88 Vette hard to start when hot
Viet
After the engine is warm up, if I turn it off and restart within a few
minutes, the car start right up, more than five minutes it is very hard
to start it would take longer cranking time to get it running.
I already changed the MAF, TPS, O2 sensor, IAC, EGR valve, clean the
plenum, clean the throttle body. replace EGR valve because the car did
not pass inspection. Replace MAF, TPS, O2 sensor, and IAC valve after
the car had problem of holding idle, poor acceleration...
The fuel injections, and fuel pump pressure check were OK.
the car has 126,000 miles on now, bought it at 111,000 miles.
For old Vette engine, what else do I need to replace? beside rebuild it.
Please help me, if you came across this problem before.
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scar_t...@my-deja.com
if it holds pressure when you shut the car off. When they leak, they
flood the engine, making it hard to start!
In article <164c000c...@usw-ex0106-044.remarq.com>,
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Before you buy.
JLBSSOB
spins easy it is probably fuel related, if it drags it is probably the starter
itself.
Wrench
<viet_tN...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>I have my 88 Vette about a year now, the car is hard to start when hot.
>After the engine is warm up, if I turn it off and restart within a few
>minutes, the car start right up, more than five minutes it is very hard
Leaking injectors. When cold, the fuel has already evaporated, or
what little is left helps enrich the start. After a hot shutdown,
the fuel heat soaks and expands and is forced out the leaky injectors.
It takes a number of minutes for enough fuel to leak causing a flood
condition when starting. Therefore, a hot start within a few minutes
will be OK, but waiting longer will allow enough fuel to leak to cause
a flood condition start. Had this problem on my 88 - changed the
injectors and no problem. Until then, make your delayed hot starts
like you did with a carburetor - hold the butterflys open to help
clear the excess fuel until it catches, then rapidly take your foot
off the pedal.
Viet
Thank you for the advised.
Should I change all injectors?
Should I use the OEM parts?
Where should I look for after market injectors?
Is there any difference between Vettes injectors to other GM cars?
Viet
Ilari Numminen
I have the same problem with my 88 Vette. Do you know if there is any method
to identify leaking injector(s)? The whole set is quite expensive, so it
would be nice to have only the leaking ones changed.
Thanks for any information.
regards,
Ilari
Wrench wrote in message ...
buffalo87
leaking injectors, OEM units were Bosch which were
troublesome leakers. I researched Bosch, blueprinted
Bosch, Lucas, Tomco and Ford SVO (yes Ford injectors will
work and the SVO are higher pound per hour units but are
not recommended unless displacement has been increased as
they will run rich and foul catalytic converters). I
settled on the Tomco units (available at speed shops or Mid
America) as they use a disc instead of the pintle which
leaked and were less expensive, The pound per hour rating
is the same as oem. The hard start problem went away and
performance went up--note the Tomco units work best at 43.5
psi fuel pressure. I'd buy them again.
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buffalo87
engine and shut down for an hour or two and remove the
spark plugs--cylinders with leaking injectors will have wet
plugs from the gas dripping into the cylinder. If you find
a leaker, replace them all--the labor takes as long for one
as for all eight--besides any car with Bosch injectors will
have the problem sooner or later and you car probably has
them as they were oem from 85-87.
Viet
year. Is this something I need to be concern of? How offten does your
TPS goes out?
Is there any concern regarding the fuel pump relay and the MAF relays?
You mention about the fuel pressure, 43 psi, if it is less than that do
I need to be concern?
Is there anyway to test the VSS sensor, and where is it? change the oil
yesterday look around but did not notice it.
One more thing, how many percent of mertic and standard nuts/bolts in
the 88 Vette? most of my tools are metric, should I get some standard
tools? I like to have all the tools at hand when working on the car.
Jon Faret
Sympoms were as described, hard to start when hot....
"buffalo87" <bcbrand...@compaq.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:097faa86...@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com...
> I had hard hot start problems on my 87 which was caused by
> leaking injectors, OEM units were Bosch which were
> troublesome leakers. I researched Bosch, blueprinted
> Bosch, Lucas, Tomco and Ford SVO (yes Ford injectors will
> work and the SVO are higher pound per hour units but are
> not recommended unless displacement has been increased as
> they will run rich and foul catalytic converters). I
> settled on the Tomco units (available at speed shops or Mid
> America) as they use a disc instead of the pintle which
> leaked and were less expensive, The pound per hour rating
> is the same as oem. The hard start problem went away and
> performance went up--note the Tomco units work best at 43.5
> psi fuel pressure. I'd buy them again.
>
>
Blaster297
working on gm tpi.have read a few articles on it.They cost less than 200.00 a
set I am told...............thanks Gary>Subject: Re: 88 Vette hard to start
when hot
>From: buffalo87 bcbrand...@compaq.net.invalid
>Date: 5/18/00 7:38 PM US Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <32aefd4e...@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com>
>
>The easy way to test for leaking injectors is to run the
>engine and shut down for an hour or two and remove the
>spark plugs--cylinders with leaking injectors will have wet
>plugs from the gas dripping into the cylinder. If you find
>a leaker, replace them all--the labor takes as long for one
>as for all eight--besides any car with Bosch injectors will
>have the problem sooner or later and you car probably has
>them as they were oem from 85-87.
>
>
Blaster297
Stephen R. Look
still waiting for a replacement EGR temperature switch so it isn't all back
together yet. Here is one thing I can tell you now though:
The Ford injectors are shorter than the GM parts by .17". However, that
'shortness' is from the top of the fuel rail retaining clip up. Which means the
dimension of the injector from the fuel rail clip to the intake manifold is the
same as the GM part. You do NOT have to mill the intake bosses or anything else.
The injector top O-ring just doesn't fit as far into the fuel rail as the GM
part. I do believe it's in there far enough so there won't be a gas leak but
won't know absolutely for sure until I pressurize the rail.
The new sensor is supposed to be here in the morning, so I should know the rest
of the story by the weekend.
Steve - '85 Z51
Blaster297 wrote:
> Anybody know if there is any truth in the ford motorsports #24 injectors
> working on gm tpi.have read a few articles on it.They cost less than 200.00 a
> set I am told...............thanks Gary>Subject: Re: 88 Vette hard to start
> when hot
--
Stephen R. Look 877-MTMICRO
Monticello Micro 217-762-9590
727 W. Wilson http://www.monticellomicro.com
Monticello, IL 61856 http://www.illinois66.com
buffalo87
not recommend them for street use. One article I read felt
they were fine if you had a 383 stroker to increase
displacement or they may foul the converter. Would like to
hear from the guy putting themn in and get the real story.
Viet
The auto parts store and the dealer parts department told me that 88
Vette either has Bosch or Lucas injectors and I need to know which type
were the original to buy the replacement. Are they pulling my legs?
* would Tomco injector from carpart.com fit my 88 Vette? regardless of
original injectors were Lucas or Bosch?
*How do I know my injectors is Bosch or Lucas?
TuneP...@webtv.net
style like the lucas was..the bosch has a pintel cap on it...
Bosch Injectors have their name printed on it...
or a code that says "CAV" on it.You will have no problem using a lucas
design or a tomco...the Tomcos are good because they are self
cleaning...the Bosch injectors tend to clogg more and their pentil caps
crack and fall off...all my old bosch injectors had cracked and missing
caps on them..I wonder where in the engine it went or if it melted onto
a piston or a valve...
The Ford 24 injectors will work with the TPI...on another forum, there
are several corvette owners using them...they said the car runs good
with it...the Ford injectors will spray a little more fuel than the
stock ones.This is what I read..but isnt a problem.One owner says the
improved fuel flow helped his car run better and start easier.
The 88 vettes uses a cold start injector...also dont dismiss that the
cold start switch could also be defective, but the most common cases of
hot hard starts is leaking injectors.
Also verify that the starter isnt experiencing Heat Soak..which makes it
harder to crank the engine over when it heats up.
Also, see if the fuel rail will hold its pressure...sometimes the check
valve in the pump is allowing gas to come back to the tank faster...if
the fuel pressure drops off a bit fast when you have new injectors, you
need to pich the return line hose with a pair of vise grips...use tape
on the vise grips teeth to prevent damaging the hose and then see if the
fuel pressure holds better..if it does, the check valve in the pumps is
bad. If you clamp off the line and it still drops in pressure, the
fuelressure regulator is leaking...its not very common for the regulator
to leak. If you remove the vacuum line on the regulator and hit has Gas
in it, its leaking.
For the check valve leaking,its Not a serious problem, Ive driven like
this for 4 years...the pump works fine but I didnt want to mess with
it..sometimes its a bit hard to start up right away but hasnt given me
any headaches.
This can also cause some hard start problems.
Viet
to determine what wrong with my car. Look like the cold start valve is
leaking, I think it's the outside O ring. The area around that valve
always wet even after I wipe it dry the day before.
It seem that the shop mannual and visual inspection telling me that in
order to replace the cold start valve i need to do the same work as to
replace the injectors. Please tell me that I am wrong (I was hoping
that I can change the cold start valve without taking the plenum, and
the fuel rail off)
for that amount of work I'll replace the injectors regardless.
I called carpart.com to check on the Tomco injectors, also called the
dealer for the injectors. Both places asked me the make of the
original injectors, Bosch or Lucas. carpart.com sell rep. told me that
Tomco injectors are either rebuild of Bosch or Lucas. They need to
know which one to sell me the corrected Tomco injectors.
I can't see any marking in the side of my injectors ( PR for Bosch and
CAV for Lucas) look like I have to take the plenum off and pull the
injectors to be able to see the marking.
I even check Pepboy and they also ask for the make of my injectors.
Question for all who used Tomco. (Tuneport86/buffalo87/Jon Faret)
*Is this mean that the Lucas rebuild has disc style and the Bosch
rebuild has pintel cap? Or the rebuild bosch has disc style also?
*Did you buy the new Tomco injectors (or was it a rebuild one), and
could tell me the part number?
*Is this mean that if my injectors originally is from Bosch, I could
replace it with the Lucas injectors with no problem?
For the Vette owner who use FORD injector #24:
*Could you tell me exactly the name and the part number (is it just
Ford injectors #24)?
*It would help to know which Ford model those injectors were used and
how would I go about to obtain the Ford injectors #24?
*Does the fuel consumtion increase/same/decrease (mpg) by using the
Ford injectors?
I don't want to pull the injectors just to see if it is Bosch or Lucas.
When I find out how to obtain the exact injectors #24, I'll give it a
try since it is much cheaper (less than $200 for all eights)than the
Tomco ($53 each at carpart.com)
Please e-mail me if you can at: vie...@hotmail.com
my 88Vette park in Lower Buck County (northeast of Philadelphia)
Stephen R. Look
fuel pressure to see if injectors were holding pressure. No fuel pressure! Went
through diag procedure in the shop manual - bad fuel pump. This was why it stopped
running in the first place! I guess I should have checked the fuel pressure first but
the other work definitely needed to be done anyway. I was amazed to discover that
replacing the fuel pump on a C4 is so easy! Took me about an hour. So after that was
done, I tried starting it again. No go, but I did have good fuel pressure at the rail
and the pressure held. So my new Ford 24# injectors do hold pressure even though they
are a bit shorter into the fuel rail than the stock units. I think I probably have
the distributor a tooth off on the timing.
A couple of folks wanted to know where I got the injectors - Summit Racing catalog:
"Ford Racing Injector Kit" FMS-M9593A302, 24 lb/hr flow rate - $209.95 for the set of
8.
"Stephen R. Look" wrote:
> I'm just about ready to tell the group my experience with the Ford injectors. I'm
> still waiting for a replacement EGR temperature switch so it isn't all back
> together yet. Here is one thing I can tell you now though:
>
> The Ford injectors are shorter than the GM parts by .17". However, that
> 'shortness' is from the top of the fuel rail retaining clip up. Which means the
> dimension of the injector from the fuel rail clip to the intake manifold is the
> same as the GM part. You do NOT have to mill the intake bosses or anything else.
> The injector top O-ring just doesn't fit as far into the fuel rail as the GM
> part. I do believe it's in there far enough so there won't be a gas leak but
> won't know absolutely for sure until I pressurize the rail.
>
> The new sensor is supposed to be here in the morning, so I should know the rest
> of the story by the weekend.
>
> Steve - '85 Z51
--
Viet
I finally change the fuel injectors (I used Lucas instead of my
original Bosch), did not change the cold start vavle, couldn't get the
valve, look like nobody has it in stock.
The car start right up when the engine is hot now.