to travel a little. A one-way plane
ticket and a nice long drive home would be a wonderful way to spend a
weekend getting introduced to your new car. It's all about the
experience, no? Contact the regional Porsche club for mechanic
references in a particular area to identify someone reliable. Then have
the owner take the car in and await the results. It is difficult not
being there, but sometimes a Porsche club member will volunteer for such
tasks. It's really not a bad way to do it. Having more experience,
they might have a more discerning eye about some things. Of course, you
could always attend the process in person, but you might book several
flights finding the right car.
Oh, and to help with Craigslist, try these sites:
http://crazedlist.org/index.cgi
http://www.allofcraigs.com/
You probably already understand basic things like: East coast cars are
subjected to salty roads in the winter which is something to consider
when hunting. Texas and California are dry. Anywhere in between is a
toss-up. It depends on the car's quality of life and how well the owner
has cared for it. Records, etc.
I could blather on, but for everyone else's sake, I won't. Let us (at
least those that still hang out here) know what you do and the last
thing I will say, is welcome to the club!
DS
95 993 Coupe (Arrest Me Red)
Bill Noble
"Sheldon" <she...@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
news:h20ms1$cee$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Paul Atkin" <utki...@netzero.net> wrote in message
> news:h20alr$90k$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I got blessed by my best half to waste up to 45K (but preferably around
>> of 30-35K) for my 38th birthday present. :)
>> I generally was thinking about 2003-2006 Targa, if I`ll be able to find
>> one, manual.
>>
>
> Never been a bit fan of the Targa, but whatever floats your boat...
>
>> It has been my lifelong dream to own one but now I have concerns. It has
>> been probably good 9 years since I drove anything regularly with
>> stickshift (prior to that I had 3 cars with stickshift so I basically
>> should know how to drive one). I never even tried Porsche in the traffic.
>> Is its clutch really stiff? If I anticipate 3-4 weekly trips in 1-1.5
>> hour long jam - will it kill my foot?
>
>
noticed any clutch issue - of course my daily driver before the 993 was a
944, and before that a 356A (and before that a morgan +4), so maybe my
expectations differ from yours. you should not be riding the clutch much
even in stop/go traffic - at least not unless you need to crowd up on teh
car in front to keep some idiot from cutting you off -
Paul Atkin
"The Dead Senator" <deads...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4A443...@hotmail.com...
> Paul Atkin arranged the ones and zeros to read:
> The market is currently soft. Deals can be had and that is probably
> flattening out the prices. I see 2001-2002 Turbo's in the mid to low $40k
> range and up. I see one 02 Targa in my area for $32k...black...it looks
> verrry nice.
Thanks very much for excellent advices, thanks everybody!
I have no real preference to specific model at this point, I generally was
interested in Targa just for its big sunroof - I am not a big fan of
convertibles, in Boston it is not that useful anyway due to our weather.
I testdrove several 911s, mostly 2000+ years so I am pretty openminded about
particular model. I just want to find good one. :)
I am afraid of Turbos a bit - I afraid it may be a nightmare to fix it if
breaks plus I`m not going to race it that much. But if it fits the budget -
well, sure. :) But I did not see any for sale recently for any reasonble
price.
I looked at some auctions results - and i saw 911 of 2004 year going at 25K
with 50K miles and clean carfax history. I was pretty surprised to say the
least.
I also noticed that private party offers in classifieds are almost up to
5-10K higher than comparable offers from dealers. I guess market has really
went down.
Still it is an open question to me how to approach this. To buy it from an
auction in PA, say, seems to be an attractive option but it has to be done
remotely via agent there so it seems as a very dangerous adventure, to get
something that expensive without looking at it. But currently amount of
offers around 50 miles from Boston is pretty low.
Paul Atkin
"Sheldon" <she...@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
news:h20ms1$cee$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> news:h20alr$90k$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I got blessed by my best half to waste up to 45K (but preferably around
>> of 30-35K) for my 38th birthday present. :)
>> I generally was thinking about 2003-2006 Targa, if I`ll be able to find
>> one, manual.
>>
>
> Never been a bit fan of the Targa, but whatever floats your boat...
My boat is very unsettled so far.
Generally I think I can afford 2003-2005 996 or 2006 997. Non-turbo most
likely. It is very big question whether to search for 997 or settle for 996.
As I actually do not plan to drive it in winter so I mostly care it to be in
perfect shape and be alive for next 10 years at least with minor surprises.
What is community perception of 997 advantages? Does it have any critical
advantages over older 996?
Paul Atkin
>
> "Sheldon" <she...@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
> news:h20ms1$cee$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Paul Atkin" <utki...@netzero.net> wrote in message
>> news:h20alr$90k$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I got blessed by my best half to waste up to 45K (but preferably around
>>> of 30-35K) for my 38th birthday present. :)
>>> I generally was thinking about 2003-2006 Targa, if I`ll be able to find
>>> one, manual.
>>>
>>
>> Never been a bit fan of the Targa, but whatever floats your boat...
>
> My boat is very unsettled so far.
>
> Generally I think I can afford 2003-2005 996 or 2006 997. Non-turbo most
Floyd Rogers
>
>> The market is currently soft. Deals can be had and that is probably
>> flattening out the prices. I see 2001-2002 Turbo's in the mid to low
>> $40k range and up. I see one 02 Targa in my area for $32k...black...it
>> looks verrry nice.
>
> Thanks very much for excellent advices, thanks everybody!
> I looked at some auctions results - and i saw 911 of 2004 year going at
> 25K with 50K miles and clean carfax history. I was pretty surprised to say
> the least.
> I also noticed that private party offers in classifieds are almost up to
> 5-10K higher than comparable offers from dealers. I guess market has
> really went down.
Private parties always think that their perfectly-preserved garage queens
are worth far more than they can actually sell them for. Also, many people
are under-water on their car that they bought two years ago.
As others have said, don't get in a real hurry. Decide what you want then
wait for the right one to become available, at the correct price.
Autotrader
and cars.com are great tools to use to compare prices. I would also use
a large area: I bought our Boxster from a guy in Sacramento, even though
I live in Seattle. Lots more of them available in the Bay area than in
Seattle-
Vancouver-Portland.
FloydR
Bill Noble
"Paul Atkin" <utki...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:h20alr$90k$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> I got blessed by my best half to waste up to 45K (but preferably around of
> 30-35K) for my 38th birthday present. :)
> I generally was thinking about 2003-2006 Targa, if I`ll be able to find
> one, manual.
>
>
one thing to consider - the last of the air cooled cars was the 993 - if
your dream involves an air cooled porsche, you will want to go back to the
96, 97, 98 model years - they are a different car, which is the best match
for your dream is something you should decide after driving.
>
The Dead Senator
> ...
> and cars.com are great tools to use to compare prices. I would also use
> a large area: I bought our Boxster from a guy in Sacramento, even though
> I live in Seattle. Lots more of them available in the Bay area than in
> Seattle-
> Vancouver-Portland.
>
Floyd brings up a good point. When I was looking in California, I
noticed prices were 10-15% cheaper there. There are not nearly as many
cars in the northwest and I am sure the same is true for Boston.
Head south...
Bill Noble
"The Dead Senator" <deads...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0fu1m.261820$jp1.1...@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
I have heard, though I don't actually know if it is in fact true, that 50%
of all Porsche production is sold in Southern Ca - if that is even close to
true, it certainly tells you where to look
The Dead Senator
>
> I am afraid of Turbos a bit - I afraid it may be a nightmare to fix it
> if breaks plus I`m not going to race it that much. But if it fits the
> budget - well, sure. :) But I did not see any for sale recently for any
> reasonble price.
I am sorry. I did not mean to imply that you should get a Turbo. I
actually think that for you to begin your Porsche journey, you should
stay with a normally aspirated car. Turbos are simply among the models
that I currently look at. ;~)
Bruce Anderson says to buy the newest example that you can afford, but
there are exceptions to this rule, I think. Sprinkled through the years
there are good examples to own with the last cars in any series being
the results of much refinement. I think to start, these would be the
cars I would look at (The order largely depends on my mood and I am
911-centric because I know them better, but others can chime in if they
like):
88 911
Any 993
02-04 996 C4S
Any 997
2001+ Boxster S - if they suit you, bargains abound.
Cayman S
>
> I looked at some auctions results - and i saw 911 of 2004 year going at
> 25K with 50K miles and clean carfax history. I was pretty surprised to
> say the least.
> I also noticed that private party offers in classifieds are almost up to
> 5-10K higher than comparable offers from dealers. I guess market has
> really went down.
While newer is certainly better, Type 996 cars can be a real deal. Some
reasons for this are that it's the first of the water-cooled 911, they
made considerably more of them, and there were problems with the first
few years. In part, another reason may be that some felt it wasn't
Porsche's best design effort with flattened and widened headlamps and
its body being more streamlined. While this is certainly a subjective
area, I happen to like cars that have a hip. Thus my admiration for
993s, Turbos, C2S/C4S and the Cayman.
> Still it is an open question to me how to approach this. To buy it from
> an auction in PA, say, seems to be an attractive option but it has to be
> done remotely via agent there so it seems as a very dangerous adventure,
> to get something that expensive without looking at it. But currently
> amount of offers around 50 miles from Boston is pretty low.
The Porsche clubs have some very reliable people that might be willing
to help. Nobody hates looking at another Porsche.
Paul Atkin
> Paul Atkin wrote:
> Bruce Anderson says to buy the newest example that you can afford, but
> there are exceptions to this rule, I think. Sprinkled through the years
> there are good examples to own with the last cars in any series being the
> results of much refinement. I think to start, these would be the cars I
> would look at (The order largely depends on my mood and I am 911-centric
> because I know them better, but others can chime in if they like):
>
> 88 911
> Any 993
> 02-04 996 C4S
> Any 997
> 2001+ Boxster S - if they suit you, bargains abound.
> Cayman S
well, i am pretty much got my mind set on 'Any 997'. 2004-2006 most likely,
with <30K miles and 1 owner.
it is a trick to find one btw. just a 3 days ago in CT 2004 Targa was sold
for 40K with 13K miles and in perfect shape. Perhaps that is the current
price point.
I still wonder if I should try PA auctions directly - 99% of dealers cars
are resold after they get them from auctions. The only downside will be to
spend time to get it down to Boston.
Guru
Paul: I've owned and driven Porsches since 1971. I recently had to trade
my 2006, Carrera-S to get something that with 4 doors; however, in the 2
years I owned it, I didn't have a single issue. It was absolutely the
finest driving 911 I've ever driven, and it was a pleasure. If you can find
a '05-'06 in your price range, with less than 50-60K mi and solid
maintenance, I'd grab it. Oh...if you're going to drive it several days a
week in really nasty traffic...get one with "Tiptronic" automatic.
Oh...stay away from the targas. I haven't been in one of them that the
glass top didn't rattle.
Regards from Texas!
Paul Atkin
"Guru" <Gu...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:k252m.3931$Rb6....@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
> maintenance, I'd grab it. Oh...if you're going to drive it several days a
> week in really nasty traffic...get one with "Tiptronic" automatic.
transmission? somehow i never had a chance to try it, this tiptronic.
is it like one on bmw or better?
> Oh...stay away from the targas. I haven't been in one of them that the
> glass top didn't rattle.
thanks, i`ll keep that in mind.