Largest Chevrolet Dealer Group CLosing Doors
C. E. White
Bill Heard Enterprises Inc., the world's top-selling Chevrolet
dealership group, is closing the doors at its 13 stores today, the
company said in a statement. The company notified the stores� general
managers at 2 p.m. today, said a source familiar with the situation,
who spoke anonymously. High fuel prices, canceled floorplanning from
GMAC Financial Services, a reliance on sales of pickups ...
necromancer
And this:
"As MBJ sister paper Atlanta Business Chronicle reported in July 2007,
Bill Heard faced a $50 million deceptive advertising lawsuit and was
bombarded with a litany of complaints from consumers in the states
where it operated."
Ref:
http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2008/09/22/daily19.html
--
"When you can't afford the gas to drive to the job
that you are fixing to lose to pay for the house you
can't afford... That's pretty much the recession
tri-fecta..."
--Jay Leno
coach...@hotmail.com
<55_sux@worldofnecromancer_no_spam_no_way.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:53:03 -0400, "C. E. White"
>
> >Bill Heard Enterprises closes its doors
>
> >Bill Heard Enterprises Inc., the world's top-selling Chevrolet
> >dealership group, is closing the doors at its 13 stores today, the
> >company said in a statement. The company notified the stores general
> >managers at 2 p.m. today, said a source familiar with the situation,
> >who spoke anonymously. High fuel prices, canceled floorplanning from
> >GMAC Financial Services, a reliance on sales of pickups ...
>
> And this:
>
> "As MBJ sister paper Atlanta Business Chronicle reported in July 2007,
> Bill Heard faced a $50 million deceptive advertising lawsuit and was
> bombarded with a litany of complaints from consumers in the states
> where it operated."
>
Thanks for the little piece of info. Otherwise, the Jim Higgins' of
the world might otherwise try to use the closing of these dealerships
as proof that Chevys are not selling anymore.
Jim Higgins
Petty individuals project their inadequacies onto others rather than
examine facts objectively. Your failure.
--
Civis Romanus Sum
krp
<coach...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e9d34094-6617-42c9...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> >Bill Heard Enterprises Inc., the world's top-selling Chevrolet
> >dealership group, is closing the doors at its 13 stores today, the
> >company said in a statement. The company notified the stores general
> >managers at 2 p.m. today, said a source familiar with the situation,
> >who spoke anonymously. High fuel prices, canceled floorplanning from
> >GMAC Financial Services, a reliance on sales of pickups ...
>
> And this:
>
> "As MBJ sister paper Atlanta Business Chronicle reported in July 2007,
> Bill Heard faced a $50 million deceptive advertising lawsuit and was
> bombarded with a litany of complaints from consumers in the states
> where it operated."
< Thanks for the little piece of info. Otherwise, the Jim Higgins' of
< the world might otherwise try to use the closing of these dealerships
< as proof that Chevys are not selling anymore
Chevy is getting its ass kicked in cars by Toyota, Honda and Nissan.
Same with pickups. SUV sales are in the toilet for everyone. Except the
small SUV's.
Chevy has been building junk since the 60's. Brand loyalty is rapidly
evaporating. Their market share is the incredible shrinking woman. Chevrolet
excited folks with the prototype concept car the "Volt" and then the Harvard
MBA's at GM redesigned it from a 400 mile range to 40 miles and they wonder
WHY the queue to order them evaporated overnight. NEVER buy a car designed
by a Harvard MBA!
Gosi
> <coachros...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
"they would actually say in the weekly sales meetings, “do anything,
say anything, promise anything, lie if you have to, just get the
people on paper, we’ll worry about the problems later”.
“Attorney Barry Weathers calls Bill Heard “a cancer on the community”
and says the problems reflect the company’s corporate culture. ”
"the largest and nicest looking dealers are the ones that treat you
poorly."
"plenty of businesses that just could not figure out that their star
salesman or distributor was costing them money"
80_Knight
news:MHHCk.1265$Jw....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
You know, you're right. The top rated Chevy Malibu and Impala are junk, as
is the new Camaro. <sarcasm>
You are a Moron.
krp
"Gosi" <gos...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:da4dc869-e7ad-440d...@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
You are talking about many Chevy and Ford dealers. Chrysler kind of
cleaned that up some, but screwing people has been their strong suit for the
past 75 years or so.That's why I drive a HONDA.
krp
"80_Knight" <nos...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p_mdneyeNrDNBEbV...@giganews.com...
Thank you for your valuable opinion. Your wit and insight are greatly
appreciated. Top rated by WHO?
adventuremyk
wrote:
>On Sep 24, 5:06 pm, necromancer
><55_sux@worldofnecromancer_no_spam_no_way.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:53:03 -0400, "C. E. White"
>>
>> <cewhi...@removemindspring.com> wrote:
>> >Bill Heard Enterprises closes its doors
>>
>> >Bill Heard Enterprises Inc., the world's top-selling Chevrolet
>> >dealership group, is closing the doors at its 13 stores today, the
>> >company said in a statement. The company notified the stores general
>> >managers at 2 p.m. today, said a source familiar with the situation,
>> >who spoke anonymously. High fuel prices, canceled floorplanning from
>> >GMAC Financial Services, a reliance on sales of pickups ...
>>
>> And this:
>>
>> "As MBJ sister paper Atlanta Business Chronicle reported in July 2007,
>> Bill Heard faced a $50 million deceptive advertising lawsuit and was
>> bombarded with a litany of complaints from consumers in the states
>> where it operated."
>Thanks for the little piece of info. Otherwise, the Jim Higgins' of
>the world might otherwise try to use the closing of these dealerships
>as proof that Chevys are not selling anymore.
I'm not sure who Jim Higgins is, but around here the three oldest
Chevy/GM dealers are in trouble of closing and one Ford dealer just
did. They went from selling 300-360 cars a month every month to
scraping for 60-70 cars each the last 6 months. They have already
shut down the used car departments, laid off a lot of employee's and
drawn everything back to just the new car showroom. They are trying to
avoid taking on new inventory and are doing their best to make money
on the used cars (which is about the only way they can these days).
I did see another post about how horrible many of the GM/Ford
dealerships are run and 'that's why I drive a Honda', yet Honda
frequently has the worst rated sales practices of 'this is the price,
take it or leave it. In fact, get the hell out and we'll sell it to
someone else' of any marque out there. Btw, we do have a Honda and it
took going to three Stealerships to find one Dealership.
You can't really rate a brand of car for having bad dealers and
another brand for having good ones. In this day and time where
desperation is the rule for those dealers, it has become an 'anything
goes to keep te lights on' frenzy and I can not think of a brand that
has been spared.
Simply walking into a dealership, especially a large one used to
turning 250-350 cars a month and is now down to a 50-70 range, is
pretty depressing. The last time I went into a local Ford dealer
(dont' worry, it was a Toyota Tacoma in their used line that I wanted
to see), there were 3 people fighting, and yes, I mean pushing and
shoving, over who's turn it was to 'up' me. I simply bypassed the
three, walked in the front doors and no less than 14 sales people were
sitting around a large table, ALL of them with the expression of
defeat and failure blazened across their faces. It would take little
to have imagined tattoos on their foreheads reading "Too Deep in the
Bucket" "Wife left" "Bills 6 months behind" "Car was repod" "House is
in Foreclosure" etc. It was seriously depressing as an atmosphere
and the sheer desperation drove me out of the place before I could
even ask about the truck.
If I recall it was about 6pm on a bright, clear Wed or Thur afternoon
and I was the ONLY customer on the lot. Evidently, I had been the
only customer to even drive in within the last 3 hours...
I did hear from a few sales reps in marketting and advertising that
some of the dealers have literally had them thrown out of the
dealerships. Yep, times are screwed.
C. E. White
> You are talking about many Chevy and Ford dealers. Chrysler kind
> of cleaned that up some, but screwing people has been their strong
> suit for the past 75 years or so.That's why I drive a HONDA.
Now that is a laugh. Two of the most crooked dealers I know got in
trouble selling Hondas. Check out what Rick Hendrick went to jail for
(well until Clinton pardoned him). The local Honda dealer has been
robbing people blind for at least 30 years. I refuse to even go on
their lot. By comparison most of the local GM and Ford dealers are
saints. To buy a Honda I have to go at least 50 miles to find an
honest (or at least mostly honest) dealer. There are three or four
Ford/Mercury dealers and at least that many GM dealers I would trust
within 10 miles. And don't get me started on the crummy local Toyota
dealers. The nearest decent Toyota dealer is 40 miles away. I can't
comment on Chrysler dealers, they don't make anything I'd consider
buying. Last time I bought a Plymouth was 1981 and that dealer went
broke at least 15 years ago.
Ed
Eeyore
krp wrote:
> Chevrolet
> excited folks with the prototype concept car the "Volt" and then the Harvard
> MBA's at GM redesigned it from a 400 mile range to 40 miles and they wonder
> WHY the queue to order them evaporated overnight. NEVER buy a car designed
> by a Harvard MBA!
Whilst I agree with your MBA sentiments, the Volt can indeed cover 400 or so
miles using its ICE when the battery is discharged.
400 miles worth of batteries would need a pickup just to carry them and they'd
weigh tons.
Graham
raa...@gmail.com
> On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:44:06 -0700 (PDT), coachros...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
I should go tease the guys atmy old saturn stealership- sounds like fun
krp
<adventuremyk> wrote in message
news:67bnd4d1t7ur6ecqt...@4ax.com...
> I did see another post about how horrible many of the GM/Ford
> dealerships are run and 'that's why I drive a Honda', yet Honda
> frequently has the worst rated sales practices of 'this is the price,
> take it or leave it. In fact, get the hell out and we'll sell it to
> someone else' of any marque out there. Btw, we do have a Honda and it
> took going to three Stealerships to find one Dealership.
>
> You can't really rate a brand of car for having bad dealers and
> another brand for having good ones. In this day and time where
> desperation is the rule for those dealers, it has become an 'anything
> goes to keep te lights on' frenzy and I can not think of a brand that
> has been spared.
I rate the Chevy and Ford dealerships for being crooks AND having lousy
cars. There are Honda dealers that are crooks. But at least the car doesn't
fall apart before you clear the dealer's driveway.
krp
"C. E. White" <cewh...@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:48dbb9a3$1@kcnews01...
>> You are talking about many Chevy and Ford dealers. Chrysler kind of
>> cleaned that up some, but screwing people has been their strong suit for
>> the past 75 years or so.That's why I drive a HONDA.
> Now that is a laugh. Two of the most crooked dealers I know got in trouble
> selling Hondas. Check out what Rick Hendrick went to jail for (well until
> Clinton pardoned him). The local Honda dealer has been robbing people
> blind for at least 30 years. I refuse to even go on their lot.
You can't find any brand of car where there isn't a bad dealer. Several
years ago we had a Rolls Royce / Bentley dealer that was nailed. The point
is when you have a bad Honda dealer you still have a GOOD CAR!
< By comparison most of the local GM and Ford dealers are
> saints. To buy a Honda I have to go at least 50 miles to find an honest
> (or at least mostly honest) dealer.
I don't worry about the dealer as much as I do the price I wind up
paying for the car. I'm not looking for somebody to sleep with.
> I can't comment on Chrysler dealers, they don't make anything I'd
consider
> buying. Last time I bought a Plymouth was 1981 and that dealer went broke
> at least 15 years ago.
Chrysler is building some decent cars. Their minivans are generally top
rated or neat the top. The Jeeps do pretty well in their class. The Viper
will still blow the doors off a Vette any day of the week.
krp
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:48DBC174...@hotmail.com...
The latest from GM is that have downgraded it to 40 miles. The lithium
ion batteries cal deliver far more than what is planned for the 2010 Volt.
PerfectReign
> Chevrolet excited folks with the prototype concept car the "Volt" and then
> the Harvard MBA's at GM redesigned it from a 400 mile range to 40 miles
> and they wonder WHY the queue to order them evaporated overnight. NEVER
> buy a car designed by a Harvard MBA!
You know, you've got a point there.
I was discussing the Avalanche with a buddy of mine. He's got a 2003, while
I have a 2006. They both had roughly the same options and about the same
MSRP ($35,000).
In order to "cut costs", GM listened to the bean counters and deleted from
the truck in 2004 the rear door marker lights, passenger floor lights,
glove box light, hood light and the passenger side cargo bay light.
Though I could understand some need for cost cutting, did they actually save
anything in this or did they just piss off every 2004> Avalanche buyer?
--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org
government is a process which utilizes 45.5% gut reaction, 45.5% laws and
statutes and 1% logic
80_Knight
The Malibu was named "North American Car of the Year" (kicking the Honda
Accord's ass in the process), as well as being placed on "Car and Driver's"
"10 best cars for 2008", along with the Cadillac CTS and Chevy Corvette.
The Malibu was also chosen by Kelley Blue Book as the "Best redesigned
vehicle for 2008".
Also, last year, the Chevy Silverado and the Saturn Aura won the "North
American Car of the Year" award. The Chevy Tahoe Hybrid also won the 2008
"Green Car of the Year" award.
As for the Impala, it won the 2008 "AutoPacific Motorist Choice Award", and
is built at the #1 rated Auto plant in North America, in Oshawa Ontario.
krp
"PerfectReign" <theperf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1923691.LvPIfNpbgz@perfectreign...
>> Chevrolet excited folks with the prototype concept car the "Volt" and
>> then
>> the Harvard MBA's at GM redesigned it from a 400 mile range to 40 miles
>> and they wonder WHY the queue to order them evaporated overnight. NEVER
>> buy a car designed by a Harvard MBA!
>
> You know, you've got a point there.
>
> I was discussing the Avalanche with a buddy of mine. He's got a 2003,
> while
> I have a 2006. They both had roughly the same options and about the same
> MSRP ($35,000).
>
> In order to "cut costs", GM listened to the bean counters and deleted from
> the truck in 2004 the rear door marker lights, passenger floor lights,
> glove box light, hood light and the passenger side cargo bay light.
> Though I could understand some need for cost cutting, did they actually
> save
> anything in this or did they just piss off every 2004> Avalanche buyer?
If we can have a "no-shit moment" in one board meeting at GM, one of the
young execs with a Harvard MBA incredulously asked WHY they had to have 5
lug nuts on the wheels of their cars, wouldn't 2 do the same job? He
calculated the savings for GM.
krp
> The Malibu was named "North American Car of the Year" (kicking the Honda
> Accord's ass in the process), as well as being placed on "Car and
> Driver's" "10 best cars for 2008", along with the Cadillac CTS and Chevy
> Corvette. The Malibu was also chosen by Kelley Blue Book as the "Best
> redesigned vehicle for 2008".
And yet when you read Consumer's Reports there are all those pesky black
dots and the conclusion that repairs are "substantially higher than average"
and Honda rates "substantially better than average." I tend NOT to listen
to a magazine that once rated the Ford Pinto as CAR OF THE YEAR!
Edwin Pawlowski
> OF THE YEAR!
>
>
But maybe it was at the time. No magazine tests rear end crashes to see if
the gas tank explodes. But value and economy were better than most of the
day.
Edwin Pawlowski
> ion batteries cal deliver far more than what is planned for the 2010 Volt.
>
>
On my round trip to work I'd only have to walk 8 miles home. Nice. It may
still have a place for city types though.
krp
"Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:i3VCk.2270$eb4....@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
> " krp" <kr...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> I tend NOT to listen to a magazine that once rated the Ford Pinto as
>> CAR OF THE YEAR!
>>
>>
>
> But maybe it was at the time.
You HAVE to be kidding!! They also rated the Chevy Vega high. The ONLY car
to hit the road in America that was worse was the YUGO!
krp
>> The latest from GM is that have downgraded it to 40 miles. The lithium
>> ion batteries cal deliver far more than what is planned for the 2010
>> Volt.
>>
>>
>
> On my round trip to work I'd only have to walk 8 miles home. Nice. It
> may still have a place for city types though.
Hopefully it will change by the time it is in showrooms.
adventuremyk
wrote:
>The Malibu was also chosen by Kelley Blue Book as the "Best redesigned
>vehicle for 2008".
Kelly Blue Book tests and rates automobiles?!?
That's about like the NADA books (all 4-6 of them that look virtually
identical) being unbiased.. After all, it's the National Auto Dealers
Association...
On the same vein, Consumers Reports needs to stick to testing
toasters. That they can get right.
Eeyore
krp wrote:
> The latest from GM is that have downgraded it to 40 miles.
You're talking utter nonsense.
Graham
Eeyore
PerfectReign wrote:
> krp turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:
>
> > Chevrolet excited folks with the prototype concept car the "Volt" and then
> > the Harvard MBA's at GM redesigned it from a 400 mile range to 40 miles
> > and they wonder WHY the queue to order them evaporated overnight. NEVER
> > buy a car designed by a Harvard MBA!
>
> You know, you've got a point there.
>
> I was discussing the Avalanche with a buddy of mine. He's got a 2003, while
> I have a 2006. They both had roughly the same options and about the same
> MSRP ($35,000).
>
> In order to "cut costs", GM listened to the bean counters and deleted from
> the truck in 2004 the rear door marker lights, passenger floor lights,
> glove box light, hood light and the passenger side cargo bay light.
>
> Though I could understand some need for cost cutting, did they actually save
> anything in this or did they just piss off every 2004> Avalanche buyer?
Savings would be minimal due to re-tooling costs, new wiring loom design, you
name it.
The MBA culture of meddling with things they don't understand needs to pilloried
publicly.
Graham
Eeyore
adventuremyk wrote:
> I did see another post about how horrible many of the GM/Ford
> dealerships are run and 'that's why I drive a Honda', yet Honda
> frequently has the worst rated sales practices of 'this is the price,
> take it or leave it.
Maybe because it's an honest price and not inflated by vast commissions ?
Graham
Scott
Could you just go back to the jap car whores group or just go away?
Now, I don't mean that in a bad sort of way...
coach...@hotmail.com
> coachros...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Sep 24, 5:06 pm, necromancer
> > <55_sux@worldofnecromancer_no_spam_no_way.org> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:53:03 -0400, "C. E. White"
>
> >> <cewhi...@removemindspring.com> wrote:
> >>> Bill Heard Enterprises closes its doors
> >>> dealership group, is closing the doors at its 13 stores today, the
> >>> company said in a statement. The company notified the stores general
> >>> managers at 2 p.m. today, said a source familiar with the situation,
> >>> who spoke anonymously. High fuel prices, canceled floorplanning from
> >>> GMAC Financial Services, a reliance on sales of pickups ...
> >> And this:
>
> >> "As MBJ sister paper Atlanta Business Chronicle reported in July 2007,
> >> Bill Heard faced a $50 million deceptive advertising lawsuit and was
> >> bombarded with a litany of complaints from consumers in the states
> >> where it operated."
>
> > Thanks for the little piece of info. Otherwise, the Jim Higgins' of
> > the world might otherwise try to use the closing of these dealerships
>
> >> Ref:http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2008/09/22/daily19.html
>
> >> --
> >> "When you can't afford the gas to drive to the job
> >> that you are fixing to lose to pay for the house you
> >> can't afford... That's pretty much the recession
> >> tri-fecta..."
> >> --Jay Leno
>
> Petty individuals project their inadequacies onto others rather than
> examine facts objectively. Your failure.
>
Petty individuals search the "news" on a daily basis to "prove" their
point on a subject, such as their hatered for a US like GM, and post
it on a daily basis on the internet, usually on sites, such as the GM
group.
Somehow, these same indivduals almost always miss positive articles on
a company like GM and therefore, don't post such articles.
Wonder why?
Gee, if you only listened the the Jim Higgins on the world, you might
not know that GM produces a lot of kick-ass vechicles. They also
produce more 30-mpg vechicles than anyone. And they certainly don't
recall more cars than they sell, like some other company that is so
great.
They also had the highest selling vechicle in the US last month, the
Chevy Silverado, a PICKUP TRUCK, for Gods sake. I thought no one was
buying them anymore!!!!!!
> -- You are a moron, please, do all of us a favor, and take a hike, son!
> Civis Romanus Sum- Hide quoted text -
coach...@hotmail.com
> <coachros...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e9d34094-6617-42c9...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >Bill Heard Enterprises Inc., the world's top-selling Chevrolet
> > >dealership group, is closing the doors at its 13 stores today, the
> > >company said in a statement. The company notified the stores general
> > >managers at 2 p.m. today, said a source familiar with the situation,
> > >who spoke anonymously. High fuel prices, canceled floorplanning from
> > >GMAC Financial Services, a reliance on sales of pickups ...
>
> > And this:
>
> > "As MBJ sister paper Atlanta Business Chronicle reported in July 2007,
> > Bill Heard faced a $50 million deceptive advertising lawsuit and was
> > bombarded with a litany of complaints from consumers in the states
> > where it operated."
>
> < Thanks for the little piece of info. Otherwise, the Jim Higgins' of
> < the world might otherwise try to use the closing of these dealerships
>
> Chevy is getting its ass kicked in cars by Toyota, Honda and Nissan.
> Same with pickups. SUV sales are in the toilet for everyone. Except the
> small SUV's.
> Chevy has been building junk since the 60's. Brand loyalty is rapidly
> evaporating. Their market share is the incredible shrinking woman. Chevrolet
> excited folks with the prototype concept car the "Volt" and then the Harvard
> MBA's at GM redesigned it from a 400 mile range to 40 miles and they wonder
> WHY the queue to order them evaporated overnight. NEVER buy a car designed
> by a Harvard MBA!
I can't afford to own such "quality" cars as these that are recalled
more often than they are sold.
My "junk" has gotten the job done for me for over 30 years. I have no
reason to think that my "junk" will not continue to be realible in the
future.
80_Knight
Ah, you're one of the morons who buys something based on what "Consumer's
Reports" say. My work with you is done.
coach...@hotmail.com
I tend to NEVER listen to the likes of GR or Edmunds.
My guess is that you tend to not listen to them when, on RARE
occasions, they give a good review on an American nameplate.
krp
<adventuremyk> wrote in message
news:ohiod45u16nnlkqd7...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:20:44 -0400, "80_Knight" <nos...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>The Malibu was also chosen by Kelley Blue Book as the "Best redesigned
>>vehicle for 2008".
> Kelly Blue Book tests and rates automobiles?!?
Not that I am aware of. But I let that one slide.
> On the same vein, Consumers Reports needs to stick to testing
> toasters. That they can get right.
They have nailed some very BAD cars. But I agree they have allowed a few
duds get past them. I can't remember when a car was better than CR said.
krp
>
>
> krp wrote:
>
>> The latest from GM is that have downgraded it to 40 miles.
>
> You're talking utter nonsense.
Sorry - GM is. Look at the VOLT website that the guy put up to get in line
to buy them. 75% of the people who pledged to buy one have backed out now
that GM changed the specs and design.
krp
"Scott" <home...@alone.com> wrote in message
news:hUYCk.2293$eb4...@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com...
Oh come on, just call them "rice burners" and vent your racist spleen.
krp
>>> The Malibu was named "North American Car of the Year" (kicking the Honda
>>> Accord's ass in the process), as well as being placed on "Car and
>>> Driver's" "10 best cars for 2008", along with the Cadillac CTS and Chevy
>>> Corvette. The Malibu was also chosen by Kelley Blue Book as the "Best
>>> redesigned vehicle for 2008".
>>
>> And yet when you read Consumer's Reports there are all those pesky
>> black dots and the conclusion that repairs are "substantially higher than
>> average" and Honda rates "substantially better than average." I tend NOT
>> to listen to a magazine that once rated the Ford Pinto as CAR OF THE
>> YEAR!
>
> Ah, you're one of the morons who buys something based on what "Consumer's
> Reports" say. My work with you is done.
No, CR didn't get me to buy the Honda. Knowing cars did. How many of the
INDY cars are using Chevy or Ford powerplants today? You can check the
frequency of repair info, such as the Powers reports, or speak to mechanics.
You can also check with the auto parts people. The top 3 Japanese companies
do well, the others not so well. Mitsubishi, for example, turned into pure
crap a few years ago. The Korean cars are making huge strides. By and large
the American made cars are crap. Not that we can't build good cars. It is
that we don't want to. It's a deliberate choice at GM and Ford to build
"SHIT!" They know what they need to do to be competitive the problem is
that the Harvard MBA who run things refuse to do them. They really DON'T
know why wheels must stay on cars, they are THAT stupid. Want to know why
our economy is in the crapper? Look at how many of these companies that are
tanking were run by HARVARD MBA's.
I have said for the past 2 decades; "If you want to take a great company
and put it into bankruptcy within a year, put a Harvard MBA in charge!"
Their only theme is make SHIT real fast and cheap! What amazes me is these
clowns take over running a company, ruin it, and leave with a $90 MILLION
golden parachute.
Go figure.
I held of buying a foreign car as long as I could. Finally I had to give
in. The competitors from the US didn't get near the gas mileage of my Honda
(CR-V) costs 30% more and were CRAP! The Ford BROKE on my test drive.
BROKE.. Had to get TOWED back to the store. Chevy was cramped, noisy as
hell. The Jeep liberty, about as close as Chrysler comes to a comparable
vehicle pinched my ass with the narrow seats. (Overly wide center console).
I suppose it's fine if you weight 120 pounds. I don't.
So what do we do? The problem I also see is that we allowed GM - Ford
etc to get too big and engage in anti-competitive BS that put the
independents out of business. (See Tucker) Between bad management and the
two big companies being at war with innovation and any independent that
started to become a threat - what we wound up with was a market ripe for the
Japanese to rape. Is it because the Japanese can build better cars? Our
autoworkers are the best in the world. But they are made to make crap!
krp
<coach...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5d56a2ed-ab8d-45d8...@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
> > The Malibu was named "North American Car of the Year" (kicking the Honda
> > Accord's ass in the process), as well as being placed on "Car and
> > Driver's" "10 best cars for 2008", along with the Cadillac CTS and Chevy
> > Corvette. The Malibu was also chosen by Kelley Blue Book as the "Best
> > redesigned vehicle for 2008".
>
> And yet when you read Consumer's Reports there are all those pesky black
> dots and the conclusion that repairs are "substantially higher than
> average"
> and Honda rates "substantially better than average." I tend NOT to listen
> to a magazine that once rated the Ford Pinto as CAR OF THE YEAR!
I tend to NEVER listen to the likes of GR or Edmunds.
My guess is that you tend to not listen to them when, on RARE
occasions, they give a good review on an American nameplate.
==============
Wrong. I bought a Chrysler Town and Country and that had GREAT reviews. But
I didn't but it because of CR, it was because everyone I know around cars
said it was the best minivan going. I put over 200,000 miles on it. It was
in great shape when I traded it.
Gosi
I have an electrical bicycle that works fine in such distances.
http://www.el-bike.is/
Gosi
If an ordinary electrical bike is not enough then I am sure KillaCycle
is
http://www.killacycle.com/
C. E. White
I don't recall any magazine naming the Pinto as Car of the Year (The
Vega was the Motor Trend Car of the Year). On the other hand, as the
satisfied owner of a Pinto, I think your prejudice is showing. Did you
ever own one? Do you recall what Honda was selling in the US at the
same time the Pinto was introduced (1970)? I do - it was CRAP. And
unsafe crap at that. My Sister replaced her 1973 Pinto with a 1979
Honda Accord. The Accord was a nicer car than a 1979 Pinto, which by
then was an old end of life design, but when Pintos were originally
introduced there was nothing from Honda that I would have considered
(did you ever drive an original Civic - I did). In fact as far as I
was concerned there was only one Japanese car sold in the US in the
early 70's worth considering - the Datsun 510. Toyotas were slow,
cramped, noisy, and rusted away in just a couple of years. They were
horrible. Even the 1979 Accord my Sister owned was nothing great. She
owned it about the same length of time she owned the Pinto (6 years).
When she sold the Pinto, I bought it (it was my second, I also owned
a '72) and drove it while my other car was being repaired (a
Jensen-Healey). When I got my regular car back, I sold the Pinto to a
friend for his kids to drive when they were in High School. It got all
three of his kids through High School and College and then he sold it
to another family. He was a big Chrysler fan, but even he was
impressed by how tough the Pinto was. When my sister replaced the
Accord, it was a smoking, rusted out hulk. If you drove the car more
than 60 mph, the doors would flex out and the car would whistle like a
banshee. There were major rust holes in the fenders (front and rear)
and the car leaked oil all over the place. But, it still moved....
Ed
krp
"C. E. White" <cewh...@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:48dcca4c$1@kcnews01...
> I don't recall any magazine naming the Pinto as Car of the Year (The Vega
> was the Motor Trend Car of the Year).
Wasn't it C&D? Vega was JUNK.
<On the other hand, as the satisfied owner of a Pinto, I think your
prejudice is showing.
Bet you loced the Yugo too.
> Did you ever own one? Do you recall what Honda was selling in the US at
> the same time the Pinto was introduced (1970)? I do - it was CRAP. And
> unsafe crap at that.
The Honda Z - CRAP???
< My Sister replaced her 1973 Pinto with a 1979
> Honda Accord. The Accord was a nicer car than a 1979 Pinto, which by then
> was an old end of life design, but when Pintos were originally introduced
> there was nothing from Honda that I would have considered (did you ever
> drive an original Civic - I did).
Honda was new to CAR making in 1970, they were a motocycle manufacturer.
They came along quickly with the CVCC. Although that earl Honda Z cas was
pretty nice.
< In fact as far as I was concerned there was only one Japanese car sold in
the US in the
> early 70's worth considering - the Datsun 510. Toyotas were slow, cramped,
> noisy, and rusted away in just a couple of years. They were horrible. Even
> the 1979 Accord my Sister owned was nothing great. She owned it about the
> same length of time she owned the Pinto (6 years).
That's a LONG time ago. I agree, the eary Japanese imprts were not very
good. But then neither were American cars then.
> When she sold the Pinto, I bought it (it was my second, I also owned a
> '72) and drove it while my other car was being repaired (a Jensen-Healey).
> When I got my regular car back, I sold the Pinto to a friend for his kids
> to drive when they were in High School. It got all three of his kids
> through High School and College and then he sold it to another family. He
> was a big Chrysler fan, but even he was impressed by how tough the Pinto
> was. When my sister replaced the Accord, it was a smoking, rusted out
> hulk. If you drove the car more than 60 mph, the doors would flex out and
> the car would whistle like a banshee. There were major rust holes in the
> fenders (front and rear) and the car leaked oil all over the place. But,
> it still moved....
A Pinto that lasted past 50,000 miles was a rarity. Talk about rusting.
As to this, that was 30 years ago. The Civic of today rates extremely high
compared to ANY American competition. I did say I waited until now,
resisting buying a Japanese car until this year. Honda moved from a not so
good car to consistently rating at the top for reliability and few
maintenance troubles. Although my step son (23) has managed to eat a couple
clutches in his 08 Civic S-1. I don't believe, however, that it is the car,
it's the driver.
C. E. White
>
> "80_Knight" <nos...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5IWdnSaaPtU1-EHV...@giganews.com...
>
>>>> The Malibu was named "North American Car of the Year" (kicking
>>>> the Honda Accord's ass in the process), as well as being placed
>>>> on "Car and Driver's" "10 best cars for 2008", along with the
>>>> Cadillac CTS and Chevy Corvette. The Malibu was also chosen by
>>>> Kelley Blue Book as the "Best redesigned vehicle for 2008".
>>>
>>> And yet when you read Consumer's Reports there are all those
>>> pesky black dots and the conclusion that repairs are
>>> "substantially higher than average" and Honda rates "substantially
>>> better than average." I tend NOT to listen to a magazine that
>>> once rated the Ford Pinto as CAR OF THE YEAR!
>>
>> Ah, you're one of the morons who buys something based on what
>> "Consumer's Reports" say. My work with you is done.
>
> No, CR didn't get me to buy the Honda. Knowing cars did. How many
> of the INDY cars are using Chevy or Ford powerplants today?
Since 2006 the only Ihdy engine has been a Honda V-8. This has
absolutely nothing to do with production vehicles. The Indy series is
a spec series. Everybody uses chassis from the same company as well.
Does that imply that all vehicle manufaturers make crap cars since
they don't supply Indy car chassis?
> You can check the frequency of repair info, such as the Powers
> reports, or speak to mechanics. You can also check with the auto
> parts people. The top 3 Japanese companies do well, the others not
> so well. Mitsubishi, for example, turned into pure crap a few years
> ago. The Korean cars are making huge strides. By and large the
> American made cars are crap.
If you look at the JD Power rankings, almost all current vehciles are
very reliable (both initially and long term). Consumer Reports
recently revised the numbers used to determine the little dots to
emphasize what are actually very small differences in reliability.
> Not that we can't build good cars. It is that we don't want to. It's
> a deliberate choice at GM and Ford to build "SHIT!" They know what
> they need to do to be competitive the problem is that the Harvard
> MBA who run things refuse to do them. They really DON'T know why
> wheels must stay on cars, they are THAT stupid. Want to know why our
> economy is in the crapper? Look at how many of these companies that
> are tanking were run by HARVARD MBA's.
I currently own four vehicles - 2006 Nissan Frontier, 2006 Mustang
Coupe (Sons car), 2007 Ford Fusion, 2008 (Mazda 3). My Sister just had
her 2001 Ford Escape totaled in an accident (it wasn't really that
badly damaged, but they offered her enough for the car she decided to
buy a new car) and bought a new RAV4. My other sister just replaced
her 1997 Civic with a 2008 RAV4. My SO has a 2007 RAV4. My Mother has
a 2005 Ford Freestyle and a 1999 Ford Ranger. In 7.5 years of driving,
the Escape needed one coolant level sensor and a brake booster. At the
time it was wrecked, it was in very good shape and still comfortable.
In 10 years of driving, the Civic needed two mufflers and plug wires.
However, it was a horrible car to drive at the end. Both me and my
other Sister (the Escape owner) agreed it was a horrible car. My
Fusion has about 35k miles and has never been back to the dealer. The
Frontier has been recalled three times, the rear jump seats won't stay
up, and there is a known problem with the evaporative emission control
system that occasionally turns on the check engine light. My Mother's
Freestyle has never been back to the dealer. The Ranger has need one
IAC replaced and has had no other repairs in almost 10 years (the
paint is looking weak though). The Mustang had to have something done
to the rear differential (warranty), however if you knew my son, you
would be surprised that is all that has happened - he has bought three
sets of rear tires for the car so far. My SO's RAV4 has been very
reliable, but does have some faults (excessive wind noise and a cruise
control that sometimes acts up). The other two RAV4 are practically
brand new but seem perfect. The Mazda 3 is almost a year old, but has
fewer than 6k miles. It has never needed any repairs. I have not
driven in but once. It seems nice enough and my Son claims it has more
room for the driver than the 2004 Accord he used to drive.
I really like my Fusion, it is quiet with a decent ride and good
power. The around town fuel mileage is not as good as I would like,
but then I got AWD and a V-6, so I am not too surprised it is not
better (I average around 23 in mostly urban driving). The Frontier has
been mostly reliable. As a truck it is not as capable as I would have
liked. Despite being significantly larger, it will not haul any more
weight it he bed than the 1999 Ranger. The passenger compartment is
also cramped for a truck of this size. The Ranger is much smaller, but
actually seems to have more driver room, or at least things are better
laid out.
I guess my point is - I have personal knowledge of a lot of different
vehicles. None of them have been unreliable. I rate the Civic as a
horrible car, but it was reliable. Of the vehicles in my list, if I
was going to go on a trip, I'd want to drive either the Fusion or the
Freestyle. I actually prefer the Fusion, but if there were more than 3
people, the larger Freestyle would be a better choice. I'll be
interested in seeing how my younger sister makes out with the RAV4.
She had an excellent experience with the Escape, so it will be
interesting to see if the RAV4 does as well. She is meticulous about
having her car serviced at the dealer. My other Sister and my SO are
not so good at keeping up with routine maintenance. I try to keep the
oil changed for in their cars, but I only have so much time for other
things.
> I have said for the past 2 decades; "If you want to take a great
> company and put it into bankruptcy within a year, put a Harvard MBA
> in charge!" Their only theme is make SHIT real fast and cheap! What
> amazes me is these clowns take over running a company, ruin it, and
> leave with a $90 MILLION golden parachute.
> Go figure.
>
> I held of buying a foreign car as long as I could. Finally I had
> to give in. The competitors from the US didn't get near the gas
> mileage of my Honda (CR-V) costs 30% more and were CRAP! The Ford
> BROKE on my test drive. BROKE.. Had to get TOWED back to the store.
> Chevy was cramped, noisy as hell. The Jeep liberty, about as close
> as Chrysler comes to a comparable vehicle pinched my ass with the
> narrow seats. (Overly wide center console). I suppose it's fine if
> you weight 120 pounds. I don't.
I liked the older CR-Vs, however my two Sisters and my SO all decided
the Toyota RAV4 was a btter vehicle that the current CR-V. I rode in a
firend's 2008 CR-V earlier this year on a beach trip. The vehicle was
a little cramped and suffered from a lot of wind/road noise. I think
it was not as good as my Sister's old Escape or her current RAV4. And
the prices are excessive. My friend paid much more for the CR-V than
any of the three RAV-4s I am familar with. What Ford are you comparing
to a CR-V? There is no way an Escape would cost 30% more. So what
"broke" on the Ford. My recent experience with Fords has been
excellent. As I mentioned above after almost 2 years and 35k miles by
Fusion has been perfect. Not one problem. My Sisters 7.5 year old
Escape never had a significant problem until it was wrecked.
> So what do we do? The problem I also see is that we allowed GM -
> Ford etc to get too big and engage in anti-competitive BS that put
> the independents out of business. (See Tucker) Between bad
> management and the two big companies being at war with innovation
> and any independent that started to become a threat - what we wound
> up with was a market ripe for the Japanese to rape. Is it because
> the Japanese can build better cars? Our autoworkers are the best in
> the world. But they are made to make crap!
I don't think American cars are crap. Of the cars I am intimately
familiar with, I rate my Fusion as the best. Second best would be the
Freestyle. In fact here is how I would rate the most recent vehicles I
am close to (overall - including reliability, best to worst):
2007 Fusion
2005 Freestyle
2008 Mazda 3
2001 Escape
2008 RAV4
2008 RAV4
2007 RAV4
2006 Mustang
1999 Ranger
2006 Frontier
1997 Civic
Have I owned "bad" American cars? Yes, I had a 2003 Saturn Vue that
had a poorly designed transmission. The 1981 Plymouth I owed was the
second most unreliable car I have ever owned. I had a 1978 Fairmont
that was poorly assembled (but very reliable). Both family members and
myself have owned unreliable foreign cars as well. The worst car I
ever owned was an mid-80 Toyota Cressida. An early 80's Mazda drove me
crazy with cooling system problems. My sister's late 70's Accord was
nothing to write home about. Her 1997 Civic, while reliable, was a
horrible car (at least at the end). I loved my Datsun Z car, but it
was in the shop more than any Ford I have ever owned. My Father owned
a Ford Courier that was a horrid thing to drive. Each of my Sisters
owned a VW - never again!
I think you are way off when you call American cars crap.
Ed
Eeyore
krp wrote:
> "Eeyore" wrote
> > krp wrote:
> >
> >> The latest from GM is that have downgraded it to 40 miles.
> >
> > You're talking utter nonsense.
>
> Sorry - GM is. Look at the VOLT website that the guy put up to get in line
> to buy them.
Which is ? Am I supposed to be psychic ?
> 75% of the people who pledged to buy one have backed out now
> that GM changed the specs and design.
They've changed the looks presumably to lower the Cd which with the original
design was likely to have been horrible. I see no serious change to the specs.
Graham
PerfectReign
The Accord was a nicer car than a 1979 Pinto, which by
> then was an old end of life design, but when Pintos were originally
> introduced there was nothing from Honda that I would have considered
> (did you ever drive an original Civic - I did).
One of my buddies' parents still has a CVCC. The dad bought it when he first
graduated medical school. Because it just didn't break, all five of their
kids got the car as their "first" to drive. Now it just pretty much sits,
but is still drivable.
Interesting little factoid - you have to use the clutch to engage first
gear, but then the automatic tranny takes over for second and third.
I have never driven it, simply because I can't fit my legs behind the
steering wheel. (This was the same reason my mother didn't pass me down
her '73 VW bug.)
--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org
government is a process which utilizes 45.5% gut reaction, 45.5% laws and
statutes and 1% logic
PerfectReign
> Have I owned "bad" American cars? Yes, I had a 2003 Saturn Vue that
> had a poorly designed transmission.
Did you have the CV tranny in the four-cylinder?
> he 1981 Plymouth I owed was the
> second most unreliable car I have ever owned. I had a 1978 Fairmont
> that was poorly assembled (but very reliable). Both family members and
> myself have owned unreliable foreign cars as well. The worst car I
> ever owned was an mid-80 Toyota Cressida.
I remember almost buying one of those. Never see them around.
C. E. White
My family owned 2 Pintos. I bought the first one in 1972 and drove it
for three years while I was in college. I autocrossed it regularly
(probably 15 times a year or so). When I graduated from college, I
bought a new car, and sold that Pinto to my younger Sister. She drove
it for another three years. When she graduated form college, she sold
it back to me. My intention was to use it as a commuter car, but it
didn't have A/C, so it wasn't long before I got tired of the hot
weather. At that point I sold it locally and lost track of it. In the
7 years and around 120k miles that I was associated with the car it
had three failures - a starter (which I burned out trying to keep the
car going when I had water in the gas), a throttle cable (my fault, I
had tied a knot in the cable where it connected to the pedal to raise
the pedal height for autocrossing), and a timing belt (I fixed that in
30 minutes on the side of the road). The car never showed any rust,
got decent mileage and was petty much bullet proof while we owned it.
The second Pinto was a 1973 model. It was a 2L Automatic. Initially my
younger sister drove it, then it was transfer to my older sister, and
my younger sister got mine. My older sister drove it until 1979. She
rarely changed the oil and never had the automatic transmission fluid
changed or the bands adjusted despite repeated warning from me and my
Father. Eventually the transmission refused to go into reverse. A
local transmission shop fixed it for a couple of hundred dollars.
Shortly after this she decided to buy a Honda Accord. Initially she
was going to trade in the Pinto, but about this time I was in a wreck
with my only car at the time (a Jensen-Healey), so I bought the Pinto
to drive while I fixed the JH. I drove it for about 4 months. After
the JH was back on the road, I sold the Pinto to a friend at work. His
kids drive the car to High School and College for the next 5 years. He
replaced one cam follower. Otherwise the car was trouble free. It had
over 200k on it when it was sold and I lost track of it.
I know there are people who owned Pintos had poor luck with them. But
the same is true of Hondas, Toyotas, etc. I can only comment on my own
experiences and the experiences of people close to me. Based on that,
I believe Pintos were very good vehicles. Compared to cars in the same
price range in the early 70's, they were an excellent value and very
reliable. I think most people who say bad things about Pintos, never
actually owned one, or even knew anyone that owned one.
> Talk about rusting. As to this, that was 30 years ago. The Civic of
> today rates extremely high compared to ANY American competition. I
> did say I waited until now, resisting buying a Japanese car until
> this year. Honda moved from a not so good car to consistently rating
> at the top for reliability and few maintenance troubles. Although my
> step son (23) has managed to eat a couple clutches in his 08 Civic
> S-1. I don't believe, however, that it is the car, it's the driver.
A couple of clutches???? And I though my Son was bad. I think Honda
makes fine cars. But I don't think they are that much better than
comparable vehicles from Ford or Chevy. And, at least for me, my
Fusion has far more room for the driver.
Ed
adventuremyk
wrote:
>I can't afford to own such "quality" cars as these that are recalled
>more often than they are sold.
One thing that gets me about most of the recalls. They are usually the
same sort of recalls from the same companies year in and year out.
Especially simple things like ignition switches.. How many millions of
cars/trucks have Ford and GM had to recall over ignition switches
throughout the last decade and yet they STILL get those recalls. No
other maker does. A simple fix? Find out what components and supplier
the other guys are using and GET THE SAME ONES! Problem solved, no
more 600k car recalls. Do this for the same things that are creeping
in every other year. Air bag igniters, the same tranny problems, etc.
Find out how the other guys fix the safety issues and do it. It's
really that friggen simple.
There are times when a totally new design will have unforseen
problems, like a whole new suspension or a completely different
electronic system. That sort of thing would fall into another category
and not apply above. It isn't just domestics that have the problem,
but it's the domestics that tend to have exactly the *same* problem
every couple months to years.
What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over
and expecting different results?
adventuremyk
Actually, Graham, in this case it is an inflated price.
For a specific example: we had already pre-negotiated a price on a new
Civic Si sedan for the wife. The car came in, the manager upped the
price to $1,500 over sticker after we had already agreed on a price.
On top of that, he added a $999 bs 'value pack' which was virtually
nothing adn then ordered a $2,500 aero kit that we told him we didn't
want and that he refused to send back. Yep, he told us 'take it or
leave it' after he had already agreed and shaken hands on the deal 3
days earlier. That is pretty typical of the Honda and Toyota
dealerships in my area.
The good news is that the one Honda dealer in the area who still
believes in customer service sold us the car for $1k under sticker, no
extra's, etc. and was a straight forward deal. They know they will get
my business when I come back for an S2k. The Si at the other dealer?
It sat there for 3 months with an MSRP of about $23k and a selling
price of over $28k!! No, this was not the Mugen...
The local Toyota dealers all inflate the price on average of
$1,500-2,500 over sticker with their BS add-ons and try to treat it as
a 'this is our no-haggle price'.
Find the honesty and lack of 'vast commissions' in that and get back
to me.
This is also why I tend to buy a 1 year down used car with few miles
from private sellers. Much better bang for the buck and I flat out
refuse to pay doc fee's, ESPECIALLY on a used car. Unfortunately, she
really wanted a new one. (and no, I didn't pay a doc fee on it,
either)
Gosi
Why are they so unpopular?
They are obviously not all crooked.
Even so there seem to be quite a lot of people seeking this profession
who are not totally honest.
They usually dress up and like the cars are looking good on the
outside.
It is hard to detect the flaws.
This is even more obvious with used cars and used car salesmen.
There are numerous stories about the tricks used to paint over
problems so it all looks nice on the outside.
The car salesman is often picture as a smooth talking guy who is out
to get your money without giving you what he is promising.
The papers you sign often contain small print you are not supposed to
notice until you have paid for the car and find out that underneath
the paint there are all kinds of problems.
The dealers who sell a particular brand are supposed to be the car
manufacturers face towards the customer.
They are also supposed to be the manufacturers eyes and ears.
If these eyes and ears are not working properly and if they are
fooling the customer then it all reflects back to the manufacturer in
the end.
You have big food chains like subway and macdonalds.
They pretty much sell the same stuff in all their outlets.
Keep the same state of quality everywhere.
GM has clearly missed this important aspect of their business.
You should be able to go into any GM store and get your bigchevy
looking the same, tasting the same, operating the same and the
customer should be getting the same service everywhere.
It is quite obviously not so and if GM is supposed to live in the
future they have to clean up their act.
They need to deliver the same standard all over.
They need to cut down on the middle management by 90% beginning at the
top and if that sounds much that is nothing compared to the
alternative which is cutting down the company 100%
PerfectReign
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 03:46:33 +0100, Eeyore
> <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>adventuremyk wrote:
>>
>>> I did see another post about how horrible many of the GM/Ford
>>> dealerships are run and 'that's why I drive a Honda', yet Honda
>>> frequently has the worst rated sales practices of 'this is the price,
>>> take it or leave it.
>>
>>Maybe because it's an honest price and not inflated by vast commissions ?
>
> Actually, Graham, in this case it is an inflated price.
>
> For a specific example: we had already pre-negotiated a price on a new
> Civic Si sedan for the wife.
I remember reading somewhere that either Honda or Toyota have a "US Markup"
that dealers are not allowed to remove from the price.
C. E. White
"PerfectReign" <theperf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:16750268.j0vtldZcq2@perfectreign...
> C. E. White turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:
>
>> Have I owned "bad" American cars? Yes, I had a 2003 Saturn Vue that
>> had a poorly designed transmission.
>
> Did you have the CV tranny in the four-cylinder?
Yep. As long as I was driving the car it was fine (especially after
the first transmission recall). But when my son turned 16, I gave the
car to him to drive. He destroyed the transmission after about 1 month
of driving. It was replaced under warranty, and I dumped the car
before he took it out again. The Saturn dealership claimed it had been
abused, and maybe it had. I didn't care, I traded the car in and never
looked back.
>> he 1981 Plymouth I owed was the
>> second most unreliable car I have ever owned. I had a 1978 Fairmont
>> that was poorly assembled (but very reliable). Both family members
>> and
>> myself have owned unreliable foreign cars as well. The worst car I
>> ever owned was an mid-80 Toyota Cressida.
>
> I remember almost buying one of those. Never see them around.
I saw one in my area recently. For an older Toyota it didn't look too
bad. Like most Toyotas more than a few years old, the paint was faded
and the bumpers were gray instead of the original black. However it
was moving and not smoking too much. Much better than the typical 15+
year old Toyota.
Ed
Paradox
well??
I used to work at the Phoenix Bill Heard store, and believe me, the sales
dept was pretty shady, they made chevy look bad.
"necromancer" <55_sux@worldofnecromancer_no_spam_no_way.org> wrote in
message news:vsald4hsc6n1qebdh...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:53:03 -0400, "C. E. White"
> <cewh...@removemindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >Bill Heard Enterprises closes its doors
> >
> >Bill Heard Enterprises Inc., the world's top-selling Chevrolet
> >dealership group, is closing the doors at its 13 stores today, the
> >company said in a statement. The company notified the stores' general
> >managers at 2 p.m. today, said a source familiar with the situation,
> >who spoke anonymously. High fuel prices, canceled floorplanning from
> >GMAC Financial Services, a reliance on sales of pickups ...
>
> And this:
>
> "As MBJ sister paper Atlanta Business Chronicle reported in July 2007,
> Bill Heard faced a $50 million deceptive advertising lawsuit and was
> bombarded with a litany of complaints from consumers in the states
> where it operated."
>
cse...@mts.net
>>
>> In order to "cut costs", GM listened to the bean counters and deleted from
>> the truck in 2004 the rear door marker lights, passenger floor lights,
>> glove box light, hood light and the passenger side cargo bay light.
>
>> Though I could understand some need for cost cutting, did they actually
>> save
>> anything in this or did they just piss off every 2004> Avalanche buyer?
>
> If we can have a "no-shit moment" in one board meeting at GM, one of the
>young execs with a Harvard MBA incredulously asked WHY they had to have 5
>lug nuts on the wheels of their cars, wouldn't 2 do the same job? He
>calculated the savings for GM.
>
Thirty years ago I heard the story "save a nickel - save a dime".
Invariably the North Am car makers save a dime. This is why Ford
sold cars in 1968 with wee plastic plugs in the front end joints
instead of grease nipples that at the factory would have cost 10 for a
penny. I spent a lot of time selling and installing nipples in cars
back then. Asian car makers do the same thing except they save a
nickel and provide those little things that make a car worth buying.
Back then those Asian cars were shit boxes, but were still miles
(kilometers) ahead of the big three.
Dealers don't make the cars - they sell them just like Sears sells
someone elses product. Don't blame the car because some dealers play
games with you.
And your right about the bean counters who can't count customers.
It's truely incredible how these idiots can fuck up a nicely designed
car with a calculator and a disconnected brain.
Henry Ford once said "If everbody bought genuine Ford parts, we could
afford to give our cars away." Think about quality here.
The general manager of GM once said "What's good for General Motors is
good for the USA." Think about arrogance here.
From the Chysler board of directors "We don't need people telling us
what to build. We'll tell people what they want." Think about head
in the sand here.
In another post some one pointed out that malibu et al was voted car
of the year. Wine me, dine me, get me laid and send me a new car:
then read my praises. If Yugo did that for me I would flog their cars
far and ahead all others (of course they would have to send me a
Lexus). When I look for a car, I get a copy of Consumer Reports for
unbiased ratings. Seems rather stupid to take the words of a GaGa
eyed little boy for Car & Driver.
krp
<cse...@mts.net> wrote in message news:48db9d39...@news.mts.net...
Dead on. That's why - Nash, Hudson, Kaiser, Frazier, Willys, Studebaker,
Packard and so on are no longer with us. It's also why you cannot buy a TV
set made in the U.S.A.
krp
"C. E. White" <cewh...@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:48dcd735$1@kcnews01...
>>>>> The Malibu was named "North American Car of the Year" (kicking the
>>>>> Honda Accord's ass in the process), as well as being placed on "Car
>>>>> and Driver's" "10 best cars for 2008", along with the Cadillac CTS and
>>>>> Chevy Corvette. The Malibu was also chosen by Kelley Blue Book as the
>>>>> "Best redesigned vehicle for 2008".
>>>>
>>>> And yet when you read Consumer's Reports there are all those pesky
>>>> black dots and the conclusion that repairs are "substantially higher
>>>> than average" and Honda rates "substantially better than average." I
>>>> tend NOT to listen to a magazine that once rated the Ford Pinto as CAR
>>>> OF THE YEAR!
>>>
>>> Ah, you're one of the morons who buys something based on what
>>> "Consumer's Reports" say. My work with you is done.
>>
>> No, CR didn't get me to buy the Honda. Knowing cars did. How many of
>> the INDY cars are using Chevy or Ford powerplants today?
>
> Since 2006 the only Ihdy engine has been a Honda V-8. This has absolutely
> nothing to do with production vehicles. The Indy series is a spec series.
> Everybody uses chassis from the same company as well. Does that imply that
> all vehicle manufaturers make crap cars since they don't supply Indy car
> chassis?
Why don't they use Ford engines???
>> You can check the frequency of repair info, such as the Powers reports,
>> or speak to mechanics. You can also check with the auto parts people. The
>> top 3 Japanese companies do well, the others not so well. Mitsubishi, for
>> example, turned into pure crap a few years ago. The Korean cars are
>> making huge strides. By and large the American made cars are crap.
> If you look at the JD Power rankings, almost all current vehciles are very
> reliable (both initially and long term). Consumer Reports recently revised
> the numbers used to determine the little dots to emphasize what are
> actually very small differences in reliability.
Sorry last book I saw showed almost the whole Chevrolet line as worse
than average and Honda much better than average.
I still like my Honda.
>> I have said for the past 2 decades; "If you want to take a great
>> company and put it into bankruptcy within a year, put a Harvard MBA in
>> charge!" Their only theme is make SHIT real fast and cheap! What amazes
>> me is these clowns take over running a company, ruin it, and leave with a
>> $90 MILLION golden parachute.
>> Go figure.
>
>> I held off buying a foreign car as long as I could. Finally I had to
>> give in. The competitors from the US didn't get near the gas mileage of
>> my Honda (CR-V) costs 30% more and were CRAP! The Ford BROKE on my test
>> drive. BROKE.. Had to get TOWED back to the store. Chevy was cramped,
>> noisy as hell. The Jeep liberty, about as close as Chrysler comes to a
>> comparable vehicle pinched my ass with the narrow seats. (Overly wide
>> center console). I suppose it's fine if you weight 120 pounds. I don't.
> I liked the older CR-Vs, however my two Sisters and my SO all decided the
> Toyota RAV4 was a btter vehicle that the current CR-V. I rode in a
> firend's 2008 CR-V earlier this year on a beach trip. The vehicle was a
> little cramped and suffered from a lot of wind/road noise. I think it was
> not as good as my Sister's old Escape or her current RAV4. And the prices
> are excessive. My friend paid much more for the CR-V than any of the three
> RAV-4s I am familar with. What Ford are you comparing to a CR-V? There is
> no way an Escape would cost 30% more. So what "broke" on the Ford. My
> recent experience with Fords has been excellent. As I mentioned above
> after almost 2 years and 35k miles by Fusion has been perfect. Not one
> problem. My Sisters 7.5 year old Escape never had a significant problem
> until it was wrecked.
What BROKE was the transmission. CLUNK rattle rattle stop.
>> So what do we do? The problem I also see is that we allowed GM - Ford
>> etc to get too big and engage in anti-competitive BS that put the
>> independents out of business. (See Tucker) Between bad management and the
>> two big companies being at war with innovation and any independent that
>> started to become a threat - what we wound up with was a market ripe for
>> the Japanese to rape. Is it because the Japanese can build better cars?
>> Our autoworkers are the best in the world. But they are made to make
>> crap!
> I don't think American cars are crap. Of the cars I am intimately familiar
> with, I rate my Fusion as the best. Second best would be the Freestyle. In
> fact here is how I would rate the most recent vehicles I am close to
> (overall - including reliability, best to worst):
I do think the American cars are crap.
krp
>
>
> krp wrote:
>
>> "Eeyore" wrote
>> > krp wrote:
>> >
>> >> The latest from GM is that have downgraded it to 40 miles.
>> >
>> > You're talking utter nonsense.
>>
>> Sorry - GM is. Look at the VOLT website that the guy put up to get in
>> line
>> to buy them.
>
> Which is ? Am I supposed to be psychic ?
http://www.chevyvoltforum.com/index.php?showtopic=59
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/08/unofficial-gm-volt-chevy-waiting-list.php
http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/12/gm-volt-wait-list-generation-20-list-tops-33000-members/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_Volt
krp
>> Talk about rusting. As to this, that was 30 years ago. The Civic of today
>> rates extremely high compared to ANY American competition. I did say I
>> waited until now, resisting buying a Japanese car until this year. Honda
>> moved from a not so good car to consistently rating at the top for
>> reliability and few maintenance troubles. Although my step son (23) has
>> managed to eat a couple clutches in his 08 Civic S-1. I don't believe,
>> however, that it is the car, it's the driver.
>
> A couple of clutches???? And I though my Son was bad. I think Honda makes
> fine cars. But I don't think they are that much better than comparable
> vehicles from Ford or Chevy. And, at least for me, my Fusion has far more
> room for the driver.
Trust me it is NOT the car it is a driver who rides the hell out of the
clutch. The flywheel was also blackened.
PerfectReign
>
> "PerfectReign" <theperf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:16750268.j0vtldZcq2@perfectreign...
>> C. E. White turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:
>>
>>> Have I owned "bad" American cars? Yes, I had a 2003 Saturn Vue that
>>> had a poorly designed transmission.
>>
>> Did you have the CV tranny in the four-cylinder?
>
> Yep. As long as I was driving the car it was fine (especially after
> the first transmission recall). But when my son turned 16, I gave the
> car to him to drive. He destroyed the transmission after about 1 month
> of driving. It was replaced under warranty, and I dumped the car
> before he took it out again. The Saturn dealership claimed it had been
> abused, and maybe it had. I didn't care, I traded the car in and never
> looked back.
Hmm - too bad.
My wife has an '05 Vue V6. It has the Honda engine/tranny. I'm hoping the
tranny blows (as most honda ones apparently do) before the 60K warranty
expires.
>
>>> he 1981 Plymouth I owed was the
>>> second most unreliable car I have ever owned. I had a 1978 Fairmont
>>> that was poorly assembled (but very reliable). Both family members
>>> and
>>> myself have owned unreliable foreign cars as well. The worst car I
>>> ever owned was an mid-80 Toyota Cressida.
>>
>> I remember almost buying one of those. Never see them around.
>
> I saw one in my area recently. For an older Toyota it didn't look too
> bad. Like most Toyotas more than a few years old, the paint was faded
> and the bumpers were gray instead of the original black. However it
> was moving and not smoking too much. Much better than the typical 15+
> year old Toyota.
Nice to see someone else with the same opinion. I often have complained how
Toyota cars and trucks "age" prematurely. No one seems to agree.
The only older Toyota trucks I like are the mid-70's FJ40 and FJ60 trucks.
I'd like to take one of those and drop a Cummins 3.9L/4BT in there. :P
Gosi
When you think about it then banks and insurance companies are every
bit like car dealers.
They dress up nice and look good on the outside but there is a lot of
small print to rip you off.
krp
"Ashton Crusher" <de...@moore.net> wrote in message
news:hn7vd4hiaoqprkfeq...@4ax.com...
> The difference between a Chevy and any other car in quality is
> infinitesimal. I've had fleet Chevies, and sometimes Fords, at work
> for 30 years and hardly ever have a problem. My last Chevy was a 95
> Caprice that did not need a single major repair in the 13 years and
> 135,000 miles it was in our fleet. Just look at the JD Power ratings
> and once you normalize them to problems per CAR, not per hundred cars,
> you see there is barely a dimes worth of difference between any of the
> top half of the list. Why do you hate America?
Company I worked for once had a fleet of Fords. At any given time 25% of
the fleet was down. You can like your Chevy. I'll keep my Honda.
krp
> When the Honda civic first came out a co-worker bought one. When he
> drove us to lunch in the summer it was like a sweat box and that was
> with the AC on high and the car could barely get out of it's own way.
> He got rid of it after a few years and bought one of the GM Personal
> Luxury cars that were popular back then. He was SO much happier with
> his GM.
All the Japanese cars into the mid 80's had rotary compressors on them. They
were poor at best. The first Japanese cars in America were TERRIBLE, like
the first Korean cars. A 1962 Honda is NOT a 2008 Honda! BUT if you NEED to
make that comparison to feel good about your New American car, that's okay
too.
Edwin Pawlowski
> of the fleet was down.
Just last week our workman's comp insurance inspector said when they had a
fleet of Fords, at one point 50% were down.
OTOH, many of the opinions expressed in newsgroups are from people that own
one or two cars that were either very good or very bad. Every manufacturer
has a few that are off the scale in each direction.
cse...@mts.net
>
>The difference between a Chevy and any other car in quality is
>infinitesimal. I've had fleet Chevies, and sometimes Fords, at work
>for 30 years and hardly ever have a problem. My last Chevy was a 95
>Caprice that did not need a single major repair in the 13 years and
>135,000 miles it was in our fleet. Just look at the JD Power ratings
>and once you normalize them to problems per CAR, not per hundred cars,
>you see there is barely a dimes worth of difference between any of the
>top half of the list.
>
"What's good for General Motors is good for the USA" CEO General
Motors. This was said more than 60 years ago and this thinking hasn't
changed.
I worked with a Jewish woman who liked to tell ethnic jokes to the
ethnic (Polish jokes to a Pole, etc). This got tired real fast so I
told her a Jew joke. She wailed "Why does everyone hate the Jews".
Are you two related? Why are you so defensive? What is there to
defend? Your 'American' car is global, meaning that parts that used
to made in America now come from around the world and the
subassemblies are merely assembled here - most of the time. Some
times the whole car comes here and the name tag is changed to read GM,
Ford, Chrysler and they add a bit of trim. The bullshit that happens
in corporate America boardrooms is indefensable. These are the high
paid people who are jerking your chain. Spend a nickel - spend a
dime. Hmmm, lets just spend a nickel.
You need to look into who owns or controls the firms and publications
like JD Power, Car and Driver and so on. It might give you a new
perspective on who's slinging the bullshit for who and who's getting
paid for it by who. Follow the money.
P
krp
"Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:mtQDk.1161$fD....@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com...
Granted my experience was at the end of the 60's and early 70's. On my
Galaxie 500, the doors fell off twice. The hood flew off 6 times, and the
car started on fire on the freeway 6 times. Mine was one of the BETTER ones.
Water pumps went out with amazing regularity as did power steering units,
the electrical system was a nightmare. They lived up to the nickname "FIX
OR REPAIR DAILY!" We had something like 3500 of them. PURE SHIT! Then I got
a 72 Chevy Impala. JUST AS BAD!! Recently had pretty good luck with Chrysler
products. My neighbor traded his ailing pain in the ass Silverado on a
Toyota. He's feeling much better now. Hell there were some people who LOVED
their Yugos. We've had folks here RAVE about the Ford Pintos and Chevy
Vegas they had. Cars are cars and a brand can have some good and some bad. I
know a guy who had a Rolls Royce and had nothing but trouble with it for 2
years. They gave him a new one.
The Vega and Pinto were two of the WORST cars ever built in America. Had to
do when some of the old Nash cars with trunion suspensions would just kneel
down one day and have to be towed. I know people who put 100,000 miles on
them. I know people with old Kaisers with over a million miles on them and
they are still running, yet in their day the Kaiser wasn't considered a very
good car.
By and large today's GM products are considered crap. Same with Ford. Which
is why BOTH are teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. There was a day when
American cars were the best in the world. That was a LONG LONG LONG LONG
time ago! Today the car companies are run by BEAN COUNTERS! Look at the
corporate structure of all 3 American companies. Almost ALL the management
types are MBAs. Even the head of ENGINEERING isn't an engineer but an MBA.
No sales people. MBAs who keep their eye on the 'BOTTOM LINE!"
Same shit that has our whole economy in the toilet. MBA's running the
Treasury etc!
Edwin Pawlowski
> By and large today's GM products are considered crap. Same with Ford.
At that time, every car was crap compared to what anyone is turning out
today. Times have changed and GM and Ford both make decent cars. Anyone
using data from 1970 to make a decision today is just plain silly.
Mike Marlow
Come on - Ashton's comments are very fair as this thread has unfolded. Look
back through this thread and see how many posters have hurled acclaim at the
Honda's of the 70's which were really pure junk. Likewise Toyota (except
for a model or two here and there) and Datusn (likewise, except for a model
here and there). They were major rust buckets that didn't go 1/2 the
mileage of even a Vega (which was not at all known for it's body integrity),
and certainly earned their reputation at the time for being pure junk. He
was not talking about the Honda of today - he was taking in context, and in
reply to a portion of this thread that was making reference to the cars of
the 70's.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
Mike Marlow
>
> Granted my experience was at the end of the 60's and early 70's. On my
> Galaxie 500, the doors fell off twice. The hood flew off 6 times, and the
> car started on fire on the freeway 6 times.
I'm sorry - I well remember those years and I find this statement to be
completely absurd. Not that I can call you a liar, but I am 100% certain
that there is much more to this story. And... I'll bet the sequel exposes
more about the car owner than the car.
> Mine was one of the BETTER ones.
Now - on this statement, I'll offer a simple statement - Bullshit!
> Water pumps went out with amazing regularity as did power steering units,
> the electrical system was a nightmare. They lived up to the nickname "FIX
> OR REPAIR DAILY!" We had something like 3500 of them. PURE SHIT! Then I
> got a 72 Chevy Impala. JUST AS BAD!! Recently had pretty good luck with
> Chrysler products. My neighbor traded his ailing pain in the ass Silverado
> on a Toyota.
And my neighbor just bought another new Silverado because he has had nothing
but the best of service from the ones he's owned over the years.
> He's feeling much better now.
And just why is he so much happier with the highest recall truck on the
road?
> Hell there were some people who LOVED their Yugos.
They are the people who just LOVE their Toyotas and Hondas today, even
though they are nothing better than the vehicles they so love to bash.
> We've had folks here RAVE about the Ford Pintos and Chevy Vegas they had.
> Cars are cars and a brand can have some good and some bad. I know a guy
> who had a Rolls Royce and had nothing but trouble with it for 2 years.
> They gave him a new one.
> The Vega and Pinto were two of the WORST cars ever built in America.
Compared to what? In their day, they were both great values and problematic
at the same time. The Vega suffered no more body rot issues than the Ford
Maverick of the same era, every Chrylser product produced, and for certain -
every Japanese car sold at the time. No - they weren't the worst cars ever
built in America. They were in some respects, the best cars ever produced
up to that time. They were a hell of a lot better than the Japanese imports
of the same era.
>
> By and large today's GM products are considered crap.
Sadly, this is too true.
> Same with Ford. Which is why BOTH are teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.
Close, but not correct. More accurately, the reason that they are crap
today is the same reason that they are having their financial problems.
Make that problem the fact that accountants are making design decisions.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
Mike Marlow
<cse...@mts.net> wrote in message news:48dfc0ba...@news.mts.net...
> "What's good for General Motors is good for the USA" CEO General
> Motors. This was said more than 60 years ago and this thinking hasn't
> changed.
You should do a little more research. For one - you should be able to cite
who you quote, and not fall back on "CEO General Motors", which makes it
clear that you don't know what you're talking about. For another - you
should consider the context of the quote.
>
> The bullshit that happens
> in corporate America boardrooms is indefensable. These are the high
> paid people who are jerking your chain. Spend a nickel - spend a
> dime. Hmmm, lets just spend a nickel.
In America??? Perhaps you should look a little closer to home. This is
indeed a real problem, but this is far - very far from and American problem.
>
> You need to look into who owns or controls the firms and publications
> like JD Power, Car and Driver and so on. It might give you a new
> perspective on who's slinging the bullshit for who and who's getting
> paid for it by who. Follow the money.
>
Well - put your money where your mouth is. Enlighten everyone. Tell us who
owns these companies.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
Vic Smith
wrote:
Usual stuff from those whose last experience with GM/Ford was 30 years
ago. Besides that, these types always managed to have 50 times the
problems of just about everybody else. Wonder why.
Can anybody explain why somebody who had a hood fly off 6 times on the
same car isn't one lame-ass? Just plain unadulterated dumb.
I've been driving GM's, one Ford and one Chryco for 40+ years and only
once had to get a tow.
Best car I had by far was an '88 Celebrity with 2.8. Junked at 190k
miles because of rust.
Yet I had some Jap car lover tell me his father-in-law had the same
car and the dashboard fell off! Just plain stupid.
These guys aren't worth talking to. If they ain't plain lying, or
plain don't know cars, they are plain jinxed and it's best to keep
your distance so you don't catch any of that bad mojo from them.
Having said that, I wouldn't buy a new design from GM until it's at
least a few years old. Don't trust them either.
BTW, I've nothing against the Jap cars, and recommend the Corolla.
--Vic
krp
Are the cars better today than in 1970? Of course. It would be hard to
be worse. But from a reliability view they still suck compared to many
foreign brands. Good example? You can't keep main bearing seals on the GM
3.8 and above V-6. Any time the engine passes 6k rpm the seals are likely to
go. GM has never been able to build an efficient a/c system. Ford can't
build one that doesn't constantly break. Chrysler will freeze you out. My
reference to 1970 was that GM and Ford haven't built a decent car since. In
fact, I think the last decent Chevy was 1957. Maybe into 1960. Same with
Ford. Are the American cars better today? Yeah about as good as a 1990
Japanese car. But the Japanese are better than they were in 1990. Hate to
say this by lowly Hyundai and Kia are better than most American cars.
How can I say this? Go into a Buick dealership. See the 70 year old
salesmen. Then see the customers who call the salesmen "SONNY!" and you
start to get the idea. It got so bad for Oldsmobile that their LAST customer
died of old age.Without him there was no point going on. Maybe you miss the
FACTS that sales for GM and Ford are down and both companies are dancing on
the line of going bankrupt. The simple fact is that IF they built a decent
car that people wanted they would be on top again. They are building the
WRONG cars and building them poorly! But what do you expect when you have a
Harvard MBA designing the car? A son of a bitch that doesn't even know how
to START a car! Oh they have real engineers, but the MBA in charge runs it.
Detroit no longer listens to the CAR people (engineers) not the sales folks
who TRY IN VAIN to tell them what cars they need. All we know is BOTTOM LINE
BOTTOM LINE. And you hear crap in board meeting of "Just why in hell do we
need 5 lug bolts on the damn wheels? " CLUELESS!
krp
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlo...@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:5ba58$48e03b80$62107b6e$19...@ALLTEL.NET...
>>> When the Honda civic first came out a co-worker bought one. When he
>>> drove us to lunch in the summer it was like a sweat box and that was
>>> with the AC on high and the car could barely get out of it's own way.
>>> He got rid of it after a few years and bought one of the GM Personal
>>> Luxury cars that were popular back then. He was SO much happier with
>>> his GM.
>>
>> All the Japanese cars into the mid 80's had rotary compressors on them.
>> They were poor at best. The first Japanese cars in America were TERRIBLE,
>> like the first Korean cars. A 1962 Honda is NOT a 2008 Honda! BUT if you
>> NEED to make that comparison to feel good about your New American car,
>> that's okay too.
> Come on - Ashton's comments are very fair as this thread has unfolded.
> Look back through this thread and see how many posters have hurled acclaim
> at the Honda's of the 70's which were really pure junk.
See - here we go again. IF you NEED to call the Honda junk to feel good
about your American car HAVE AT IT. Remember the CVCC? That was a Honda.
> Likewise Toyota (except > for a model or two here and there) and Datusn
> (likewise, except for a model here and there). They were major rust
> buckets that didn't go 1/2 the mileage of even a Vega (which was not at
> all known for it's body integrity), and certainly earned their reputation
> at the time for being pure junk. He was not talking about the Honda of
> today - he was taking in context, and in reply to a portion of this thread
> that was making reference to the cars of the 70's.
Okay okay you sold me the VEGA was the best car ever built. MUCH better
than the Rolls Royce. Honda certainly can't build a good Car. CHEVY RULES!
The Vette is the FASTEST car EVER built! MUCH faster than the Maseratti and
Lamborghini or Ferarri.
The Honda of 1970 wasn't a great car. In context, however, it was better
than the PURE shit coming out of Detroit.
krp
>
> " krp" <kr...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:IkSDk.600$Dk4...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
>>
>> Granted my experience was at the end of the 60's and early 70's. On my
>> Galaxie 500, the doors fell off twice. The hood flew off 6 times, and the
>> car started on fire on the freeway 6 times.
>
> I'm sorry - I well remember those years and I find this statement to be
> completely absurd. Not that I can call you a liar, but I am 100% certain
> that there is much more to this story. And... I'll bet the sequel exposes
> more about the car owner than the car.
It was a FLEET! Ah shit this has gotten pointless. Ford is the BEST CAR in
the world Even better than the Chevy! OKAY?
krp
>
> <cse...@mts.net> wrote in message news:48dfc0ba...@news.mts.net...
>
>> "What's good for General Motors is good for the USA" CEO General
>> Motors. This was said more than 60 years ago and this thinking hasn't
>> changed.
>
> You should do a little more research. For one - you should be able to
> cite who you quote, and not fall back on "CEO General Motors", which makes
> it clear that you don't know what you're talking about. For another - you
> should consider the context of the quote.
Right it was Mr. HONDA who said that! CHEVY RULES!!!!
Which is, of course, WHY all the Indy cars use Chevy engines and NOT Honda
engines.....
(Did I just get that backwards?)
C. E. White
> Granted my experience was at the end of the 60's and early 70's. On
> my Galaxie 500, the doors fell off twice. The hood flew off 6 times,
> and the car started on fire on the freeway 6 times. Mine was one of
> the BETTER ones. Water pumps went out with amazing regularity as did
> power steering units, the electrical system was a nightmare.
This smacks of made up bullshit. My parents owned a 1969 Country
Sedan (Galaxie Station Wagon) and a 1972 Country Squire (this one got
the plastic wood grain). I was 16 when they got the 1969 and I drove
crap out of it. It was almost indestructible. I say almost because I
pulled out in front of a 1967 Galaxie (bad intersection, sun in my
eyes) and got hit in the rear corner. We drove the car to the
dealership to trade it in but it was in bad shape (frame bent). I grew
up around people who owned Fords (small town, one Ford Dealer, One
Chevy Dealer, one Chrysler dealer) and mostly everyone drove one of
the big three cars. I never remember anyone having a door fall off a
Ford, or a hood fly up much less "off." . There is no way you had all
those things happen to one car, probably not even a fleet of cars.
Ed
C. E. White
Yet you constantly bash American car citing your exeriences (most
likey BS) with American cars built 38 years ago.....
Ed
Vic Smith
Here's what I really want to know, Ed.
Since auto groups are seeing these posts, I think it's a good
question.
What kind of automotive judgement should one expect from somebody who
admits he owned, and apparently paid for a car whose hood flew off 6
times. caught fire 6 times, and doors fell off twice?
Would you trust this person's judgement about cars?
I certainly don't. This guy's got really bad car mojo.
Just my opinion.
--Vic
C. E. White
And that engine system was CRAP. If you are citting the CVCC engine as
evidence of Honda "goodness" then you are making my case for me. If it
was so great, why did they quit using the system? Hondas in the early
70's were small, and got great gas mileage. They also broke often and
runsted away, even here in NC. I can't imagine what they must have
been like in the northeast or midwest.
>> Likewise Toyota (except > for a model or two here and there) and
>> Datusn (likewise, except for a model here and there). They were
>> major rust buckets that didn't go 1/2 the mileage of even a Vega
>> (which was not at all known for it's body integrity), and certainly
>> earned their reputation at the time for being pure junk. He was
>> not talking about the Honda of today - he was taking in context,
>> and in reply to a portion of this thread that was making reference
>> to the cars of the 70's.
>
>
> Okay okay you sold me the VEGA was the best car ever built. MUCH
> better than the Rolls Royce. Honda certainly can't build a good Car.
> CHEVY RULES!
> The Vette is the FASTEST car EVER built! MUCH faster than the
> Maseratti and Lamborghini or Ferarri.
>
> The Honda of 1970 wasn't a great car. In context, however, it was
> better than the PURE shit coming out of Detroit.
Only in your twisted mind. I doubt you have ever even seen a 1970
Honda, much less driven one.
I think Honda builds decent cars. Honda vehicles are generally well
engineered and well assembled. I really like the current Accord Coupe,
but unfortunately it's driving position is uncomfortable for me. Every
time I see the current four door Accord, I think Saturn. I'd love to
own an S2000, except it is too cramped for me. The Pilot and Odyssey
are nice, but I don't want a mini-van (or a mini van disguised as an
SUV). The Ridgeline is a bad joke. The current CR-V is nice enough,
but probably only third or fourth best in class. The Civics are really
nice, but again despite being much larger on the outside, they are
still cramped inside. I just don't have any interest in the Element.
So, at least for now, Honda makes nothing I am interested in. It
doesn't mean I wouldn't buy on in the future (especially an S2000 if
they would just make the interior a little larger, say maybe as large
as a BMW Roadster).
Ed
C. E. White
<cse...@mts.net> wrote in message
news:48db9d39...@news.mts.net...
> Henry Ford once said "If everbody bought genuine Ford parts, we
> could
> afford to give our cars away." Think about quality here.
Can you cite a source for this? I've never heard it attributed to Ford
before. I'll bet you are taking it out of context.
> The general manager of GM once said "What's good for General Motors
> is
> good for the USA." Think about arrogance here.
Geez, this is a misquote of what was actually said by Charles Wilson.
The following account explains it better than I could:
"Wilson's nomination sparked a major controversy during his
confirmation hearings before the Senate Armed Services Committee,
specifically over his large stockholdings in General Motors. Reluctant
to sell the stock, valued at more than $2.5 million, Wilson agreed to
do so under committee pressure. During the hearings, when asked if as
secretary of defense he could make a decision adverse to the interests
of General Motors, Wilson answered affirmatively but added that he
could not conceive of such a situation "because for years I thought
what was good for the country was good for General Motors and vice
versa." Later this statement was often garbled when quoted, suggesting
that Wilson had said simply, "What's good for General Motors is good
for the country." "
Essentially the guy said that the economy of the US and GM were
interlinked, which was clearly true.
> From the Chysler board of directors "We don't need people telling us
> what to build. We'll tell people what they want." Think about
> head
> in the sand here.
Can you cite a source for this quote? Actually of the three "quotes"
you have cited, it is the most believable. I've worked with Product
Planners in my job and they often feel this way - whether the product
is toasters or cars. You almost have to have this sort of arrogance as
a product planner. If you don't, you'll just keep building the same
old products with minor variations (i.e., the Toyota product game plan
sans the Prius). Truly innovative products almost never come from
building what people "say" they want. If you do that, you'll just be
building what they are used to. I've never been a big Chrysler fan,
but I do give them credit for at least trying to be innovative in the
50's, 60's, and even the '70's. A lot of what they tried did not work
out because of poor execution, but at least they tried. I give Honda
credit in this area as well.
> In another post some one pointed out that malibu et al was voted car
> of the year. Wine me, dine me, get me laid and send me a new car:
> then read my praises. If Yugo did that for me I would flog their
> cars
> far and ahead all others (of course they would have to send me a
> Lexus). When I look for a car, I get a copy of Consumer Reports
> for
> unbiased ratings. Seems rather stupid to take the words of a GaGa
> eyed little boy for Car & Driver.
Motor Trend awards "Car/Truck/SUV/etc of the Year" awards. These
awards have always been awarded based, in part, on who would buy the
most advertising in the magazine (this is true whether Ford, Honda,
Toyota or GM products win the award). It is among the most fraudulent
"car" awards. The Car and Driver Ten best awards are not quite as bad,
although I suspect there is some bias based on advertising pages
purchased, how well the staff is treated by the various PR departs,
and certainly the personal biases of the staff. I think CR opinions
generally represent the biases of the editorial staff and are not
much influenced by pressure (economic or otherwise) from the
manufacturers. This doesn't mean that CR is not biased, rather the CR
staff just has different biases. CR has economic motives for
"adjusting" their opinions just like everyone else. Theirs motives are
just different.
Ed
adventuremyk
>Granted my experience was at the end of the 60's and early 70's. On my
>Galaxie 500, the doors fell off twice. The hood flew off 6 times, and the
>car started on fire on the freeway 6 times. Mine was one of the BETTER ones.
>Water pumps went out with amazing regularity as did power steering units,
>the electrical system was a nightmare.
Call it common sense but I'm going to have to sit back and call BS on
this one. If you had doors fall off, nevermind twice, you have a
serious problem. If the hood flew off once, that's a problem. If the
repair is so bad it does it another 5, that's even worse. lastly, if
the car started on fire 6 times on the freeway? Come on now. That car
would have been lemon-lawed and sold for scrap after the first
incident or two. Either that or you have the worlds most incompetent
mechanics trying to piece it back together. Either way, that just
reads as highly exaggerated if not made up entirely.
In iether case, a 38-48 year old vehicle is hardly representative of
any company from any country currently made so that's a pretty
pointless argument.
C. E. White
"Vic Smith" <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4ff1e497cifq5aqkh...@4ax.com...
I think he just made the whole thing up. The hoods on Galaxies were
not attached any differently than the norm for the day (foreign or
domestic). I could believe that the latch was improperly installed
allowing the hood to unexpectedly fly up (and possibly off) one time.
But after that, it is impossible to believe it happened again, unless
the mechanic that reinstalled it was a complete idiot. So MAYBE the
mechanic was a complete idiot and the hood flew up a second time. But
four more times? He is either lying or incompetent. Take your pick.
Likewise for the door. The hinges and door latches for a Galaxie were
typical of the day (for call US and most imported cars). Maybe I could
believe the factory did not properly tighten the bolds, but loose
bolts would show up as a "loose" door long before the door would just
fall off. And then the idea the car caught fire 6 times - once is
usually enough to total a car. It is not bad mojo, it is bad honesty
at work here.
Ed
Vic Smith
<cewh...@removemindspring.com> wrote:
Maybe, but I give him the benefit of the doubt. More fun.
Most of the guys spouting this kind of stuff are really clueless about
cars. Like Honda Indy engines mean anything to Joe six-pack.
That's why I always recommend to them they just get a new Corolla.
It's probably the safest bet for them, or at least it was.
Give them something to compare against a '68 Chevy or Ford in the
Toyota group.
Maybe I'll get one myself so I can bitch by comparing it to my ma's
old '55 Belvidere flathead with the blown head gasket.
Yeah, that's the ticket.
--Vic
Gosi
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:31:32 -0400, "C. E. White"
>
>
>
>
> >"Vic Smith" <thismailautodele...@comcast.net> wrote in message
They have great dealers and mechanics in Cuba
http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/cuba_is_a_museum_of_antique_american_cars/
"Cuba’s Ministry of Interior reported in 2003 that 31,760 pre-1959
American passenger cars were registered, down sharply from the 37,680
vintage cars registered in 2001. The total of passengers cars was
about 192,000, he said.
About half of the old American vehicles on Cuba’s streets are from the
1950s, with Chevrolets more numerous than any other make. Another 25
percent are from the 1940s, with the remainder from the 1930s. "
Vic Smith
wrote:
>
>They have great dealers and mechanics in Cuba
>
>http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/cuba_is_a_museum_of_antique_american_cars/
>
>"Cuba’s Ministry of Interior reported in 2003 that 31,760 pre-1959
>American passenger cars were registered, down sharply from the 37,680
>vintage cars registered in 2001. The total of passengers cars was
>about 192,000, he said.
>
>About half of the old American vehicles on Cuba’s streets are from the
>1950s, with Chevrolets more numerous than any other make. Another 25
>percent are from the 1940s, with the remainder from the 1930s. "
Usually when you see a photo of a Cuban street scene there's a '57
Chevy in it somewhere.
I think they have some good machinists and body guys there too.
Don't know how they'd get the parts otherwise.
I'd like to pop the hood on one and see a real 283.
For all we know there's a hamster cage under the hood.
--Vic
Mike Marlow
>
> Are the cars better today than in 1970? Of course. It would be hard to
> be worse. But from a reliability view they still suck compared to many
> foreign brands. Good example? You can't keep main bearing seals on the GM
> 3.8 and above V-6. Any time the engine passes 6k rpm the seals are likely
> to go. GM has never been able to build an efficient a/c system.
What in the hell are you talking about? Where do you get this stuff from?
>
> How can I say this? Go into a Buick dealership. See the 70 year old
> salesmen.
It's clear that your intent here is to simply make yourself look foolish
with meaningless statements. Oh well - your choice.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
Mike Marlow
>
> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlo...@alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:5ba58$48e03b80$62107b6e$19...@ALLTEL.NET...
>
>
>> Look back through this thread and see how many posters have hurled
>> acclaim at the Honda's of the 70's which were really pure junk.
>
> See - here we go again. IF you NEED to call the Honda junk to feel good
> about your American car HAVE AT IT. Remember the CVCC? That was a Honda.
>
You really lack the skills to carry on a conversation don't you? I did not
call the current generation of Japanese cars junk. You may not have been
around in the 70's but I was and those Hondas were pure junk. Sorry - hate
to burst your bubble. They were every bit as bad as the worst of the cars
of that era that you take such delight in bashing. Yeah - the CVCC was a
great engine idea. The rest of the car was pure junk though. So - after a
short time you had a wonderful design concept sitting upon a pile of rust in
your garage.
>> Likewise Toyota (except > for a model or two here and there) and Datusn
>> (likewise, except for a model here and there). They were major rust
>> buckets that didn't go 1/2 the mileage of even a Vega (which was not at
>> all known for it's body integrity), and certainly earned their reputation
>> at the time for being pure junk. He was not talking about the Honda of
>> today - he was taking in context, and in reply to a portion of this
>> thread that was making reference to the cars of the 70's.
>
>
> Okay okay you sold me the VEGA was the best car ever built. MUCH
> better than the Rolls Royce. Honda certainly can't build a good Car. CHEVY
> RULES!
> The Vette is the FASTEST car EVER built! MUCH faster than the Maseratti
> and Lamborghini or Ferarri.
You really shouldn't post. You just make yourself look more foolish with
each effort.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
Mike Marlow
Ok - let's look at this... you state "On my Galaxie 500...", then you list a
litany of issues (which are quite unique to you). Then you come back with
"It was a FLEET!". Don't look now, but your knickers are showing...
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
Mike Marlow
"C. E. White" <cewh...@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:48e0d8cb$1@kcnews01...
>
> I think he just made the whole thing up. The hoods on Galaxies were not
> attached any differently than the norm for the day (foreign or domestic).
> I could believe that the latch was improperly installed allowing the hood
> to unexpectedly fly up (and possibly off) one time. But after that, it is
> impossible to believe it happened again, unless the mechanic that
> reinstalled it was a complete idiot. So MAYBE the mechanic was a complete
> idiot and the hood flew up a second time. But four more times? He is
> either lying or incompetent. Take your pick. Likewise for the door. The
> hinges and door latches for a Galaxie were typical of the day (for call US
> and most imported cars). Maybe I could believe the factory did not
> properly tighten the bolds, but loose bolts would show up as a "loose"
> door long before the door would just fall off. And then the idea the car
> caught fire 6 times - once is usually enough to total a car. It is not bad
> mojo, it is bad honesty at work here.
>
I suspect this guy is some backyard hack who boogers things up with bailing
wire and snot, or he's just plain full of crap.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
krp
Too bad it is true.
krp
>>> When the Honda civic first came out a co-worker bought one. When he
>>> drove us to lunch in the summer it was like a sweat box and that was
>>> with the AC on high and the car could barely get out of it's own way.
>>> He got rid of it after a few years and bought one of the GM Personal
>>> Luxury cars that were popular back then. He was SO much happier with
>>> his GM.
>>
>> All the Japanese cars into the mid 80's had rotary compressors on them.
>> They were poor at best. The first Japanese cars in America were TERRIBLE,
>> like the first Korean cars. A 1962 Honda is NOT a 2008 Honda! BUT if you
>> NEED to make that comparison to feel good about your New American car,
>> that's okay too.
>
> Yet you constantly bash American car citing your exeriences (most likey
> BS) with American cars built 38 years ago.....
Do you believe that I am the only one bashing American cars? WHY do you
think GM is near bankruptcy??? Because there are SO GOOD?????
JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/080702GMBankruptcyFears.aspx
General Motors (GM, news, msgs) shares slumped below $10 today -- a level
not seen since September 1954 -- after an analyst suggested that slumping
sales may force the automaker to seek bankruptcy protection.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-plan-stokes-bankruptcy-fears-wagoner-under-fire.html
GM's decision to offer early retirement to 113,000 workers left many in the
nation's capital wondering whether their worst fears might come true -
bankruptcy General Motors. "We are watching this very closely," said a
Senate Finance Committee staff member. "It is one of our big concerns."
Because Chevy is the BEST CAR EVER ON THE ROAD?????
http://www.dancewithshadows.com/auto/gm-bankruptcy.asp
"Fears of a General Motors (GM) bankruptcy turned more real than ever last
week, when GM had to step in to broker talks between Delphi and the United
Auto Workers. GM, which is itself teetering on the edge of a bankruptcy
precipice, found itself having to bankroll the bankrupt Delphi, the largest
auto parts supplier to GM. A labour strike at Delphi would cut off supplies
to GM, and trigger a collapse of the crumbling American auto giant."
Live in your delusional world that Chevy is the NEST car by far to ever
be on rubber! Keep telling yourself that the Japanese and European cars are
SHIT by comparison. Keep ignoring the problem and you will soon find there
will be as many American built cars as there are American built TV sets.
krp
"Vic Smith" <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4ff1e497cifq5aqkh...@4ax.com...
>
>>> Granted my experience was at the end of the 60's and early 70's. On
>>> my Galaxie 500, the doors fell off twice. The hood flew off 6 times,
>>> and the car started on fire on the freeway 6 times. Mine was one of
>>> the BETTER ones. Water pumps went out with amazing regularity as did
>>> power steering units, the electrical system was a nightmare.
>>
>>This smacks of made up bullshit. My parents owned a 1969 Country
>>Sedan (Galaxie Station Wagon) and a 1972 Country Squire (this one got
>>the plastic wood grain). I was 16 when they got the 1969 and I drove
>>crap out of it. It was almost indestructible. I say almost because I
>>pulled out in front of a 1967 Galaxie (bad intersection, sun in my
>>eyes) and got hit in the rear corner. We drove the car to the
>>dealership to trade it in but it was in bad shape (frame bent). I grew
>>up around people who owned Fords (small town, one Ford Dealer, One
>>Chevy Dealer, one Chrysler dealer) and mostly everyone drove one of
>>the big three cars. I never remember anyone having a door fall off a
>>Ford, or a hood fly up much less "off." . There is no way you had all
>>those things happen to one car, probably not even a fleet of cars.
> Here's what I really want to know, Ed.
> Since auto groups are seeing these posts, I think it's a good
> question.
> What kind of automotive judgement should one expect from somebody who
> admits he owned, and apparently paid for a car whose hood flew off 6
> times. caught fire 6 times, and doors fell off twice?
Better than an IDIOT who failed to read that it was a FLEET of cars
owned by the COMPANY I was working for at the time.
> Would you trust this person's judgement about cars?
Less so than somebody who doesn't know what a "FLEET" is!!!
> I certainly don't. This guy's got really bad car mojo. Just my opinion.
Sorry in cars I bought I have had good luck. In 1968 I bought an AMX and
sold it 18 months later for more than I paid for it. Raced it quite
successfully against Chevys and Fords. Bought a 70 Javelin. Loved that car
too. Those were cars I owned. Not FLEET CARS. Look up the word FLEET and see
if you can understand the meaning. If the problem persists I can post the
definition for you. Since then I have had several Chrysler products all of
which were trouble free.
The car I traded on the Honda was a Chrysler 300 C. Never had any mechanical
problems. Didn't much like the radio. But aside from that the car ran
perfectly. When I had my Town and Country I used to give my friend who had a
Ford minivan a ride most weeks since his van always seemed to break. He
finally bought a Dodge van.
krp
>> See - here we go again. IF you NEED to call the Honda junk to feel
>> good about your American car HAVE AT IT. Remember the CVCC? That was a
>> Honda.
>
> And that engine system was CRAP. If you are citting the CVCC engine as
> evidence of Honda "goodness" then you are making my case for me. If it was
> so great, why did they quit using the system? Hondas in the early 70's
> were small, and got great gas mileage. They also broke often and runsted
> away, even here in NC. I can't imagine what they must have been like in
> the northeast or midwest.
Okay CHEVY builds the BEST (BY FAR) cars in the world! The Honda is PURE
SHIT and/ not up to the QUALITY if the Chevrolet!
CHEVY RULES!!!!
C. E. White
From: " krp" <kr...@verizon.net>
Newsgroups: alt.autos,alt.autos.gm,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.misc
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: Largest Chevrolet Dealer Group CLosing Doors WHAT'S A
FLEET?????
.......
> Better than an IDIOT who failed to read that it was a FLEET of cars
> owned by the COMPANY I was working for at the time.
That is not what you said. You said - "Granted my experience was at
the end of the 60's and early 70's. On my Galaxie 500, the doors fell
off twice. The hood flew off 6 times, and the car started on fire on
the freeway 6 times. Mine was one of the BETTER ones."
You said "MY Galaxie 500" and "MINE was one of the BETTER ones. "
So how many cars were in the fleet, and do you have comparison to
Hondas from the same period? Were you in charge of the "fleet" or are
you just making this crap up on the fly? I am guessing you are just
exaggerating for effect.
Ed
krp
<adventuremyk> wrote in message
news:0uj1e4p838p6usvq2...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:05:44 GMT, " krp" <kr...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Granted my experience was at the end of the 60's and early 70's. On my
>>Galaxie 500, the doors fell off twice. The hood flew off 6 times, and the
>>car started on fire on the freeway 6 times. Mine was one of the BETTER
>>ones.
>>Water pumps went out with amazing regularity as did power steering units,
>>the electrical system was a nightmare.
>
> Call it common sense but I'm going to have to sit back and call BS on
> this one. If you had doors fall off, nevermind twice, you have a
> serious problem.
What part of the word "FLEET" can your brain just NOT process????? We had
something like 3500 of the Fords. WHY is it you can't seen to get that?
krp
> Maybe, but I give him the benefit of the doubt. More fun.
> Most of the guys spouting this kind of stuff are really clueless about
> cars. Like Honda Indy engines mean anything to Joe six-pack.
Maybe not. But since you believe that Chevrolet is the BEST CAR IN THE
WORLD - why aren't they using Chevy engines any more???? After all, they are
MUCH better than that SHIT Japanese stuff, right?
krp
"Gosi" <gos...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d2e1a954-811a-4401...@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
They have great dealers and mechanics in Cuba
http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/cuba_is_a_museum_of_antique_american_cars/
"Cuba’s Ministry of Interior reported in 2003 that 31,760 pre-1959
American passenger cars were registered, down sharply from the 37,680
vintage cars registered in 2001. The total of passengers cars was
about 192,000, he said.
About half of the old American vehicles on Cuba’s streets are from the
1950s, with Chevrolets more numerous than any other make. Another 25
percent are from the 1940s, with the remainder from the 1930s. "
=============
Wrong subject and wrong guy to throw this at. First of all I have been to
Cuba a bunch of times. Secondly I got married there a few years back.
Thirdly MOST of those 50+ year old American cars no longer have American
engines in them. Bad subject to try to debate with me. I've actually been
there.
krp
Most of them are running on diesel engines taken out of Russian built cars.
krp
>> Are the cars better today than in 1970? Of course. It would be hard to
>> be worse. But from a reliability view they still suck compared to many
>> foreign brands. Good example? You can't keep main bearing seals on the GM
>> 3.8 and above V-6. Any time the engine passes 6k rpm the seals are likely
>> to go. GM has never been able to build an efficient a/c system.
> What in the hell are you talking about? Where do you get this stuff from?
From knowing the cars and the engine. The 4.3 litre V-6 was particularly
a problem with main seals.That persisted through the 80's into the 90's.
>> How can I say this? Go into a Buick dealership. See the 70 year old
>> salesmen.
>
> It's clear that your intent here is to simply make yourself look foolish
> with meaningless statements. Oh well - your choice.
Yes Buick is HUGE with Teen drivers! I understand.