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2001 Honda Civic EX MIL on with Misfire codes
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Adsiz
Oct 18, 2014, 4:29:40 AM10/18/14
to
I have a Honda Civic 2001 EX Coupe and I have been getting Malfunction Indicator light (MIL) on for some time.
It would come and go which we, at the time, attributed to gas tank cap nor being good perhaps. Anyways, recently I replaced the cap with the new one that I bought from the dealer and problem continued. Car was running OK.
Recently I felt there is somewhat less power in the car.
I got codes read in O'Reily part stores and there was a few misfire codes and if I remember correctly also P0420.
I got the spark plugs changed in an autoshop. They did not reset the codes as their diagnostic tool was in repair at the time.
I got codes read in O'Reily again, no change. So they reset the codes for me.
After a while MIL was on again.
So I bought a set of ignition coils from Auto Zone and replaced them myself.
The problem continued.
Someone suggested in Cargurus auto discussion group that I might have fuel pressure issues and that I should get it checked. I did that. Shop foreman used a fancy hand held diagnostic device with which he was getting misfire in cylinder 3 and also random misfires. He suggested I add one can of fuel injector cleaner to a full tank of gas and that should fix the problem. He said he did not see any other problems.
I added the fuel injector cleaner to a full tank. Problem continued.
Afterwards I bought a Diagnostic and code reader device and started monitoring codes myself. After resetting codes I would get P0303 (cylinder 3 misfire) after 20 miles or so driving.
But after a few days of driving, I am now getting misfire code on all cylinders , random misfire code (P0300) and P0420 which is related to catalytic converter in general. Freeze data only recorded P0303 related info.
Anyone knows what could be the problem?
It would come and go which we, at the time, attributed to gas tank cap nor being good perhaps. Anyways, recently I replaced the cap with the new one that I bought from the dealer and problem continued. Car was running OK.
Recently I felt there is somewhat less power in the car.
I got codes read in O'Reily part stores and there was a few misfire codes and if I remember correctly also P0420.
I got the spark plugs changed in an autoshop. They did not reset the codes as their diagnostic tool was in repair at the time.
I got codes read in O'Reily again, no change. So they reset the codes for me.
After a while MIL was on again.
So I bought a set of ignition coils from Auto Zone and replaced them myself.
The problem continued.
Someone suggested in Cargurus auto discussion group that I might have fuel pressure issues and that I should get it checked. I did that. Shop foreman used a fancy hand held diagnostic device with which he was getting misfire in cylinder 3 and also random misfires. He suggested I add one can of fuel injector cleaner to a full tank of gas and that should fix the problem. He said he did not see any other problems.
I added the fuel injector cleaner to a full tank. Problem continued.
Afterwards I bought a Diagnostic and code reader device and started monitoring codes myself. After resetting codes I would get P0303 (cylinder 3 misfire) after 20 miles or so driving.
But after a few days of driving, I am now getting misfire code on all cylinders , random misfire code (P0300) and P0420 which is related to catalytic converter in general. Freeze data only recorded P0303 related info.
Anyone knows what could be the problem?
Nathan Nagel
Oct 18, 2014, 9:22:22 AM10/18/14
to
The misfires, you're just going to have to troubleshoot those... I would start with the misfire codes first and work on the 420 later, because a) fixing that code is going to be expensive, unless you find a wiring fault related to the downstream O2 sensor and b) a 420 code is an emissions failure, but that by itself does not indicate a problem that could damage anything in your vehicle if you continue driving with that code present, nor does anything that could cause it cause any kind of driveability issues.
before you dump a lot of $$$ in this car, have you started with the basics? Compression OK?
Another thought - if you're feeling down on power, can you drop the cat for testing and if you run with open exhaust does it feel like the power is back? I'm not sure if a plugged cat will throw misfire codes but it will definitely cause you do be down on power and I'm thinking could possibly cause misfires... not sure why on #3 first and then the others though, I would think it would be all pretty random.
nate
Tegger
Oct 18, 2014, 6:39:25 PM10/18/14
to
Adsiz <n.gu...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1029b8ee-40a5-4f97...@googlegroups.com:
There is a TSB (05-027) out for the '96-'00 Civic which blames poor igniter
connections inside the distributor for very similar symptons. It's possible
the same problem has developed over time on your '01 car, or there may be
chafed wires somewhere.
--
Tegger
news:1029b8ee-40a5-4f97...@googlegroups.com:
.
>
> But after a few days of driving, I am now getting misfire code on all
> cylinders , random misfire code (P0300) and P0420 which is related to
> catalytic converter in general. Freeze data only recorded P0303
> related info.
>
Check the ignition components and wiring.
>
> But after a few days of driving, I am now getting misfire code on all
> cylinders , random misfire code (P0300) and P0420 which is related to
> catalytic converter in general. Freeze data only recorded P0303
> related info.
>
There is a TSB (05-027) out for the '96-'00 Civic which blames poor igniter
connections inside the distributor for very similar symptons. It's possible
the same problem has developed over time on your '01 car, or there may be
chafed wires somewhere.
--
Tegger
Adsiz
Oct 19, 2014, 2:43:12 AM10/19/14
to
Message has been deleted
Adsiz
Jan 1, 2015, 12:59:05 PM1/1/15
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Thank you all for replying.
Interesting developments took place since my last post. Basically the problem is still there but the pressure to solve it is less as I gave up and bought a small new car. I will keep this car in the garage and work on it or get it worked on as I think of likely solutions.
Currently I am getting misfires on cylinders 2,3 and 4 and random misfire. If I drive some more I expect to get cylinder 1 misfire code as well. I had suspected this was due to mismatching spark plugs that a shop installed but replacing them yesterday with OEM plugs (NGK PZFRF-11) did not change the situation as I am getting misfires on the same cylinders. I now know plugs are good, ignitions coils are new and good, compression on cylinders are all good (around 170-180 psi) and there is no vacuum leak (smoke test is done). Car is running excellent even when codes are on (not problem even with steady 70-80 mph speed). Having difficulty having all monitors (8 out of 8) getting ready. But occasionally I get P0420 when all monitors are set to ready after days of driving, pointing to cat. But one shop (and Honda dealer) said car could not run this good if CAT Converter was bad. Dealer suggested to get valve clearance check. I have some vibration front right, it is likely a warped brake rotor. I read somewhere that brakes and jerky transmission could be source of misfire codes. Do you think my vibrating brake (shimmy?) could be causing the source of misfire codes?
By the way, Happy New Year everyone.
Interesting developments took place since my last post. Basically the problem is still there but the pressure to solve it is less as I gave up and bought a small new car. I will keep this car in the garage and work on it or get it worked on as I think of likely solutions.
Currently I am getting misfires on cylinders 2,3 and 4 and random misfire. If I drive some more I expect to get cylinder 1 misfire code as well. I had suspected this was due to mismatching spark plugs that a shop installed but replacing them yesterday with OEM plugs (NGK PZFRF-11) did not change the situation as I am getting misfires on the same cylinders. I now know plugs are good, ignitions coils are new and good, compression on cylinders are all good (around 170-180 psi) and there is no vacuum leak (smoke test is done). Car is running excellent even when codes are on (not problem even with steady 70-80 mph speed). Having difficulty having all monitors (8 out of 8) getting ready. But occasionally I get P0420 when all monitors are set to ready after days of driving, pointing to cat. But one shop (and Honda dealer) said car could not run this good if CAT Converter was bad. Dealer suggested to get valve clearance check. I have some vibration front right, it is likely a warped brake rotor. I read somewhere that brakes and jerky transmission could be source of misfire codes. Do you think my vibrating brake (shimmy?) could be causing the source of misfire codes?
By the way, Happy New Year everyone.
Message has been deleted
Adsiz
Jan 2, 2015, 4:46:04 AM1/2/15
to
Thank you Elmo. I will try to find out if there is a service bulletin for flash update for ECU for 2001 Civic EX as well.
Geoff Welsh
Jan 3, 2015, 2:22:25 PM1/3/15
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Adsiz wrote:
> .......But occasionally I get P0420 when all monitors are set
That's BS. If the cat were PLUGGED, the car would run like shit, or not
at all. But if the cat is just old and has gently worn out over time,
which is what a P0420 suggests, then the car would run fine.
> Dealer suggested to get valve clearance check.
incorrect Valve adjustment is a legitimate possible source of misfires
on Honda.
> I have some
> vibration front right, it is likely a warped brake rotor. I read
> somewhere that brakes and jerky transmission could be source of
> misfire codes. Do you think my vibrating brake (shimmy?) could be
> causing the source of misfire codes?
I doubt it, but the better question is, "is the car actually misfiring,
or are you chasing phantom codes?"
GW
> .......But occasionally I get P0420 when all monitors are set
> to ready after days of driving, pointing to cat. But one shop (and
> Honda dealer) said car could not run this good if CAT Converter was
> bad. ..........
> Honda dealer) said car could not run this good if CAT Converter was
That's BS. If the cat were PLUGGED, the car would run like shit, or not
at all. But if the cat is just old and has gently worn out over time,
which is what a P0420 suggests, then the car would run fine.
> Dealer suggested to get valve clearance check.
on Honda.
> I have some
> vibration front right, it is likely a warped brake rotor. I read
> somewhere that brakes and jerky transmission could be source of
> misfire codes. Do you think my vibrating brake (shimmy?) could be
> causing the source of misfire codes?
or are you chasing phantom codes?"
GW
Adsiz
Jan 4, 2015, 2:06:48 PM1/4/15
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Thank you Geoff. I think you are suggesting ECU is the problem. If so, I wonder if the flash update that was suggested earlier will be sufficient or not. I suppose I may need to get the ECU replaced. Does anyone know if there is a health check (self check) for the ECU?
Adsiz
Jan 24, 2015, 10:48:28 AM1/24/15
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Some updates;
* I have checked with the dealer: There is no flash update for 2001 Civic.
* I got fuel injector cleaning done at a shop. No change in misfire situation.
* No fuel pressure test is done yet. There is not fuel filter that can be changed in this model, only the sock in gas tank.
* I was told it is not possible to see if cat is bad by just inspecting it.
* Seems like there is a debate if a cat getting old could cause misfire codes.
PS. Useful info: one who spends over $600 for fixing an emission related problem but cannot fix it, and the car fails the state inspection test (due to emission) in Texas twice within 60 days, and the car is OK otherwise, can get a emission inspection waiver for one year.
* I have checked with the dealer: There is no flash update for 2001 Civic.
* I got fuel injector cleaning done at a shop. No change in misfire situation.
* No fuel pressure test is done yet. There is not fuel filter that can be changed in this model, only the sock in gas tank.
* I was told it is not possible to see if cat is bad by just inspecting it.
* Seems like there is a debate if a cat getting old could cause misfire codes.
PS. Useful info: one who spends over $600 for fixing an emission related problem but cannot fix it, and the car fails the state inspection test (due to emission) in Texas twice within 60 days, and the car is OK otherwise, can get a emission inspection waiver for one year.
NotMe
Jan 24, 2015, 1:54:42 PM1/24/15
to
"Adsiz" <n.gu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7d4c1c47-be54-46be...@googlegroups.com...
Same exempyion is available if the needed part is not available but the $600
expenditure requirement typically does not apply. I rode for two year on
that exemption.
An aside the guy with the state found a used part (and remembered me) that
allowed me to pass the next inspection.
news:7d4c1c47-be54-46be...@googlegroups.com...
expenditure requirement typically does not apply. I rode for two year on
that exemption.
An aside the guy with the state found a used part (and remembered me) that
allowed me to pass the next inspection.
Adsiz
Feb 8, 2015, 1:53:48 PM2/8/15
to
Update:
I noticed I was having difficulty in getting ALL monitors ready. Also, cylinder 3 and 4 were giving misfire codes much earlier than cylinders 1 and 2 (but they eventually come on).
So,
Moved ignition coils 3,4 to the position of 1,2
Changed PCV valve (seemed very dirty and stuck)
Rotated Tires (which reduced clutch shuttering while starting at first gear)
To my pleasant surprise misfires codes did not come on for quite some time. Instead I got all monitors ready almost immediately, however I got code P0420 soon after (which was taking long time like 200-300 miles drive, previously).
After a while P0303, P0304, and, P0300 (random misfire) came on. much later I got P0301 and P0302 as well.
As I reported earlier the car is running almost perfect.
I wonder if it is now time to spend $130 at the dealership to get it diagnosed.
Any comments?
I noticed I was having difficulty in getting ALL monitors ready. Also, cylinder 3 and 4 were giving misfire codes much earlier than cylinders 1 and 2 (but they eventually come on).
So,
Moved ignition coils 3,4 to the position of 1,2
Changed PCV valve (seemed very dirty and stuck)
Rotated Tires (which reduced clutch shuttering while starting at first gear)
To my pleasant surprise misfires codes did not come on for quite some time. Instead I got all monitors ready almost immediately, however I got code P0420 soon after (which was taking long time like 200-300 miles drive, previously).
After a while P0303, P0304, and, P0300 (random misfire) came on. much later I got P0301 and P0302 as well.
As I reported earlier the car is running almost perfect.
I wonder if it is now time to spend $130 at the dealership to get it diagnosed.
Any comments?
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