sell-out of Focus 2000?
Dave Gower
built this week (I was told the same thing a month ago) and delivered first
of May (possibly). That would make it 13 weeks, if it arrives then. At last
they were decent enough to offer an apology. They say the basic problem was
Ford's shortage of base-model radios, but admitted they should have asked me
earlier about an upgrade to speed things up.
Anyway I was chatting the sales manager and a salesman about Focus sales
rates and they suggested that the model year 2000 may be close to being sold
out. In other words anyone who has not ordered yet might be advised to wait
until orders are being taken on 2001 models, which may be in a couple of
months. For our U.S. friends, that's when 5-speed wagons start being
available.
lefeue...@my-deja.com
i was planning on ordering this week....what would be the advantage of
ordering a year 2001 model.... whats the diffrence? how long before 2000
ordering becomes 2001?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Chuck Filipiak
adv...@home.com wrote on 4/17/00 9:35 PM:
>> Anyway I was chatting the sales manager and a salesman about Focus sales
>> rates and they suggested that the model year 2000 may be close to being
> sold
>> out. In other words anyone who has not ordered yet might be advised to
> wait
>> until orders are being taken on 2001 models, which may be in a couple of
>> months. For our U.S. friends, that's when 5-speed wagons start being
>> available.
>>
>>
>
> i was planning on ordering this week....what would be the advantage of
> ordering a year 2001 model.... whats the diffrence? how long before 2000
> ordering becomes 2001?
NO, NO, NO! They are not running out, nor are they near the end of
production, which usually ends about the 2nd or 3rd week in July. Ordering
will end about the second week of May for this year.
Feature, color, and mechanical changes are not yet announced by Ford.
Judy Cacciaglia
In article <CCKK4.6325$9o.11...@news.magma.ca>,
"Dave Gower" <dav...@magma.ca> wrote:
> Dropped in at my dealership to check on my NeverFocus. They say it's being
> built this week (I was told the same thing a month ago) and delivered
first
> of May (possibly). That would make it 13 weeks, if it arrives then. At
last
> they were decent enough to offer an apology. They say the basic problem
was
> Ford's shortage of base-model radios, but admitted they should have asked
me
> earlier about an upgrade to speed things up.
>
> Anyway I was chatting the sales manager and a salesman about Focus sales
> rates and they suggested that the model year 2000 may be close to being
sold
> out. In other words anyone who has not ordered yet might be advised to
wait
> until orders are being taken on 2001 models, which may be in a couple of
> months. For our U.S. friends, that's when 5-speed wagons start being
> available.
>
>
i was planning on ordering this week....what would be the advantage of
ordering a year 2001 model.... whats the diffrence? how long before 2000
ordering becomes 2001?
lefeue...@my-deja.com
Chuck Filipiak <chks...@toast.net> wrote:
> in article KRPK4.32257$h01.2...@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com, Judy Cacciaglia at
> adv...@home.com wrote on 4/17/00 9:35 PM:
>
> >> rates and they suggested that the model year 2000 may be close to being
> > sold
> >> out. In other words anyone who has not ordered yet might be advised to
> > wait
> >> until orders are being taken on 2001 models, which may be in a couple of
> >> months. For our U.S. friends, that's when 5-speed wagons start being
> >> available.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > i was planning on ordering this week....what would be the advantage of
> > ordering a year 2001 model.... whats the diffrence? how long before 2000
> > ordering becomes 2001?
>
> production, which usually ends about the 2nd or 3rd week in July. Ordering
> will end about the second week of May for this year.
> Feature, color, and mechanical changes are not yet announced by Ford.
>
>
so if i order at the end of may instead of now what do you think the 2001
model will have? (i know you probably don't know)
Chuck Filipiak
lefeue...@my-deja.com wrote on 4/18/00 5:16 AM:
> so if i order at the end of may instead of now what do you think the 2001
> model will have? (i know you probably don't know)
I would imagine (just GUESSING and really, really hoping about these) Ford
will offer 5speed on the wagon, a larger selection of radios (maybe the
6-disk-in-dash radio from the SportTrac!) traction control with the ABS,
maybe heated exterior mirrors. I wouldn't be surprised if a chameleon paint
were to be offered on the ZX3, and perhaps a third, more powerful powerplant
with late availability.
I'd really like to see the power pedals option expanded to the ZX3, I'd like
to see the reverse sensing system (for the wagon, anyway), and it would be
neat if they could work out a way to have 2 bucket seats in the back of the
4 door sedan! This might be a pipe-dream, though...
Anyone else have some ideas for the 2001? Maybe we can package this
wish-list with the additions of all our other contributors and answer
people, and send it to Ford. They really do listen! (How about it Rock?
"C"? all the rest of you? let's give them a great list, and I'll make sure
it gets to the right folks, and the responses get back to you all!)
Marvin Ranaldson
fatter Rubber so that the tires fit in the wheel wells better (like VW)
5 door hatch
better fuel economy + more power
a redline!
GPS navigation
one more 12 volt outlet
Chuck Filipiak
chris...@operamail.c.o.m. wrote on 4/18/00 11:36 PM:
> power pedals?? Whuzzat?
Power pedals were first offered last year on the Expedition. It is a system
to allow the brake and accelerator to be moved closer to the driver, about 2
1/2 inches, and about an inch vertically, so shorter statured drivers can
reach them without having their navels against the airbag.
This year, they're in the Taurus, Windstar, and Explorer, I think. Next
year will see them in the Excursion.
lefeue...@my-deja.com
Rock!
Gee just because I way-way out here in the middle of the Pacific I get
ignored... well that happens anyways so here is my list for you Chuck;
Rear Disc Brakes on the ZTS and/or ZX/3
CD Changer Option
Sunroof/Moonroof
2002 Dreams;
SVT, Focus-R or S/R versions (Turbo 170-220HP Zetec)
Slide in a V-6... Do I hear a 2.5L Duratec?
AWD
2 Door Sedan (as seen in the UK Auto Shows)
Convertible or should I say "SPYDER"
2003 Dreams;
Hybrid Focus (Gas/Electric)
Can Ford say "Tiptronic" Auto Trans (As in the Lincoln LS)
Chuck Filipiak wrote:
> Anyone else have some ideas for the 2001? Maybe we can package this
> wish-list with the additions of all our other contributors and answer
> people, and send it to Ford. They really do listen! (How about it Rock?
> "C"? all the rest of you? let's give them a great list, and I'll make sure
> it gets to the right folks, and the responses get back to you all!)
--
Mahalo, \*.***|***.*/
Rock! \*.**|**.*/
\*.*|*.*/
Visit my Home Page \*.|.*/
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/rocksworld
\|/
Fast Mail to - -(+)- -
mailto:rocks...@hawaii.rr.com
=====================================
Neeroo
- a real 60/40 split rear seat
- adjustable pedals
- some choice in wheels
- most of all, the 5 door ZX3 (ZX5?) - might be dreaming here
Dave Gower
Chuck Filipiak <chks...@toast.net> wrote in message
news:B52258DE.BAE4%chks...@toast.net...
> Anyone else have some ideas for the 2001?
OK I'll go the other way and offer some ideas for useful or "niche" versions
a) panel delivery wagon with real load floor and folding front passenger's
seatback (why hand this market to the Chrysler PT?)
b) super-economy version (low-power engine, economy gearing) for members of
the Sierra Club. This is until a hybrid cam be introduced in a couple of
years
c) a radio-delete option for those who want to spec their own sound system
d) bring back Ford's air flow-through technology they introduced on
Fairmonts about 15 years ago for those of us who live in areas where
air-conditioning is not really necessary (anyone else remember this?), It
works well on wagons.
Dave Gower
~C~ <mailto:chris...@operamail.c.o.m> wrote in message
news:md8rfscjucvt4fe8p...@4ax.com...
> They should make one that'll do wheelies, too! <g>
Well I suppose the day is coming when someone will put a Focus body on a
3000hp drag machine but I'd rather just have my wagon ;)
Timothy J. Lee
|I'd really like to see the power pedals option expanded to the ZX3, I'd like
|to see the reverse sensing system (for the wagon, anyway),
What's a "reverse sensing system"?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee timlee@
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. netcom.com
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
Timothy J. Lee
|b) super-economy version (low-power engine, economy gearing) for members of
|the Sierra Club. This is until a hybrid cam be introduced in a couple of
|years
A better way to do this is to bring over the direct injection
turbo diesel that Ford already offers in Europe. VW offers
such a thing that gets good comments in the VW newsgroup --
EPA ratings of 42/49 and 149 lb-ft of torque at 1900rpm.
Or maybe a hybrid engine like the Honda Insight and rumors of
the next generation Civic.
Walt Brand
standard, all models.
Split rear seat cushion, of course.. and while we're back there, a
completely removable rear seat (I assume that at the moment it's not
user-removable). My Rabbit's rear seat came out with the removal of two
clips. Then, as an accessory, an upholstered foam pad that covers the
cargo area and lets you sleep comfortably in the back.
A separately-hinged rear hatch window, as on the Taurus wagon.
..more later.
Walt Brand
In article <B52258DE.BAE4%chks...@toast.net>,
Chuck Filipiak <chks...@toast.net> wrote:
> Anyone else have some ideas for the 2001? Maybe we can package this
> wish-list with the additions of all our other contributors and answer
> people, and send it to Ford. They really do listen!
Walt Brand
important, how much $ does the customer pay?
Walt Brand
In article <B522CA64.BBB2%chks...@toast.net>,
Chuck Filipiak <chks...@toast.net> wrote:
> Power pedals were first offered last year on the Expedition. It is a
system
> to allow the brake and accelerator to be moved closer to the driver,
about 2
> 1/2 inches, and about an inch vertically, so shorter statured drivers
can
> reach them without having their navels against the airbag.
Walt Brand
"Dave Gower" <dav...@magma.ca> wrote:
> d) bring back Ford's air flow-through technology they introduced on
> Fairmonts about 15 years ago for those of us who live in areas where
> air-conditioning is not really necessary (anyone else remember this?),
It works well on wagons.
Dave, that's a great idea. Old cars used to have vents down by the
footwells, and at speed you got quite a bit of fresh air that way. I
assume the Fairmont had something like that. On a small car that
arrangement might be impractical, but a ventilation system that doesn't
require fan forcing would definitely be welcome.
Hmm..When VW changed from radial ventilation fans to the now-ubiquitous
squirrelcage fans ('76 to '77 Rabbit), the flow-through ventilation
stopped, but the fan's ability to move air quietly increased
severalfold. Maybe there's a tradeoff here..
Walt Brand
Timothy J. Lee
|On 19 Apr 2000 16:59:47 GMT, tim...@netcom.com.DELETE-THIS.INVALID
|(Timothy J. Lee) wrote:
|
|>Chuck Filipiak <chks...@toast.net> writes:
|>|I'd really like to see the power pedals option expanded to the ZX3, I'd like
|>|to see the reverse sensing system (for the wagon, anyway),
|>
|>What's a "reverse sensing system"?
|of a vehicle off of nearby objects, and sounds an alarm to the driver
|if they are too close . Sonar for cars!
Perhaps useful... but why the suggestion only for wagons? It is
easier to see where the back end of a wagon is than a sedan, so I
would think that if such a feature were added, the sedans would
offer it.
Developer
On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:05:46 -0700, ~C~ <chris...@operamail.c.o.m>
wrote:
Chuck Filipiak
wrote on 4/19/00 5:09 PM:
> Ah. But how much does the adjusting system weigh, and even more
> important, how much $ does the customer pay?
Weigh? No clue. Cost? About $165
Dave Gower
Walt Brand <heild...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8dlbh1$jnj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
,,,. Old cars used to have vents down by the
> footwells, and at speed you got quite a bit of fresh air that way. I
> assume the Fairmont had something like that. On a small car that
> arrangement might be impractical, but a ventilation system that doesn't
> require fan forcing would definitely be welcome.
As I recall the idea was to put vents around the rear pillars to draw air
out into the low pressure area. It works especially well on a wagon because
of the large rear surface. I remember a 1973 aircraft-carrier sized Biscayne
wagon I once had with a power-operated retracting rear window. When you
lowered it you got the most beautiful soft steady airflow through the
driver's window and out the back. No buffeting at all. A real alternative to
AC unless you're stuck in traffic.
Timothy J. Lee
|Anyone else have some ideas for the 2001? Maybe we can package this
|wish-list with the additions of all our other contributors and answer
|people, and send it to Ford. They really do listen!
Wagon options that would be interesting:
* Manual transmission.
* Split folding rear seat cushion to go with the split folding
rear seat back.
* Direct injection turbodiesel from Europe.
Also, for all models, safety upgrades like in Europe would be nice:
* Amber rear turn signal lights.
* Side turn signal behind the front fender so that someone beside
and slightly behind you (i.e. where it is most difficult to see
in your mirrors) can see you signalling.
* Rear seat head restraints.
Rock!
ran low 8.'s on a 1/4 mile to win the division and Esslinger Engineering has
a Zetec Engine that put out 400BHP before it lost it's cool, a couple of
mods here and there and they estimate they will be pushing between
500-600BHP. BTW this will be fitted into a custom tube frame ZX/3 with a
Carbon Fibre body
Dave Gower wrote:
--
Dave Gower
Timothy J. Lee <tim...@netcom.com.DELETE-THIS.INVALID> wrote
> Wagon options that would be interesting:
>
> * Manual transmission.
> * Split folding rear seat cushion to go with the split folding
> rear seat back.
> * Direct injection turbodiesel from Europe.
Actually, Ford has already announced the 5-spd wagon for the U.S. in '01, so
that's done. As to the diesel, the problem is that with U.S. fuel prices
drivers can't recover the extra purchase price unless hey drive a lot. Plus
diesels have special maintenance requirements. Before I decided to buy a
Focus, I also investigated the Golf TDI, and this is what I found. In Europe
with their much higher fuel prices things are different.
My favorite option to supplement the gas engine is not the diesel, but the
methane-powered fuel cell. In my opinion they're closer than you might
think, and they will be very pleasant to drive. Natural gas reserves are a
lot more plentiful than crude oil. Methane is even partly a renewable
resource, since it can be produced from organic waste. Plus cow-farts are
not owned by Middle Eastern shieks, so you don't have to fight wars to keep
the supply going.
Cheers
Dave Gower
Rock! <rocks...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:38FECE81...@hawaii.rr.com...
> ...the Wayne Saunder's Focus just
> ran low 8.'s on a 1/4 mile to win the division and Esslinger Engineering
has
> a Zetec Engine that put out 400BHP before it lost it's cool, a couple of
> mods here and there and they estimate they will be pushing between
> 500-600BHP. BTW this will be fitted into a custom tube frame ZX/3 with a
> Carbon Fibre body
Not putting the power through the front wheels, I presume? If they are
rear-drive, they're not really a Focus but just a home-build with a Focus
body. If front-drive, I'm glad I'm not buying the tires :)
noo...@cwcom.net
wrote:
The last Escort Cosworth wasn't really an Escort, it was actually a
Sierra Cosworth floor with an Escort body.
a m e~ + @hotmail.com Utensil
Timothy J. Lee <tim...@netcom.com.DELETE-THIS.INVALID> wrote in message
news:8dkp71$jis$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
> "Dave Gower" <dav...@magma.ca> writes:
> |b) super-economy version (low-power engine, economy gearing) for members
of
> |the Sierra Club. This is until a hybrid cam be introduced in a couple of
> |years
>
> A better way to do this is to bring over the direct injection
> turbo diesel that Ford already offers in Europe. VW offers
> such a thing that gets good comments in the VW newsgroup --
> EPA ratings of 42/49 and 149 lb-ft of torque at 1900rpm.
>
> Or maybe a hybrid engine like the Honda Insight and rumors of
> the next generation Civic.
>
Walt Brand
While we're dreaming, yes, the TDI Diesel engine would be very nice
indeed. There are still some North Americans who tried Diesels and liked
them, then watched in horror as Oldsmobile singlehandedly killed the
Diesel in the NA market in the early '80s.
Traction control, yes.
Adjustable pedals-- that sounds good too. Chuck F. says it doesn't cost
too much. People with serious bicycles are fanatics about making the
machine fit the operator. The tilt wheel should be standard.
And yes, availability in NA of the 4dr hatchback, assuming the extra
body holes wouldn't compromise body rigidity too much.
Or-- rear windows that roll down (or at least crank out) in the ZX3.
Driver's door that must be locked with a key, so you can never lock
yourself out unless you try hard.
ZX3 hatch that closes without locking (but can be locked with the key).
Fluorescent lamps for interior illumination. In a car with a dark
interior, you can never have too much light. Efficient lighting can be
used with the engine off (stopped for a family meal, say) without
draining the battery.
Did I mention the turbodiesel would be a nice idea? I did.
Walt Brand
"Dave Gower" <dav...@magma.ca> wrote:
> As to the diesel, the problem is that with U.S. fuel prices drivers
can't recover the extra purchase price unless they drive a lot.
We're assuming the newly-enlightened Ford Motor Co. we're envisioning in
this thread will do what VW did back in '77 and offer the Diesel at a
price that's only a small premium above the SI engine, as a kind of
good-for-you loss leader. Remember, the whole Escort was a loss leader.
Why not an engine?
But even if the Diesel costs, say, $500 more, some of us who like to
haul gobs of gear will go for the Diesel's ungodly low-rpm torque and
other, weirder advantages, like the ability to safely (and legally)
carry fuel onboard for those epic trips.. or the extra engine braking,
for driving in the mountains. And don't forget the thrill of filling up
at truck stops. People shouldn't expect a Diesel to pay for itself in
mpg savings alone; there are other considerations.
> Plus diesels have special maintenance requirements.
True. They don't require as much, but what they do require *is*
different. Canadians might be understandably reluctant to embrace an
engine which in some of its incarnations was a tough cold starter.
> In Europe with their much higher fuel prices things are different.
Agreed. I imagine that, in addition, the European TDI cars are geared
for max economy, which would be a prime consideration for Europeans. So
a TDI for NA would be different. But we're assuming an awful lot,
including proven longterm reliability of Ford's design.
Walt Brand
That's not bad. I assume it's an electric motor doing the moving.
Walt
Timothy J. Lee
|Chuck Filipiak <chks...@toast.net> writes:
||Anyone else have some ideas for the 2001? Maybe we can package this
||wish-list with the additions of all our other contributors and answer
||people, and send it to Ford. They really do listen!
|
|
|* Manual transmission.
|* Split folding rear seat cushion to go with the split folding
| rear seat back.
|* Direct injection turbodiesel from Europe.
|
|
|* Amber rear turn signal lights.
|* Side turn signal behind the front fender so that someone beside
| and slightly behind you (i.e. where it is most difficult to see
| in your mirrors) can see you signalling.
|* Rear seat head restraints.
More additions:
* Tachometer
* Don't make power windows mandatory
Chuck Filipiak
wrote on 4/20/00 5:22 PM:
>>> Ah. But how much does the adjusting system weigh, and even more
>>> important, how much $ does the customer pay?
>>
>> Weigh? No clue. Cost? About $165
>>
>
> That's not bad. I assume it's an electric motor doing the moving.
Yes, indeed. Two small buttons (in and out, of course), a few meters of
wire, a small electric motor, and the pivot on which they are mounted... a
fair guess? Likely not over 3 pounds.
Timothy J. Lee
|Diesels don't get as good emissions as gas engines.
Usually better HC, CO, and CO2, worse NO and particulates.
Chuck Filipiak
wrote on 4/20/00 4:55 PM:
> Driver's door that must be locked with a key, so you can never lock
> yourself out unless you try hard.
Or better yet, the system that is already in place on the Taurus and other
cars: locking the doors with the rocker power lock switch will not lock the
driver door if the key is in the ignition. A system as you describe it would
not be approved by most Americans... too demanding. Besides, that's what
Ford's free roadside assistance is for!
Timothy J. Lee
|in article 8dnubm$fpm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com, Walt Brand at heild...@my-deja.com
|wrote on 4/20/00 4:55 PM:
|
|> Driver's door that must be locked with a key, so you can never lock
|> yourself out unless you try hard.
|
|not be approved by most Americans... too demanding.
It didn't seem to prevent Honda from selling cars with this feature.
Fisherman
Everyone knows they build low emissions lawn mowers, Boat Motors, and
motorcycles.
They make cars too??
"Timothy J. Lee" <tim...@netcom.com.DELETE-THIS.INVALID> wrote in message
news:8du1nd$54q$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
Walt Brand
my '76 Rabbit. I always thought it was an elegant solution to an
embarrassing and potentially dangerous problem.
Making it part of a power-lock system is good. Making it part of plain
manual locks is good too. But maybe you're right about Americans.
They're a proud but forgetful people.
What the idea needs is endorsement by some celebrity..
The Rabbit also wouldn't let you kill your battery by leaving your
lights on. The lights died when you killed the ignition. Anyone else
pick up that idea in the intervening decades?
Easter greetings to y'all.
Walt Brand
Chuck Filipiak
wrote on 4/23/00 4:04 PM:
> The Rabbit also wouldn't let you kill your battery by leaving your
> lights on. The lights died when you killed the ignition. Anyone else
> pick up that idea in the intervening decades?
Hmmm, as a matter of fact, yes. My FOCUS does this; the headlites go off,
just the parking and tail lites stay on.
Fact of the matter is I can remember several times when I needed the
lights ON after turning the car off, and appreciating the fact that they
could be so. Ford has attacked the problem two ways: with the
Electrochromic Mirror, there is a delay switch so you can set how long you
want the lights on after turn off of the engine... up to 5 minutes, I think.
The other way is with the battery protection system on most cars and
trucks. After 20 minutes, the car shuts off any electrical item operating
(except the radio in the Focus), such as if the door were left incompletely
closed and the dome light was on.
Walt Brand
Chuck Filipiak <chks...@toast.net> wrote:
> Hmmm, as a matter of fact, yes. My FOCUS does this; the headlites go
off, just the parking and tail lites stay on.
Yes! I *knew* I picked the right car! It just felt right. All it has to
do is get itself built (8 weeks and counting)..
> Fact of the matter is I can remember several times when I needed
the lights ON after turning the car off, and appreciating the fact that
they could be so.
Yep, even my '87 Taurus has a headlight delay thingie, but it only has
it as part of the automatic headlights-on function, which was an option
on highline Tauri. I'm saying a similar device should be made standard
equipment, with a manual override in case you need to have the
headlights on while the cars engine is stopped.
> Ford has attacked the problem two ways: with the Electrochromic
Mirror, there is a delay switch so you can set how long you want the
lights on after turn off of the engine...
I would never want to be attacked by an Electrochromic anything.
> The other way is with the battery protection system on most cars
and trucks.
Sounds like one o' them newfangly things they come up with since '87..
> After 20 minutes, the car shuts off any electrical item
operating (except the radio in the Focus), such as if the door were left
incompletely closed and the dome light was on.
This is where my advocacy of fluorescent lighting for the interior
(about 4 times as efficient) would make sense. If my family wanted to
eat burgers and read road maps during a nighttime pit stop, a
nice, bright dome light that could remain safely lit for say an hour
would be very handy.
LEDs have found their way into automobiledom; why not fluorescents? Just
a thought.
Chuck Filipiak
wrote on 4/24/00 5:14 PM:
> This is where my advocacy of fluorescent lighting for the interior
> (about 4 times as efficient) would make sense. If my family wanted to
> eat burgers and read road maps during a nighttime pit stop, a
> nice, bright dome light that could remain safely lit for say an hour
> would be very handy.
>
> LEDs have found their way into automobiledom; why not fluorescents? Just
> a thought.
I don't think so, Walt. Think about the necessary thinness of the glass
tube in such a light. Then think about the poisonous gasses inside, as well
as the powdered substance which gets into skin pores and needs serious
medical attention to get out, while meanwhile acting as extreme itch powder.
Then think about the last 10 train tracks you drove over. how about the
last 4 serious pot holes you hit.
Do you --REALLY-- want that in the same car with you?
Rock!
light within a car. Most bulbs are just as strong as regular incandescent
bulbs, HOWEVER since all bulbs within a car are sealed or enclosed within a
plastic housing, I don't think breakage would be a problem. The BIG problem is
their SIZE. I think the smallest fluorescent light I have seen is about 6" long,
considering most "dome lights" in cars are about 2"-3" in diameter, and that
includes the housing. The other problem is the COST. Even the smallest of the
fluorescent bulbs are around a couple of bucks or so (actually the smaller bulds
are probably more expensive), compared to the 12V 1" bulb that cost under a
buck, not to mention that the Automaker has to fit a small starter and voltage
coil to up the 12VDC to around 300VDC to light the bulb.
I would think if any automaker were to add fluorescent light it would be in a
mini-van first.
Chuck Filipiak wrote:
> I don't think so, Walt. Think about the necessary thinness of the glass
> tube in such a light. Then think about the poisonous gasses inside, as well
> as the powdered substance which gets into skin pores and needs serious
> medical attention to get out, while meanwhile acting as extreme itch powder.
> Then think about the last 10 train tracks you drove over. how about the
> last 4 serious pot holes you hit.
> Do you --REALLY-- want that in the same car with you?
--
Walt Brand
Chuck Filipiak <chks...@toast.net> wrote:
> I don't think so, Walt. Think about the necessary thinness of the
glass tube in such a light. Then think about the poisonous gasses
inside, as well as the powdered substance which gets into skin pores
and needs serious medical attention to get out, while meanwhile acting
as extreme itch powder.
> Then think about the last 10 train tracks you drove over. how about
the last 4 serious pot holes you hit.
> Do you --REALLY-- want that in the same car with you?
Goodness! Is this what the automakers say, or your opinion? It's
possible to rebut all these objections, but their vehemence surprises
me and I'd like to know where they come from.
Daniel Ross
<chks...@toast.net> wrote:
Another thing about flourescents: While they do need little
electricity once they get lit, they need a lot of initial current to
start up. This would be quite hard on the battery and would probably
reduce its life a little. Anyways, I absolutely hate flourescent
lights (I try to avoid their foul rays when possible.)
-Daniel.
Walt Brand
"Rock!" <rocks...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> Honestly, I don't think that safety would be an issue...
Agreed. For example, the design of an FL bulb doesn't require thin
glass. There are shatterproof bulbs with plastic coatings as well, but
that would be overkill in this application.
> The BIG problem is their SIZE. I think the smallest fluorescent light
I have seen is about 6" long, considering most "dome lights" in cars are
about 2"-3" in diameter,and that includes the housing.
The smallest FL lamp I ever saw, about an inch, is in the light hood of
an old LCD TV set I have. I have some Coleman mini lanterns with tubes
of about 4 inches. Some of the low-power CFL lamps (compact fluorescent)
have folded tubes and would very nicely, if snugly, in existing dome
fixtures-- but we're not talking about retrofitting, we're blue-skying.
I suspect we're dealing with deeply-entrenched hatred of fluorescent
lighting based on old magnetic-ballast, cool-white phosphor, 40-watt
technology which wouldn't work with a DC electrical system anyway. The
new stuff doesn't flicker, comes on instantly, and doesn't make things
look greenish.
> The other problem is the COST. Even the smallest of the fluorescent
bulbs are around a couple of bucks or so (actually the smaller bulbs are
probably more expensive), compared to the 12V 1" bulb that cost under a
buck, not to mention that the Automaker has to fit a small starter and
voltage coil to up the 12VDC to around 300VDC to light the bulb.
There would probably be some added cost, simply because incandescents
are so dead simple. But they're not very bright or efficient, and they
get so hot they can melt their holders, and they do burn out, and when
they do you have to get the replacements in an auto parts department and
the chance of getting the wrong size is shockingly high.
I only mention these things to point out that all is not peachykeen in
Incandescentville. The virtue of simplicity is not to be overlooked, but
as is the case with HID headlights (which are anything but simple!),
greater efficiency is desirable and the price may not be as high as we
might have first thought, given mass production and a little clever
design. This applies to any change, not just car lighting.
> I would think if any automaker were to add fluorescent light it would
be in a mini-van first.
A very good application, since their interiors resemble that of another
FL lamp application you're already familiar with, commercial airliners.
Fisherman
We have had these "new" types of FL on boats for awhile now, and they work
flawlessly in either 12 or 24 VDC applications. They come in various sizes
and shapes for different applications, and can be had in "true white" for
all purpose lighting, or "blue glow" for increased visibility of fishing
line. They are true fast start, flicker free and well worth the few dollars
extra than the standard light kits.>>>
I don't mean yachts, or cruiser's. I'm talking about your average parked in
the yard 14-19' fishing boat.
Fisherman
"Walt Brand" <heild...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8e537m$2dp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Chuck Filipiak
wrote on 4/25/00 6:16 AM:
> Goodness! Is this what the automakers say, or your opinion? It's
> possible to rebut all these objections, but their vehemence surprises
> me and I'd like to know where they come from.
That's my opinion. Where does it come from? 30 years of business management
in buildings 95% lighted with those lamps. Experiences with employees
getting cut with the glass, getting the powder on their skin, inhaling the
gas by accident. Experience with the Occupational Health and Safety
Administration requesting (demanding, or I lose the business license)
plastic tubing to enclose 100% all lamps in areas where people work, eat, or
exist.
Not just an opinion... experience!
Walt Brand
Chuck Filipiak <chks...@toast.net> wrote:
>
> That's my opinion. Where does it come from? 30 years of business
management
> in buildings 95% lighted with those lamps. Experiences with employees
> getting cut with the glass, getting the powder on their skin, inhaling
the gas by accident. Experience with the Occupational Health and Safety
> Administration requesting (demanding, or I lose the business license)
> plastic tubing to enclose 100% all lamps in areas where people work,
eat, or exist. Not just an opinion... experience!
I hear ya. But I'm still confused-- not unusual in itself, and we're
veering well off topic here, but I gotta know-- I've not had the honor
of managing where building safety was my responsibility, but I have
worked in these FL-lit buildings for at least that long and have never
come across the exploding tubes, the mercury-vapor poisoning,
madly-itching victims or marauding OSHA suits you mention. What was the
situation? Low-hanging, naked tubes? Rivet-gun fights among the
employees? or just maintenance crew not relamping with sufficient care?
By the way, gasoline's not too friendly either. It would be cruel at
this point to recall the Pinto. Just kidding.
Chuck Filipiak
wrote on 4/26/00 10:20 AM:
> I hear ya. But I'm still confused-- not unusual in itself, and we're
> veering well off topic here, but I gotta know-- I've not had the honor
> of managing where building safety was my responsibility, but I have
> worked in these FL-lit buildings for at least that long and have never
> come across the exploding tubes, the mercury-vapor poisoning,
> madly-itching victims or marauding OSHA suits you mention. What was the
> situation? Low-hanging, naked tubes? Rivet-gun fights among the
> employees? or just maintenance crew not relamping with sufficient care?
Low quality (due to availability) help in the retail food sales industry.
Kids tossing the tubes in the dumpster and watching too close. Unfortunate
use of broom handles without thought. OSHA is just plain nasty to national
chains; they use them as "examples", thinking of the so-called deep pockets
of the chain, I suppose.
>
> By the way, gasoline's not too friendly either. It would be cruel at
> this point to recall the Pinto. Just kidding.
Thanks! I needed a good laugh! I'm sure glad I wasn't selling the Pinto or
Fairmont....
Rock!
in the 70's Where do you think all the negative feelings about dealers and
salespeople came from?
CSI??? MSRP??? LEMON LAW??? What were those? And no one ever-EVER knew what
invoice was back then. "Here is your key, and don't forget to gas it up on the
way home..."
Chuck Filipiak wrote:
> Thanks! I needed a good laugh! I'm sure glad I wasn't selling the Pinto or
> Fairmont....
--