Camaros and rain don't mix.

[Patrick Brown]

This is kind of off topic, but I just had to post this. One week ago
today, I totaled my 1995 Camaro on a rain slicked country road. I
hydroplaned going around a curve and ran off the road and into a wooden
fencepost. I came out of the wreck unhurt, save for a small cut to my
left hand, but my Camaro was pretty much destroyed. It's only through
the grace of God and maybe the fact that I was wearing a seatbelt that I
wasn't killed. I know you're probably thinking, "So what dumbass. It's
your own fault." The thing is, I wasn't even driving that fast. If you
have a Camaro/Firebird, please be extra careful is you have to drive
when it is raining. You may not be as lucky as I was. Please share
similar experiences with f-bodies in the rain. Pat Brown

http://community.webtv.net/patbrown/WelcometoPatsPlace

[Black LS1 T/A]

I'm glad you came out ok in your unfortunate accident.

With the set of tires I have on my Pontiac T/A, my car drives as good as any
I've ever driven in the rain...
... I think better than most.

--
************************************************
Michael Buie
betr...@militarybetrayed.com
Visit http://www.militarybetrayed.com to
see how your government allows state
courts to give what amounts to
PERMANENT alimony in the amount of
half your Military Retired Pay.
Some judges have figured out how to
give away ALL your Retired Pay to your
ex-wife or ex-husband. IS IT WORTH IT?

Patrick Brown <patb...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13459-38...@storefull-112.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

[Ritchie D'Alto]

Is this the kind of situation that the traction control option on the TA is
supposed to help with? Or is traction control just for not spinning your
wheels when you get moving from zero?

patb...@webtv.net (Patrick Brown) wrote in <13459-385389BA-93@storefull-
112.iap.bryant.webtv.net>:

[Benjamin Maki]

I've had no such trouble with my '87 Camaro. The most rain will do is let
it get a little squirrelly when I take of and it hit's 2nd. It holds the
corners fine. I do take it easy when it's raining, but that's just common
sense.

This probably was not the first time you ran your car in the rain so
therefore, you should of had a really good idea how it would behave in the
rain. I would mark this one down as simple driver error knowing what I know
about the conditions.

A car is like your girlfriend/wife. Know everything you can about it so you
don't do anything to piss it off and make it bale.

[^*^ VaMpY ^*^]

^*^ ^*^ patb...@webtv.net (Patrick Brown)'s last withered words.. ^*^ ^*^

>;c This is kind of off topic, but I just had to post this. One week ago
>;c today, I totaled my 1995 Camaro on a rain slicked country road. I
>;c hydroplaned going around a curve and ran off the road and into a wooden
>;c fencepost. I came out of the wreck unhurt, save for a small cut to my
>;c left hand, but my Camaro was pretty much destroyed. It's only through
>;c the grace of God and maybe the fact that I was wearing a seatbelt that I
>;c wasn't killed. I know you're probably thinking, "So what dumbass. It's
>;c your own fault." The thing is, I wasn't even driving that fast. If you
>;c have a Camaro/Firebird, please be extra careful is you have to drive
>;c when it is raining. You may not be as lucky as I was. Please share
>;c similar experiences with f-bodies in the rain. Pat Brown

Mine sits there when stopped at a light spinning for a couple seconds when I
*ease* her out.. Mine takes the corners ok when wet, but always have to
becareful. Glad you're ok and sorry about the camaro..

-Damn I should be taking my own advice more. Though I am MUCH more careful on
wet roads.

ŠarkŠesire +'+VaMpY+'+
-'98 Z28 Forest Green
+- Very Distinct -+

'And all who heard should see them there,
And all should cry, Beware! Beware!
His flashing eyes, his floating hair!
Weave a circle around him thrice,
And close your eyes with holy dread,
For he on honey-dew hath fed,
And drunk the milk of Paradise'

[CB]

Something that a lot of folks forget is that the first few minutes of rain
are the most dangerous. This is due to the fact that the oil/antifreeze
residue has not yet been washed away causing EXTREMELY slick spots.

[Kev152]

I did not have a z28, but I did have a 1996 3.8 camaro with the performance
and handling package, and I must also say that my car handled pretty well in
the rain, no problems at all in the 2.5 years I had it.
Of course, I had the 16 inch wheels, but only had the 235/55 tires, so maybe
the narrow tires handle a bit better in the wet conditions.

[Geoff]

yea. if your tires were really wide, that would make the hydroplaning worse
----------
In article <19991212162338...@ng-ba1.aol.com>, kev...@aol.com

[Leann Hoskins]

You could not have hydroplaned unless you were going too fast. Hydroplaning
occurs when a film of water begins to separate the normal contact area of
the tire tread from the roadway. There are three contributing factors to
hydroplaning: water depth, tire pressure, and vehicle speed. Before
hydroplaning can exist, there must be sufficient depth of standing or
flowing water to submerse the tire tread. Normally with good tires one half
inch of water is good enough. Worn tires need very little. Without getting
too technical if your tires were inflated properly and had good tread the
speed at which you would hydroplane is 61MPH. I'm not saying you were
exceeding the posted speed limit, but you were definitely exceeding the safe
speed for conditions. If you didn't truly hydroplane the roadway surface
had a reduced coefficient of friction. Anyone with a brain knows that a
tire does not grip a wet road as well as a dry road. You were going too
fast for the road conditions or your vehicle's tires. Your Camaro is in no
way to blame for your collision. As one who owns and regularly drives a
modified 67RS(350+HP) since 16 and a trained accident investigator, I am
sure of this. When it is wet slow the hell down, no matter what car you are
driving.

[SBM]

Without getting into as much as you did...you left out one thing..contact
area...
Your MPH that you posted means nothing unless you know contact area, total
vehicle weight, weight transfer loads, and it goes on...he could..COULD have
planed' out at 30...and please..dont hand me the techno BS..whats in the
books and what happens in real life dont gel..

Leann Hoskins <BLHo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:831lub$gli$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...

[WingmanEX]

Man, alot of the rain performance is dependant on what tires you have
on the car.... my '96 TA used to be the WORST car I had in the rain
(& snow) when I had Cooper Cobra GTZ's on it (which is a good
performance tire - in the dry). Now that I have Pirelli P7000SS's on
it, the dry performance is down (slid sideways first turnaround I hit
at 50), but the wet performance is much better... Also, someone asked
if Traction control is supposed to help with this... as far as I've
determined (from experiencing it), it's not. TC is just supposed to
help prevent wheelspin...

WingmanEX

[Doug Coil]

I have owned several 4th gens (along with my 2 daughters). We have had
problems with the Z's, and I think that is because of the wider tire (as
earlier technical posts have indicated). I have lost traction on several
occasions that have really surprised me. Now, I and my daughters driver
10-20 mph under the speed limit on roads that have posted speeds of 45 or
more. I don't recall having any problems with the V6 and the associated
smaller tire 'patch'. Glad your OK. Go slow with the wide tires.
Doug Coil

SBM <deb...@netcom.not.for.spam> wrote in message
news:831qqu$r8t$1...@nntp1.atl.mindspring.net...

[Mark Jones]

Ritchie D'Alto <graf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3853cd98$0$80...@news.voyager.net...

>
> Is this the kind of situation that the traction control option on the TA
is
> supposed to help with? Or is traction control just for not spinning your
> wheels when you get moving from zero?

If I get caught out in the rain in my 1994 Corvette,
I turn off my traction control.

A little over a year ago, I was driving down the
interstate doing about 45 mph because of the wet
highway. I hit a little bit of water puddled on the
road and the back of my car started to hydroplane.
Everything was under control until all of the sudden
the back of my car whipped around to the right.

I was in a counterclockwise spin all of the sudden
and I was just along for the ride. As the car went
around, I stood on the brakes as hard as I could to get
the anti-lock brakes to engage. I was already 180
degrees around before I applied the brakes.

The car did a quick 360 degree spin from the slow lane
to the fast lane and I got the car under control and
kept on going. Scared the crap out of me.

The way it happened leads me to believe that the
traction control system got confused by the sudden
loss of traction in the back and applied the brakes
in order to try to help regain traction. I think that
one rear brake must have been on when the back tires
made contact with the pavement. From there, the ride
was on.

I only use the traction control at low speeds now.

Mark Jones

[ONEDRAFTER]

Typically the worst thing you can do is hit your brakes when you lose control.
What you did was take a car the had zero traction (you were sliding sideways),
and instead of gaining control by taking your foot of the gas and steering
correctly you made the situation even worse by using the brakes. When you
"stood" on the brakes you stated that you were 180° around already. At this
point the brakes would not do anything. You were sliding sideways. Brakes don't
work sideways. There is only one thing brakes do to a car that is sliding
sideways "out of control" - make it even more out of control. What you did when
you hit the brakes caused the balance of the car to get worse. The same applies
when you get a blowout. In some instances with a blowout you want to
accelerate.
One day if you ever get the chance in a "controlled situation" try to repeat
what happened. Do it a couple of times, try it with the brakes and without the
brakes and see what the difference is.
Know the limits of your car. I have driven in the rain at speeds over 75 - 90
mph (4:30 in the morning, light traffic) on the 10 fwy. At about 75 with 245-50
tires on my z28 I started to hydroplane and go sideways. I slid an entire lane
width over. Luckily for me there was no one there and I didn't cause an
accident. I guess the bottom line is simple. If your dead, you won't get where
your going so you might as well slow down.

Do at your own risk yadda yadda yadda blah blah

[Kaus...@webtv.net]

Tires make all the difference in the world when it comes to rain. I was
driving on the highway during a heavy rainstorm in my '93 Probe GT.
There was about a 1/2 inch of standing water on the road and I had to
drive at about 35 mph to keep from hydroplaning. At the time I had some
Yokohama's that absolutely sucked in the rain. I was afraid someone
would rearend me. Everyone else was doing 60-65 but my car would
hydroplane every time I approached 40. The Yoko's had plenty of tread
left on them too. And they weren't particularly wide either
(225-50ZR16).

Now I have some Pirelli P8000 Vizzolas that have a wide channel down the
center. The Pirelli's are great in both the dry and the wet. I know
from experience that it is possible to hydroplane even at relatively low
speeds. Slow down in the rain, but be careful not to get run over by
some moron in an SUV doing 70.

Brian
Houston, TX

[C5 Pewter Coupe]

>yea. if your tires were really wide, that would make the hydroplaning worse

try 245 tires in the front and 275 tires in the rear, hydroplaining at 35 mph
one time.. LOL