Fram Oil filter anyone?
Quick Silver
one is better? I also run Mobil 1 10W 30 along with it.
CBHVAC
AC Delco filters are the only thing that should be screwed on to the filter
base..
Fram was involved in a lawsuit back in the 80s, over engine failures. Cut
one apart, and you see why nothing changed..
Complete garbage.
--
www.carolinabreezehvac.com
"Quick Silver" <QKSi...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3AD3E349...@twcny.rr.com...
CBHVAC
GM is not the company that tested and reported that Fram filters were like
running nothing on your car. I run AC Delco filters on my FORDS, my MOPARS
and my GM cars.
I also sold the pos filters for years...nothing but complaints it
seemed....antidrainback valves either non existent on those that needed one,
or they did not work at all...hence, the lawsuit from hundreds of people
that had a legit complaint on engine failures.
Also, Ford, AKA Motorcraft, does not even make the filters ex: FL1A, or F8
in that Fram you like. Champion Labs makes them.
Here is a quote from a website that had a big discussion on filters:
start
WORST to BEST
Fram, Valvoline, Pennzoil, Motivator, Wix/Dana, Master Mechanic, Lee-Maxi,
Big-A, A/C, IPD, Mann, Volvo (1266286-2), Volvo (3517857-3) [new one].
If filter paper quality was also examined, the order would probably be
rearranged a bit....
The filter paper area went from 118 sqr. inches (FRAM) to 307 sqr. inches
(volvo). The side wall thickness went from .012 inches (Lee-Maxi) to .021
(volvo). The check valves are in most of the filters.
end
THIS is from a guy that worked at a Fram factory:
I'ld be very careful using Fram Oil filters. Check out the Engine Oil Filter
Study:
http://minimopar.simplenet.com/oilfilterstudy.html
Look at the section on Fram.. For those who don't want to read this, I'm
including the text from a letter written by an Allied Signal Production
Engineer (the produce the Fram Filters):
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Russell,
I obtained great satisfaction from reading your oil filter survey.
I worked for two years as the oil-filter production line engineer in an
Allied-Signal FRAM facility and I can confirm every bad thing you have said
about FRAM automotive filters. That's from the horse's mouth, as it were.
I'm also a quality engineer and can confirm that FRAM applies no quality
control whatsoever to any of the characteristics for which we buy oil
filters. I frequently saw filter designs which were barely capable of
meeting J806. Many of FRAM's designs will block and go to bypass after
trying to filter very little contamination. There were
often leakage paths at the paper end discs when these were not properly
centered on the elements. Some designs had the pleats so
tightly packed against the center tube that they would block off in no time.
I had discovered that the FRAM HP1 that I had been buying for about $20 Cdn
was EXACTLY the same as a PH8 inside - the only difference being a heavier
can - no advantages in flow capacity. The paper filtration media was of
apparently poor quality and the process of curing the paper resin was very
inconsistent - elements would range from visibly burnt to white. FRAM's
marketers admitted that there was
just about no way the public could ever prove that an oil filter
contributed, or did not prevent, engine damage. The only thing FRAM
tested for was can burst strength. Another problem that they have from time
to time is in threading the filter base - often there are strands of metal
left behind on a poorly formed thread.
I have not used a FRAM filter since I started working there. Their claims
are entirely and completely marketing bullshit.
If people really want to protect their engines, a good air filter is vital
(which excludes FRAM from that list as well) and a combination of one depth
and one full-flow hydraulic filter, together in parallel,
will do the job of filtration to perfection.
Thanks for doing a great job in trying to get the truth out! You can quote
me anytime.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AND, finally...here is the NEW website so you can go look for yourself...
http://members.nbci.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html
The old link will not work as Yahoo bought out the other provider.
Fram?? OH YEA...its YOUR money, its YOUR engine...run from Fram like the
plague..
--
www.carolinabreezehvac.com
"Glen Haasdyk" <mit...@silk.net> wrote in message news:3ad3ee45@nubby2....
> GM recommends an ACdelco filter because GM owns AC delco. (just like Ford
> owns Motorcraft) A fram filter will work just fine, that's what I use.
> Glen
> 1987 Iroc-z
>
> Quick Silver <QKSi...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:3AD3E349...@twcny.rr.com...
Space Ace
with Fram filters. I've used them for 6 years.
"CBHVAC" <in...@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
news:DrSA6.1944$NM5....@eagle.america.net...
phisk
changing the oil on something around here, and when I removed the Fram, I
felt something heavy move around inside of it. A couple weeks later, I ran
into a website that showed what many brands look like, cut open. Fram's
looked to be the cheapest POS filter on his page.
I just tried to find the URL, but don't have it anymore. Maybe someone
else has the link. I['ve used ACDelco in some cases, and the Mobil1 filters
in other cases since...
Bill
"Glen Haasdyk" <mit...@silk.net> wrote in message news:3ad3ee45@nubby2....
> GM recommends an ACdelco filter because GM owns AC delco. (just like Ford
> owns Motorcraft) A fram filter will work just fine, that's what I use.
> Glen
> 1987 Iroc-z
>
> Quick Silver <QKSi...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:3AD3E349...@twcny.rr.com...
Dennis Scott
--
"Quick Silver" <QKSi...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3AD3E349...@twcny.rr.com...
Duncan
my modifed chevy, but knew not where to turn for options...
I run the HP4 because it is what the engine builder put on it (I bought the car
used, and did not contract the engine build, but the builder is highly
respected in the area racing circles).
My question: What is a good filter for a modded 350? My specs are as follows:
350+.030, 10:1, Comp Cams 280H, Edelbrock Victor Jr., Holley 4779, Dart Heads,
ported pretty thouroughly, Heddman headers, Borla Exhaust. probably 350-400hp
in the car due to compromised intake (filter) and exhaust compared to the dyno
settup (426@6300, 385T@5500).
What keeps me buying the Fram is the UNKNOWN...The oil pressure guage in the 84
Vette (Digital) pegs at 80psi when cold, runs 50-70 when warm, depending on
rpm...Do other filters have the burst strength I need?
What AC or ??? Filter would you recommed?
I bought a genuine Motorcraft filter for my new F150, same one the factory put
on, and it looks far better than the Frams on the shelf did...for whatever that
is worth?
Thanks, pd
Brad
> start
> WORST to BEST
>
> Fram, Valvoline, Pennzoil, Motivator, Wix/Dana, Master Mechanic, Lee-Maxi,
> Big-A, A/C, IPD, Mann, Volvo (1266286-2), Volvo (3517857-3) [new one].
For those who may not know, Napa filters are the same as the Wix
filters. Those and the Purolaters are good stuff. Perhaps not *the*
best, but still good (and cheap).
Bigjfig
>From: "Dennis Scott" dsc...@kc.rr.com
>Date: 4/11/01 10:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <GVZA6.4190$n83.8...@typhoon.kc.rr.com>
Delco makes a few lines now:
The blue ones are Dura Guards,
The silver ones are Ultra Guards,
And there's another line (I just saw it in Counterman Magazine if I recollect
correctly) as well.
I like to use Delco for my GM cars. Around here they are like 2.50 (and less
when on sale) at Kmart and places like that. Can't beat it :).
On the Saturn and Delta 88 I use what is on sale or what I can get from the
parts store. Must be a brand I have used and trusted before. I have had no
trouble with any one brand, but I'm very regular on oil and filter changes :).
Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist
'80 Carousel Red Turbo, 26k original-->http://www.0rdernet.com/Mean_Pont
'79 10th Ann. 400/4 speed, 57k original-->http://home.earthlink.net/~bryanan
'84 Olds Delta 88, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 137k and still going....
Keith Wood
Quick Silver wrote:
>
> Is the Fram oil filter good for my 5.7 L? GM recommends ACDelco.
GM OWNS AC/Delco. What did you think they were going to tell you to
spend your money on? ;)
Dennis Scott
has more and better quality media inside and they are just built better. Not
that GM has to tell you, it's just true.
--
"Keith Wood" <k...@bctv.com> wrote in message
news:3AD4F174...@bctv.com...
Dennis Scott
> trouble with any one brand, but I'm very regular on oil and filter changes
:).
Joe, that's the best thing you can do. Even a junk filter will work somewhat
if you are maintaince conscious.
--
"Bigjfig" <big...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010411182051...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: Fram Oil filter anyone?
> >From: "Dennis Scott" dsc...@kc.rr.com
> >Date: 4/11/01 10:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <GVZA6.4190$n83.8...@typhoon.kc.rr.com>
> >
> >The best is the Delco. Also in the same category is the Mobil 1 filter.
> >
> >--
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >"Quick Silver" <QKSi...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
> >news:3AD3E349...@twcny.rr.com...
> >> Is the Fram oil filter good for my 5.7 L? GM recommends ACDelco. Which
> >> one is better? I also run Mobil 1 10W 30 along with it.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Delco makes a few lines now:
>
> The blue ones are Dura Guards,
> The silver ones are Ultra Guards,
>
> And there's another line (I just saw it in Counterman Magazine if I
recollect
> correctly) as well.
>
> I like to use Delco for my GM cars. Around here they are like 2.50 (and
less
> when on sale) at Kmart and places like that. Can't beat it :).
>
> On the Saturn and Delta 88 I use what is on sale or what I can get from
the
> parts store. Must be a brand I have used and trusted before> Joe--ASE
Quick Silver
Dennis Scott
would still use the best I could find in anything. It's just with close
changes, the cheapies will at least keep it from wearing, just not as well.
I don't think 1500 miles is all that often. I've changed mine a lot sooner
if I've used much giggle juice. I use A/C Delco on all my engines, even the
Dakota.
--
"Quick Silver" <QKSi...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3AD53561...@twcny.rr.com...
Quick Silver
if that is a good filter or not. My car is too low, I can't change the oil at
my dealer anymore.
Bigjfig
>Date: 4/12/01 3:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3AD5FC2B...@twcny.rr.com>
Depending on the numbering system, the Valvoline is not made by them. It's
probably a Fram or Wix or Purolator in disguise. Perhaps a Champion labs one.
Bigjfig
>Message-id: <rm9B6.6102$n83.1...@typhoon.kc.rr.com>
True. I try to use only Delco on the GM cars and I use Hastings once and while
on the Olds 88 because I buy them by the case and get 'em cheap :).
The lines are UltraGuard, Duraguard and SilverGuard in Delco, now that I
remember.
The blues are Duraguard, the Ultras are gold and the Silver guards are none
other than, silver :)
98Camaro
including Fram, and have been proven to filter more. This topic has been
covered hear before, and at one point in time, I posted a like to the test
results from a reputable company.
"phisk" <ph...@no.way> wrote in message
news:td8idf3...@corp.supernews.com...
Keith Wood
Even if they were made out of used mosquito netting, do you REALLY
expect GM to tell you to buy anything other than their own parts?
Dennis Scott
filters. Cut one open and compare to all the rest.
--
"Keith Wood" <k...@bctv.com> wrote in message
news:3ADA4C1E...@bctv.com...
CBHVAC
replace an OEM part...one that was designed to work with a particular make.
On a bone stock Dodge for example, the best spark plug to use is a
Champion...thats the plug that the system was designed for....NOT some low
resistance platinum plug...
Same with a Ford..Motorcraft plugs, NOT Autolight, since Autolight is a
division of Fram...NOT Ford anymore...
I am not saying that there are not some minor improvements that can be
sought after...just stating a simple fact...for everyday use, OEM is the way
to go.....but then, if we all followed the OEM specs on everything, there
would be alot more 300,000 miles cars on the road.
--
www.carolinabreezehvac.com
"Dennis Scott" <dsc...@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:6DsC6.24547$n83.3108294@typhoon.kc.rr.com...
98Camaro
recommend their OEM brand because it was integral to the engine design.
Also, they can have a direct effect on the quality of their parts. If a OEM
recommended third party were to cut on quality to lower costs, and engine
problems eventually occured, huhu FRAM, they would be liable for making the
recommendation (yet they would have absolutely no control of the cost
sutting measure). If you do not want to buy OEM recommended parts, that is
fine, but realize they do not do so just because.
Not to knit pick, but Autolite is a peer of Fram. They are both divisions
of Allied Signal.
"CBHVAC" <in...@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
news:a5vC6.133$gd....@eagle.america.net...
Bigjfig
>Date: 4/16/01 12:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <#s7tORpxAHA.292@cpmsnbbsa09>
Which are now owned by Honeywell Consumer Products Group :)
98Camaro
a big Allied signal office/manu complex near me that is now labeled
Honeywell, I just figured allied signal left. Now it all makes sense.
Thanks.
"Bigjfig" <big...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010416142116...@ng-mq1.aol.com...
Brad
> I am not saying that there are not some minor improvements that can be
> sought after...just stating a simple fact...for everyday use, OEM is the way
> to go.....but then, if we all followed the OEM specs on everything, there
> would be alot more 300,000 miles cars on the road.
For a 300,000 mile car, I'd tend to toss many OEM specs such as "change
the oil every 7,500 miles" out the window, though.
CBHVAC
"Bigjfig" <big...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010416142116...@ng-mq1.aol.com...
CBHVAC
change every 4,000 miles. I believe the owners manual stated 3500...got it
around here someplace...might have to go dig up some trivia...LOL
--
www.carolinabreezehvac.com
"Brad" <BigP...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3ADB4D77...@ix.netcom.com...
Cyrus Welch
was an article on oil and oil breakdown. Somebody had the oil analyzed and
went through the whole analysis at 3000 miles, 7500 miles and something a
bit higher. They did the same with synthetics, and if I remember correctly,
basically a bit after the manufactures recommended change interval,
materials started to show in the conventional oil that showed that wear had
accelerated, and basically the stuff in the oil to prevent wear (additives
other than the oil) were basically used up by that point. They also said
that those same points were at 3 times the interval with synthetics. I've
never had an engine fail from anything remotely lubrication related, and
have always stuck to the manufactures recommended intervals (4000 years ago,
then up to 5000 and now 7500). The manufacturer went to a lot of work to
determine the point at which wear starts to accelerate from breakdown of the
oil, and that's what they use for the recommended change interval. The
whole REAL reason we hear all this 3000-4000 mile stuff is that the oil
companies want us to change our oil as often as they can get us to. One
thing that all the oil change places try to tell us is that pretty much all
of use drive under extreme conditions. I read a statement from a GM
engineer who said (this was a few years ago) that when they say normal
conditions vs. extreme, normal is how MOST drivers driver their cars.
--
Cy Welch
89 RS 5.0 TBI, its not fast, but its still fun.
67 C10 Shortbed Stepside
"CBHVAC" <in...@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
news:fDJC6.232$gd.1...@eagle.america.net...
G & M Bailey
to me by a friend and I found it to be quite an interesting read... looks
like I've been wasting my money on those Fram DoubleGuard filters for the
last few years...
http://members.nbci.com/minimopar/oilfilters.html
KTR...@webtv.net
over by Honeywell. Dave