325xi or 330xi in Snow
Sean Barclay
the 330xi. I need honest opinions on the cars ability in the snow. I
realize that the cars are AWD but are they good in snow? Any help would be
great.
Vlad
the time to order something. Although the winters haven't been so bad of
late (here in Nebraska) I would like AWD for those days like today (I'm
working from home - 7 inches and counting).
I test drove a 325i & a 330i at the dealer (they had no xi's) and could
really feel the difference. I guess for me it will come down to the $$$.
Either a fully loaded 325xi or not so loaded 330xi. Haven't gone in to
negotiate yet.... but I was pleasantly surprise to hear from my insurance
guy that the 330xi is only $8 more a month vs the 325xi.
Good luck!
Vlad
"Sean Barclay" <ksba...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:OertbloqBHA.1344@cpimsnntpa03...
Michael B. LaChance
sport package standard tires. The only problem is that the ground clearance
isn't as high as my SUV so blasting through the snow plowed onto the end of
the driveway from the street isn't feasible.
Mike
"Vlad" <vl...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Rih68.4961$mR5.1...@news2.east.cox.net...
zzxxyy
Sean Barclay <ksba...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:OertbloqBHA.1344@cpimsnntpa03...
Sean Barclay
"zzxxyy" <sp...@lite.com> wrote in message
news:y7l68.64571$d16.12...@typhoon.nyc.rr.com...
jim2101024
snowstorm without any problem. This was on a highway so I really didn't
have an opportunity to push the limits of its traction.
One thing you may watch out for: where there is snow, there may be potholes.
The 330xi comes with low profile tires which are quite vulnerable to
potholes, and the 200 extra pounds of the AWD doesn't help. I have had to
replace two tires (bubbles on the sidewall) and I have only owned the car
for only 2.5 months (Massachusetts, in case you are wondering). The dealer
recommended I purchase an additional set of snow tires, even though the
330xi is an AWD that comes with "all weather" tires. Unfortunately, (1)
this may not help the pothole vulnerability problem and (2) if I had known
this before purchase I would have gotten *no* AWD and purchased additional
winter tires instead (or perhaps a Lexus IS300).
It seems to me a contradiction to market an AWD car with such a vulnerable
wheel/tire combination, especially when the TV ads have it ripping up a
snowy hill. Yes, yes, I know: BMW is a car designed all about performance,
and they make certain tradeoffs to keep the performance. However, if BMW
continues to market their car as a mainstream AWD vehicle, don't be
surprised when people get pissed of when they aren't rugged enough to handle
potholes that often come with the snow.
You will notice that other cars in the AWD category have either lower
weight, more sidewall, or (typically) both. I think that BMW should offer a
no cost option for a 16.5 inch wheel and tires with larger sidewalls (the
Lexus IS300 now does this, and they also reimburse for tires with sidewall
bubbles.
jim
Sean Barclay <ksba...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:OertbloqBHA.1344@cpimsnntpa03...
Larry Edelstein
Out of curiousity (since I'm shopping for a car), which AWD cars have either
lower weight, more sidewall, or both?
Larry
daytripper
wrote:
AWD /= ATV - or even SUV.
I also live in Massachusetts. We thank you for not pushing the limits of
traction during intense snowstorms ;-)
Do you think a 16.5" wheel and slightly higher profile rubber will be that
much of an improvement vs the 17" OEM wheels? If I was going to bother, I'd go
to 16" wheels at least.
You're upset about potholes in January?!? You ain't seen *nothing* yet!
/daytripper (You'll be suicidal by March! ;-)
'00 S4 6spd
Ken Freeman
keep the air pressure up, rather than let it drop. I have to check the
pressure about weekly.
"jim2101024" <jim21...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:eAn68.3460$KA4.1...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
Nicholas S. Rubenstein
course).
I run the front wheels at 40PSI and the rear wheels at 35. (Try this
people, you will be amazed at how much better the car feels)
I certainly don't try to go through potholes, but after six months in the
Washington, DC area...
If you really want lower profile tires and lower weight, buy a WRX. The
handling is incredible. I'm reasonably happy with my Bimmer, though. Aside
from the size of the engine. The 2.5 is really a bit underpowered in the
xiT. Sadly, BMWNA doesn't feel that wagon drivers (with the heaviest cars)
deserve a larger engine.
Nick
"Ken Freeman" <kenfr...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:u5l4c9c...@corp.supernews.com...
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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Kali
2002 11:58:50 -0700, Sean Barclay says...
:I currently have a 1999 323i and was looking at getting either the 325xi or
:the 330xi. I need honest opinions on the cars ability in the snow. I
:realize that the cars are AWD but are they good in snow? Any help would be
:great.
I have the 325ix w/premium, sport, and winter packages. It has
part-time AWD, which I became aware of yesterday for the first
time (second winter). In blinding snow, I missed a turn-off
and drove down into a 10-15 ft ditch in brush covered by a
foot of snow. The angle was steep, perhaps 70+ degrees or so.
I backed up and drove right up out of there on the 6th try,
after having carved a path for the tires in the snow. I saw
the AWD light go on as I was ascending up the hill, and it was
extremely powerful; I got nearly 3/4 of the way up the hill on
the first try. I couldn't believe I could maneuver at all in
that situation-- I have a 1995 318is that would have just
gotten stuck and required towing. I have the standard radial
tires, which are good, but nothing to write home about.
I am thrilled with my 325ix; even more so after yesterday. The
part-time AWD goes on only when you need it, which saves gas.
In rain and "normal" slick conditions I feel safe and in
control, even w/o the AWD.
Kali
Spiegs
but better than that, it drives pretty much like my rear wheel drive 325is
did when it isn't slippery
I'm still using all season rubber this winter and the only concern is being
extra careful stopping
( this goes without saying when ever it's slippery and any rubber )
I know next winter with winter rubber it will be even better
( i would never attempt all season rubber without AWD - i have always used
snows )
"Kali" <Ka...@Lart.com.hate.spam> wrote in message
news:MPG.16c45a6b5...@news.earthlink.net...
C.R. Krieger
news:eAn68.3460$KA4.1...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
>
potholes.
> The 330xi comes with low profile tires which are quite vulnerable to
dealer
> recommended I purchase an additional set of snow tires, even though
the
> 330xi is an AWD that comes with "all weather" tires.
Call 'our guy' Noah at Tire Rack and ask about a 'Minus One' snow tire
fitment. That would be steel wheels one inch *smaller* in diameter with
actual *snow tires* a commensurate inch (more or less) larger in
profile. This gives you exactly what you're looking for to fend off
nasty potholes. In the event that one overcomes even this, you're out
$40 for one of those cheap steel wheels instead of $$$ for a bent or
broken alloy.
You can do the research in advance at www.tirerack.com if you'd like,
but ordering is faster if you call toll free - and he might have a
better deal or recommendation on hand.
--
C.R. Krieger
"Don't argue with 'em, dear; they're beneath our dignity." - W.C. Fields
email spammers can bite me
-> The 330xi comes with low profile tires which are quite vulnerable to
> potholes, and the 200 extra pounds of the AWD doesn't help. I have had
to
> replace two tires (bubbles on the sidewall) and I have only owned the
car
> for only 2.5 months (Massachusetts, in case you are wondering).
As a long-time Mass resident, longer-time car nut and current 740iL owner
(with separate wheels/snows) let me just say this:
The best thing you can possibly do for your car, wheels, and safety is to
purchase a separate set of wheels and snow tires during the winter. Get
over the fact you learned the hard way and make the change *now*. I don't
care if you have AWD or not - your traction is ultimately only as good as
your tires and common sense should have told you that not only are low
profile "all season" tires lousy in the snow, they are vulnerable to
potholes.
Find someone (usually in the south or west) selling regular 3-series rims
and tires, buy them, take off their tires and sell them (if they are new
enough) and put snows on. Keep your expensive low-profile wheels and tires
in the basement until spring.
CD
daytripper
[snipped]
>I am thrilled with my 325ix; even more so after yesterday. The
>part-time AWD goes on only when you need it, which saves gas.
>In rain and "normal" slick conditions I feel safe and in
>control, even w/o the AWD.
"part time AWD" on the xi? I don't think so.
I could easily be wrong, but I believe it's actually a full-time AWD system
that has the normal torque distribution biased toward the rear wheels (30/70
front/rear, iirc).
Unknown
>Get over the fact you learned the hard way and make the change *now*.
> - your traction is ultimately only as good as
>your tires and common sense should have told you that not only are low
>profile "all season" tires lousy in the snow, they are vulnerable to
>potholes.
But. . .but. . but, that is *common sense.*
Colin
Looker DC
I have not encountered anything like this!
Thomas A. Korth
"Nicholas S. Rubenstein" <nrube...@nrubenstein.com> wrote in message
news:3c5a9...@Usenet.com...
> I have no trouble whatsoever with the 17" rims on my 325xiT (5 speed, of
> course).
> I run the front wheels at 40PSI and the rear wheels at 35. (Try this
> people, you will be amazed at how much better the car feels)
>
> I certainly don't try to go through potholes, but after six months in the
> Washington, DC area...
>
>
Sounds to me that you've been lucky so far - but you might want to avoid
from New Hampshire Ave., NW, between Blair Rd. & the district line. This
stretch was responsible for dents in 3 of the 17" "sport" alloys on my '99
328i!
Tom
Unknown
>How fast are you going over potholes?
>
>I have not encountered anything like this!
Well, personally, I drive around potholes.
Colin
Neil Williams
probably the traction control light, or one of the other
alphabet-soup lights indicating that the system was
applying the brake(s) to a slipping tire(s).
--Neil
"daytripper" <day_t...@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:plil5uc2qsfnqubpv...@4ax.com...
jim2101024
> Well, personally, I drive around potholes.
> Colin
If we are all as skillful as you, road crews wouldn't even need to fix
them...
jim2101024
Larry Edelstein <lse...@us.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:3C5A0FAD...@us.ibm.com...
> Jim,
>
> Out of curiousity (since I'm shopping for a car), which AWD cars have
either
> lower weight, more sidewall, or both?
>
> Larry
For example, the Subaru WRX sedan has 205/55R16 tires. This is 10% more
sidewall than the 330xi. Its weight is 3085 lbs, which is about 10% less
than the 330xi. You can look up the others...
jim2101024
> daytripper <day_t...@REMOVEyahoo.com>
> AWD /= ATV - or even SUV.
I assume you mean '!=' ? Still, I think that when you feature an AWD car,
which sacrifices 0.5 sec in the 0-60 and stands about 2" higher, there's an
implicit assumption of a little more durability.
>
> Do you think a 16.5" wheel and slightly higher profile rubber will be that
> much of an improvement vs the 17" OEM wheels? If I was going to bother,
I'd go
> to 16" wheels at least.
I haven't made my decision yet...
>
> You're upset about potholes in January?!? You ain't seen *nothing* yet!
>
It's not the potholes that bother me. I have been hitting potholes in
Pittsburgh (not as bad climate as Mass, but they take their time filling
them ;-) and never bumped into this issue before.
jim
jim2101024
you
> keep the air pressure up, rather than let it drop. I have to check the
> pressure about weekly.
This is my current solution. Some say the only downside is a harsher ride,
others consider it a no-no.
-jim
jim2101024
Indeed, it is such common sense that there is no mention of this issue in
the BMW website, my owner's manual, nor are there any BMW recommendation of
approved "-1" wheel/tire combinations.
Oddly enough though, there are instructions on how to turn on the radio.
Kali
stability control. Uh... thank you. :)
Kali
In article <WnJ68.6919$Xk4.3...@news1.east.cox.net>, posted
Sat, 02 Feb 2002 03:52:22 GMT, Neil Williams says...
:Right. The light that Kali thought was the AWD light was
:
:
:
Unknown
" Caution- this beverage may be hot" says it right on the plastic lid
you put on your styrofoam cup of hot coffee you just poured.
What silly ass lawsuit gave us that mandated warning?
" Do not use your new hair dryer in the shower "
'kay.
Now. When driving your 3000 lb car in the Northeast U.S. in winter on
roads that have been subject to innumerable freeze/thaws
and snow plow blades and overloaded trucks with municipal budgets
that seem to be inadequate even during the greatest expansion of
wealth this country has ever seen, you might want to consider the laws
of physics which tend to point out that a 50 series sidewall has
little chance of absorbing the tons of force generated by bashing into
potholes that have been documented in their ability to rip the axles
off a Greyhound. So put on your steel wheel/winter tire combo.
The pothole will not have a caution label.
Your owner's manual, whose thickness is proportional to the legalese
idiocy of the nation in which the vehicle is sold, cannot spell out
every exigency that may come your way.
Colin
( and I did trash an alloy on my old Passat on a pothole,
so unfortunately I learned the hard way also. : ))
dizz
wrote:
>Yes-- I just had another look at that... It was the dynamic
>stability control. Uh... thank you. :)
It probably doesn't come on very often with your AWD car. Those of us
with rear-drive see it blinking a LOT on a snowy day....
dizz
<war...@lakefieldDOT.net> wrote:
>Call 'our guy' Noah at Tire Rack and ask about a 'Minus One' snow tire
>fitment. That would be steel wheels one inch *smaller* in diameter with
>actual *snow tires* a commensurate inch (more or less) larger in
>profile. This gives you exactly what you're looking for to fend off
>nasty potholes.
But I've read that you cannot put 16" wheels on a 330i due to lack of
brake clearance??
JRE
However they do list one 16" wheel on their website that is supposed to fit.
I don't know whether it's there by accident or whether the wheel has a larger
ID than normal for a 16" wheel.
JRE
floyd rogers
> I have a 330xi and have successfully drove through quite an intense
> snowstorm without any problem. This was on a highway so I really didn't
> have an opportunity to push the limits of its traction.
>
> One thing you may watch out for: where there is snow, there may be
potholes.
> The 330xi comes with low profile tires which are quite vulnerable to
> potholes, and the 200 extra pounds of the AWD doesn't help. I have had to
> replace two tires (bubbles on the sidewall) and I have only owned the car
> for only 2.5 months (Massachusetts, in case you are wondering). The
dealer
> recommended I purchase an additional set of snow tires, even though the
> 330xi is an AWD that comes with "all weather" tires. Unfortunately, (1)
> this may not help the pothole vulnerability problem and (2) if I had known
> this before purchase I would have gotten *no* AWD and purchased additional
> winter tires instead (or perhaps a Lexus IS300).
Although I haven't done any damage to my 330xi's tires/rims, I have noticed
that potholes can unsettle the car, apparently due to it's heavier front
end.
Sometimes you can't drive around them, or even see them if there is just a
little snow on the road.
Floyd
floyd rogers
> Yes-- I just had another look at that... It was the dynamic
> stability control. Uh... thank you. :)
Did you notice that the TCS/ASC interferes with the AM radio?
At least in my 330xi.
Floyd
floyd rogers
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:58:50 -0700, "Sean Barclay" wrote:
> >I currently have a 1999 323i and was looking at getting either the 325xi
or
> >the 330xi. I need honest opinions on the cars ability in the snow. I
> >realize that the cars are AWD but are they good in snow? Any help would
be
> >great.
>
> had the pleasure of driving it several times in snow, varying from a
> few inches to a few feet (it's been a pretty mild winter here sofar).
> It handles this weather just perfect, much more then I had
> anticipated. I didn't get stuck and it holds the road very good. My
> road doesn't get plowed until the very end of a snowstorm, so I had to
> drive it several times through unplowed roads and it's just great in
> it. Mine has the sports package (which on the xi comes with the all
> season tires (not the performance tires that come with the 325/330 i
> sportspackages) and that may have a lot to do with it as well.
>
> All in all, I would say to not worry about driving the 325xi in snow.
> It corners, it grips and it performs very well in the stuff. I
> wouldn't take it through the snowbank (after the snowplows had their
> fun with the end of my driveway) but it sure won't get stranded under
> normal (inches to feet) snow conditions.
I agree with everything that Vern says. Only real problem is not
enough ground clearance for deep snow - I did get high centered
on a day that the snow was melting/soft as the packed snow gave
way. Lots of plastic pieces under the car to worry about when
high centered (one fairing came off, but the dealer put it back.)
Although the all-season tires are sufficient for most conditions, true
snow tires on all 4 wheels will help in extreme conditions: climbing
hills in deep snow, and in slushy conditions when the all-seasons
hydroplane but the snow's would not. I have not got stuck (yet)
due to insufficient traction with the all-seasons.
The ASC/TCS works great. You definitely need the defeat
button to climb, or to bash through deeper snow.
FWIW, I work as a ski instructor and drive my 2001 330xi on
snow/ice at least 5 days a week. Be sure to get the heated seats,
because they warm your buns in only about 1 minute - very nice
on 15 degree F days!
Floyd
Looker DC
that potholes can unsettle the car, apparently due to it's heavier front
end."
What does this mean?
floyd rogers
It means that, since there is more sprung AND un-sprung weight on
the front of a 330xi than a 330i (or 325i), the front end is less-well
controlled in a bounce or bump (pothole) than the non-awd car.
While a 330i will "glide" over a pothole, a 330xi may "lurch" over it.
It's not very much more than a normal 330i, but noticeable.
Floyd
Chris
1. Know that if you want to be sure, use snow tires in the snow.
2. Know that BMWs are made in Germany where there are no potholes.
3. understand that if the BMW ads are showing a BMW "ripping up a snowy
hill," the image they are trying to portray is that the car will go better
in the snow, not that they can handle the back streets of Kabul, or the
potholed streets of Boston.
4. Know that light alloy wheels are meant to be just that: "light," not
necessarily indestructible.
5. Understand that "All weather" tires are not. They are a compromise.
They aren't the best in snow and they aren't the best in the summer.
(If one can afford a 330Xi, one can probably also spring $1000 or less for 4
steels with Nokians, etc. Besides, you could probably use the snows 7
months out of the year in the NE...and your summer tires would last 10
years....)
6. Consider the possibility that a RWD car with proper snow tires may fare
better in the snow than an AWD car riding on 40 or 45 series summer tires.
7. Take it as a given that BMWs are not "main stream." A stripper 325i
starts at over $27.5k, and a 330Xi starts at over $36k including dest charge
(as you surely know). The average price for a new car in the US is around
$18,000. That does not make a BMW "mainstream" in any respect.
-----
Just because a car is AWD or 4wd (or FWD for that matter) doesn't mean that
in snow one can or should avoid using snow tires.
My 528i, 535i, Z-3 and M Roadster were all terrible in the snow (with their
45 series Z rated Michelins.) If I wanted better performance, I could have
bought snows.
I don't think any car maker will warrant its wheels against potholes. Nor
any tire maker. I'd suggest taking up the pothole issue with your municipal
government.
You're probably lucky that you only damaged the tires and not the wheels.
Nür meine zwei Pfennige.
Don't feel too bad. You're driving a ~$40k+ BMW.
Ok folks, let me have it.
"jim2101024" <jim21...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:eAn68.3460$KA4.1...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
>
> One thing you may watch out for: where there is snow, there may be
potholes.
> The 330xi comes with low profile tires which are quite vulnerable to
> potholes, and the 200 extra pounds of the AWD doesn't help. I have had to
> replace two tires (bubbles on the sidewall) and I have only owned the car
> for only 2.5 months (Massachusetts, in case you are wondering). The
dealer
> recommended I purchase an additional set of snow tires, even though the
> 330xi is an AWD that comes with "all weather" tires. Unfortunately, (1)
> this may not help the pothole vulnerability problem and (2) if I had known
> this before purchase I would have gotten *no* AWD and purchased additional
> winter tires instead (or perhaps a Lexus IS300).
>
> It seems to me a contradiction to market an AWD car with such a vulnerable
> wheel/tire combination, especially when the TV ads have it ripping up a
> snowy hill. Yes, yes, I know: BMW is a car designed all about
performance,
> and they make certain tradeoffs to keep the performance. However, if BMW
> continues to market their car as a mainstream AWD vehicle, don't be
> surprised when people get pissed of when they aren't rugged enough to
handle
> potholes that often come with the snow.
>
> You will notice that other cars in the AWD category have either lower
> weight, more sidewall, or (typically) both. I think that BMW should offer
a
> no cost option for a 16.5 inch wheel and tires with larger sidewalls (the
> Lexus IS300 now does this, and they also reimburse for tires with sidewall
> bubbles.
>
> jim
Steve
> 2. Know that BMWs are made in Germany where there are no potholes.
You've never been to Germany.
Chris
Amen, brother.
<Colin> wrote in message news:3c5c48c...@news.mindspring.com...
the old anarchist
if they were asphalt, they were smooth. of course, the weather patterns are
really different. it is just that in North America do we have the worst
weather for roads. and they are made as cheap as possible. ok, this is the
single biggest market. do you engineer for one market or all? or engineer
for cheap ass local governments who won't fix roads, but buy more radar
guns? don't get me started, they tried to pass a law here where it
retroactively forgave all possible criminal actions for misuse of taxed
lottery funds. so if they would throw some cold patch in the worse ones it
would help. just not leave the mini canyons in the middle of the road
the old anarchist
"Saber1" <n...@for.you> wrote in message
news:not-7E9898.2...@east.usenetserver.com...
> In article <a4415p$oiq$1...@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>,
> "Chris" <cj...@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
>
> > I guess I'd say that anyone fortunate enough to afford a BMW 330Xi
should
> >
> > 1. Know that if you want to be sure, use snow tires in the snow.
> > 2. Know that BMWs are made in Germany where there are no potholes.
>
>
> Whether there are potholes or not is irrelevant. BMW engineers don't
> have their heads in the sand and know where there cars are used.
> That includes area with potholes.
>
Chris
First, I drove my 1984 (Westmoreland) Rabbit for a year.
Second, drove my 1985 528i (Deutschland specs) for a year (45,000 km)
Then picked up a US spec 535i and drove that for a year (probably only about
20,000 miles that year) before I came back to the US.
Of course I will admit that I have only driven in what was formerly called
West Germany.
Don't recall any potholes (except on the US military bases....)
[I visited the East but did not drive there, so if you told me there were
potholes in the East, I'd believe it.]
"Steve" <sp...@spam.spam> wrote in message
news:3C6592E8...@spam.spam...
John Smith
tire after ripping through the snowy/icy parking lot at Mt. Baker Washington
ski resort. They had just plowed it, and somehow I picked up a piece of
glass in the sidewall of the right rear tire, went flat in a matter of
minutes.
Upon further inspection, it appears the sidewalls curve so much on the
Goodyear Eagle RS-As that a portion of the sidewall faces the ground. It
didn't take much glass to penetrate right through the sidewall. I keep my
tires at recommended inflation, 36 psi rear, 32 front.
I'm contemplating replacing the tires for something better. Any
suggestions?
BTW, it did drive great in snow.
-Gerald
"jim2101024" <jim21...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:eAn68.3460$KA4.1...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
> I have a 330xi and have successfully drove through quite an intense
> snowstorm without any problem. This was on a highway so I really didn't
> have an opportunity to push the limits of its traction.
>
> Sean Barclay <ksba...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
> news:OertbloqBHA.1344@cpimsnntpa03...
C.R. Krieger
news:#ZKh80qsBHA.1264@cpimsnntpa03...
>
> I'm contemplating replacing the tires for something better. Any
> suggestions?
As always, check out your choices at www.tirerack.com and *call* our BMW
guy, Noah, there. He won't steer you wrong, especially if you tell hime
I sent you.
--
C.R. Krieger
"Don't argue with 'em, dear; they're beneath our dignity." - W.C. Fields
Kurt Ridder
C.R. Krieger wrote:
> As always, check out your choices at www.tirerack.com and *call* our BMW
guy, Noah, there. He won't steer you wrong, especially if you tell hime I
sent you.
I spoke with Noah yesterday and he was extremely helpful, even AFTER I told
him C.R. recommended him....
Kurt Ridder