'68 Camero Charging System Problem
David Bristow
I have a '68 Camero with a 327 (no a/c, no p/s) on a 4-speed.
I make no claim of knowing what I am doing, and I know now I have gone about
troubleshooting this wrong; but anyway...
I have had an ongoing problem with the charging system. After several times
of having to jump the car to get it started, I got into the habit of
disconnecting the negative lead whenever I parked the car. Finally the car
would not start at all; taking the starter out and to the local auto store,
they told me that it was "a bit loose"??, so I bought a new one. It still
wouldn't start. I bought a new battery. Now it starts. Here are my
questions:
1) The Chilton book I have doesn't explain the alternator/regulator tests
very well, but this is what I did: connect a voltmeter between the positive
terminal of the battery and the ground screw of the voltage regulator. For
a minute it showed something like 13v but then dropped to nothing <1v. Does
this mean that the system is not charging?
2) So the above test failing, I am (according to the book) supposed to
adjust the voltage regulator till I see the voltage I want (13+v or
something). But there are not adjusting screws on it! (yes, I removed the
black cover). Could this be the wrong regulator for the car? there are no
markings or numbers on it at all.
3) I also put my voltmeter between the ground of the alternator and the +
battery terminal. This showed 13+v. So this means my alternator is good
right? I also took the alternator out and brought it to the auto store and
they told me it was good.
4) With the engine off, I disconnected the ground cable from the batter and
put a voltmeter between the disconnected cable and the battery. I see 12v.
Does this mean that there is a standing drain on the battery? Could this be
in connection with the voltage regulator problem? or could the drain be
offsetting the charge from the charging system?
Thanx for your help and patience. - db
David Bristow
Ode
engine off and 13.5 to 14.5 with engine running.
Too high when running - check voltage regulator.
Too low when running - check alternator and regulator.
Too low when not running - check a battery.
More below . . .
David Bristow wrote:
> Hi everyone... I need to barrow from your collective knowledge:
>
> I have a '68 Camero with a 327 (no a/c, no p/s) on a 4-speed.
>
> I make no claim of knowing what I am doing, and I know now I have gone about
> troubleshooting this wrong; but anyway...
>
> I have had an ongoing problem with the charging system. After several times
> of having to jump the car to get it started, I got into the habit of
> disconnecting the negative lead whenever I parked the car. Finally the car
> would not start at all; taking the starter out and to the local auto store,
> they told me that it was "a bit loose"??, so I bought a new one. It still
> wouldn't start. I bought a new battery. Now it starts. Here are my
> questions:
> 1) The Chilton book I have doesn't explain the alternator/regulator tests
> very well, but this is what I did: connect a voltmeter between the positive
> terminal of the battery and the ground screw of the voltage regulator.
Ground is ground, this is battery voltage.
> For
> a minute it showed something like 13v but then dropped to nothing <1v.
No voltage between + and ground? You sure you had contact the whole time.
Regulator + to Battery + should be about 1-2 volts with engine running (battery
charging) and should drop as energy spent to starter is recharged. Battery + to
ground should never be < 1 Volt. Think you must have been measuring regulator +
and battery +. When did it measure 13 Volts, before turn on?
> Does
> this mean that the system is not charging?
If it's reaching 13 volts, it's charging.
> 2) So the above test failing, I am (according to the book) supposed to
> adjust the voltage regulator till I see the voltage I want (13+v or
> something). But there are not adjusting screws on it! (yes, I removed the
> black cover). Could this be the wrong regulator for the car? there are no
> markings or numbers on it at all.
> 3) I also put my voltmeter between the ground of the alternator and the +
> battery terminal.
Once again battery voltage.
> This showed 13+v. So this means my alternator is good
> right?
Yes.
> I also took the alternator out and brought it to the auto store and
> they told me it was good.
> 4) With the engine off, I disconnected the ground cable from the batter and
> put a voltmeter between the disconnected cable and the battery. I see 12v.
Fine.
> Does this mean that there is a standing drain on the battery?
Not necessarily. With engine off, disconnect ground cable from battery, place
ammeter between the cable and the battery and measure current being used with
car off (no key in, no door chime, no doors open/lights on, etc. Should be 0 or
way less than a single Amp (several milliamps maybe)).
> Could this be
> in connection with the voltage regulator problem? or could the drain be
> offsetting the charge from the charging system?
>
> Thanx for your help and patience. - db
> David Bristow
Sounds like you just had a bad battery . . .
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Ouderkirk Audio
Oude...@mci2000.com
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To protect from threats both foreign and domestic. Should a
government endeavor fail to meet this goal, it should be eliminated.
The government exists to protect; not to provide, not to serve.
The government should provide nothing but the protection from the
violation of the rights of its people. It is a right to pursue happiness;
it is not a right to have it, nor is it a right to have assistance in
pursuing it." -- S.G. Ouderkirk
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Schwartz
You need to find out if you have a current draw
with the engine off. Take your volt meter and turn it
to the ohm setting. If you don't have this setting, buy
or barrow one. Set it to the max value that can be
read. Disconnect the neg. battery cable. Put the
connectors from your volt meter on the neg battery
terminal and the neg battery wire. See what the current
draw is in ohms. With everything turned off, you should
see no more then .10 max. If you read more then something
is pulling power from the battery and draining it. At that
point start pulling fuses from the fuse block until you find
the current draw drop. I found on my truck that a relay was
staying on and pulling .20 amps and draining the battery. Once
you find what is pulling the current, then you need to isolate it from
the battery when the engine is off. Good luck.
Mike Schwartz
'68 Fleetside
'69 Camaro Coupe
David Bristow wrote:
> 1) For a minute it showed something like 13v but then dropped to nothing
> <1v. Does
> this mean that the system is not charging?
>
> 3) I also put my voltmeter between the ground of the alternator and the +
> battery terminal. This showed 13+v. So this means my alternator is good
> right?
> 4) With the engine off, I disconnected the ground cable from the batter and
> put a voltmeter between the disconnected cable and the battery. I see 12v.
> Does this mean that there is a standing drain on the battery?
>
Gary M. Stegmiller
> You need to find out if you have a current draw
>with the engine off. Take your volt meter and turn it
>to the ohm setting. If you don't have this setting, buy
>or barrow one. Set it to the max value that can be
>read. Disconnect the neg. battery cable. Put the
>connectors from your volt meter on the neg battery
>terminal and the neg battery wire.
Using OHMS in series like this will ZAP your meter.
If you want to measure ohms, disconnect the positive lead and measure
the ohms from this lead to ground on the car. And, stay away from the
battery in ohms position.
Mark Canning
not start after a period of time. The alternator was putting out 14 volts, and
the battery was new (replaced due to this problem) and had >13.5 volts running
about 12.5 volts not running. After about a week the car wouldn't start, after
charging the battery the car would start fine for about a week then the battery
seemed like it was dead again. Turned out it was a bad ground. The little
auxiliary wire connected to the negative terminal of the battery and to the
fender had a bad crimp connection (corrosion inside the fitting). After
cleaning this up and reconnecting it (you do have one don't you) the car hasn't
had the problem since. Check all your braided ground connections between the
frame and firewall (should be at least 2 of them) and the engine block and
frame, make sure the connections at each end of the straps are clean and tight.
The negative cable (what you think would be a good ground connection) is
connected to the engine block but the engine block is isolated from the rest of
the car by the rubber motor mounts and transmission mounts while all the other
electrical components in your car are grounded the body and chassis of the car.
Without these little straps there is no easy way (there is usually a high
resistance path somewhere or nothing would work) for the current used by the
electrical system to return to the battery and the battery will eventually die.
Most electrical problems relating to dead batterys and hard starting in older
cars are related to bad grounds.
David Bristow wrote:
> Hi everyone... I need to barrow from your collective knowledge:
>
> I have a '68 Camero with a 327 (no a/c, no p/s) on a 4-speed.
>
> I make no claim of knowing what I am doing, and I know now I have gone about
> troubleshooting this wrong; but anyway...
>
> I have had an ongoing problem with the charging system. After several times
> of having to jump the car to get it started, I got into the habit of
> disconnecting the negative lead whenever I parked the car. Finally the car
> would not start at all; taking the starter out and to the local auto store,
> they told me that it was "a bit loose"??, so I bought a new one. It still
> wouldn't start. I bought a new battery. Now it starts. Here are my
> questions:
> 1) The Chilton book I have doesn't explain the alternator/regulator tests
> very well, but this is what I did: connect a voltmeter between the positive
> terminal of the battery and the ground screw of the voltage regulator. For
> a minute it showed something like 13v but then dropped to nothing <1v. Does
> this mean that the system is not charging?
> 2) So the above test failing, I am (according to the book) supposed to
> adjust the voltage regulator till I see the voltage I want (13+v or
> something). But there are not adjusting screws on it! (yes, I removed the
> black cover). Could this be the wrong regulator for the car? there are no
> markings or numbers on it at all.
> 3) I also put my voltmeter between the ground of the alternator and the +
> battery terminal. This showed 13+v. So this means my alternator is good
> right? I also took the alternator out and brought it to the auto store and
> they told me it was good.
> 4) With the engine off, I disconnected the ground cable from the batter and
> put a voltmeter between the disconnected cable and the battery. I see 12v.
> Does this mean that there is a standing drain on the battery? Could this be
> in connection with the voltage regulator problem? or could the drain be
> offsetting the charge from the charging system?
>
Mark Canning
falco...@my-dejanews.com
series from the disconnected battery ground and the chassis. A few milliamps
will account for the clock. If there is more than that, start pulling fuses
one-by-one until the meter drops. That will tell you the circuit to further
t/s. Now, that said, since you were already disconnecting the bat neg.
terminal and STILL losing start capability i would suspect the regulator.
-falconfixer-
In article <35C090E1...@ultranet.com>,
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Mark
Anybody know where these ground straps are supposed to be on my '90
Chevy S-10 Blazer. I recently had a new engine put in. I can't find
any ground from the engine at all, and I am having the same
symptoms... just not as bad. Would it be easier to just change the
ground from the battery to hook directly to the chassis instead of the
block? Or is there something else connected to the block that needs a
ground also?
On Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:27:29 -0700, Mark Canning <m...@ultranet.com>
Gary Glaenzer
Lighter wire from battery negative should go to body ground.
For insurance, run a separate wire from engine ground to body (#10 or
larger).
Gary in Jacksonville, IL; where Cruise Night is September 26th this year.
............................................................................
.................................
"somebody tried to explain it to me once, but it was just so much phlogiston
to me. You pays your money and you takes your frame of reference."
.......Joe Haldeman, 'The Forever War'
Mark wrote in message <35c0dd87...@news.uwf.edu>...
Ronald Kinner
>
> Anybody know where these ground straps are supposed to be on my '90
> Chevy S-10 Blazer. I recently had a new engine put in. I can't find
> any ground from the engine at all, and I am having the same
> symptoms... just not as bad. Would it be easier to just change the
> ground from the battery to hook directly to the chassis instead of the
> block? Or is there something else connected to the block that needs a
> ground also?
>
If I remember correctly the big black wire from the battery had a tap on
its way to the engine. The tap was screwed down to the fender.
However, that was not the problem on my step-son's Blazer. Look under
the dash on the driver's side over toward the side of the car and you
will find a bolt holding a couple of black wires to the frame. This
bolt was loose and causing all sorts of strange problems. I took it
loose and sanded the rust away and tightened it up good and all of the
problems went away. This appears to be a standard GM practice since my
81 Citation had the same bolt and it got loose on it too.
Ron
John McCann
There is a ground strap going from the engine block to the firewall on
most cars that I have owned, it is a braided copper wire, there is usually
an extra wire going from the ground terminal of the battery to the fender
well. The reason the negative battery cable goes to the block and the
positive terminal goes to the starter solenoid is to provide the starter
with the best possible path for the current to flow. Your starter pulls a
couple hundred amps when starting your engine and needs the large battery
cables to carry the load.
Your battery drain problem is probably caused by a bad voltage
regulator, there is a reverse current cutout in the regulator that goes bad
and then allows the battery to drain when the engine is not running, it is
designed to connect the alternator to the battery when the output of the
alternator is greater than the battery voltage and disconnect it when the
output drops below it to prevent battery drain through the alternator.
Mark wrote in message <35c0dd87...@news.uwf.edu>...
>
James Acosta
zwa...@tacos.caltech.edu
Dave:
I feel terrible to be the one to break this to you, but your problem
sounds like the fatal "Camaroitis" condition... There seems to be no cure,
but I'll take it off your hands for $100. (what I could get from
salvaging it...)
BIG ;-)
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Member, "Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy"
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