Why haven't 2nd gens caught on like 1st gens
Michael LeJeune
Anyone care to offer opinions why 2nd gen camaros haven't got the crazed
following like the 1st generation? Seems like a person with enough money
could construct a 1st gen from scratch with all the available parts. 2nd
gen's are not even close to being there yet. Am I missing something or
will the 2nd gen Camaros ever catch on and spawn the massive reproduction
parts market like the 1st gens?
As for all the new models, they seem to have quite a following also. For
the money, I'd rather modernize an old one and have something unique,
without emissions constraints to boot! Just my opinion FWIW.
Maybe I've had too many unproductive visits to the junkyards!!! Those 2nd
gen parts, particularly the plastic interior items, are hard to find in any
kind of decent condition and exact reproductions are not yet available and
maybe never will be!! Oh well, flame me if you will now that I've
vented....long live the old iron.
Keepin the 'stangs in the rear view!!
leje...@iamerica.net
70 Z28 (Rat power)
Phibit 100
They're ugly. Just like 2nd gen mustangs.
Lev
---------
`91 z28
`87 Grand National
`87 McLaren Mercury Topaz =^)
Scott
Michael LeJeune <leje...@iamerica.net> wrote in article
<01bd6ccf$50d665a0$683a51ce@oemcomputer>...
> Anyone care to offer opinions why 2nd gen camaros haven't got the crazed
> following like the 1st generation? Seems like a person with enough money
> could construct a 1st gen from scratch with all the available parts. 2nd
> gen's are not even close to being there yet. Am I missing something or
> will the 2nd gen Camaros ever catch on and spawn the massive reproduction
> parts market like the 1st gens?
I repsect your oninion, so in my opinion they are the quintessential
definition of junk. Ugly to look and awful to drive. They just scream
white trash.
A258INF
Personally, I think they look extremely powerful. I love the new 4th gen aleek
look, but the 2nd just give the image of being built like pro bodybuilder,
IMHO.
1977 305 Camaro Coupe
1997 V-6 Camaro T-top
Dagon7
Most people think they are simply not as good looking as the 1st Gens,
esspecially the 69's. Also those are the first generation of Camaro. People
view the 70's as the decline as the muscle car, therefore the 70's camaros
don't get as much attention.
Dagon
89' 350ci IROC-Z
SoftSell Inc.
There were not many 1st gens made compared to 2nd (11 years of them). That
raises the value and enables the aftermaket to sell parts 'cause the bone
yards never had much. For 2nd gens' junk parts were avail up till a few
years ago. They may become more available aftermarket since the yards are
depleted??
As for looks, I like the early 70-73 (split) steel chrome bumper look better
than the newer euro-plastic machines. Older vehicles can end up to be what
YOU like instead of the GM designers. Will increase in value, have no
emissions/restrictions, and can easily be quicker. A more unique machine for
less money. Buy a new car and check the value in a couple of years. Show a
new machine at a car show and see the crowd.
Put half the money into a 2nd gen and have a faster, better looking vehicle
that will hold it's value! There's my opinion. At least it's positive!
from leje...@iamerica.net
>Oh well, flame me if you will now that I've
>vented....long live the old iron.
Ditto
Rickm
SoftSell Inc. wrote:
>
> There were not many 1st gens made compared to 2nd (11 years of them). That
> raises the value and enables the aftermaket to sell parts 'cause the bone
> yards never had much. For 2nd gens' junk parts were avail up till a few
> years ago. They may become more available aftermarket since the yards are
> depleted??
>
> As for looks, I like the early 70-73 (split) steel chrome bumper look better
> than the newer euro-plastic machines. Older vehicles can end up to be what
> YOU like instead of the GM designers. Will increase in value, have no
> emissions/restrictions, and can easily be quicker. A more unique machine for
> less money. Buy a new car and check the value in a couple of years. Show a
> new machine at a car show and see the crowd.
>
> Put half the money into a 2nd gen and have a faster, better looking vehicle
> that will hold it's value! There's my opinion. At least it's positive!
I've always liked the '70-'72 Camaros. I dont' really care for the
'73-'92 body style though. I evened owned a '71 SS350 until about a
month ago. There are tons of aftermarket peices for these cars. The only
thing I had trouble finding was interior Items for the Deluxe interior.
The Deluxe interior wasn't a common option. The standard interior pieces
are reproduced though as well as all chrome, sheet metal, glass and
mechanical peices.
rm
'65 Malibu SS (dyno'd 285rwhp/330ftlbs)
'96 Camaro Z28 (dyno'd 264rwhp/303ftlbs)
'86 Bronco EB (Gotta let wife drive something)
lilg...@hotmail.com
The 2nd gens from 70-73 were not bad. They handled better than the last
generation and the Z28's were much faster. (low 13's stock) After 73 the
government really kicked in along with the gas shortage to ruin the rest on
the 2nd gens. Before that they could be VERY sharp, Z stripes and the rs split
bumper made the car one of the best looking camaro's ever built. The stereotyp
is that all these cars are "white trash" mobiles (along with most of the less
than perfect third gens) but that is only true for the later years.
As far as parts go, have you tried Classic Industries?
(www.classicindustries.com) They, along with several other companies make most
of the parts for all years of camaros (except the real crappy ones from like
1976 that nobody in their right mind would bother to fix up)
Marty
'69 Camaro 350 ci 14.3 @ 90mph
In article <01bd6cda$1a0ef4a0$3de1...@srw.erinet.com>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
LSparks709
>
>They're ugly. Just like 2nd gen mustangs.
The only "ugly" 2nd gen. Camaros IMO are the 74-77 models.
Leonard
78 Camaro LT, 406TPI, 700r4,3.42 posi, 4wheel disc. 82 Skylark, 2.8 MPI, K&N
filter, Z24 wheels, 4 wheel disc. 73 Mustang, 351C 2V,#'s match,90 Dynasty
(wifes cars)
Who dies with the most toys, still dies, no prize.
Z28andrews
70-73 Camaro`s are the best looking years IMHO. You just see so few really nice
examples on the road. Up to a year ago the later 2nd gens were a dime a dozen
in the junk yards (and twice as many `birds), now they are all gone. The repro
parts are slow coming, but they are coming. And the 1st gens have been done to
death but will stay popular cause they are the FIRST. And I can still find
beaty in the later 2nd gens even seeing them mudflapped, jack upped, cherry
bombed with chain steering wheels. Hardly a day goes by that I don`t end up
talking to some guy looking at my car thinking back to the 70 RS he used to
have that he let get away from him (and of course everyone assumes a 70-73 is a
70) and I once say a firstfight start at a car show cause of a guy trying to
pass a standard with split bumpers off as an RS. The second came came over,
looked at my car, asked me to show him the differences between my car and his
(mine being an RS) and he promply went back to the other guy, had words, and
punched him in the nose. Now that is a devoted following!!!!!!
1973 Camaro RS Type LT
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/6765/
"I want to die in my sleep like grandpa, not screaming in terror like the other
passengers in the car."
Fett
Michael LeJeune <leje...@iamerica.net> wrote in article
<01bd6ccf$50d665a0$683a51ce@oemcomputer>...
> Anyone care to offer opinions why 2nd gen camaros haven't got the crazed
> following like the 1st generation?
1st gens are just that. The first of what was to become a legend. The
first of anything often has more collector appeal then later models. Aside
from that, They are ultra cool!
And if you think finding junkyard parts is hard for a 2nd gen, try even
finding a 1st gen in a junkyard. This really sounds stupid, but I spent 3
years looking for a dashboard ashtray! When I bought the car, it was
missing. I have the delux interior and the ashtray has a wood grain
finish. Only a '68 will fit. I found one at the Charlotte auto show about
2 weeks ago! I almost wet my pants and paid more than I want to admit for
it. Don't think everything is re-produced for the 1st gens! I can
personally tell you that NOBODY makes the dashboard ashtray for a '68!
Jim
THP 01
>white trash eh.. what the hell kind of comment is that.. maybe the
>rustbucket ones.. yes...but the ones that people put time and money into
>certainley do not.. much better then the overdone 3rd gens that everyone >and
>their sister owns....
agreed 100%. white trash 2nd gen's are the sagging, rusty, havent been washed
let alone waxed in 10 years camaros.....personally, i love my `81 berlinetta
305.....paint is still excellent, wash every 2 weeks if not weekly, wax every
6mos, interior is perfect, and "only" has 87,xxx original miles....if you call
that a white trash camaro....well then.
guess i had to vent, eh!
Alex
-th...@spamthis.aol.com-
1981 Camaro Berlinetta
305cid - v8
original and clean car
Michael LeJeune
I've seen my share of "Cheech and chong"-mobile type 2nd Gen Camaros and
Flamebirds, and the typical treatment is less than desirable,
but:
I've got this image in my mind from the cover of one of my dad's early 70's
Hot Rod magazines of Bill Jenkin's "Grumpy's Toy" 70 Camaro Pro Stocker
with the front wheels up. Man, those split bumpers on that standard front
looked tough. Sorry 1st gen guys. The 2nd gens, when prepared right,
project a more muscular image, at least the 70-73's do and also have a hint
of styling reminiscent of the '55 Chevy (rectangular egg crate grille).
Maybe that's why I'm partial. Just my dusty old opinion.
BTW, i've seen more than my share of boom-boxed low riding 3rd and 4th gens
too and the treatment doesn't do them justice either!
Phibit 100 <phib...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199804210254...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> They're ugly. Just like 2nd gen mustangs.
>
Michael LeJeune
Must have been looking at the back end of a 2nd gen mustang? they're all
beautiful from the front (as in the rear view mirror perspective).
Paddy68
Lilguymel Wrote:
<snip>
> After 73 the
>government really kicked in along with the gas shortage to ruin the rest on
>the 2nd gens.
Sorry Marty because you actually took the time to write something other
then,"they are ugly", and I respect that but there were more concerns and
different reasons for the low performance. First of all the supposed power
crunch happened in 71 with G.M. lowering compression and fudging lower power
numbers(net hp ratings) and not 73. 73 in fact saw the birth of one of the
most powerful and collectable Firebirds of all time, the S.D. 455. The main
reason for the power decrease was the insurance companies and their horsepower
per cubic inch rule. Emissions and the Govt. came later(about 75). I will
agree that the Government had something to do with the initial push but not
even close to the insurance companies.
>is that all these cars are "white trash" mobiles (along with most of the less
>than perfect third gens) but that is only true for the later years.
I believe a pickup with no tires in the front yard is white trash, The original
poster of this comment probably owns a Gremlin and is pissed that there is no
Newsgroup for his kind. You like what you like. If everyone liked the same
thing, GM would still be making the first gen cars. No need for change if they
sell.
<snip>
>They, along with several other companies make most
>of the parts for all years of camaros (except the real crappy ones from like
>1976 that nobody in their right mind would bother to fix up)
<snip>
Once again, You like what you like. I believe 77 was the return of the Z28 .
I, in my right mind, would buy a few of those if I had the coin. 76 T/A's were
also very cool looking and still available with the 455(last year). The Smokey
and the Bandit T/A was a 77 or 78. There were also lots of special addition
T/A's in this era. Everything will eventually be collectable. In 74 the first
gen cars were selling for peanuts because no one thought they were special.
Edsels are even worth alot of money now.
Second Generation Cars will tke over the same way first gens took over
from the Shoe Boxes and GTO's. Once the price of the first gens gets too out
of hand for the every day person the next best thing will come along, the
second gens. Natural progession.
Pat A
69 Firebird 400 Conv.
When I want your opionion I will give it to you =8-)
Non AOLers E-mail me at Maxb...@AOL.com
lilg...@hotmail.com
Your right. The Mid 70's T/A's were pretty cool. I sort of forgot about them.
The only real problem I have with cars from 74 and up is their quality. The
metal that ALL car companies were using was crap and all those cars seemed to
rust out in a 3 or 4 years regardless of how well you took care of them. They
are the ones I see driving around with holes everywhere, cracked windshields,
and mufflers dragging. It is real rare to see one (around Ohio anyway) that
actually looks like it's worth the time and money to restore.
In reality guess that white trash is really a function of a particular car and
it's owner. Your right, those cars were attractive when they first came out
and will probably be popular again. How popular and plentiful they are depends
on how fast we can snach the good ones away from their uncaring white trash
owners.
In article <199804220831...@ladder03.news.aol.com>#1/1,
THP 01
as i was driving my NOT-WHITE TRASH 1981 Camaro Berlinetta today, i saw a 79 or
80 beat to hell camaro sagging like (insert what you want), and it had a flat
tire in the back (while being driven).....
further adding to the stereotype of 2nd gen's being white trash mobiles.....i
agree with *some* camaros being the white trash beaters that they are, but ive
seen corvettes the same way, any other car, you name it....its just that you
dont see many 2nd gen's and soemtimes the few you do see look like they just
got yanked from the junkyard and onto the road.
Steve Cole
On 23 Apr 1998, THP 01 wrote:
> further adding to the stereotype of 2nd gen's being white trash mobiles.....i
> agree with *some* camaros being the white trash beaters that they are, but ive
> seen corvettes the same way, any other car, you name it....its just that you
> dont see many 2nd gen's and soemtimes the few you do see look like they just
> got yanked from the junkyard and onto the road.
I honestly don't see many 2nd gens trashed around here.... there's lots of
them and most are in good shape (I'm in Ontario, though). It's the 3rd
gen cars that are driven by yahoos around here.
Cheers,
Steve |President & Systems Administrator, Kingston Online Services
|(e pluribus unix) Multiple-T1 URL: http://www.kos.net/
|Business and Education partners in SouthEastern Ontario
|
|"Through the firewall, out the router, down the T1, across the
|backbone, bounced from satellite, it's nothing but net."
|(forgive me if I'm terse, I answer hundreds of e-mails a day)
Phil G.
LSparks709 wrote:
>
> >
> >They're ugly. Just like 2nd gen mustangs.
>
Thanks Leonard! I was about to get all hacked about this thread until I
remembered that most people associate the 2nd Gen Camaro with the 74+
models.
When I hear 2nd gen I think 70-1/2 thru 73, and forget the later ones
(in fact for a long time I thought the 3rd gen started with 74 because
IMO they were a significant departure, both in performance and
appearance (and in the wrong direction).
I love the look of the early 2nd gens (like mine). That "fighter plane"
nose intake (which they have kinda redicsovered in the new one) and the
reasonably aerodynamic shape (for the time) IS what I think of when I
think Camaro.
Unfettered V8 power is another plus. Although the purists will shake
their heads at my '67 327 in mine. I'd rather have it as it is than the
sick-baby-shit-green, inline six, three-on-the-tree, base model it was
when new.
I feel better now...
Phil.
ASmall9494
>From: "Phil G."
My personal favorite Camaro that I ever drove was a 70 1/2 Z28 with 396 and 4
on the floor. It was orange with black racing stripes and a black interior. I
really liked that car, but at the time I was in college and didn't have the
$10K and they wouldn't come down to my price range. Man that was one nice
auto. 74-81 anything? No thanks unless its a chassis for future, heavy mods.
riored97cobra#301
13.88 @ 102.5
K&N, pulleys, bored 80mm mass air
see my web page http://riored.fordpower.org
D TERIYAKI
>
>70-73 Camaro`s are the best looking years IMHO. You just see so few really
>nice
>examples on the road.
same is true for the firebirds, if only we could wrestle more away from the
'white trash'! newest ones look like big wheel chocks...
Quick305
In my opinion 2nd gens are the the uglyest camaros built. but when they have
been done right they look pretty good. It is my personal preference and i
belive that most people think along the same lines that is probly why they have
not caught on. Now don't get me wrong some of them look pretty good but I think
3rd gen's and 1st gens are the best looking ones. It is just a matter of
preferance.
RoyCR5
Quick305 wrote in message
<199804260644...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>>>
>>>70-73 Camaro`s are the best looking years IMHO. You just see so few
really
>>>nice
>>>examples on the road.
I agree, that's why I own a '71 RS.
>>
>>same is true for the firebirds, if only we could wrestle more away from
the
>>'white trash'! newest ones look like big wheel chocks...
>
>In my opinion 2nd gens are the the uglyest camaros built. but when they
have
>been done right they look pretty good. It is my personal preference and i
>belive that most people think along the same lines that is probly why they
have
>not caught on.
Not caught on? How many were sold compared to 3rd or 4th gens?
Does anyone know? Aren't Camaro sales dropping now? Never
heard talk about "no more" before. Except when the IROC name had
problems with usage rights. They had to change the name or pay more
to use it. Still made them though. Mustangs were around then too!
Weren't Camaro selling better than mustangs in 2nd gen years.?
I think when they caught on was in the 70's and now it's fading.
>Now don't get me wrong some of them look pretty good but I think
>3rd gen's and 1st gens are the best looking ones. It is just a matter of
>preferance.
Maybe new Camaro owners probably feel this way.
Not my preference though.
Roy
WThomp6470
yea i have a 71 ta and 71 camaro they are butiful had to get a new camro for
the gas milage ...
Alex (aka House Of Pain)
94 camaro
71 camaro
71 trans am
freddy
> In my opinion 2nd gens are the the uglyest camaros built.
:-(
I have a -79 Camaro
Picture : http://195.159.64.62/amcar/freddy
i like this car...I realy have plans to fix this car to be realy nice...
Freddy.
Chris H.
Phil G. wrote in message <3541FCE3...@ix.netcom.com>...
>LSparks709 wrote:
>> >They're ugly. Just like 2nd gen mustangs.
>> The only "ugly" 2nd gen. Camaros IMO are the 74-77 models.
>
> Thanks Leonard! I was about to get all hacked about this thread until I
>remembered that most people associate the 2nd Gen Camaro with the 74+
>models.
Much more than thier styling was the fact that they were a piece of crap for
quarter mile and horrible handling. Not that the 1st gens handled worth a
hoot but the 350/396 upto 375hp 1st gens at least had decent quarter mile
straight line performance that was really even matched in the 3rd gens.
Gawd Nobody buys a Camaro or Firebird to to be put to sleep when they stomp
down on the gas. 2nd gens were so gutless there just wasn't any point. Not
that they couldn't be fixed up. They just didn't stir anyone's imaginations
new from the factory so they didn't sell near as well. It was better to
rebuild/restore your 1st gen or Goat/Malibu than to piss around with a 2nd
gen F-Body. About the only people that bought 2nd gen F-Bodys were middle
aged men.
> When I hear 2nd gen I think 70-1/2 thru 73, and forget the later ones
>(in fact for a long time I thought the 3rd gen started with 74 because
>IMO they were a significant departure, both in performance and
>appearance (and in the wrong direction).
Actually factory F-Body performance wasn't worth even talking about until at
least 1986, well into the 3rd gens. That included both speed and handling.
> I love the look of the early 2nd gens (like mine). That "fighter plane"
>nose intake (which they have kinda redicsovered in the new one) and the
>reasonably aerodynamic shape (for the time) IS what I think of when I
>think Camaro.
I liked it when I first saw it 26 years ago, but now when I see it it looks
like the Bell Bottoms of Auto Styling <chuckle>. Could be bell bottoms are
coming back also <couldn't resist the comparison>.
> Unfettered V8 power is another plus. Although the purists will shake
>their heads at my '67 327 in mine. I'd rather have it as it is than the
>sick-baby-shit-green, inline six, three-on-the-tree, base model it was
>when new.
That was what the 2nd gen was lacking that you put in...a motor..Not bad
once you did that, but like the 1st gen's, they still didn't handle worth a
crap. There are a lot of good running 327's still rolling around. Not much
of a demand for stock 2nd gens so you just as well forget the purist and
make it worth driving.
Now if you had something like a 1964 goat w/389 tri-power, then it's good to
be a purist as I can't imagine running anything in the goat but a 389
tripower, but On a 2nd gen camaro/firebird, the best you can do for the poor
thing is to run something (anything) besides the stock engine that came in
those old beaters.
