5w-30 or 10W-60 in an M54 @ 140 000 km now ?
frischmoutt
Until mid 2008, my BMW dealer used to put Castrol oil (SAE 5W30 LL04) in
my Z3 (M54 Engine).
Before last November, BMW rationalized their stocks, restricting the
varieties.
At the last Oil Service, they put a thinner oil, rebranded "Original BMW
Quality Longlife-04 SAE 5W-30", made in Germany exclusively for BMW AG...
Basically it's the same quality level but more fluid in hot temps.
The result is that the oil consumption increased from 0.32 to 0.57 l/1000 km
(when new it was 0.28 l/1000). Although the car had 132 000 km on it,
immediately after the oil service, It began to burn oil. Now, the black
deposit at the exhaust is quite solid, barely hard to be removed.
Appearently no leak, at least no stain on the garage floor tiles.
I always had a rather high oil consumption with my different BMWs, mainly
because I'm heavily using engine braking but it's not the reason of the
sudden increase. I suspect that the viscosity of this new oil is the first
thing to focus on.
The questions are:
- Although BMW doesn't recommends 10W-60 (reserved to the M3s), does anybody
have feedback using this grade in his M54 ?
- Besides the price effect on the wallet thickness, what would be the
drawbacks, especially at very low temperatures (0�c) ? Uh! I'm living on the
French Riviera ;-)
Thanks for your help.
Scott Dorsey
>
>Until mid 2008, my BMW dealer used to put Castrol oil (SAE 5W30 LL04) in
>my Z3 (M54 Engine).
>Before last November, BMW rationalized their stocks, restricting the
>varieties.
>At the last Oil Service, they put a thinner oil, rebranded "Original BMW
>Quality Longlife-04 SAE 5W-30", made in Germany exclusively for BMW AG...
>Basically it's the same quality level but more fluid in hot temps.
If it's 5W-30, it's 5W-30. It _has_ to meet a specific viscosity curve
and the temperature at the two points in the curve _have_ to be the same.
So it's not really thinner oil, although the base oil might be thinner.
>The result is that the oil consumption increased from 0.32 to 0.57 l/1000 km
>(when new it was 0.28 l/1000). Although the car had 132 000 km on it,
>immediately after the oil service, It began to burn oil. Now, the black
>deposit at the exhaust is quite solid, barely hard to be removed.
>Appearently no leak, at least no stain on the garage floor tiles.
>I always had a rather high oil consumption with my different BMWs, mainly
>because I'm heavily using engine braking but it's not the reason of the
>sudden increase. I suspect that the viscosity of this new oil is the first
>thing to focus on.
The viscosity is the same as of the old oil.
>The questions are:
>- Although BMW doesn't recommends 10W-60 (reserved to the M3s), does anybody
>have feedback using this grade in his M54 ?
>- Besides the price effect on the wallet thickness, what would be the
>drawbacks, especially at very low temperatures (0�c) ? Uh! I'm living on the
>French Riviera ;-)
Why not try using the Castrol LL04 again? Get a case of it, take it to the
dealer, ask him to use it when he changes the oil. He should give a
substantial discount for letting you provide the oil yourself.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
frischmoutt
"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
i9nfj0$m2n$1...@panix2.panix.com...
Sooo sorry !
Reading your reply, I just realized my mistake. It was 5W-40 until mid-2009
then it has been replaced by 5W-30.
My first attempts to find the Castrol not being successful, my idea was to
stick with BMW homologated oils. Hence my question.
Regards
bfd
> "Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
10W-60. The cost is substantially different. At this particular
dealers the 5W-30 sells for $5.43/quart. The 10W-60 is $11.00:
If you do a search, you'll find that Advance Auto Parts has 5w-30 syn.
oil for about $7/qt; 5w-40 for about $8/qt. Good Luck!
Floyd Rogers
"frischmoutt" <frisc...@ici.com> wrote in message
news:4cc0a687$0$32440$ba4a...@reader.news.orange.fr...
> Reading your reply, I just realized my mistake. It was 5W-40 until
> mid-2009
> then it has been replaced by 5W-30.
>
> My first attempts to find the Castrol not being successful, my idea was to
> stick with BMW homologated oils. Hence my question.
In North America (most of us here), BMW uses LL-01 oils - the low ash LL-04
is restricted to diesels. Something to do with pollution equipment and
possibly gas formulations/additives.
If you look on the BMWNA website, you can find a list of the LL-01 oils they
specify. The one many people use is Mobil 1 0W-40, which might well meet
your needs. The LL-04 oils are very hard to find in the US.
You should Google for LL-01 and LL-04 oils at EU retailers. Note that LL-01
is equivalent to the European ACEA A3/B3, and LL-04 is ACEA A3/B3/C4, which
you can also search for.
Scott Dorsey
>
>Reading your reply, I just realized my mistake. It was 5W-40 until mid-2009
>then it has been replaced by 5W-30.
If that is the case then you may encounter higher oil consumption at higher
temperatures but not lower ones.
You may also want to just do a basic check on engine seals too, if you
are leaking that much oil. If you have valve guide seals or VANOS seals
going bad, they will just get worse. If you have enough oil consumption
that your plugs are fouling, it's probably something you want to check
before it gets worse.
>My first attempts to find the Castrol not being successful, my idea was to
>stick with BMW homologated oils. Hence my question.
The issues in the US are all different than they are out there. Here,
most of the Castrol Syntec oils are different (and cheaper) formulations
that can't be sold as synthetic in Europe. The _exception_ is the 10W-40
which does actually meet current BMW standards. So here we have the opposite
issue, with people substituting the 10W40 for whatever was originally
specified.
Call your local Castrol automotive rep at 0 33 (0) 134 227 600 and ask
them where you can get the stuff in your town.
frischmoutt
"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> a �crit dans le message de news:
ia4427$dro$1...@panix2.panix.com...
First, thanks a lot to all who replied.
About the leaks, I'd easily agree with piston rings or valve seals going bad
but I barely understand how vanos seals, except external oil leak, which is
not the case, might be considered. May you provide a little bit more
information ?
Thanks for the phone number.
Regards
Pete
"Scott Dorsey" wrote
> The issues in the US are all different than they are out there. Here,
> most of the Castrol Syntec oils are different (and cheaper)
> formulations
> that can't be sold as synthetic in Europe. The _exception_ is the
> 10W-40
> which does actually meet current BMW standards. So here we have the
> opposite
> issue, with people substituting the 10W40 for whatever was originally
> specified.
Castrol Syntec 10w-40 in the US does not carry any BMW certifications,
although it does carry ACEA A3 rating, on which the BMW spec is loosely
based.
Castrol Syntec 5w-40 carries BMW LL-98 spec.
Castroly Syntec 0w-30 carries BMW LL-01 spec. Syntec 0w-30 is actually
made in Germany and is the equivalent of the European Edge 0w-30, which
means it is a different (better) formulation than all the other Syntec
grades.
Pete
Pete
"frischmoutt"
> About the leaks, I'd easily agree with piston rings or valve seals
> going bad
> but I barely understand how vanos seals, except external oil leak,
> which is
> not the case, might be considered. May you provide a little bit more
> information ?
Here is some reading about VANOS seals going bad as well as the whole
replacement procedure, but as far as I know, failing VANOS seals don't
result in increased oil consumption...
One thing that can lead to excessive oil consumption is a clogged up CCV
(crank case ventilation/oil separator). These things tend to clog up
relatively easily. If you haven't had yours replaced, I'd say look into
it.
As far as what oil to use, I'd look into any 5w-40 oil that meets LL-01
spec... there's quite a few of them out there. Lubro Moly (Liqui Moly),
Pentosin, Mobil1, just to name a few.
Pete
Scott Dorsey
>"Scott Dorsey" wrote
>> The issues in the US are all different than they are out there. Here,
>> most of the Castrol Syntec oils are different (and cheaper)
>> formulations
>> that can't be sold as synthetic in Europe. The _exception_ is the
>> 10W-40
>> which does actually meet current BMW standards. So here we have the
>> opposite
>> issue, with people substituting the 10W40 for whatever was originally
>> specified.
>
>Castrol Syntec 10w-40 in the US does not carry any BMW certifications,
>although it does carry ACEA A3 rating, on which the BMW spec is loosely
>based.
>
>Castrol Syntec 5w-40 carries BMW LL-98 spec.
You are correct. Sorry, my typo.
>Castroly Syntec 0w-30 carries BMW LL-01 spec. Syntec 0w-30 is actually
>made in Germany and is the equivalent of the European Edge 0w-30, which
>means it is a different (better) formulation than all the other Syntec
>grades.
Hmm... my FLAPS doesn't even have that stuff in their book. Is it available
from the US distributors?
frischmoutt
I throughly read all the information that you guys provided the past days
and followed your recommendations.
I read about the breather valve on a forum (I think that it's the same as
you're speaking about), it's connected to the base of the oil gauge tube.
The guy said that he replaced it (and a procedure is provided) withourt any
major improvement. Of course it's not a reference !
For the moment I didn't consider it since the oil consumption increase
coincidates with the new oil service made with 5W-30 and the work needing to
be performed is rather consequent.
I'll do it in a second attempt if the oil consumption doesn't get back
within the rails.
I've numerous figures to compare to because I'm a kind of paranoid,
monitoring oil consumption since 0 km.
Concerning the oil, I definately abandoned the idea to use 10W-60. I did a
search on google and found several possibilities for 0W-40 & 5W-40..
Considering some facts, and as already pointed out in a previous message you
sent, I'm wondering if LL-04 is really necessary: The car has been built in
Aug. 2001, it's not a diesel, in consequence, I may assume that LL-01 grade
could be used, although today BMW specifies LL-04. LL-04 has been developped
for diesels engines and may also be used in gas engines. LL-01 satisfies
current BMW's needs. So, the reply looks to be "No".
OTOH, in 2007/2008 the BMW dealer even put 5W-40 Labo Carat and in
2008/2009, 5W-40 Castrol TXT Softec that both were LL98 specified !
Mobil-1 0W-40 looks to be a good deal, however my fear concerns the
hydraulic tappets that might get noisy until the engine is warm enough. For
an analog reason (clearances due to wearing) I also fear a loss of oil
pressure in cold.
=> Any advise please ?
I had this issue with my old E30 (180000 km), I tried all sorts of
oils/viscosities and did not manage to cure it. Not worth to replace the
tappets, I left them clicking until I sold it.
For Floyd's information, about the LL-04 oil in the US, I read that it has
some bad reaction with the ethanol and may causes problems. For this reason
BMW wouldn't recommend it outside Europe
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1422995
Best regards
David
> Castroly Syntec 0w-30 carries BMW LL-01 spec. Syntec 0w-30 is actually
> made in Germany and is the equivalent of the European Edge 0w-30, which
> means it is a different (better) formulation than all the other Syntec
> grades.
>
> Pete
>
>
I was told that Castrol Edge was the retail name of the bulk supplied
Castrol SLX III.
Regards
David
Dave Plowman (News)
David <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> I was told that Castrol Edge was the retail name of the bulk supplied
> Castrol SLX III.
You can't rely on any name. Just the actual spec. The name - like Syntec
or whatever can apply to many different specs over time. Think Mobil 1.
--
*I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Pete
"Scott Dorsey" wrote
>>Castroly Syntec 0w-30 carries BMW LL-01 spec. Syntec 0w-30 is
>>actually
>>made in Germany and is the equivalent of the European Edge 0w-30,
>>which
>>means it is a different (better) formulation than all the other Syntec
>>grades.
>
> Hmm... my FLAPS doesn't even have that stuff in their book. Is it
> available
> from the US distributors?
> --scott
In the US, Syntec 0w-30 (Made in Germany) is only sold at AutoZone and
PepBoys, as far as I know. If you're near Canada, Canadian Wal-Marts
carry it, too.
Pete
Pete
"frischmoutt" wrote
> Mobil-1 0W-40 looks to be a good deal, however my fear concerns the
> hydraulic tappets that might get noisy until the engine is warm
> enough. For
> an analog reason (clearances due to wearing) I also fear a loss of oil
> pressure in cold.
> => Any advise please ?
If you don't like M1 0w-40, and since you're in France, why not give
Motul a try? Their 8100 X-cess 5w-40 should work well in your
application.
Pete
David
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:516f93d...@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <ian3qk$qge$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
> David <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> I was told that Castrol Edge was the retail name of the bulk supplied
>> Castrol SLX III.
>
> You can't rely on any name. Just the actual spec. The name - like Syntec
> or whatever can apply to many different specs over time. Think Mobil 1.
Or even GTX. ;-)
>
> --
> *I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder *
>
> Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.
I had an Audi that used dealer supplied SLX LongLife, but could not use SLX
LongLife II, and when the dealer started using SLX III, I emailed Castrol
for the specs.
They replied something like 'SLX III is available retail as Edge'.
Confusingly, there are more flavours now.
regards
David
Dave Plowman (News)
David <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > You can't rely on any name. Just the actual spec. The name - like
> > Syntec or whatever can apply to many different specs over time. Think
> > Mobil 1.
> Or even GTX. ;-)
> I had an Audi that used dealer supplied SLX LongLife, but could not use
> SLX LongLife II, and when the dealer started using SLX III, I emailed
> Castrol for the specs. They replied something like 'SLX III is
> available retail as Edge'.
> Confusingly, there are more flavours now.
Indeed. I've seen different versions of Magnatec (same viscosity) on the
shelves of Halfords at the same time and the same price.
--
*Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now *
frischmoutt
"Pete" <non...@nodomain.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
ianqjt$sff$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Sorry, probably a misunderstanding due to the language.
I said that M1 0W40 was on the top of my selection.
however, prior to using it I need to get advices concerning the potential
draining of the hydraulic tappets after several hours (days) of rest.
Best regards
David
Really ??
No wonder there is so much confusion around which oil to use...
How about this, in 2004 I bought a 320d SE that was two years old. The
handbook stated that the oil in the engine must meet BMW LL-01, the same as
in their six cylinder petrols, but the viscosity was not as important as
meeting BMW LL-01.
The book also stated that the four cylinder petrols (valvetronic), must only
use oils meeting BMW LL-01 FE spec, and the two were not interchangeable.
Now, though, all those engines can use BMW LL-04 spec oils.
I tried Magnatec a few years ago, the additive package was exhausted after
about 3,000 miles or 7 months ish. I liked the idea of the oil molecules
clinging onto the surfaces. Whether it did or not I don't know.
BTW, a while back, Mr. Plowman, you were asking about a set of oil seals for
your 528(?) and there was one that you didn't know where it went. I was
wondering if it could have been for the oil filler cap as the seal ?
Regards
David
Dave Plowman (News)
David <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> BTW, a while back, Mr. Plowman, you were asking about a set of oil seals
> for your 528(?) and there was one that you didn't know where it went. I
> was wondering if it could have been for the oil filler cap as the seal ?
Ah. Didn't think of that. But it was the sort of seal that goes on a shaft
of some sort - rather like the sort between crank pulley and front cover.
But not so large.
--
*The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist