Bogus VIN plate on '67 Firebird ragtop?
PH
22337xxxxxxxx, when it should be 22367xxxxxxx. The title is for a
convertible. I've had the car for about 25 years now and had it
titled and registered in 3 states before this one, but it hasn't been
registered yet in NJ since it's in need of an engine rebuild. (I'm
working on it. It's only taken me 15 years to pull the motor out and
pull it apart.)
One cop in PA told me during a traffic stop not to worry about the
discrepancy because the VIN on the car and registration were only off
by one number. I'm wondering if NJ will have a problem with this when
I eventually register it, and if so, what I can do about it. Pontiac
Historical Services will send me a build sheet and all that, but I
need a good VIN or it's useless, right? Is there any other place in
the car that would have the VIN? The cowl body info plate is for a
convertible, but the VIN isn't on that. The car has been way apart a
few times (it was almost a shell when I bought it), and I didn't come
across any paperwork hidden anywhere. Body hasn't been off the frame
since I've had it.
It would feel better to have the car match the title.
Charles Bendig
"PH" <hil...@emailaccount.com> wrote in message
news:9f7b37f0.04081...@posting.google.com...
I'm not sure about 1967 cars, I do know 1968 cars have at least a
partial VIN on the cowl plate.
If you have VIN Numbers that do not match the Title, or the car, you
have serious Issues.
If the Production numbers do not match between the title and VIN,
then you do not have to title to your vehicle. If they do not, your
best coarse of action is not a pleasant one. As it involves turning
all the info and the vehicle over to your state police.
If they do match. It is possible someone did a convertible
conversion on the car. Then someone else put the code on the title out
of error. This sort of thing has happened before. It can be a problem
to get straightened out.
Charles
Bigjfig
>From: "Charles Bendig" rarepar...@yahoo.com
>Date: 8/19/2004 1:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <ZzWUc.23936$cT6....@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
One way to check I believe is this:
If you get a PHS package for the VIN # you know (apparently a coupe) and on
there should be the job #/body #/data from the cowl plate. I think 1967 PHS
information is a little different than 1968 and up.
'68 and up was more geared for "theft prevention", Pontiac started stamping a
hidden VIN # (as Charles stated), started stamping the motor and trans with the
VIN (which are done partially for theft prevention) and such. 1967 wasn't like
that from what I remember. You'll get essentially a manifest card from PHS on a
'67.
You might prove your case if you take your VIN, send it to PHS and see if any
data you get from the packet matches the cowl tag. If a body job # or a
schedule # matches items on the cowl tag, then something may have been in error
at the factory. If the job # on the VIN or other data doesn't match the cowl
tag, you have a tag job.
I would say there is enough data on the cowl tag and the VIN packet you'll get
to reasonably assert or prove doubt.
If the cowl tag shows a green car with a hardtop and option X, Y, Z built in
May of 1967 for instance and the VIN packet contains NONE of those elements, we
are likely talking about two different cars.
Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director
'80 Carousel Red Turbo T/A, 27k orig.
'79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig
'84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 143k and still going....
'91 S10 Blazer 4.3Z
Bill Sohl
1. Just fill out the paperwork using the correct VIN number and
see if they process it without doing a direct "stare and compare"
to the VIN as shown on the title you'll be turning in. I know this
has been done before :-) :-) If they catch the one digit/character
difference, claim it was a typo and revert to #2 below.
2. Fill out and title all the paperwork as per your actual title...no
one looks at the actual VIN plate anyway...especially if the 1967
VIN isn't in plain view on the windscreen post.
Just some thoughts...
"Norm" <xy...@mercurylink.net> wrote in message
news:10ia74a...@corp.supernews.com...
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> Probably, I had to. Or would have but I had an escape hatch and got the
> incorrect# titled. Since I don't plan on selling the car it doesn't
> matter. In your case I'd talk to NJ DMV and find out what they need to
> correct the digit (process may be on their website) and go that route.
> HTH, Norm
> --
> "The web has got me caught. I'd rather have the blues than what I've
> got." <via Nat King Cole>
Charles Bendig
"Bill Sohl" <bill...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:evpVc.4229$2L3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Several alternatives:
>
> 1. Just fill out the paperwork using the correct VIN number and
> see if they process it without doing a direct "stare and compare"
> to the VIN as shown on the title you'll be turning in. I know this
> has been done before :-) :-) If they catch the one digit/character
> difference, claim it was a typo and revert to #2 below.
>
> 2. Fill out and title all the paperwork as per your actual title...no
> one looks at the actual VIN plate anyway...especially if the 1967
> VIN isn't in plain view on the windscreen post.
>
> Just some thoughts...
>
In the state of Ohio, they are supposed to. If you title a car in
Ohio after it has been titled in a different state, you must have what
they call a "State Inspection" Which some car dealers can do, yet the
generial public usually goes to the BMV.
Also in Ohio, if you get pulled over for a traffic voilation, some
officers will run the VIN number on the car. Especially in high crime
area's, no matter whom you are.
Charles
v8z
transfers - if you look at the numpad on your keyboard you'll see that the 6
is right over the three. Its quite possible that the number was altered
during one of the title transfers.
Since you've owned the car for 25 years, and could get several people to
sign affidavits to that effect, you could go to a common pleas Judge and
submit all the info, including a signed statement by you.
I bought a car in PA that had been through two other owners, but not
transferred into their names/states, and never roadworthy during that time.
I had bill of sales from both PO's as well as the last "good" signed titled,
and an Ohio out-of-state inspection showing the VIN to match the old title.
I went the court route since it was my only option short of tracking down
the several previous owners and convincing them to go back and re-register
it in each of their respective states.....
The Judges office held the paperwork for about 5 weeks, during which time
they did a hot vehicle search several times. They called me to come pick up
the bench verdict directing the BMV to issue me a new Ohio title for the
vehicle.
Might be worth investigating in NJ.
"PH" <hil...@emailaccount.com> wrote in message
news:9f7b37f0.04081...@posting.google.com...
BigJo...@mailcity.com
If you hold a Pennsylvania motor vehicle title that was never
officially transferred by a notary or a PennDOT agent to a
subsequent owned, it still officially belongs to the previous
owner no matter how many times it changed hand subsequently. In
PA the owner MUST appear in front of a legal transfer agent, and
prove they are the owner listed on the title and sign the
'Seller' section in the presence of the official and obtain their
seal.. Short of possessing a 'Power of attorney' one can not
legally transfer a Pa title by ANY other manor. Whatever anyone
in a NG may tell you, a Pa title that is signed without the seal
is worthless.
I would suggest you contact PennDOT to determine the owner of
record. They can tell that by the title number. Once you
determine the legal owner of record you can contact them. The
owner of record will need to apply for a duplicate title, the
signed open title you have is no
longer transferable, that can then be properly exchange for a NJ
title. If you can show the actual sale took
place more than six month previously you will not need to pay the
NJ sales tax. You do not need insurance to effect the tittle
transfer but you will need insurance to obtain a license tag.
mike hunt
Bill Sohl
"Charles Bendig" <rarepar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kVoWc.219528$fv....@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
True, but they will run the VIN derived from the vehicle
registration...not the stamped plate that has the VIN on it...especially
if the VIN isn't readily in plain sight (e.g. on a door jam or under
the hood).
Cheers,
Bill
Charles Bendig
A State Inspection, in Ohio involves a visual inspection of the VIN
Plate. No matter where it is located. It also Includes looking at the
fenders, hood, & door.
Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of
location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a marker
lamp out.
This is done to combat auto-theft. Which in the Dayton Ohio area is
rampant.
Charles
Bill Sohl
Good thing about vehicles registered as antique in NJ is NO inspection.
> Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of
> location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a marker
> lamp out.
So if I get stopped driving my 1961 TR3, the cops would have me get
out of my vehicle and open the hood so they can check the VIN #? I've
been stopped in more than a handful of states and never encountered
such a request from the police anytime or anywhere.
> This is done to combat auto-theft. Which in the Dayton Ohio area is
> rampant.
Interesting...but certainly not the norm in most other states/locales that
I am aware of. Your mileage may vary :-)
Cheers,
Bill
G.R. Patterson III
Charles Bendig wrote:
>
> Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of
> location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a marker
> lamp out.
Here in New Jersey, they run the plate number through the hotlist and check it
against the registration card that you carry.
George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.
Charles Bendig
Even when coming in from another state?
> > Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of
> > location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a
marker
> > lamp out.
>
> So if I get stopped driving my 1961 TR3, the cops would have me get
> out of my vehicle and open the hood so they can check the VIN #? I've
> been stopped in more than a handful of states and never encountered
> such a request from the police anytime or anywhere.
>
Depending on the area of the state of Ohio, Yes they will. Far less
likely in a small rural town, then in a larger city, with a high auto
theft rate.
It has happened to me. It has even happened to Bikers I know.
> > This is done to combat auto-theft. Which in the Dayton Ohio area is
> > rampant.
>
> Interesting...but certainly not the norm in most other states/locales that
> I am aware of. Your mileage may vary :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Bill
BTW: the one time I was pulled over in NJ (my brother lives out there),
The officer did run my VIN number. Maybe because I was from out of state,
driving an older van.
Charles
Charles Bendig
"G.R. Patterson III" <grpp...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:412B9A39...@verizon.net...
I never Carry my vehicle registration with me. I always leave it at
home or in the office at work. I leave nothing in my cars to tell a thief
where I live.
In Ohio it is common for thief's to switch license plates every few
hours on a stolen car. If they did not run the VIN they would not catch many
of them.
Charles
Markansas
> Several alternatives:
>
> 1. Just fill out the paperwork using the correct VIN number and
> see if they process it without doing a direct "stare and compare"
> to the VIN as shown on the title you'll be turning in. I know this
> has been done before :-) :-) If they catch the one digit/character
> difference, claim it was a typo and revert to #2 below.
>
> 2. Fill out and title all the paperwork as per your actual title...no
> one looks at the actual VIN plate anyway...especially if the 1967
> VIN isn't in plain view on the windscreen post.
>
> Just some thoughts...
I just bought a 76 Chevrolet Nova in Texas, and brought it to Arkansas....
part of the proceedings to get license plates on a car brought in from out
of Arkansas is that one of the sheriffs deputies had to come out to the
parking lot of the courthouse,and verify that the VIN matched the title.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004
G.R. Patterson III
Charles Bendig wrote:
>
> I never Carry my vehicle registration with me. I always leave it at
> home or in the office at work. I leave nothing in my cars to tell a thief
> where I live.
You are required by law to carry it in New Jersey. I keep mine in my wallet. If you
are stopped, you will have to produce license, registration, and insurance card.
Failure to produce any of them on demand will set you back $100 or so. You will also
have to show up in court to prove that you actually do have the documents. If you
didn't produce one because you don't have one, it gets *real* expensive.
Bill Sohl
>
> "Bill Sohl" <bill...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:xZKWc.10865$2L3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "Charles Bendig" <rarepar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:vUxWc.33501$cT6....@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> > >
> > > "Bill Sohl" <bill...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > > news:EVuWc.1840$Y%3....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > >
> > > A State Inspection, in Ohio involves a visual inspection of the
VIN
> > > Plate. No matter where it is located. It also Includes looking at the
> > > fenders, hood, & door.
> >
> > Good thing about vehicles registered as antique in NJ is NO inspection.
>
> Even when coming in from another state?
IF the vehicle is being registered as antique then there's no
inspection...even
if brought in from another state. Technically the vehicle is supposed to
be "self-inspected" by the owner.
> > > Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of
> > > location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a
> > > marker lamp out.
> >
> > So if I get stopped driving my 1961 TR3, the cops would have me get
> > out of my vehicle and open the hood so they can check the VIN #? I've
> > been stopped in more than a handful of states and never encountered
> > such a request from the police anytime or anywhere.
>
> Depending on the area of the state of Ohio, Yes they will. Far
less
> likely in a small rural town, then in a larger city, with a high auto
> theft rate.
>
> It has happened to me. It has even happened to Bikers I know.
Well bikers have plain view VIN plates...not so almost any vehicle
built prior to 1968/69. That's when the federal law required VIN
number plates to be readable from outside the windshield...most
were then affixed to the driver's winshield frame.
Cheers,
Bill
Bill Sohl
> I never Carry my vehicle registration with me. I always leave it at
> home or in the office at work. I leave nothing in my cars to tell a
thief
> where I live.
If you do NOT have the vehicle registration with you in NJ and a cop
stops you, the fine is $150+ for failure to produce vehicle documentation.
Cheers,
Bill
Bigjfig
>Date: 8/25/2004 6:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <Ci8Xc.3880$Y%3.3...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Unless you have a NJ PBA card (ahem...lol) among other cards in your wallet's
arsenal.
Since you're sympathetic to that guy's pension, he's likely to let you go if
the rest of your P's and Q's are in order :).
G.R. Patterson III
Charles Bendig wrote:
>
> It has happened to me. It has even happened to Bikers I know.
Yet another reason for me to avoid Ohio. My bike ('72 Triumph) has no VIN.
KITT
seems harsh.
-Geno
1985 Blue Camaro 2.8L w/T-tops (148k and going... getting worried)
1988 Blue Firebird Formula 5.0L w/T-tops (For sale for $2,200)
Still looking for an '82-'84 T/A w/T-tops for parts from one
Camaro Cowboy
------ "click pic for stereo system upgrade"
"click pic"
ENTER THE Z24PODS CHATROOM.!!! CLICK HERE NOW...... |
|
St.Louis, Missouri |  |
|
|
DOXIE
say anything tell them u stole it 25 years ago....statuit of
limitations ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
DOXIE
Thought all u REPUBS were honest JESUS FREAKS
VOTE 4 KERRY
Charles Bendig
"DOXIE" <isuc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:niuaj0dljq6bapgdv...@4ax.com...
First of all put the crack pipe down.
Then pull your head out of your ass.
No president, no matter what political party will change anything that
is the fault of local government. Too many idiots blame a president for
acts of congress, or state senates. People that do, have no understanding
of how to fix a problem, and who needs not to be in office.
I don't discuss my politics on-line (rarely in person). If I want a
political debate I can have one in my shop at any time with people more
intelligent then you.
Charles
Refinish King
Tell the bitch Charles!
LOL
Refinish King
"Charles Bendig" <rarepar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:WJqZc.275501$fv.1...@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
PH
with one number off, although PHS guy Jim Mattison says he has never
seen such a mistake. I just bought the PHS info package on the
convertible version of the coupe VIN plate found on the convertible in
my garage (one digit off). There was no coupe made with that serial
number (last 6 digits of the VIN) that year at that plant, according
to PHS. Everything in the PHS packet for the convertible matches
what's left in the car, and matches the body tag, which seems to be
correct. (I can't conclude much based on the engine and trans info
since I bought the car without these.) The original paint, Mayfair
Maize, listed on the convertible billing history, is still in the
nooks and crannies where the painter didn't reach when the car was
repainted red at some point. So I believe I can make a case that the
VIN plate is a mispunched item, if the state asks me when I go to get
it registered.
Thanks for all the help, guys.
big...@aol.com (Bigjfig) wrote in message news:<rt.)
> One way to check I believe is this:
>
> If you get a PHS package for the VIN # you know (apparently a coupe) and on
> there should be the job #/body #/data from the cowl plate. I think 1967 PHS
> information is a little different than 1968 and up.
>>
> You might prove your case if you take your VIN, send it to PHS and see if any
> data you get from the packet matches the cowl tag. I
>
Bigjfig
>Date: 9/18/2004 12:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <9f7b37f0.04091...@posting.google.com>
That gives some credence to the story.
Does the Fisher body job #s on the sheets you got from PHS match the cowl tag?
Does the cowl tag state the vehicle is a convertible or hardtop?
You can easily prove it's a mistake if you have documents that cross-check each
other. That is one reason why this is done.
Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director
PH
> Does the Fisher body job #s on the sheets you got from PHS match the cowl tag?
I don't know where to look for a Fisher body job # on either the PHS
sheets or the cowl tag. What I got from PHS is a 1967 Car Billing
History.
> Does the cowl tag state the vehicle is a convertible or hardtop?
The cowl tag on the car is for a convertible.
Bigjfig
>Message-id: <9f7b37f0.04091...@posting.google.com>
>
>>
The 1967 PHS documents are a little strange and primitive, but do ANY numbers
on either sets of documents match anything on the cowl tag?
The Fisher body job # is usually on the RH side of the cowl tag after the plant
code and data stating the Fisher basic model.
