CV joint or inner tie rod noise?
PT
back, I started to notice a little clicking noise whenever I let go the gas
pedal to coast to a stop, especially when I am making a right turn. I
though the CV joint gone bad; but uppon inspection , I found no tear in the
CV boots on both side. I brought it to the dealer to have it check out,
their mechanic at first did not heard the noise, but after when out to test
drive with me the guy did notice it. After putting the truck on some
platform to test it, they told me the inner tie rods need to be replaced and
the steering linkage need to be tighten up.
My question is could it be the the inner tie rood would cause the somewhat
constant clicking noise? It get worse with hot days.
Thanks.
NoBodyInParticular
start there.
TomRabil
rod click on deceleration alone?
There are no "inner" tie rods. Usually bad tie rod joints produce clunks over
bumps, which may be worse if steering over the bump.
Metsfan4life
of a 4 wheel drive vehicle while in 2 wheel drive are'nt producing any drive
power so deceleration should have no effect. i can't tell you what this
noise might be but just helping you wade through this bad advice
"TomRabil" <tomr...@aol.comjunkless> wrote in message
news:20020731192548...@mb-ca.aol.com...
Backyard Mechanic
"TomRabil" <tomr...@aol.comjunkless> wrote
> There are no "inner" tie rods. Usually bad tie rod joints produce clunks
over
> bumps, which may be worse if steering over the bump.
Tom..Have you ever actually WORKED ON a rack? There certainly ARE, How do
you think that rod pivots?
Otherwise, you are right... though you can usually feel a bad tie rod on a
rough freeway.. in the steering wheel.
DONT think that's his problem though
PT
a bad CV joint eventhough there were no tear in the boots. Just a thought,
could it be any of the bearings (wheel, CV shaft, etc)?
PT.
"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfo...@coolmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d4929d3$0$3567$272e...@news.execpc.com...
PT
"NoBodyInParticular" <go...@goofball.net> wrote in message
news:3D4870E...@goofball.net...
NoBodyInParticular
bearings in the cups have failed.
TomRabil
>you think that rod pivots?
Yes, I have. I won't claim to know every possible variant of steering systems,
but most production ones are the same. I also knew some armchair flamers would
act up.
There are tie rods, and there are tie rod ends. If you want to call one
"inner" and the other "outer", be my guest.
Thomas H. Moats
steering movement. Remember, with front wheel drive the torque on the
steering wheels change with torque from the engine. Think about it.
"TomRabil" <tomr...@aol.comjunkless> wrote in message
news:20020731192548...@mb-ca.aol.com...
Brainbite
counter-torque. It's provided by the driver and prevents steering
movement. No steering movement = no opportunity for noises from
steering gear.
Leaving the semantics battle to geeks with nothing better to do, let's
focus on his original symptoms: clicking upon deceleration,
especially while turning. What is there in a tie-rod swivel joint
(yes, the inner one), or a tie-rod-end ball joint, that can cause a
continuous clicking in this scenario? If you can think of something,
let us know, otherwise I'm calling BS on the dealer's diagnosis. CV
joints click when they're bad, especially when turning. As we said in
the reactor world, "Believe your indications."
Tom
"Thomas H. Moats" <tmo...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Nom29.58780$cm.19...@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...
Thomas H. Moats
the inner tie rod is a ball socket. But being that this is not a FWD vehicle
torque steer is not part of the equation unless this person is always in 4
wheel drive. I only mentioned FWD as an example. Just because the driver
"prevents" steering movement, i.e. turning against torque steer does not
mean no steering movement, by a very long shot.
"Brainbite" <hirn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:e299ccda.02080...@posting.google.com...
TomRabil
steering rack is not moving (once the driver has countered the torque
reaction), thus no tie-rod noise.
Let's not battle semantics, because I know you know cars. I still want to know
what could possibly cause a continuous clicking in any of the tie-rod parts.
Thomas H. Moats
moving, but the wheel/tire is in contact with the road. Think about it. The
rack or gear may be "centered" but the movement of the vehicle and force of
the road will cause the wheel to move. Slight bumps, sudden speed change,
change of direction, change of road crown all put forces on the tires which
the steering gear only works against, any play that is out of normal can
make noise. The point is you are leaving the out side forces of the road out
of the equation. I'm not battling semantics with you, you ask if inner tie
rods can make noise under the circumstances mentioned, yes. You may not like
or understand the answer, but life tends to be that way.
"TomRabil" <tomr...@aol.comjunkless> wrote in message
news:20020802201259...@mb-ce.aol.com...
TomRabil
steering gear only works against, any play that is out of normal can make noise
Changing the topic, I see. Yes, bumps will cause clunks or clacks in a linkage
with excessive play, but he didn't have those symptoms.
>you ask if inner tie
>rods can make noise under the circumstances mentioned, yes. You may not like
>or understand the answer, but life tends to be that way.
Give it up. Some people want to believe that OJ is innocent, but the reality
is he did it. In some theoretical world of "if's and when's", with the right
defect in the tie-rod and the right combination of recurring vibrations at the
right frequency "could" make this noise. But, the truth here is you've never
come across any tie-rod that made a continuous clicking sound. Ball bearings
going roundy-roundy in swivel cages can make clicking sounds, and stationary
tie-rods don't.
Thomas H. Moats
"TomRabil" <tomr...@aol.comjunkless> wrote in message
> >Slight bumps, sudden speed change,
> >change of direction, change of road crown all put forces on the tires
which he
> steering gear only works against, any play that is out of normal can make
noise
> ..
>
> Changing the topic, I see. Yes, bumps will cause clunks or clacks in a
linkage
> with excessive play, but he didn't have those symptoms.
>
Read the original post, all those symptoms are there. Changing direction,
speed change he mentioned those.
"TomRabil" <tomr...@aol.comjunkless> wrote in message
news:20020731192548...@mb-ca.aol.com...
> From the way you describe it, it sounds like a bad CV joint. Why would a
tie
> rod click on deceleration alone?
> There are no "inner" tie rods. Usually bad tie rod joints produce clunks
over
> bumps, which may be worse if steering over the bump.
Remember the above? That is what I originally replied to. Several things are
wrong with your statements. "no "inner" tie rods" being the largest. I
pointed out that there are inner tie rods and are ball socket. I also
pointed out that they make noise. I also pointed out that noise to one
person is different to another. When a customer says there is a click,
clunk, grunt, I ignore the noise description based on the fact that the
operators description of a clunk is a click to another. I instead focused on
what is abnormal in regards to noise in diagnosis. If you noticed, I did not
use descriptions of noises, and only used the word noise. The fact is that
you nor I know what this persons noise is or type. So what can make noise
under the circumstances? A lot, inner tie rods, brake caliper hold down
fasteners, CV joints, wheel covers, wheel bearings, outer tie rods, front
drive shaft U joints the list can go on and on depending on what model the
person has. Hell, even a single rock stuck in the tread will make noise. I
never said that was his noise, only that inner tie rods can and do make
noise.
> >you ask if inner tie
> >rods can make noise under the circumstances mentioned, yes. You may not
like
> >or understand the answer, but life tends to be that way.
>
> Give it up. Some people want to believe that OJ is innocent, but the
reality
> is he did it. In some theoretical world of "if's and when's", with the
right
> defect in the tie-rod and the right combination of recurring vibrations at
the
> right frequency "could" make this noise. But, the truth here is you've
never
> come across any tie-rod that made a continuous clicking sound.
Subjective, you nor I know what true sound this vehicle is making. Where
does the original post make mention of a vibration? The truth is that inner
tie rods will make continuous noise.
> Ball bearings
> going roundy-roundy in swivel cages can make clicking sounds, and
stationary
> tie-rods don't.
>
On a moving vehicle tie rods are not stationary.
TomRabil
I see you never studied Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Depends on your frame
of reference.
Thomas H. Moats
"TomRabil" <tomr...@aol.comjunkless> wrote in message
TomRabil
moving or not. I know, you want to distort the issue with minute movements
from road imperfections etc., but we can ignore those.
I understand 100% what you're trying to say, but I don't buy it. It's just
like a previous discussion we had over oil pressure: yes, the oil pump "could"
be the source of low pressure, but 99% of the time it's not. Seems to me you
sang a different song then than your current one.
>Do you want to elaborate on that?
>"TomRabil" <tomr...@aol.comjunkless> wrote in message
>news:20020802235301...@mb-fh.aol.com...
Thomas H. Moats
stationary shows your very ignorant on what is going on with a moving
vehicle, that is why you do not "buy", I do not believe you truly
understand. There is no distortion, movement is movement. As to oil pumps
and low oil pressure, not sure where you got your quote, if it is a quote, I
do not believe I said that, but it is correct. Pumps are not generally the
cause of low oil pressure. I have been very stable in what I say, you are
most likely confusing me with some one else. I see that you can not justify
your statement about my not studying Einstein's theory, which in reality is
based and built on other peoples theories, expanded and is more than one
subject. You want to narrow it down as to which part of the theory applies.
"TomRabil" <tomr...@aol.comjunkless> wrote in message
TomRabil
of car knowledge, merely proves your own ignorance and pettiness. I think the
only thing that might lend credence to your belief that steering linkages
generally move around so much as to create a clicking is that Fords have
historically had some of the worst steering and suspension-related designs and
components in the industry. Thus, attacking a job by replacing tie-rods has
probably been a successful strategy for you. It doesn't necessarily solve the
customer's immediate complaint, but it brings improvement nonetheless.
(Just for clarification on the oil pump question: then you were reasonable,
and ignored the minor oil pump factors (e.g., wear) that could have some small
effects on oil pressure. Now you're being unreasonable, and assuming the
customer is too dumb to notice when the noises in his car are due to bumps
(which, Thomas, I do know cause significant steering linkage movement), so you
resort to a claim that minute road imperfections wil conspire with the tie-rod
to imitate a bad CV joint).
Thomas H. Moats
"TomRabil" <tomr...@aol.comjunkless> wrote in message
> Your misuse of the word "your", as well as your unwarranted assault on my
level
> of car knowledge, merely proves your own ignorance and pettiness. I think
the
> only thing that might lend credence to your belief that steering linkages
> generally move around so much as to create a clicking is that Fords have
> historically had some of the worst steering and suspension-related designs
and
> components in the industry.
Interesting, sounds biased, is untrue, but interesting.
> Thus, attacking a job by replacing tie-rods has
> probably been a successful strategy for you.
No, I diagnoses and replace the offending parts, could be inner tie rods,
could be any of many suspension related parts. You ought to reread what I
said in the past.
> It doesn't necessarily solve the
> customer's immediate complaint, but it brings improvement nonetheless.
> (Just for clarification on the oil pump question: then you were
reasonable,
> and ignored the minor oil pump factors (e.g., wear) that could have some
small
> effects on oil pressure. Now you're being unreasonable, and assuming the
> customer is too dumb to notice when the noises in his car are due to bumps
Never implied that. I implied that one noise to one person is different to
another, quite a different thing. As an example, the driver of one of our
brush trucks complains about a noise and that the rear of the truck changes
lanes. The truck has made the normal rounds of going from one technician to
another, all tearing into the rear differential. All those technicians found
is nothing.So they sent the driver on his way. This complaint has gone on
for two years. During the yearly annual for this truck that I was performing
the driver told me all about his ordeal. As part of my usual inspection, I
drive the vehicle an average of ten miles. I found the transmission shift
pressure too high, so I lowered it. That fixed the problem, quite a long way
from the differential is it not? Now why or how does the transmission cause
problems or suspected problem with the differential?
> (which, Thomas, I do know cause significant steering linkage movement), so
you
> resort to a claim that minute road imperfections wil conspire with the
tie-rod
> to imitate a bad CV joint).
Again never implied that. I merely stated that inner tie rods do make noise
while vehicle is in motion. Where did I state that tie rods imitate CV
related failures? Is that part of Einstein's theory?
Thomas H. Moats
"TomRabil" <tomr...@aol.comjunkless> wrote in message
> (Just for clarification on the oil pump question: then you were
reasonable,
> and ignored the minor oil pump factors (e.g., wear) that could have some
small
> effects on oil pressure.
You do not work with pumps do you?
Metsfan4life
bad enough for me to read through your pissing contest for the past 5
minutes. imagine if i had the problem with my vehicle i would have thrown
the computer out of the window....By the way to whichever Tom it was, The
manufacturer and all after market makers refer to "inner tie rods"....news:B%Y29.58697$eG2.1...@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
Thomas H. Moats
bad, why did you read?
"Metsfan4life" <gcra...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:v1%29.76218$A35.13...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TomRabil
>manufacturer and all after market makers refer to "inner tie rods"....
You're right. I admitted defeat in the battle of semantics, and I shouldn't
have made a deal out of it in the first place.
The "outer" tie-rods, however, are really tie-rod ends, being two-piece only to
allow for adjustment of toe-in. Some tie-rods (e.g. Volkswagen passenger side)
are one-piece, as toe-in adjustment is done on the other side only.
Thomas H. Moats
the other attached to the ( rack, drag link, center link ) and called inner
because of it's location. There is nothing wrong with calling them ends,
both mean the same thing. Calling the inners or outers is for identifying
purpose. Parts books will in fact call them by both terms. It is common for
import vehicles to have only one adjustable tie rod assembly in the rear, in
most of those cases there is an adjustable one available at the parts
counter, so that the toe can be adjusted on both sides. Something that
pisses off customers because it drives up the cost of a 4 wheel alignment.
"TomRabil" <tomr...@aol.comjunkless> wrote in message
TomRabil
1. The Freeplay Frenzy of the 60's Fords (Fairlanes, Mustangs)
2. The Shake, Rattle and Rollover of the twin-I-beam wonder, the Explorer
3. The Windstar (tie-rods, swaybar links and subframe mounting pad welds)
Thomas H. Moats
"TomRabil" <tomr...@aol.comjunkless> wrote in message
> I agree that it's untrue if we ignore:
> 1. The Freeplay Frenzy of the 60's Fords (Fairlanes, Mustangs)
I don't know of a 60's vintage vehicle that did not have a lot of front end
slop. Some worse than others, some better.
> 2. The Shake, Rattle and Rollover of the twin-I-beam wonder, the Explorer
That suspension was around a long time before the Explorer, and was used on
a number of vehicle lines. F and E series, Bronco II and Ranger. That was
certainly not the cause of the rollovers. Jeeps used to be called puppies by
WWII vets, know why? You are ignoring the real unpopular or politically
incorrect reason vehicles of that type rollover.
> 3. The Windstar (tie-rods, swaybar links and subframe mounting pad welds)
I've worked on a lot of other makes that have had the same amount of and
type of problems. Plus if you look, you will find that the basic design used
on the Windstar, Taurus, Sable is very much like those on competing vehicles
of different makes. I'll agree that some of the components did not last as
long as one would hope, but the design is at least on par with other
vehicles.
TomRabil
>
>I don't know of a 60's vintage vehicle that did not have a lot of front end
>slop. Some worse than others, some better.
My Buick GS never developed a freeplay problem (other than wheel bearings
needing adjustment). I've never driven a sloppy steering Mercedes of that era,
and the Beetles I've driven generally responded to driver input. My friend's
'64 vette is fine, but his '67 Chevelle could use some tightening up. I agree
with"some better, some worse", but the Fords were truly on the "some worse"
side.
>> 2. The Shake, Rattle and Rollover of the twin-I-beam wonder, the Explorer
>
>That suspension was around a long time before the Explorer, and was used on
>a number of vehicle lines. F and E series, Bronco II and Ranger. That was
>certainly not the cause of the rollovers. Jeeps used to be called puppies by
>WWII vets, know why? You are ignoring the real unpopular or politically
>incorrect reason vehicles of that type rollover.
You mean an unsafely high COG? Ford recognized that and lowered the 2002 by
7". No idea on the Jeep - because they liked to roll over on their backs?