2002 Cougar vs. 2002 Eclipse

[scarbox]

I have just graduated from college and have gotten my first real job
;p I'm planning to buy my first new car this April. I'm looking for
a sports coupe that's around $17k price range.

Anyway, if it comes down to 2002 Mercury Cougar V6 sport and
Mitsubishi Eclipse GS, which one would any of you choose and why?
I've done my research but I need opinions from people who actually
owns one of these. The reason I'm leaning towards the Cougar a bit is
it's V6 and 170 hp unlike the Eclipse GS which is V4 and 140 hp. Gas
mileage for both are the same. Cougar supposedly have more room in
the back. Cougar is $1000 cheaper. There's also the factor that not
everyone drives a Cougar. Both of them have the same stuff included
in their standard package (power everything, anti-theft, AC, CD and
etc.). The Eclipse, on the other hand, has the "cool" factor. It
just looks good ;p

Any other car suggestions? I don't like tiny little cars by the way.

[gsh...@fuse.net]

I drove both before I bought a 200 Eclipse GT. My wife and I did a
test drive of each. We didn't even get out of the parking lot before
she turned to me and said, "Forget this one!". It drove like a pig.
The fit and finish were atrocious. The body shape is nice, but that's
where it ended. The interior looks and feels CHEAP.

Go for the Eclipse. But consider the GT v6.

Gary

[Mike...@lycos.com]

Sure, Price and drive the 200 HP V6 Mustang. I think once you do you
will not buy either of the others.

mike

[Keith Westra]

After testing a v6 mustang, then go for a V8 and I think you will not buy
any of the others!
<Mike...@lycos.com> wrote in message news:3C6BE6B0...@lycos.com...

[Josh]

Hmmm....well, the V6 Mustang has only 190hp. Plus its acceleration is much
slower. There's also the fact that it is about the same price. I could go on
and on.

Josh

[scarbox]

"Josh" <jki...@student.bcc.ctc.edu> wrote in message news:<u6piseb...@corp.supernews.com>...

The Mustang GT is out of my price range. The Mustang Coupe (the V-6
version) has a pretty good price tag. So I guess my choices are
these: Eclipse GS, Cougar V6 Sport, and Mustang Coupe.

I have to admit one thing, and don't flame me on this, I'm not into
speed. How the car *looks*, how it handles, and how comfortable the
ride, are the most important priority for me. Horse power is not my
#1 priority because 80% of the time this would be city driving in a
traffic forsaken country.

[Ed]

I had driven the Mustang GT at a car show a couple years ago. I was
surprised at how easy it was to kick the ass out in a turn. I was
unimpressed. The Eclipse GS is a dog, plaina nd simple. I wouldn't let
granny drive it. The Eclipse GT hasn't got the handling to match it's
power. Too easy to toss. The Cougar V6, while not the sprightliest of the
bunch, provided, to me, the best balance of straight-line and twisty
performance. It felt confident, and I felt the car was a respectable
balance between power and handling. I bought the 2001 Cougar v6, and I've
been extremely happy with my choice.
Be aware, though, that 2002 has been announced as the last year of the
cat.

Ed
"scarbox" <scarb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c1516bc.02021...@posting.google.com...

[BenD...@mailcity.com]

That's true but then the car would likely cost more, not less than the
other two, and be more difficult to insure to a young driver. Of course
you would get a LOT more bang for the buck.

mike

[BenD...@mailcity.com]

Apparently you have never driven or priced a 2002 Mustang.

mike

[BenD...@mailcity.com]

You are correct, it is not about speed. Either one will run only as
fast as limited set by the tire rating. It should be about handling and
QUICKNESS. Those attributes are a given, when it comes to the superior
handling of RWD and torque developed at low RPM by the Mustang. When you
factor in the drive home price, the Mustang V6 should be the clear
choice.

mike

[BenD...@mailcity.com]

I own a 2001 Mustang GT convertible. I drive it all winter, here in the
mountains of Pa without kicking the ass out. If you were kicking the
ass out, a little driver training can cure that. ;)

mike

[scarbox]

BenD...@mailcity.com wrote in message news:<3C6D2CB6...@mailcity.com>...

> You are correct, it is not about speed. Either one will run only as
> fast as limited set by the tire rating. It should be about handling and
> QUICKNESS. Those attributes are a given, when it comes to the superior
> handling of RWD and torque developed at low RPM by the Mustang. When you
> factor in the drive home price, the Mustang V6 should be the clear
> choice.

I've read some reviews that complained about the rough handling of the
2002 Mustang. They said you'll feel all the bumps on the road. Ugh.
I do a lot of long distance driving and being comfortable is important
to me.

What about the 2002 Celica GT? I caught a glimpse of it at one time.
Is it just me or is that car a bit too small? The biggest advantage
of the Celica GT is the gas mileage. You get 29/36 rather than 21/29
from these other choices. But the car seems a bit tiny.

[Genie]

scarbox,
Earlier in this thread you wrote "Horse power is not my

#1 priority because 80% of the time this would be city driving in a traffic
forsaken country."

Now you do "a lot of long distance driving", which one is more important??

--
Thanks,
Genie

"scarbox" <scarb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c1516bc.02021...@posting.google.com...

[Ed]

Mike,
I'm a driving enthusiast. I kicked the ass out because I wanted to see
what the car could handle. There aren't too many non-pro's that I can't
out-drive. Now, I'm not talking acceleration; I mean DRIVING. I felt the
Mustang could have been a lot stickier in the ass end. I had expected a
good bit more from the car. I also kicked out the ass on a 2001 Corvette
the same day, but that was on a tight 240 degree turn at around 80 MPH. The
Vette gave good response and was easy to toe back into line. The Mustang
just felt "sloppy" and vague. It's a solid car, but my impression was that
it was much more concerned with the straight line than the twisties, and I
prefer twisty driving to straight line accelleration. It's just an opinion.

Ed

<BenD...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:3C6D2D9F...@mailcity.com...

> I own a 2001 Mustang GT convertible. I drive it all winter, here in the
> mountains of Pa without kicking the ass out. If you were kicking the
> ass out, a little driver training can cure that. ;)
>
> mike
>
>
>
> Ed wrote:
> >
> > I had driven the Mustang GT at a car show a couple years ago. I was
> > surprised at how easy it was to kick the ass out in a turn. I was

> > unimpressed. The Eclipse GS is a dog, plain and simple. I wouldn't let

[Ed]

The Celica GT is under-optioned and over-priced.

"scarbox" <scarb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c1516bc.02021...@posting.google.com...

["Mike...@lycose.com]

Sorry but I thought your post gave the impression that the slide was not
controllable. I agree, if you are not going through a turn with
somewhat of a controlled rear slide, you are not going through the turn
as fast as you can. If you are an enthusiast, than you know that RWD
will outperform a FWD vehicle anytime on the twisties. All high speed
performance cars are RWD for that reason.

mike hunt

["Mike...@lycose.com]

Drive all three then decide would be my advise.

mike hunt

[scarbox]

"Genie" <genie(nospam)@citcom.net> wrote in message news:<a4jms9$3s3v$1...@news3.infoave.net>...

> scarbox,
> Earlier in this thread you wrote "Horse power is not my
> #1 priority because 80% of the time this would be city driving in a traffic
> forsaken country."
>
> Now you do "a lot of long distance driving", which one is more important??

Here's my priority from #1 being the most important:

1) It has to look cool ;p Call me superficial, but I've been dreaming
of getting a cool looking car since highschool.

2) It has to be comfortable for the driver and passenger. I want to
be able to drive my car from Austin to Dallas (200 miles each way)
without blowing my back. The less road bump I feel the better.

3) It has to be in the $17k - $18k price range and includes AC, CD,
power windows and power locks.

4) Good handling.

5) I don't want tiny cars.

Least imporant:
1) Speed. I want good acceleration. I rarely go above 70 mph.

I don't keep up with the latest models. In fact, I've just started my
research a week ago. I'd like to narrow down my search to 2-3 cars
before heading to the car dealer for a test drive.

[Tina M Bloom]

don't foget the wrx w/ the all wheel drive can out manoover FWD & RWD cars
on the turns , but since you don't see any snow the all wheel drive won't be
needed.

[May...@ptdprolog.net]

That's a given, but the Subaru costs 24K not 18K

mike

[Ed]

That could be a matter of debate, but we're not talking about any high-speed
performance cars here. The only all-out sports car we've really mentioned
at all is the vette, and that was only in passing. All of the other cars
discussed here have varying degrees of worthiness to bear the title "sporty
car." The Mustang, to me, is a nostalgic muscle car. I don't think it has
anywhere near the handling to be a sports car.

ed

<"Mike Hunt"@lycose.com> wrote in message
news:3C6D883C...@lycose.com...

[Illuzhun]

Then go test drive a fully loaded 2002 911 Porsche, and you'll cry when you
realize you have to drive anything reasonably priced. After that you can
try out an F117, and realize that with pretty much anything you buy there is
always going to be someone faster.

I

"Keith Westra" <ss_we...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o3_a8.8469$qt6.7...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Mike...@mailcity.com]

That's true, but not what I suggested. I was speaking of the three
similarly equipped and priced vehicles, Eclipse, Cougar and Mustang,
which to me is the only way to compare ANY vehicle. There is no
question the V6 Mustang offers more car for less money.

mike

[Mike...@mailcity.com]

It certainly does have sufficient performance to out run and out perform
the Cougar and Eclipse and those are the cars in which he is interested.
In addition RWD cars are less expensive to buy maintain and repair.

mike

[Ed]

Outrun, yes. Outperform, depends on the kind of performance. You've made
it very clear that you're a Mustang fanatic. Why are you hanging out in a
Cougar group? Looking for converts? Your presence here doesn't appear to
make much sense. Not suggesting anything, mind you, just questioning your
motives.

Ed

<Mike...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:3C6EAB2A...@mailcity.com...

[XBlakMagik]

Just check out www.newcougar.org, our forums/message board are at
forums.fastcougar.com, we'll at least be able to give you more info on the
Cougar.

[Ilene...@lycose.com]

Just trying to give some advice. I have probably owned more Cougars
than most people in this NG have owned cars. I stopped buying Cougars
when Ford started selling the FWD Probe as a Cougar. I believe the term
FWD sports car, is an oxymoron. I have nothing against the FWD Cougar
and would recommend it, over several competitors to anyone looking for a
FWD 2 dr car, but if they are looking for a sporty car FWD in not the
car to look for IMO. If one is looking for something sporty at a price,
as was that fellow, then the Mustang is the car is all I'm saying. I'm
a car guy I go into many NG's foreign and domestic. This NG at one time
was full of Cougar guys taking about performance and handling. When the
99 came along and the big topic was 'what kind of stereo or alarm system
should I put in my car,' most of the cars guys moved on and left the NG
to the ladies and the kids, sad.

mike

[Ed]

It's funny, though. Every message you've posted has been about the pro's of
a Mustang and the con's of a Cougar. You sound much less like someone
trying help, and more like someone who works on the Mustang assembly line
trying desperately to keep his job alive until he retires. You've claimed
to be old enough to be a grandfather -- most people, by that age, have
adopted a much more "live and let live" attitude about something as
unimportant as the type of car one drives.
Personally, I feel there are two different types of sporty; "modern" and
"traditional." The Mustang is a traditional sporty car. There's no denying
it. A live rear axle is hardly conducive to great handling, however, (I'm
not 100% certain the Mustang is still live-axle, but since I've not heard
differently, I'll assume it is), and that's where the modern sporty cars
come in. Come on, the Acura Integra, Mitsu Eclipse, Cougar, Celica, etc;
none of these are sporty cars, in your opinion? Sorry, pal, that's not the
opinion of someone I'd want to listen to.

Ed

<Ilene...@lycose.com> wrote in message news:3C70444B...@lycose.com...

[Mike...@mailcity.com]

that's not true but you are entitled to your opinion. I own two sporty
cars both RWD, one a 2001 Mustang GT convertible with a LIVE axle and
the other with an independent rear end, a 2002 Lincoln LS V8. The
Mustang will out handle the Lincoln at any normal speed. The lincoln
does better at speeds over 125 mph, however. Either one will run rings
around the new Cougar. Like I said I love Cougars and I am currently
negotiating to buy a 1978. I never liked FWD particularly after owning
a few and I never like the FWD Cougar even when it was still a Probe.

mike

[Ed]

Whatever, dude. Live and let live. That's a neat cloud you're living on...
That's pretty funny that you're calling a nearly 2 ton (3700+ lbs, dry
weight) luxury sedan a sporty car. And you think that can out corner a
Cougar? Man, the 60's must have done a helluva job on you. Didn't you hear
them telling you not to eat the brown acid??

Ed

<Mike...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:3C713981...@mailcity.com...

[BenD...@mailcity.com]

That 3700 LB Lincoln LS will go around a curve faster than the V6 Cougar
can go on the straight. Now that is a sporty sedan LOL

mike

[scarbox]

"Ed" <ese...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<PDJb8.3786$UT6....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>...

> Outrun, yes. Outperform, depends on the kind of performance. You've made
> it very clear that you're a Mustang fanatic. Why are you hanging out in a
> Cougar group? Looking for converts? Your presence here doesn't appear to
> make much sense. Not suggesting anything, mind you, just questioning your
> motives.

I think he's just throwing around ideas because I asked them to. In
which case, I'm glad he did. I didn't know I could get the 2002
Mustang Coupe for the same price but with better package. I found out
also that Ford has some sort of incentive program for newly college
grads (me!) and will give me back $400. It also applies to Cougar.

The only reason I wouldn't want a Mustang is, everyone in my
neighborhood has one. Seriously, I saw only 1 Cougar in my
neighborhood about once a week but I see 10 different variation of
Mustangs everytime I go out for groceries.

[BenD...@mailcity.com]

That should tell you something about the cars as well don't you think?
More Mustangs are sold by far than Cougars in the same price range.
Don't Forget this is the last year for the FWD Cougar.

mike

[boggs]

the only person i know who has one of these cougars has had constant
problems.
the largest being a failure in the oil pump that took the motor down. the
dealer service techs privately advised this person that the car was a p/o/s
and to sell it.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.317 / Virus Database: 176 - Release Date: 22/01/02

[Ed]

N*Sync and the Backstreet Boys sell shitloads of records, but that don't
make it music...

Ed

<BenD...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:3C72DD5B...@mailcity.com...

[Leonard Migliore]

In article <xstc8.92366$Pz4.377843@rwcrnsc53>, Ed <ese...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Whatever, dude. Live and let live. That's a neat cloud you're living on...
> That's pretty funny that you're calling a nearly 2 ton (3700+ lbs, dry
> weight) luxury sedan a sporty car. And you think that can out corner a
> Cougar? Man, the 60's must have done a helluva job on you. Didn't you hear
> them telling you not to eat the brown acid??
>
> Ed

Well, I've been through the '60s too (at least I think i have), so it's
easy for me to believe that a Lincoln LS can outhandle a Cougar. And I
own a '99 Cougar. My car is none too light (3200 lbs, I believe) and
it's all on the front wheels. If Ford did the LS right, it could be
much more neutral than the Cougar and handle in a more balanced
fashion.

[scarbox]

"boggs" <g.b...@spamfree.net> wrote in message news:<_6Dc8.104461$Zc.29...@news2.rdc1.mi.home.com>...

> the only person i know who has one of these cougars has had constant
> problems.
> the largest being a failure in the oil pump that took the motor down. the
> dealer service techs privately advised this person that the car was a p/o/s
> and to sell it.

You really can't judge it by that one experience. There's this one
guy who told me that he'll never ever buy a Honda in his life because
his girlfriend's brand new Honda gave nothing but breakdowns.

[BenD...@mailcity.com]

It sure is, compared to rap. LOL

mike

[BenD...@mailcity.com]

That may be true, but there are thousand that have no problems, as well.
Surely you don't believe one can judge all Cougar by one persons
experience with their vehicle do you?

mike hunt

[BenD...@mailcity.com]

They did, the weight balance is nearly 50/50.

mike hunt

[Adrienne]

Maybe a lot of the failures are because people are trying to take the car
way past its limits. Running them too fast and too hard. This car was
never designed to be a dragster, it was designed to look different. This is
my first Cougar, I have a 2001 with about 13,000 miles. Only problem so far
has been squeaky brakes. Never was fixed, they said they couldn't hear it,
so I just live with it. I had 2 Ford Taurus' before this..one a 4-cylinder
5 speed which I put 160,000 miles on before selling it, another 6 cylinder
automatice with 150,000 when somebody hit me and totalled it. I fully
intend for this Cougar to last at least as long as that. I run my cars till
they die. Ease up on these poor little cars, and drive them sensibly.
<BenD...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:3C73B60A...@mailcity.com...

[boggs]

like i said...it was the service techs, that is the mechanics at the dealer
told her the car was crap and to dump it. they said they saw a lot of
problems with the cougar.
ford has a lot of weird problems. i work in the service parts industry and
see some strange things.
to be honest i wouldn't consider purchasing either car.........

<BenD...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:3C73B60A...@mailcity.com...

Version: 6.0.317 / Virus Database: 176 - Release Date: 23/01/02

["Ilene ...@mailcity.com]

In really there is little you can do to hurt any vehicle by driving it
fast or hard. As long as you are not speed shifting and holding the
brakes to lock up the converter you should be able to drive anyway you
want. They are made to be run and actually will do better, than is you
baby them.

mike hunt

.

[boggs]

"Adrienne" <adrie...@home.com> wrote in message
news:FiWc8.35855$gW4.19...@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com...

>This car was never designed to be a dragster, it was designed to look
different.

i dunno..it really looks a lot like a 2G dsm to me, except it has a big
crease running down the side.

>This is my first Cougar, I have a 2001 with about 13,000 miles. Only
problem so far
> has been squeaky brakes. Never was fixed, they said they couldn't hear
it,
> so I just live with it.

you may wish to swap out your pads. some make more noise than others. pad
squeal is not an indication of poor quality, some of the best racing pads
are noisey.
check this link:
http://www.spmotorsports.com/contour_brakepads.html

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.317 / Virus Database: 176 - Release Date: 24/01/02

[Jeff Novotny]

Adrienne wrote:
>
> Maybe a lot of the failures are because people are trying to take the car
> way past its limits. Running them too fast and too hard. This car was
> never designed to be a dragster, it was designed to look different.

snip ...

> Ease up on these poor little cars, and drive them sensibly.

Ummm ... well, this is a car that costs almost $30,000 CDN new and it
has a V-6 engine and a sporty design. It needs to stand up to *some*
hard driving. I mean, it's not a 325i or anything. But this isn't like a
little Cavalier where you call it a "poor little car" and say it's only
for your kid sister to take to the mall. If one wants sensible, one
should buy a Camry, not a sports coupe. LOL! And *that's* why the
Cougar's being cancelled. It didn't deliver on its promise.

Best;
Jeff

[boggs]

> The only reason I wouldn't want a Mustang is, everyone in my
> neighborhood has one. Seriously, I saw only 1 Cougar in my
> neighborhood about once a week but I see 10 different variation of
> Mustangs everytime I go out for groceries.

but then you could also look at it this way:
the mustang is very well supported by the aftermarket, parts are cheap.....
the mustang is also a rear drive. if you know how to drive, a rear drive is
the better way to go. greg

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.317 / Virus Database: 176 - Release Date: 21/01/02

[Adrienne]

When I say hard driving I am talking about constant jack rabbit starts,
revving up the engine on a manual transmission (which I have), and just
generally being an idiot. I guess there needs to be a distinction between a
"sports car" and a "sporty car". The Cougar is a sporty car. It is in the
class with cars like the Miata and the Celica...sporty but not true sports
cars. When I got this car, my youngest daughter just had to have me peel
out for her, which it does easily, sometimes even when I don't want it to.
But it's not something I do every time I go out. And because the Cougar is
sporty, I have young kids pull up next to me all the time wanting to rev it
up a little. Because I do drive sensibly, I can get about 150,000 miles
out of the original clutch (had one clutch last 260,000 miles when I sold
the vehicle, it still had the original clutch), I fully expect to put
150,000 to 200,000 miles on this car before I get rid of it. If you want
power, get a corvette. Speed is for the race track, not the public
highways.

I think the Cougar does deliver on it's promise. Now, if you have the 4
cylinder version then you can talk about not delivering. I was originally
going to get the 4 cylinder, but I couldn't get all the features I wanted on
it. Then I test drove a 4 cylinder, it was the doggiest 4 cylinder I have
ever driven. It was worse than the Cavalier I was driving prior to the
Cougar (which I only bought in a pinch when some idiot hit and run driver
totalled my previous car). Since people say the Cougar was directed at
women, then it did what it was supposed to. I don't think I ever saw a
single advertisement for the Cougar on television or in a magazine. My kids
pointed them out to me. Maybe that's why it wasn't successful. But I sure
do see a lot of them running around here in Indianapolis. My kids have owned
several of the older Eclipse/Talon/Laser's...they have been nothing but
trouble. Transmission and engine failures in every one of them. Turned me
off from ever buying a Mitsubishi. Everybody told me to buy a Honda for
reliability, but did I? nope. I bought a shiny new Rio Red Cougar with the
sport package, sunroof, manual transmission, and the upgraded wheels. It's
cute, people always comment on how bright the red is, it gets great gas
mileage, and it was in my price range. I got exactly what I wanted. I
guess I just get tired of people saying how many problems they have, when
they might want to take a good hard look at their driving habits.

I'll get off my soap box now.............

"Jeff Novotny" <j.no...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3C75C295...@sympatico.ca...

[99]

Here's a new twist...

Test drive a 2002 Dodge Stratus/RT Coupe...V6 3.0 w/5speed or even the V6
3.0 with Auto-Stic.
I found it to be a well equipped Eclipse...but with more Class.

"scarbox" <scarb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c1516bc.02021...@posting.google.com...

[Keith Westra]

Hmmm, thats not what I meant by recommending a GT. I didn't recommend an
elitest Cobra, I just do not like the standard V6. If I drive a car with a
performance heritage like the Cougar had, or the Mustang has, I would like
it to be equipted with a V8.

This whole debate is exactly why I will never ask for advice in purchasing a
new car.

"Illuzhun" <illu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Jhmb8.64276$fK1.4178043@rwcrnsc54...
> Then go test drive a fully loaded 2002 911 Porsche, and you'll cry when
you
> realize you have to drive anything reasonably priced. After that you can
> try out an F117, and realize that with pretty much anything you buy there
is
> always going to be someone faster.
>
> I
>
> "Keith Westra" <ss_we...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:o3_a8.8469$qt6.7...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > After testing a v6 mustang, then go for a V8 and I think you will not
buy
> > any of the others!
> > <Mike...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:3C6BE6B0...@lycos.com...
> > > Sure, Price and drive the 200 HP V6 Mustang. I think once you do you
> > > will not buy either of the others.
> > >
> > > mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > scarbox wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have just graduated from college and have gotten my first real job
> > > > ;p I'm planning to buy my first new car this April. I'm looking
for
> > > > a sports coupe that's around $17k price range.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, if it comes down to 2002 Mercury Cougar V6 sport and
> > > > Mitsubishi Eclipse GS, which one would any of you choose and why?
> > > > I've done my research but I need opinions from people who actually
> > > > owns one of these. The reason I'm leaning towards the Cougar a bit
is
> > > > it's V6 and 170 hp unlike the Eclipse GS which is V4 and 140 hp.
Gas
> > > > mileage for both are the same. Cougar supposedly have more room in
> > > > the back. Cougar is $1000 cheaper. There's also the factor that
not
> > > > everyone drives a Cougar. Both of them have the same stuff included
> > > > in their standard package (power everything, anti-theft, AC, CD and
> > > > etc.). The Eclipse, on the other hand, has the "cool" factor. It
> > > > just looks good ;p
> > > >
> > > > Any other car suggestions? I don't like tiny little cars by the
way.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>