Ever get a fine for no cat?
Brad
for using test pipes. He said the fine is more like a fix-it ticket.
Say you get pulled over for speeding, the cop looks under the car, sees
a test pipe, and writes you a ticket for a couple thousand dollars.
According to the shop guy, you'd still have 10 days or so to put a cat
on the car. I'm wondering if somebody has any personal experience with
this.
RRLS10
Just get a Cat that's "punched out". Looks like a Cat, it just doesn't have
anything in it.
-Randy
SNOWMAN629
>anything in it.
Hypothetically the "beehive" within a Cat comes out very easily with a chisel
and hammer. Of course you wouldn't do that because it's illegal but it could
be done.
Mike B.
Brad wrote in message <35A8333E...@ix.netcom.com>...
>When talking to an exhaust shop tech I mentioned people getting fines
>for using test pipes. He said the fine is more like a fix-it ticket.
>Say you get pulled over for speeding, the cop looks under the car, sees
>a test pipe, and writes you a ticket for a couple thousand dollars.
>According to the shop guy, you'd still have 10 days or so to put a cat
>on the car. I'm wondering if somebody has any personal experience with
>this.
I don't know where you live, but in MA, I don't think they can give you a
couple of thousand $$ ticket for ANYTHING. I think the "improper equipment"
fine is either $50 or $100.
BTW, I have never had a problem - but in my car, the cats are hidden in the
sidesills (well, they would be if I HAD cats! :)
-Mike B.
RRLS10
Of course...........just keep a spare Cat in the garage for "smog check day".
-Randy
SNOWMAN629
Years ago when I was in Florida the "beehive cone" inside of my cat "fell out".
Now that I am back in Jersey I have to go through inspection. I forgot about
my cat "problem" and went to inspection...it passed and has passed for 3 years
now.
>I don't know where you live, but in MA, I >don't think they can give you a
>couple of thousand $$ ticket for >ANYTHING. I think the "improper >equipment"
I think it is a Federal EPA fine and it's like $10,000 for EACH cat removal (
if your car has more than one ). I don't think the police have anything to do
with giving the ticket ( but I don't know who does ).
Shaman WS6
On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Brad wrote:
> When talking to an exhaust shop tech I mentioned people getting fines
> for using test pipes. He said the fine is more like a fix-it ticket.
> Say you get pulled over for speeding, the cop looks under the car, sees
> a test pipe, and writes you a ticket for a couple thousand dollars.
> According to the shop guy, you'd still have 10 days or so to put a cat
> on the car. I'm wondering if somebody has any personal experience with
> this.
Yes, this is exactly what happened to me with the 2+2.
| Steve's Car Interest Alias - business & personal mail to co...@kos.net SVP |
| 1998 WS6 Formula Firebird, !T-Tops, !SBS, !CAGS, EGR Mod, M6, Bright Red |
| 1998 RX-7 One Lap Team (27th) Home Track: Shannonville SVRA Member #4821 |
| Web Sites: http://www.rumour.com/steve/car/ http://onelap.kos.net/ |
TOSgeneral
>for using test pipes. He said the fine is more like a fix-it ticket.
>Say you get pulled over for speeding, the cop looks under the car, sees
>a test pipe, and writes you a ticket for a couple thousand dollars.
>According to the shop guy, you'd still have 10 days or so to put a cat
>on the car
<snip>
I think this needs further looking into... Did you know not all cars (80's+)
were even designed with catalytic converters??
My Brother and I have owned several 944 Porsche's and guess what? None of
them were manufactured with catalytic converters.
These weren't some bullshit *Gray Market* cars never intended for USA use
either, the 944's simply never had *Cats*
I sure would have been pissed if I got a mega-Buck fine for no Cats!
Mike B.
(
>if your car has more than one ). I don't think the police have anything to
do
>with giving the ticket ( but I don't know who does ).
>fine is either $50 or $100.
I would be screwed, considering my car has 2 of 'em (or HAD). But then
again, I do have these small resonator type things, that LOOK sorta like
cats (the cats just looked like a slightly swelled piece of exhaust). I
also think that it would be REALLY hard to get caught - even if a cop did
find out when you were pulled over, I don't think they could "call the EPA"
or anything. However, $10,000 is pretty damn steep!
I bet the EPA does more work checking the manufacturers to make sure they
are following the rules, and also things like big rig trucks, bus lines,
etc.
Just so long as *I* don't get caught, I'll be happy!
-Mike B.
Jason Ledford
Just so you know these cars were designed to run best with cats. Keep them
on or get a high flow cat. From exp I can tell you that you will lose some
noticeable low end torque if you remove your cat. Also you will have some
nasty drone at highway speeds. Sounds like a rice burner with one of those
coffee can tips. Really the cats don't harm your hp enought to worry about.
Scott
I would agree. Today, when the manufacturers' engineers design an
engine, they engineer the entire package, all the way to the tailpipe.
Some exhaust back-pressure is factored in and necessary for the engine
to perform optimally under all conditions. Changing any part of that
equation is a dicey proposition, at best.
When catalytic converters were first brought out, they were very
restrictive and manufacturers just slapped them on the exhaust without
trying to engineer the engine to perform in concert with them. At that
time, removing a converter (especially with a high-torque V8) would make
a significant increase in a car's performance by reducing exhaust
back-pressure.
However, with today's small low-torque engines and much improved
converter/engine management system technology, reducing exhaust
back-pressure (removing a catalytic converter or muffler) will, in most
cases, hurt performance. Although it will increase horsepower and
torque, it only does it in the upper part of the RPM band and actually
lowers it in the low to mid-range part (where most people regularly
drive).
So, if you drive in the upper part of the RPM band most of the time (as
racers do), removing the converter and reducing back-pressure *would* be
a good thing, but I doubt most people drive like that on the street on a
regular basis.
pauldort
>I think this needs further looking into... Did you know not all cars
(80's+)
>were even designed with catalytic converters??
>My Brother and I have owned several 944 Porsche's and guess what? None of
>them were manufactured with catalytic converters.
Catalytic converters are not required by law in the US, nor have they ever
been. Vehicles sold in the US are required to meet certain tailpipe
emmission requirements. The laws do not state what equipment must be used to
do this.
Catalytic converters are now in widespread use because they are an effective
and relatively inexpensive way to meet emmision requirements. GM first
introduced catalysts on thier 75 models. Honda, for example, did not start
using them until 1981 because they used different technology to control
emmisions and therefore did not need them.
As an aside, the advent of catalysts on the 75 GM cars was a godsend for
driveability. GM cars in general in 73 & 74 were very poor running cars due
to the many "band aid" types of emmision controls used at the time. (And
please hold back on the rebuttals. I said "in general." There were
exceptions such as the Pontiac SD455, but they were just that, exceptions.)
With converters the engineers were able to re tune the cars to run better
and let the catalyst clean up the mess downstream.
The first converters were a "pellet" style, basically a large metal can
filled with BB sized pellets coated with the catalyst material. They were
very restrictive. Later, as performance once again started to become more
important, new designs started appearing, such as the honeycomb style, that
were were much less restrictive.
With these new style of converters there is no real performance advantage in
removing them for the majority of street driven cars. As a matter of fact,
removing them can actually hurt performance on some cars because the
decrease in backpressure can actually throw the engine out of the parameters
that the computer was designed to maintain.
So far as the law is concerned, the EPA does not regulate what you as an
owner does to your personal car. The $10,000 fines being discussed in this
thread refer to the fines that the EPA can levy on a business or repair shop
for tampering with emmision controls. Tampering laws that exist as pertain
to the individual owner are maintained by the indiviual states and often
apply only in large Metro areas.
Paul
Not/Rod
"We have met the enemy and he is us!" - Pogo
ma...@mec.edu
"Mike B." <mi...@mesitech.com> wrote:
>
> Brad wrote in message <35A8333E...@ix.netcom.com>...
> >When talking to an exhaust shop tech I mentioned people getting fines
> >for using test pipes. He said the fine is more like a fix-it ticket.
> >Say you get pulled over for speeding, the cop looks under the car, sees
> >a test pipe, and writes you a ticket for a couple thousand dollars.
> >According to the shop guy, you'd still have 10 days or so to put a cat
> >on the car. I'm wondering if somebody has any personal experience with
> >this.
>
> I don't know where you live, but in MA, I don't think they can give you a
> couple of thousand $$ ticket for ANYTHING. I think the "improper equipment"
> fine is either $50 or $100.
>
> BTW, I have never had a problem - but in my car, the cats are hidden in the
> sidesills (well, they would be if I HAD cats! :)
most cops don't even know what a cat converter looks like, and for routine
traffic stops have you ever seen a cop look underneath a car? Though there
may be exceptions, like if they catch you doing 140MPH in a 55MPH zone
they'll try real hard to find evidence of your crime whether it exists or
not.
--
Matt
ma...@MEC.Edu
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
SNOWMAN629
>traffic stops have you ever seen a cop look underneath a car
My cop buddy told me they aren't even told about stuff like that at his
precinct ( sp? ). He knows about that stuff from when he had his Camaro years
back and when he asked about it during training they said "it's not our job to
enforce that stuff". Smoke from your tailpipe, broken light lenses, and
obvious safety hazards are all they need to worry about.
It's cool to ride with him and pull over a nice car and ask " Are you in a
hurry to get somewhere?" they think they were speeding... then after they so no
he says ' You got a nice car and I just wanted to check it out " I just wish
all cops were cool like that.
Brian C. Davis
I think they should make it mandatory that all cops be gear heads!..
Ahh yeah.. haha..
Brian. Jacksonville, FL
95Z28,A4,3.23,B&M Transpak,K&N Fipk,3in Flowmaster, !TB Coolant
!Maf wing,!EGR,Relo IAT,Airfoil,DKS,Mobil 1,Fan switch
John J Agli
After creating the car I always wanted, I finally got to the point (Last
April) when I needed to think about an exhaust. After speaking to 3 exhaust
shops in my area I discovered an interesting fact.
Here in Rhode Island, If you get exhaust work done to your car, you don't
"have" to have a cat. Here's the catch. If the car goes into the garage
with a converter,... it has to leave with a converter. If the car has had
the converter removed before the car gets into the shop the shop doesn't
have to put one on.
There is no emissions test here in Rhode Island yet either. From what I
understand the Feds are going to begin withholding some of the highway
funding in a few years if the State doesn't impose the emissions test on
it's citizens.
"It's still 'We the people', Right?" Dave Mustane
John in RI
John J Agli
Our (not so popular) Governor just signed emissions legislation today. I
found the news just after writing my fist post to this newsgroup. Oh Well
........
John in RI
Richard 'n Dima
>Jason Ledford wrote:
>> Just so you know these cars were designed to run best with cats. Keep them
>> on or get a high flow cat. From exp I can tell you that you will lose some
>> noticeable low end torque if you remove your cat.
>I would agree. Today, when the manufacturers' engineers design an
>engine, they engineer the entire package, all the way to the tailpipe.
>Some exhaust back-pressure is factored in and necessary for the engine
>to perform optimally under all conditions. Changing any part of that
>equation is a dicey proposition, at best.
I'll second, or third it. It's a fact that you do need *some*
backpressure, or low-end throttle response/torque is adversely
affected. Honestly, go to the track and compare ET's from running a
properly designed cat & muffler system, and from running straight
pipes from the manifolds (or headers). Not to mention the potential
to burn an exhaust valve is higher with less backpressure. The
backpressure creates a scavenging effect on your exhaust port.
Of course your results may vary. We are speaking of the majority of
"everyday driver" semi-hot-rods here, not something that is merely a
strip monster in streetcar clothing. ;)
seeya