'91 Eclipse Start Problems
KyFirestorm
I was given a 91 Eclipse 2.0L DOHC (non-turbo) two weeks ago by a man that my husband works with. I had wanted an Eagle Talon more than LIFE in 1991 when I turned 16, but sadly, I never got one. I was looking forward to starting my second childhood early by tinkering with this car and restoring it. The interior is almost pristine (except for the sagging headliner) and the exterior is in pretty good shape too. The car was driven by a teenage boy for the past several years and has several small things wrong with it. Nothing to big to handle . . . until today.
The engine has operated fine (much better than I had expected, actually) until I was pulling into the parking lot at work today. Suddenly, the engine started stuttering and acting like my speed was too low for the gear that I was in. I downshifted from third into second and got the same problem. Then, without warning, the engine died.
I coasted into a parking spot and tried to start it immediately. The engine cranked, caught, sputtered, and then died again. Almost as if it had ran out of gasoline. And yes, guys, it has gas! My husband and brother asked me the same question as soon as I talked to them, lol.
Now, here is where it gets weird. Every time I turned on the key and tried to start it, I would hear a faint "click" right behind the radio and another one coming from the rear of the car on the driver's side. This clicking noise would happen only after I released pressure on the key (after trying to start the engine) and let it return to the "run" position. Sometimes, however, it didn't do it. Then, after trying to start it for the umpteenth-million time, I began hearing what I can only describe as "clicking and whirring" from the center console, almost directly under the gearshift. It almost sounded like a computer hard drive gone nuts (like when you're trying to download a HUGE program and you can hear the computer board working like crazy). When I turn the key to the accessory-only position ("ACC" I think on the ignition) I don't hear the noise. But, when I would turn the key to the "Run" position the sound would start again. I only heard it a few times, and then it quit doing it and I haven't been able to get it to do it since. My lights are all bright as ever, so I don't think it's the battery. I've gotten out my Haynes manual and I've almost decided that it's the ECU, but I want to get some feedback from ya'll (yep, I'm from Kentucky and that was a southern yaaaaaa'll) on the forum.
Thank you for the time you've taken to read my post, and thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I'd like to get my little red "Cherry Bomb" on the road again, lol.
Julie
Chris Ferris
Have you checked the plugs and wires? I would also try a compression
test. And while your at it, check the check the oil and coolant levels.
Try checking the belts as well. Or it could be the O2 sensors failing.
And have you checked to see if the clutch is actually engaging and
disengaging? You might also want to check the ignition coil (long shot,
but you never know).
In short, a whole host of things could prevent the car from starting and
just as many could cause it to sputter and die. We need some more info
to help you. Like did a check engine light pop up, and what were the
results of checking the various things that I just asked you, and we
will need the vital stats on the car (Year, Mileage on the car, Mileage
on the Engine, Mileage on the Clutch, what were the problems you found
in the car when you first got it, how long did you have the car before
it gave you this issue, and was it showing anything else strange no
matter how insignificant it may seem?).
The people here are more than happy to help a southern bell like
yourself, but like I said we need some more info from you first.
Good evening and have a nice weekend,
CMF
(P.S. It may help if you gave us some background into how much mechanic
work you have actually done as well. Most people hear are serious gear
heads and may blow right by some of the amateurs until you tell them
that you are one.)
simpleton
is fried.
this is common. don't buy a new one from the dealer!
Nirodac
wreckers will let you try then buy, for a small restocking fee, mine did.
Got pissed after replacing two ECU's with the third, then went back and
repaired the first two.
Ray
"Stewart DIBBS" <s...@vysor.com> wrote in message
news:40001200$1_4@aeinews....
>
> "simpleton" <simp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bu6dnT2nFrn...@comcast.com...
> > the noise from your center console is an indication that your ecu
> (computer)
> > is fried. this is common. don't buy a new one from the dealer!
>
> The 2.0L DOHC non-turbo ECU is located behind the center console, and is
> quite easy to get at and out in about 10 minutes with a philips crewdriver
> and then a 10mm socket with extension. You should be able to get an ECU
from
> a wrecker for $100-200. Same engine and ECU is fitted to the DOHC Eagle
2000
> GTX / Mitsu Galant and 93 DOHC Hyndai Sonata. Just make sure you get the
> standard or automatic transmission ECU model as appropriate.
>
> Stewart DIBBS
> www.vysor.com/lancerproject
>
>
KyFirestorm
around this forum for a couple of weeks now, soaking up
the knowledge, lol. Let's see if I can send this post and
get it to show up as nice little paragraphs instead of a
long string of sentences.
The car is a 1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse. It has a 2.0L 16V
DOHC engine (but it is NOT a turbo) that is the original
engine for this car. Tranny is original as well. The
current mileage is 161,248 and I've had the car a total of
two whole weeks. The clutch is the original and hasn't
given me any problems (btw, I've driven nothing but manual
transmission cars for 5 years so I feel comfortable making
this statement without a garage looking at it) even though
the car was a little hard to get into gear when it was
extremelly cold last week. After the engine warmed up,
however, it shifted almost as easily as my Honda Accord.
Although all the lights in the dash cluster will come on
briefly when the key is first turned in the ignition (like
most cars) they will go out when the engine is started.
So, I know the bulbs aren't blown. No light came on at any
time in the last two weeks, and definately not yesterday
when the car died. I have checked all the fuses for the
car and they are all fine too.
Something minor, but somewhat related, was the fact that
the car gave me a problem last week when I first started
driving it. It had been parked since June of 2003 by the
old owner because his son bought a new car. After driving
it for a couple of days (and everything was fine) the engine
started quiting whenever I wasn't giving the car gas. I
would start the car, and it would die immediately unless I
had my foot on the gas pedal and maintained the RPMs by
pressing the pedal slightly. The car would drive, no prob,
but if I depressed the clutch to switch gears and was slow-
ing down (or my RPMs fell as I was braking) the car would
die unless I gave it gas. After checking the air filter
and finding that it was as black as coal dust and clogged,
I replaced it and the car ran fine; but now I'm wondering
if the air filter was the real problem.
While I haven't replaced the plugs and wires, I haven't
noticed the engine missing or idling odd. I had planned
to change them as part of a routine maintenance next week-
end. Likewise, the oil and coolant levels are okay, but
an oil change is probably needed and I wanted to flush out
the radiator too. Looks like my "next weekend" projects
might happen sooner than I expected. :-)
The belts are fine, but I haven't checked the O2 sensor, the
ignition coil, or performed a compression test. My plans
were to do all these things during the next month (my work
schedule permitting) and some other things as well. I was
a total tomboy growing up, and was always in the garage
helping my father on this vehicle or that. He made me
change out an engine and transmission in an old junker he
bought before he would let me have a car when I got my
license. He believed that women oughta know how to handle
themselves in the garage! One of the reasons I was so happy
to get this little car is that I wasn't scared to actually
get under the hood and do a few things. NOT something I'm
comfortable doing with my Accord or with my husband's Nissan
Pathfinder while we're paying payments, you know? I'm not
very up-to-speed on the newer cars and their systems, other
than routine maintenance issues.
There is a junkyard about 40 miles north of me that has
several Eclipse/Laser/Talon vehicles in the 1990 to 1994
model years. This looks to be my biggest supplier of parts
because I can't get much of anything at the local auto
parts stores. They either don't have them or they're staff-
ed by teenage kids who couldn't care less and will tell you
they don't carry the part you need (or they'll give you the
wrong thing). I'm going to go to the junkyard today to get
and ECU if I can and replace it. I'll post and let ya'll
know how it turns out.
Thanks again for your time and concern. I look forward to
speaking with you again.
Julie
KyFirestorm
One thing, however, has had me worrying. The noise in the
center console did not happen until I made repeated tries
to start the car. Now, I'm worrying that I've fried the
darn thing and am going to need to replace it to find the
other problem.
I did hear a muffled "click" each time I tried to start the
car; and one time the engine actually caught and ran for a second or so before quitting again. As I depressed the gas
pedal the engine sputtered and stuttered and quit like the
gas tank was empty (and I've ran out of gas a few times in
my life, lol).
I'll post as soon as I replace the ECU.
Julie
KyFirestorm
so that I'll (hopefully) be sure to find one!
We've got a junkyard near our town that is HUGE and they
let you go in and "pull" your own part. The prices are
significantly lower than at the other junkyards. Got a
Reece hitch for my hubby's Pathfinder for $15 dollars that
was practically brand new. Hopefully I can find an ECU
that'll work!
Julie
KyFirestorm
will guarantee that the part will work (or let me replace
it with another if it doesn't) before I go. I've called
the local auto parts store and the young man that answered
the phone had no idea what I was talking about and couldn't
find the part in his computer. ~sighs~
Julie
Ricky
that it is 'fried' but there is a problem with leaking capacitors causing
corrosion of the printed circuit board and gradually causing some of its
outputs to fail.. this rarely causes any other damage to the unit.
If you know someone who can do electronics / PCB repairs chances are they
could fix it for you..
the ouputs that fail are the idle speed control, some emissions controls
depending on the model, miscellaneous dash warnings on some models and the
one that never goes un-noticed, the fuel pump relay control! Because when
the key is in the start position the fuel pump relay is directly enabled
from the switch, the engine will usually start, but then die as soon as you
release the key beacuse the ECU cannot control it with the fault. If the
engine does this then it shows that the rest of the ECU is still most likely
good..
Be warned that if you get a second hand replacement ECU chances are its
capacitors will also be on the way out! It is a very simple and cheap job to
replace them if there is not yet any other damage... just do a search for
ECU capacitor replacement for more info..
Good luck!
"KyFirestorm" <lam...@nospam.bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3376ec486b68f450...@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
Chris Ferris
Not a problem. Well I'm glad to hear that you are comfortable under the
hood of your car, because these cars can be a little picky about how
they are adjusted. If you are looking for more info, I would suggest
you register with DSMtuners.com as well. They've got a couple of gear
heads there that are truly scary in there ability to diagnose and fix
some very odd issues.
With that said though, I would go with what simpleton, Stewart, and
Nirodac recommend. They seem to be the resident DSM experts here from
what I've seen.
And I can certainly relate about the parts issue, if you were lurking a
while ago I went through hell and back just to get an O2 sensor. So
your fears about local autoparts stores are justified. I would locate
your local DSM club and see what they have for info on local parts
dealers and see which ones are reputable. Local DSM clubs also tend to
have some kind of discount with said dealers. I did a little Google
search for a club that serves your area and I came up with the Midwest
Club DSM. Their website is http://mw.dsm.org/. You can also go to
http://www.partznet.com. They have a special section for DSM cars and
their prices don't seem too bad (plus simpleton seems to recommend them).
One last thing, I would recommend ditching the Haynes manual and going
with the Chilton Manual. They tend to be much more thorough and give
better pictures.
That's all I've got for now.
Have a good weekend.
Cheers,
CMF
You know you're a DSMer when you schedule giving blood around your turbo
upgrade schedule.
Nirodac
chances are the replacement ECU will have bad caps also (a ticking time
bomb). You might want to consider have the working, replacement, ECU
checked by an electronics tech, to ensure the caps aren't leaking, then have
them replaced anyway. You could have your current one also checked, and the
capacitors replaced , but there may be significant damage or corrosion to
the PCB.
Get ALL the filter capacitors replaced, there are only 3 or 4 of them and
parts cost is under $3.00. There are web pages dedicated to this type of
repair.
On one of my ECU's when the cap blew it left a crater in the PCB.
"Ricky" <ri...@notspm.ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3GZLb.7943$9k7.1...@news.xtra.co.nz...
KyFirestorm
Went to the local "pull it yourself" junkyard yesterday and
got two ECU units. Blame it on the cold, or my hubby who
was hovering nearby saying "Will this one work?" I got two
1.8L engine units! Discovered this after arriving home an
hour later and taking the old one out of my car. I know,
I know, you're always supposed to look at the part in YOUR
car first . . . but I was running short on time and decided
against driving to the Wal-Mart parking lot and taking apart
the console of my car. ~Sighs~ Sometimes lessons are learned
the hard way. On the bright side though, I dismantled and
bought a driver's side door handle (the one on my car is
broken off) for $8 and it's the same color as my car. I
might not be able to drive, but at least I can open the darn
door . . .
So, went back today. Got FOUR units because I figured that
the odds of me getting a useable one were pretty good that
way, right? And, at 50 cents each, I couldn't go wrong.
Got them home this afternoon and tried first one, then the
others, without any success. Two of them ticked and buzzed
like the one that I have is doing; the other two just sat there. I feel confident that the ECU is not the problem and
that I need to look in a different direction. Gonna keep a
few of these though, and have them looked at by an elect-
ronics guru and make sure that they're in good working order.
Who knows? I may need one someday.
And, lol, I've got a few extras for a 1.8L engine in case
anybody on here wants them. Just pay shipping! :-)
I had my hubby get in the car and I took the gas cap off and
listened as he turned the key to the "ON" position. I can't
hear the fuel pump whirring when the key is first turned on
(like you sometimes can) and so now I'm wondering if I need
a new fuel pump? I also had a friend tell me that the fuel
filter might have collapsed and to check it good when I pull
the fuel pump out.
I just had it towed home tonight. Right now I'm really
leaning towards taking it to a local shop and having them
look it over really good and give me a good diagnosis of the
possible problem before I replace anything else. My own
diagnostic abilities are in serious doubt in my household
right now, lol. The only thing that worries me about this
is the fact that I've been told most shops can't run a good
diagnostic on a vehicle if it won't run.
I've printed out all of the replies and I'm taking each and
every suggestion under advisement. Too bad ya'll don't live
in Kentucky. I might just hafta throw a car-fixing party!
I'll supply the drinks and the food . . .
Thanks again!
Julie
Nirodac
deal. Did you pull these your self or where they just laying around the
auto wrecker. Could they be "returns" to the wrecker that don't work
because they have already failed. At least pop the covers and look a the
center of the circuit board. The capacitors in question are round cylinders
about 1/2 inch high and about 1/8 to 1/4 inch in diameter. Usually have
blue plastic coverings. Check the base of these units, for corrosion or
black (as in burned) material on the circuit board. If you find this, then
chances are they can be repaired by an electronics tech, by cleaning the
board and replacing the caps.
Check out this link for more information about the ECU repairs, and the
description of a failing ECU.
http://www.tmo.com/howto/ecu1g/caps.htm
Ray
"KyFirestorm" <lam...@nospam.bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:5e427c6c75c0214e...@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
Robert Honea
battery voltage reading? If it's low, it will click too.
--
Robert T. Honea, AKA;
01010100011011110110010001100100
simpleton
dead '91, who fuel pump won't turn and has fish sauce on the pcb.....even i
can figure that one out.
"Robert Honea" <rh...@woh.rr.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:DDRMb.160284$Dp5....@fe3.columbus.rr.com...
Bornish
This topic was enlightning for somebody like me.
I hope Julie fixed her car already and will share with us how.
I have a 90 Eclipse GSR4 and it's my first car. (pls don't laugh)
Probably all of you already know all the details of this model:
turbo,AWD,DOCH 16 valve 2.0 L,manual gear,left steering (in UAE where I'm located, many cars are coming from Japan)
Unfortunately I've ignored some symptoms, not knowing how serious it was, and the ECU burned while driving, luckily in second gear at ~30 km/h.
I've crane it to a garage, took off the ECU, replaced the capacitors on the PCB and repair the hole in the PCB :) since I could not find a second-hand replacement anywhere.
A brand new one from the Mitsubishi dealer is too expensive for me, and considering the price I paid for the entire car, is out of the question.
After repairing the ECU, it seems I got sparks and fuel pressure, because I can hear & feel a repeately short combustion as long as I keep trying to crank it.
My mechanic friends are saying the injectors are not pulsed by the ECU. (I'm a software developer, so I believe them)
I've unplugged all 4 wires going in the injectors and measured the voltage and conectivity.
Each injector receives 14-15 V on both wires when turnining the ignition ON, and a variating 10-12 V while cranking.
We did lots of other sorts of tests, but could not find nothing wrong.
I've checked again and again the ECU, but since I don't have any manual or testing values to make on the board, I cannot be sure if something else got damaged.
I'm also thinking that a sensor could've been damaged when the ECU burned, and that's a good reason for me not spending money on another ECU, until I'm sure mine is not functioning correctly.
I will appreciate any hint of what to do next and how to make a correct diagnosis.
Thanks
LSupreemo
for KY --
After searching DSMTuners.com, search vfaq.org.
EVERY question re DSMs has been asked and answered.
91-94 ECUs will interchange, even tho the books sez they are
not interchangeable. Don't use one from a turbo or automatic or
1.8 liter car. Must be non-turbo stick 2.0 liter.
You can tell the turbo by a boost gauge in the tach, and the
8th digit in the VIN is "F" or "U". Look at the shifter to tell A/T
Take the cover off any prospective purchase, look around the base of
the blue cylinders. You don't want to see goop or smell dead fish.
for Bornish
<After repairing the ECU, it seems I got sparks and fuel pressure,
because I can hear & feel a repeately short combustion as long as I
keep trying to crank it.
My mechanic friends are saying the injectors are not pulsed by the ECU.
(I'm a software developer, so I believe them)
I've unplugged all 4 wires going in the injectors and measured the
voltage and conectivity.
Each injector receives 14-15 V on both wires when turnining the
ignition ON, and a variating 10-12 V while cranking.
We did lots of other sorts of tests, but could not find nothing
wrong.>
The cap repair is NOT guaranteed to fix the motherboard, which
could have other components already damaged by the bad caps.
The injectors receive voltage all the time, they are fired by being
grounded by the ECU, so check that via the harness.
LSupreemo
--
LSupreemo
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dudle...@hotmail.com
first take the ecu out and check to see if it is burnt, you will see a
problem, test the relays becide the computer see if they are working
right, the tests are in the book. check the timing belt see if it is
loose, check the trouble codes with a volt meter see if there is no
output computer is fucked, hard wire the fule pump to see if it is a
fule delevery problem, check for spark! reply back!!
Nirodac Yar
Before removing the ECU, check the diagnostic output pin. If the voltage is
high, the ECU is toast, if the voltage is low, there is no power going to
the ECU, if the output is a steady pulse, then the ECU is OK. Any other
pulsed output is an error code.
If you suspect the ECU, remove the ECU, it's located just below the radio in
the center console (medal box about 8 inches square).
Yes, open up the ECU box and look inside.
Near the middle of the circuit board are several capacitors (round
cylinders, about 3/8 diameter about 1/2 inch long), if they are leaking any
liquid, or have burned the PCB, then replace the capacitors or replace the
ECU.
Good luck.
<dudle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a274n059r4dnh6ham...@4ax.com...
Mark Gibson
a half-assed attempt to answer your question. My car is am AWD Turbo and
it has given me loads of shit...mostly because I drive it very hard.
Letting a teenage guy drive a car you buy is not wise! Trust me, I know!
Check the serpentine belt then the computer. Again, I am not a mech, so
try to find someone who is. P.S. Toss in a turbo if you get her to run...
you'll love it!
Regards,
Mark "Joan Jett fan" Gibson
Nirodac Yar <nir...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Let me add to the previous poster.
>Before removing the ECU, check the diagnostic output pin. If the voltage is
>high, the ECU is toast, if the voltage is low, there is no power going to
>the ECU, if the output is a steady pulse, then the ECU is OK. Any other
>pulsed output is an error code.
>If you suspect the ECU, remove the ECU, it's located just below the radio in
>the center console (medal box about 8 inches square).
>Yes, open up the ECU box and look inside.
>Near the middle of the circuit board are several capacitors (round
>cylinders, about 3/8 diameter about 1/2 inch long), if they are leaking any
>liquid, or have burned the PCB, then replace the capacitors or replace the
>ECU.
>Good luck.
Capacitors of the type you describe are dirt cheap. Tossing a few new
ones into the onboard compy is very nearly free, and might save hundreds
of bucks in repair charges. Most of the wiring on Eclipses is not expensive,
so you may wish to try replacing it. Labor charges are what will put a hurt
on your budget.
--
"No one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded."
-- Unknown
Kim Allen
Would anyone have or would anyone know where I can get a S/H throttle body
for my 24v 3000 '96 LWB petrol auto shogun - they seem to be rarer than hens
teeth!
Kim
Hank
I have a fuel filter issue and I can't find it on a 91 Mitsubishi Eclipse 1.8
L where is it located on the car
--
for full context, visit http://www.motorsforum.com/mitsubishi/91-eclipse-start-problems-6200-.htm