Mk2 rebuild/ XJ6 parts
TVS
how difficult it would be to transplant the running gear on to a Mk2 saloon.
My Grandfather's Mk2 has been siting in the garage now for over 30 years...
the body is surprisingly good, but mechanically its in a bad way. The engine
is totally sized and all the brakes are also sized and the disks are badly
pitted. The XJ6 is running but with terminal body rot.
I was considering making a subframe to hold the suspension parts and
differential etc This could then be bolted to the underside of the Mk2 body.
I don't know if the wheel track is the same....
I would, of corse, be keeping all the original parts so at some time in the
future I could return it to original condition.
I would be very grateful for any feed back on this idea.... Thanks, Toby.
Kevin Lawton
I think you might well be in for a bit of a 'rough ride' if you attempt
this.
You don't say whether the XJ6 is a series or an XJ40 model - it makes a
difference. The series models used versions of the XK engine as does the
MkII, whereas the XJ40 uses the AJ6 engine (or AJ16) like the XJS (like my
XJS).
For a start, mechanical chassis restoration on a MkII is pretty
straightforward. Not only are al parts available as standard, but several
'chassis tuning' kits are available which will make it handle like a more
modern car. A couple of kits are available that provide a custom made front
subframe which will take the power-assisted rack-and-pinion steering from an
XJ6.
At the back end you are in for more of a problem. From the E-type onwards -
Mk10 and S-type -Jaguar used an independent rear suspension system which is
still, with only small detail changes, around today. The MkII uses a live
(beam) axle. A couple of specialists provide kits that will give you all the
rear axle location and handling you would need. When Jaguar decided to fit
their small (medium ?) saloon with IRS, they had to re-design the whole rear
floor and chassis area. The diff, brakes, wishbones, etc are all located
within a large pressed steel subframe which is located on four rubber mounts
to the underside. If you look at a MkII and S-type side by side you'll see
that the S-type has a much longer rear end to accommodate the IRS. You could
achieve the conversion, but it would take a helluva lot of metalwork. You'd
also find yourself with a lot less boot space and, probably, a very much
reduced value MkII.
My advice (I guess that's why you posted) is DON'T DO IT.
A MkII with original Engine, Gearbox (especially MOD), etc is a valuable
classic. Appreciated by many with tons of character if not over-restored.
Keeping the 'correct' Engine with the car is important from the classic
enthusiasts point of view. In really good Jaguar engineer should be able to
free-off a siezed engine with minimal damage, and you might find that it
does not take too much work to make it a runner. Even if it needs a rebore
and crankgrind, then it's worth it for originality's sake.
If you particularly want something with the classic looks of a MkII, but
with IRS then why not sell the MkII to an appreciative enthusiast who will
restore it and buy an S-type ?
If you want a MkII which handles better, then why not re-build what you have
using the appropriate suspension kits from one of the various specialists ?
You could probably do a temporary engine transplant from the scrap XJ6 while
the Correct MkII XK unit was being worked on. This would be more of a
problem if the XJ6 is an XJ40 as the block and mounts are different. The
other thing is that the AJ6 or AJ16 unit from an XJ40, or a 4.2 XK unit from
a late series 3 XJ6, will have fuel injection, electronic ignition and
engine management. This would introduce yet another complication with wiring
and fuel arrangements. It could be done, but at what cost ? ( both in terms
of money / time and in the destruction of a valuable classic).
If you are after a good use for the running gear from the scrap XJ6, then
why not acquire an XJ6 which is sound in body but needs the engine and / or
gearbox ? This route would at least yield a running car in a reasonable time
as you'd be transplanting like-for-like.
I have a few details of people who supply handling mods for MkIIs if you
decide to take that route.
If you are looking for a worthy custodian for the MkII, who will give it the
TLC it deserves, and keep it original then could I please volunteer. I'd
promise to restore the car sympathetically, and send photos as the work was
done. I really love the old MkII, but can't come close to affording a
properly restored one. The big problem with trying to find one 'ripe for
restoration' is that many people don't appreciate them and they get broken
up for spares. We only have a limited supply of genuinely original MkIIs
left, I would dearly love to be party to helping one to stay with us.
Feel free to get in touch direct or via the group if you want more info (or
if you'd allow the MkII to go to an appreciative new home). I'll be
interested to hear how the project goes.
Regards,
Kev. ('93 XJS, but wants a MkII as well).
TVS <TK...@Clara.Net> wrote in message
news:i53K4.12763$Kc.2...@nnrp3.clara.net...
nos...@aol.com
> Toby,
> I think you might well be in for a bit of a 'rough ride' if you attempt
> this.
> You don't say whether the XJ6 is a series or an XJ40 model - it makes a
> difference. The series models used versions of the XK engine as does the
> MkII, whereas the XJ40 uses the AJ6 engine (or AJ16) like the XJS (like my
> XJS).
Around here (South Africa), we had a Mark II in the local concours last
year, which had been entered in the Concours d'Mechanique category
(mechanical modifications). A local rebuilder had kitted the Mk2 out with
the XJ40's AJ6 engine, complete with EFI and the works, and ABS (and
possibly also the suspension, though I didn't look). Apart from twin XJ6
fuel filler caps, it was externally identical to a standard Mk2, but
internally, it was an amazing conversion.
Graeme Adamson
--
========================================================
Graeme Adamson, clay...@iname.com
If it can't be expressed in figures, it is not science;
it is opinion. - L. Long
========================================================
Peter Hugo
As a nice original Mk2 (what engine?) with what sounds like good provenance
& presumably relatively low mileage the car has a specific value as it is.
It will cost you a huge amount to convert satisfactorily as you suggest and
the car will lose rather than gain value. And if it is going to be done then
it has to be to perfection. The specialists such as Beecham have spent
fortunes perfecting these conversions, sell the cars for vast sums (and
superb they are too) on account of their reputations and when they
eventually appear on the used market are sold for a fraction of their cost.
It was difficult & expensive enough for us to convert a Series Three XJ6
into a 3.6 + `J` Gate - and that was with skilled people & good tools.
Spend £1,500 or so getting the car mechanically straight and enjoy it for
what it is.
Peter Hugo
TVS
don't want to do anything to the Mk2 that can't be undone. I'm not about to
attack it with an angle grinder and MIG welder ;-)
So I can see the flowing problems :
Engine : The original (3.4) is sized. Ive had the head off and filled the
cylinders with freeing oils for months with success. But the XJ6 has a 4.2
XK engine... which I believe, might just fit. If so I would use that until I
could rebuild the 3.4 But, could I use the original 'box (with OD) on the
4.2 engine? The 4.2 is a auto... which I could never live with! :-()
Brakes: Apparently the car had two serious brake failures when it was on the
road... but I don't know any more about that. I think the disk could be
turned down to remove the pitting... but the callipers are also sized. I
don't know if they could be reconditioned. But new ones (if available) are
out of the question - the budget is far too small!
Suspension: I'm quite happy with the live axle set-up - I was only wondering
if I could use the XJ6 (S3) parts as it would save all the problems with the
brakes.
Wiring loom: Non existent. Again I'm hoping to use the XJ6 one as I could
then retain the EFI set-up... it just seems easier as its running!
Rust (!) : Only the inner wheel arches are in a bad way... there is a bloke
down the road who does welding. He's very good and cheap... but can take
MONTHS to do the work. I'm in no rush... its still more of a viability study
at the moment.
Again thanks for the advice... any suggestions on the above would be much
appreciated. Toby.
jtf
Looks like it's all been said, here's my ten bobs worth....
Various people have fitted XJ40 AJ6 engines to MK2's, such as Beechams in NZ
(as mentioned by Peter Hugo), to do so they have to HEAVILY modify the
bulkhead, as the AJ6 engine is longer. They also fit massively reworked
heating and ventilation gear, as the new engine takes over the chamber
beneath the pop-up ventilator on the scuttle. Apparently they are now
fitting Jag V8's, inc. XJR/XKR supercharged units to MK2's...
Fitting the S111 XJ6 4.2 is q.easy if you convert to carbs, a lot more
complicated if you want to retain fuel injection, as a lot of the
anciliaries bolted to the engine clash with structural parts of the engine
bay., you also need to fit masses of anciliary components for the brain,
electrics and fuel supply.
Fitting alternative front suspension subframes is just not on, even though
the wishbone arrangement may look similar at a first glance. The XJ40
subframe is TOTALLY different in design, with the subframe mounts a lot
higher up within the XJ40's bodyshell and the track is much wider.
Ditto the S1~111 XJ subframe. Although it mounts at a similar height to a
MK2's, it is wider, the rack gets in the way of the sump and chassis rails,
and what are you going to do about a top damper mounting?? On the MK2, the
damper mounts within the subframe, on an XJ6 (and XJ40 for that matter) it
mounts within a reinforced structural 'box' on the bodyshell.
If you want to 'update' a MK2 front end, 420 uprights (and brakes) plus a
rack kit from (say) David Manners or Vicarage could be the way to go, set up
properly, the Rack conversion is as nice a system as you'll get on a MK2,
unless you can get a 'Variomatic' equipped late MK2 or (better still) 420
subframe AND set up the tracking properly. (cos they never are!!). New
rubber bits and dampers and you'll have a front suspension almost as good as
any XJ6 for a LOT less hassle.
Re. the rear end, a few years ago some mates and I (with the help of a 4
poster hoist) measured up a MK2 and a 420 around the rear suspension area to
see what would be involved in doing the transplant of a complete IRS. We
decided that it COULD be done, but wasn't worth the hassle to do properly.
(Hows YOUR welding...?!) Our method would have involved cutting a huge
chunk out of the MK2's rear seat pan, rear bulkhead, front-of-boot, rear
spring hanger, rear floor and inner wheelarch area, killing a 420 or 'S'
type bodyshell by cutting out the corresponding area, welding the whole lot
in, fitting a complete 'S' type IRS (with frame) and somehow finding space
for a new made-up fuel tank that would have held about 5 gallons!! You'd
then need to sort the prop shaft, and re-run brake lines and pipes.
Re. the rear end, I plan to investigate the bolt-on rear coil kit offered by
Harvey Bailey, from what I've heared it makes a big difference to the feel
of the car. There is also a cheaper weld-in kit from David Manners, though
this requires a lot of non-removable mods. to the axle and rear bodyshell.
I like the idea of keeping mods. 'bolt-on' as I can always convert back to
standard if required.
Regards, Tris Foulds. trisf...@netscapeonline.co.uk
Peter Hugo
Peter Hugo
jtf <j...@breathemail.net> wrote in message
news:38fdb...@news1.vip.uk.com...
jtf
>Engine : The original (3.4) is sized...
Sounds like the rings, last siezed engine I freed off was a 2.5 V8, heads
off, loads of oil (WD40 in my case!) and GENTLY rock the crank back and
forth a bit at a time, it eventually freed off. Take the rods and pistons
out, with luck, new rings and a hone you may be in business! (The DV8
certainly is!!)
Though your idea with the 4.2 seems sound, only problem you may have is with
the bushing at the end of the crank that takes the gearbox input shaft, your
3.4 flywheel/clutch should fit, though not sure of balance etc. Compare no.
of teeth around 4.2 auto flywheel/flexplate and 3.4 flywheel to make sure
that one of your starters will fit. If you're swapping heads around, watch
out for the water passages at the flywheel end of the block and head.
>Brakes: Apparently the car had two serious brake failures...
MK2'S have a single circuit braking system. If any of the brake pipes fail,
you'd better make sure your handbrake works well, cos you'll have no brakes!
Replace those pipe's!!
>Suspension: I'm quite happy with the live axle set-up - I was only
wondering if I could use the XJ6 (S3) parts as it would save all the
problems with the brakes......
I've heard that XJ6 front uprights and brakes can be persuaded to fit MK2
upper & lower wishbones, but the ride height gets mucked up (think it gets
raised by an inch or so) and the geometry on turns isn't too good, but I've
heard that racers in Aus. do this mod...
>Wiring loom: Non existent. Again I'm hoping to use the XJ6 one as I could
then retain the EFI set-up... it just seems easier as its running!......
Good luck!! Recon it would be easier to make your own loom and splice in
the XJ6 EFI bit if you REALLY want the fuel injection! The only tricky bit
of the MK2 loom is connecting up the dash switches and instruments, the rest
is a very simple system, bit like an overgrown Morris Minor!
Rust etc, well you've seen the car!! The really nasty bits to repair on a
MK2 are the front bulkhead area where it meets the inner/outer sills, you
see a lot of cars where the bonnet won't sit properly at the scuttle/rear of
the front wing because the shell is sagging and the front wing tops are
raised slightly about 4" in front of the scuttle. The other pain is the
rear spring hangers and surrounding metalwork, though this area can get
quite surprisingly bad before bits start falling off! Sills are easy to fix
up to MOT standard, but difficult to get right, the front crossmember is not
too difficult to sort properly, though if that needs doing, the front
valance may need doing too. Check out the rear seatbelt mounts too, esp.
the bottom one (take the rear seats out), check the rear seat pan and the
inner rear wheelarch seam whilst you are at it! I've also seen rusted
'chassis' rails on otherwise q. good cars. The list of potential rust woes
for MK2 is long, varied and very depressing, but then the newest is now over
31 years old!!
Best of luck, let us know how you get on.