Ignition Module keeps burning out

[Stacy White]

My Fiero friends:

Any ideas why my ignition module keeps burning out? I have an 86 coup auto
w/ 2.5 and HEI ignition. The factory module was missing when I got the car.
Replaced it with Wells, Sorenson, even an Accel module, after long driving
at high RPM's (30-45 min @ 70-85 mph) it eventually gets so weak the car
won't crank (short low speed runs don't seem to affect it much). Clean the
white crusties out of the cap and it will crank a few more times, then
eventually it dies completely. I have not tried a factory Delco unit because
it is 90 bucks and the others are 25. Lifetime warranty is OK but I have to
keep a spare to drive to the parts place so I can replace the bad one. If
anyone may know what is causing this I will be eternally grateful!

joel

red 86 coupe 130K

[JazzMan]

Bad pickup coil in the distributor?
Lack of heat-sink grease on module?
Dirt/oil between module and distributor body?

JazzMan

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[Kakh0302]

I had a '86 Celebrity (2.5L) come into my shop with same symptoms. Found out it
was a (starting to) short ignition coil that drew so much current it overheated
the module, hense failure. The clue is the white crud inside the cap, obvious
high voltage residue mung...... Does this eat plugs as well??
Tom

[gw]

There's also a reason why the AC Delco part is $90.00. Not to schill (sp?)
for GM, but their factory parts - Ignition, brake pads, etc. seem to hold up
a hell of a lot better than aftermarket.

"Kakh0302" <kakh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011031010513...@mb-fm.aol.com...

[Tater]

Ed Parks insists on GM modules when he does a car. He recommends them to
anyone doing their own tuneups. That's good enough for me.

[Larry Beaulieu]

In article <3BE01BC5...@home.com>, Tater wrote:
> Ed Parks insists on GM modules when he does a car. He recommends them to
> anyone doing their own tuneups. That's good enough for me.

Troll around Pennocks archives and you'll find plenty of
horror stories about 3rd party ignition modules that
just don't hold up. Tater's got the right answer.

Just be sure to follow the instruction leaflet that
comes with the module especially the part about how
to properly apply the dielectric grease.

If you want to replace the ignition coil at the same time,
I've had good luck with MSD Blaster MSD-8226, it's a direct
drop-in for the stock coil, available at Summit Racing
http://www.summitracing.com

BTW anyone charging you $90 for a Delco ignition module
should be avoided like the plague. I paid about $50
for one at a local Delco-stocking reseller. Even with
shipping charges it's probably even less than that from
the site at http://www.gmpartsdirect.com

[Stacy White]

Thanks, guys. I was thinking I should get off my cheap a** and just get a
Delco part. The thing that sucks is that the Accel one was 40 bucks and it
still burned out, quicker than the Wells one. Geez. I have a new Delco coil,
so I hope that is not it. The plugs seem to last a good while, but I will
check them again.Probably time for a rebuild anyway, since I have this knock
that I can't isolate and can only be a wrist pin I think.

Again, thanks for the insight. I will post the results when I get some!

joel

[bobnkris]

make sure to use a lot of dielectric grease on the bottom of the module-its
that white stuff in the tube that you get in the box.what it does is
transfers heat so it doesnt roast,ive made the same mistake so dont feel
bad.
bob and kristine paula
85 gt
"Stacy White" <ilo...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:tqLD7.2287$bZ6....@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...

[John Craker]

In article <wXnE7.222183$K6.106853184@news2>, "bobnkris" <stoshn...@home.com> wrote:
>make sure to use a lot of dielectric grease on the bottom of the module-its
>that white stuff in the tube that you get in the box.what it does is
>transfers heat so it doesnt roast

And if you don't have any... go to any computer store and pick up some heat
sink compound for a CPU. Or scrape some off the bottom of the one you're
using now (j/k). :)

[Jack Finnigan]

The heat sink paste must cover the whole area of the module. Any misses and it
creates a hot spot, and a premature burnout. I have never bought a Delco for
the 90.00 people are taking about. If you have money to burn (no pun intended)
buy the Delco, otherwise get the $18.00 life time job. 90.00 and don't come
back is stupid, when there are so many alternatives. More than likely they
come from the very same manufacturer. If you can't apply the paste correctly,
it's a much better deal for the cheap one and they give you new ones till you
get it right. Sounds like a no brainer to me.

Jack

[gw]

So buy an obviously inferior part, and just keep breaking down? Yeah, that's
a real no-brainer. Costs more than $90 to get towed home. You go for those
"lifetime" $10 brake pads too?

"Jack Finnigan" <jackfi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011102010422...@mb-mg.aol.com...

[Tater]

He's a reprobate from the 50s. He don't know nuthin' about these modern
cars like ours. Don't pay any attention to him. He's a troublemaker. ;-)

Seriously though, I listen to him on a lot of stuff but if Ed Parks goes
the extra bucks for a Delco (because he doesn't want the car to come
back and haunt him, I'm sure), I'd go with him over Jack here. Ed
doesn't get any special breaks on parts from GM. I'm sure the markup is
far superior on auto store parts - and closer too.

[Dennis LaGrua]

The cause of the igniton module burning out is that aftermarket brands just
won't survive in the engine compartment environment of the Fiero. Use ONLY AC
Delco modules and you won't have a problem ever again, but when you replace it
be sure that the attachement screws are clean and that you apply the dieelectric
grease under the
module before you install it. You can buy the GM modules for under $50 from GP
Parts Direct.com or Car Parts.com.
Regards,
Dennis LaGrua
Neshanic, NJ
908 369-6983 home
908-625-3225 cell days
87 GT w. 3.4L Turbocharged engine
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm
thanks to Luke C. "fierojoe.com" for hosting

Stacy White wrote:

-

[Jack Finnigan]

I don't break down. Nope haven't found the $10.00 brake pads, I believe the
last time I did brakes I paid 14 or 16. I've got good braks and my car runs
like a top. When a mechanic used the Genuine Parts, he gets the best discount.
You pay 90.00 he pays 45 where as the 18.00 part he can only get's a 2.00
discount. Sheesh, I get caught up in this stuff, and I know better. Like I
said, I don't care what you blow your money on, but don't compalin about a
product when you have 8 thumbs and two missing fingers, and no common sense. I
wish I was selling you parts. Your a saleman's dream.

[Jack Finnigan]

I don't know Ed Parks and unfortunately he is not in this NG, Rodney Dickman
is though. Not to cut business from either one of them but they have to make
money on parts, they make as much if not more than mechanical servicing. This
wouldn't be the case with discount parts. Try bringing your Delco or MoPar
parts in to have a mechanic put them on. They may do it once, but never again.
Do you think it's because their GM part is better than yours? I work in that
cycle for sometime, saw the three price sheets on everything at that time. and
of course they will tell you the brand they use is the best, usually it's the
item they make the most money on. I have never see a module go bad
prematurely. Here is a hot item, batterys...Number of plates, size and amp
hours. Nothing more than that goes into a batter, they all used the same lead,
zink, and acid. Equiped the knowledge of what will fit is all you need. Read
the spec..they are all relitive to the amount of warrentee, other than a mishap
with shorted cell that could happen even to a DieHard 8-)

Well, all I have to say is if you use your common sense, don't put all your
trust in that mechanic to keep you a happy carefree motorist. He's in business
to make money on you. If you can't afford it, don't do it yourself and blame
everything but yourself for breakdown, with the redundent problems.

I'm done...I do buy quality product when quality is an issue. I don't march
to everyones drum beat. I use my own evaluation and results and way ahead of
the game. I've only had to be towed because of a break down. I been stuck a
few times but did repairs myself onsite. Not bad for 41 years of driving.

[Tater]

Bullshit. That's something I DO know. The markup on third party ignition
parts is/was 35-45% (yellow sheet/green sheet). The markup on OEM parts
is/was 25%. And the difference between third party modules and Delcos
isn't $80. More like $20. As far as warranties, buy a cheap water pump
but one that comes with a warranty. You're right, they'll give you a new
one every time it goes. Personally, I'd rather replace the fool things
ONCE, even if I have to pay a little more for the pump. Ditto parts.
They are NOT all made by the same little old oriental lady in Indonesia.
Twenty-first century here, Jack.

[Jack Finnigan]

Don't know the difference, I was never foolish enought to buy one from a
dealer. One of these guys gave that price.
Water pumps huh, I'll bet you have a plastic blade in yours. 8-) Most are
rebuilt, and they do most all that I know of here in the states. They replace
the packing seals and bearings, and in the one you have, the circulating
blade. Is plastic better?...NO

[Fiero GT Racer]

I'd say pay top dollar if you can afford it for bullet proof performance
parts. The selection is big enough, just ask alot of people who own your
car out there what works. By what I've seen on PFF, aftermarket units
usually don't survive the fiero environment too well and tend to burn up
faster. You either take extra time to make sure you put alot of thermal
grease on it, or you buy a stock delco for your car.

As for water pumps, I'd rather pay alot more if I could afford it to buy a
pump with nice heavy duty bearings and a aluminum impellor then risk getting
a $37 plasti-blade peice of scrap that will fail in a year or two (or right
after warranty goes out).

I've always used the highest quality parts I could afford for my vehicles
and they've always started performing more reliably and better (Talking
about a$$ in seat performance). Mom's car always get's the cheap budget
parts (that's all she wants to get it) and I'm doing some form of repair
almost once a week.

Take your pick.

"Jack Finnigan" <jackfi...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20011103023532...@mb-cm.aol.com...

[Robert W. Hughes]

> You either take extra time to make sure you put alot of thermal
> grease on it, or you buy a stock delco for your car.

One of the common causes of burnup is too much grease. You only want a
thin film, if any oozes out from under the module when you tighten it
down, you used way to much. The idea is metal-metal contact can transfer
the most heat, metal-air-metal transfers the least, and
metal-silicone-metal is between the two. Since it is impossible to get
perfect metal-metal contact, you want to use just enough grease to fill
the small voids where there is not pefect contact. The purpose of all
this is to get heat out of the module, not insulate the module from
engine heat.
--
Robert W. Hughes (Bob)
BackYard Engineering
29:40.237N, 95:28.726W or perhaps 30:55.265N, 95:20.590W
Houston, Texas "The city with too much Oxygen"
rwh...@ev1.net

[Tater]

We in the Fiero community know better than to go with the plastic impeller.

[Jack Finnigan]

Like I said, here's another sales pitch. Go for it guys, and never have
another problem again 8-) Hmmmm, like the Fiero has a special problem with
it's engine compartment????? Don't tell me it heat, I would lose all respect
if you guys believe that one.

Well, I'm done, I pushed all the buttons I wanted for now. BTW, I do this with
valid information. I would never give bad information. I enjoy the quick
slams on typical sales brainwashing that is so common today. Do some homework
and use a lot of common sense.

Jack

[Jack Finnigan]

Heavy duty bearings are only avaliable in heavy duty pumps. GM never made a
heavy duty pump for the Fiero. Infact they only only offered it in very few
engine types. The casting are larger to accomidate the larger bearing and
shaft size. Bearing sizes cover a specific range of sizes, both inch and
metric.

[Jack Finnigan]

What do you have if it's not plastic? Steel, Cast Iron, Alum, stainless?

[Ed Spencer]

I can't tell you about markup, or what's in one over the other. I can
tell you this:

I was having this part fail on my 88GT. I had three of these I used
on a rotating basis. Usually two spares (I'm paranoid) and one on the
car. They were all from different parts houses and different brands.
I had about $60 in those 3 parts (I ended up with 3 when I was in an
area I couldn't swap a bad one out). I eventually put in a Delco unit
and it hasn't failed for more than 2 years. Is it better quality? I
don't know. I can tell you that it stopped failing when I put it in.

On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 02:56:28 GMT, "bobnkris" <stoshn...@home.com>
wrote:

[Tater]

Well that story is prevalent in the Fiero world so I'm thinking that
there's something to it. And of course the Fiero factory won't put any
module in a car unless it's Delco. I'm sure they get a better markup on
the other brands but experience has told them to stick with Delco. I
have a lesser brand module in one of my GTs. We'll see.

[JazzMan]

We put a Wells in my ex's car in Oklahoma, emergency repair, and it
lasted almost 6 months before it crapped out. I rebuilt the distributor
and put a Delco module in and it's run fine ever since, 2 years.

JazzMan

--

[Johnny -Z-]

I've had a cheap-o brand from a discount supply store that has since gone
out of business... turned out my Delco wasn't bad, so I have it as a
spare... but that was over 7 years ago.

Personally, I think it's all a crap shoot when it comes to parts like that.
Delco has the best reputation, but there are no-names that outlast some of
the Delco's... it's just a risk with the numbers game.

"JazzMan" <No_...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:99F70DC94FB46C62.CCDF6BB7...@lp.airnews.net...