Audi A6 2.7T Manual: Reliable?
William Szuch
Are there any informed opinions about the reliability of the A6 2.7
manual? I'm looking for a mid-size AWD sedan with a manual
transmission. The list is short:
Audi A6 2.7T
Jag X-Type
Subaru Legacy
I don't like Jags so that leaves Audi and Subaru. BMW has an AWD
version for their 3 series, but that car is a bit too small.
I'm concerned that Audi's turbo engine does not have longevity. I'm
ridding myself of a 22 year Volvo (automatic), but I still really want a
durable reliable car and turbos aren't great even if you lick them daily
(mechanics usually echo "turbos get towed"). Volvo does have AWDs, but
they're all automatics.
Thanks
Saintor
both!. I owned one turbo Audi and it had 105000 miles when I sold it. The
turbo itself did well, but I had serious issues with accessories that
support the turbo system. For instance, one intercooler flange broke and
once more I was left stranded on the road. Also, according to everything I
read in various NG, the new turbos seem to be less tough than the ones on
old Audi. Peace of mind should include an additional warranty.
I don't like turbo.
"William Szuch" <willia...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3BD7F0E7...@hotmail.com...
Paul at Uptime
repair - and there's a lot that can go bad, too - so I bought the warranty
extending my coverage to 160,000km's bumper to bumper.
So of course it's not cheap to buy or later, perhaps to repair, BUT this is
one AWESOME car. There is nothing like it on the market. Think about it -
you list other cars, but nothing else has the style, size, speed, safety or
comfort - OH (Big Oh!) - *nothing else is a quatrro*
I recently did a relatively long same-day round trip with my family and we
were comfortable, very fast and safe. I've driven many sports cars at
slower clips than my 4-door 2.7T. I like the twin-turbo and will maintain
it properly. The turbo rush is smooth and linear - many passengers have
commented how smooth the power delivery feels - particularly when I'm doing
the shifting.
The A6 4.2 is nearly the same price as the 2.7T, and will likely maintain a
proportionally higher resale due to repair worries and cost concerns by the
"uninitiated" but I don't think AofA supplies the 4.2 with the manual.
Still, the 5 spd auto "tiptronic" (or whatever it's called) is hardly a
compromise. Me - I love the six speed and expect to enjoy the car worry
free for a good time under warranty - then reassess once it's up.
My new A6 completes a nice trilogy of my current cars for me,
I've got the Ming blue/Vanilla leather twin-turbo "business/family saloon"
The wife's 100 Pearl/leatherAvant family and utility car (carries everything
from mtn bikes to canoes and camp gear)
My beautiful silver-blue '65 Corvette Sting Ray convertible w/4 spd manual
and 454 cubic inches of good ol' American V8 torque and with the top down
all the sun, wind, noise and nostalgia you can stand.
Actually all together they make for a great looking threesome!
- Paul
"Saintor" <sain...@REMOVETHIShotmail.com> wrote in message
news:WXVB7.4229$ND1.2...@brie.direct.ca...
C.R. Krieger
Surprisingly (I was a skeptic, too), Audi turbos seem to fail very rarely. My
own ('90 200TQ) is at 135K mi. now. The seller, Jim Blau, promised me he'd
replace it free if it failed before 185K. At the same time, he and his mechanic
had only ever replaced one of them in their service business, and that probably
failed due to the owner's failure to change oil at reasonable intervals.
Like the Quattro drivetrain, the turbos seem to be overengineered and even
rarely fail in competition conditions (SCCA rally, etc.).
--
C.R. Krieger
Wayne Dohnal
been driving an automatic Legacy for the last 7 years, and the
brain-deadness of its transmission is the reason I will not buy
another automatic. Other than that one thing, I'll say the the Legacy
is a well-engineered, well-built, reliable and capable car. Access
for engine and accessory maintenance is far superior to any of the
Audis, and my sense is that reliability can be expected to be better.
It's also a much better value for the money. The styling is a
generation behind the new Audis, which I consider an advantage. The
highly-rounded roof lines of the Audis cut into the interior space and
give me a closed-in feeling around my head. The Audi is also a
generation ahead of the Subaru in the electronics, but that isn't
important to me.
After reading all of this you'd think I would rush out and get a new
Legacy, but I'm not, for two reasons: (1) The interior road noise in
my 1995 is bad to the point of being the major fatigue factor on any
but the shortest trips, and (2) the front seats are too soft and don't
provide enough back support. I drove a 2002 Legacy and was
disappointed to find that the road noise improvement was minimal at
best, and even though the driver (but not passenger) seat comfort has
been improved, the Audi seats are significantly better.
I drove a 2002 A4 1.8T. I generally like it a lot, and was blown away
by the solid feeling of the suspension and the output of the 4-banger
(which totaly blows away the Subaru's performance). The car feels a
little too small for me. I wish an A6 2.7T was on the table, but my
limit is $30K. A 2 or 3 year old used A6 would be ideal, but they all
have automatics. It's frustrating to know what you want and not be
able to find it. I'd think that for $30K you should be able to find a
decent-sized, confortable, AWD car with a stick shift!
Wayne Dohnal
(email adr contains spam protection)
On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:00:05 GMT, William Szuch
<willia...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Are there any informed opinions about the reliability of the A6 2.7
>manual? I'm looking for a mid-size AWD sedan with a manual
>transmission. The list is short:
>
>Audi A6 2.7T
>Jag X-Type
>Subaru Legacy
>
<snip>
Sanjay
The Audi A6 is a very well-rounded car. The ride is comfortable although not
as settled as it might be. Handling is responsive
and secure. The 2.7T model accelerates quickly, but the engine and
transmission don't always act as a seamless team. The
interior is roomy, very quiet, and meticulously finished. All-wheel drive
(AWD) endows the A6 with a clear advantage in slippery
conditions, but fuel economy is mediocre. Reliability has been below
average.
While competent in many respects, and excellent in some, the Jaguar S-Type
doesn't match the overall standards set by the
others in this group. The seats are comfortable, but the cockpit feels a
little cramped. No head-protection air bags are offered.
Overall, it doesn't deliver the ride comfort, quietness, quality feel, or
spaciousness that add up to a first-rate driving experience.
Its reliability has improved to average, which now allows us to recommend
it.
*********************************************************************************************
A CLOSER LOOK
November 2001
Audi A6 Quattro 2.7T
Highs: All-wheel drive, cabin quietness, accommodations, fit and finish.
Lows: Inconsistent power delivery, reliability.
Body style: 4-door 2WD; 4-door AWD; 4-door wagon AWD.
Trim lines: 3.0, 2.7T, 4.2, 3.0 Avant, Allroad.
Engines & transmissions: 3.0L V6 (220 hp), 2.7L V6 turbo (250 hp), 4.2L V8
(300 hp); 6-speed manual, 5-speed automatic,
CVT.
Base price range: $34,400 to $49,400.
Tested: 2.7T 4-door AWD, 2.7L turbo V6, 5-speed automatic.
The A6 has a sumptuous and comfortable interior that shows lots of
attention to detail. While it's quiet and refined, its driving
characteristics are not as engaging as the BMW 530i's or Mercedes-Benz
E320's. AWD is a big plus but exacts a penalty in
fuel economy. And reliability has been disappointing.
THE DRIVING EXPERIENCE
The Audi rides very pleasantly but is not quite as composed as its German
rivals. It is smooth enough, but on the highway the
A6 exhibits a trace of floatiness. The cabin stays blissfully quiet at all
times.
The steering feels quick and responsive but the Audi doesn't corner with
the razor sharpness of the BMW. The A6 proved
steady and secure at our track, thanks in part to stability control and
seamless AWD. It tackled our emergency maneuvers
quickly but without the high confidence-inspiring assurance of the others
in the group.
The 250-hp, 2.7-liter turbocharged V6 delivers strong acceleration but
sometimes hesitates on takeoff. Fuel economy of 18
mpg is a bit under par for this class and, as with the others in this
group, premium fuel is recommended. The five-speed
automatic transmission normally shifts very smoothly, but if you don't
come to a complete stop it sometimes doesn't drop to
first gear. This causes the car to take off with a jerk when you resume
acceleration. A clunky six-speed manual is available on
the 2.7T. Braking performance was very good.
INSIDE THE CAR
Numerous seat and steering-wheel adjustments let nearly any driver get
comfortable behind the wheel. The large front seats
are very comfortable and supportive. The rear bench is ample for two
adults but a squeeze for three.
Controls are well designed, mostly intuitive, and nicely illuminated at
night. The low-mounted climate controls are hard to
decipher at a glance. The versatile dual-zone automatic climate system
works very well but its fan is noisy. Very effective front-
and rear-seat heaters are part of a $625 option package.
Cabin storage is adequate if not abundant. Two rather flimsy cup holders
serve the front; a sturdier pair projects like a drawer
from beneath the rear bench.
The medium-sized trunk holds four suitcases and two duffels, or a folded
wheelchair with room to spare. The rear seatbacks
fold down for more cargo room. A full-size spare is stored beneath the
floor.
SAFETY AND RELIABILITY
Besides front air bags, the A6 provides standard side air bags and
side-curtain
head-protection bags. Rear side bags are a $350 option, although we don't
recommend those when carrying children. All five seats have
lap-and-shoulder belts
with pretensioners. The front two have adjustable upper anchors and force
limiters as
well. The five head restraints are all high enough at their lowest
position.
Government crash-test data are not available. The IIHS rated the A6
Acceptable after a
frontal-offset crash. Our bumper-repair estimates were $600 for the front
and $939 for
the rear.
Driving with kids. Most child seats can cinch up tightly in the left and
right backseats
but rear-facing infant seats may be hard to tighten adequately in the
center rear. There
are three top-tether anchors and places to attach lower LATCH anchors.
Our car had three sample defects, all minor. The 2.7T's reliability has
been much
worse than average.
Andrew Duane USG
>Hello,
>
>Are there any informed opinions about the reliability of the A6 2.7
>manual? I'm looking for a mid-size AWD sedan with a manual transmission.
>
For what it's worth, one of Audi's best kept secrets is that there
were a few 2000 A6Q sedans with the regular 2.8 V6 (non-turbo) that
had 5-speed manuals, not tiptronic autos.
I have one. I was the same as you; I *require* a stick, won't drive a
slushbox, but didn't want to pay to buy a turbo, only to worry about it,
and have my insurance go way up. Besides, the extra power would only get
my license taken away real soon.
That said, the 2.7T should be a very reliable car. Just maintain it
properly, and take care of what needs taking care of. My first Audi,
a 1989 100Q is still purring like a kitten at about 260K miles.
My new 2000 A6Q still has 247K to go :-)
--
Andrew L. Duane (JOT-7) du...@zk3.dec.com
Compaq Computer Corporation (603)-884-1294
110 Spit Brook Road
M/S ZKO3-3/U14
Nashua, NH 03062-2698
Sanjay
reporting problems 2.0% or less) excellent in all categories and is
recommended by consumer reports. The Jaguar X is a first run production
with AWD with no data from consumer reports. The Audi 2001 A6T was 9.3% to
14.8% of Percentage of owners reporting problems.
Hope this helps
GT
"Sanjay" <San...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3BD85FDE...@mindspring.com...
Wolfgang Pawlinetz
wrote:
> Its reliability has improved to average, which now allows us to recommend
>it.
>
[snip]
> Our car had three sample defects, all minor. The 2.7T's reliability has
>been much
> worse than average.
Now, dont get me wrong, but this is really flimsy.
Do you - or for that matter the magazine - have any further
information on WHAT actually the problems were?
Leaking? Piston breaks? cigarette lighter malfunctioning? Air
conditioning explosions? Gearbox? Headlamp?
I think for the folks to decide if there is a reliability problem that
affects them, it is important to know what went wrong to determine if
it is an issue for them or not.
This is especially interesting as the German independent motorist club
ADAC (the partner of AAA in the states I think) states the following
ranking for reliabiltiy for 2000 (note that the cars are grouped in
classes):
1. Audi A6 16,7
2. BMW 5 Series 20,7
3. Mercedes E-Series 21,7
4. BMW 7 Series 23,9
5. Volvo 850/V70/S70/C70 38,7
6. Opel (GM Vauxhall) Omega 40,9
(Cavalier in the UK I think)
In the lower to medium classes japanese cars were leading.
1. Toyota Carina 8,7
2, Mitsubishi Carisma 9,9
3. Audi A4 11,7
4. Mercedes C-Class 13,3
6. BMW 3-Series 17,6
To make this information complete: The figure beside the cars
specifies how many cars out of 1000 had a problem which needed
roadside support from the ADAC.
This info can be read up under:
http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/na_pro/appl/na_professional/parse.php3?mdoc_id=1081264#1081264
(this is the Austrian partner club of the German ADAC)
And here you'll find a pie chart telling you which systems were
affected by what perecentage. It's in German, so for our english
speaking friends it will be kinda hard to read. Sorry bout that :-)
Btw.. this means the A4 is more reliable than the A6 :-)
Regards
Wolfgang
--
A6 2000 2.5TDI V6 6-speed
52.000 km
1 oilchange up to now and running strong :-)
--
Ducati 900 SS EZ'01
Hang-Off fährt man weil man geschützt durch den Bock, unter der
Gabelbrücke hindurch besser auf die Bleichgesichter ballern kann.
P. Renner in afm
Saintor
purchased my Audi.
Unfortunately, they represents early stages of the cars and they don't give
long-term reliability; my Audi proved to be a nightmare, reliability wise.
"Wolfgang Pawlinetz" <wolfgang....@chello.at> wrote in message
news:3bd879b5...@news.cis.dfn.de...
Saintor
I am very surprised by this. Would you please explain how you got this car?
Special order? Car off the lot?
Thanks.
eBob.com
are available from time to time.
(I used to drive a Legacy wagon. My Audi wagons have definitely been more
quiet and more comfortable.)
Bob
"Wayne Dohnal" <doh...@hevanet.com.nospam> wrote in message
news:tulgttkp4686c7buv...@4ax.com...
Wolfgang Pawlinetz
<sain...@REMOVETHIShotmail.com> wrote:
>This was the kind of infos that was present and influenced me a lot when I
>purchased my Audi.
>
>Unfortunately, they represents early stages of the cars and they don't give
>long-term reliability; my Audi proved to be a nightmare, reliability wise.
>
I'm sorry, forgot to mention, that they provide these statistics every
year. The one I referred to was for 2000 and also considered cars up
to 6 years old.
Regards
Wolfgang
Wolfgang Pawlinetz
(Wolfgang Pawlinetz) wrote:
And I should be carefully watching default signatures
*lol*
Wolfgang
Sanjay
Engine: Pistons, rings, valves, block, heads, bearings,
camshafts, gaskets, supercharger, turbocharger, cam belts and
chains, accessory belts, oil pump.
Cooling: Radiator, heater core, water pump, thermostat, hoses,
intercooler, plumbing.
Fuel: Fuel injection, computer and sensors, fuel pump, tank,
emissions controls, "check engine" light.
Ignition: Spark plugs, coil, distributor, electronic ignition,
sensors and modules, timing.
Transmission: Transaxle, gear selector and linkage, coolers and
lines. Note: We no longer provide separate data for manual
transmissions and clutches since we usually receive an
insufficient number of survey responses for these items.
Electrical: Starter, alternator, battery, horn, gauges, wiper
motor,
wiring, lights.
Air-conditioning: Compressor, condensor, evaporator,
expansion valves, hoses, dryer, fans, electronics.
Suspension: Linkage, power-steering gear, pump, coolers and
lines, alignment and balance, springs and torsion bars, ball
joints,
bushings, shocks and struts, electronic or air suspension.
Brakes: Hydraulic system, linings, rotors and drums, power
boost, antilock system, parking brake and linkage.
Exhaust: Manifold, muffler, catalytic converter, pipes.
Paint/trim/rust: Fading, discoloring, chalking, peeling,
cracking;
loose trim, moldings, rust.
Body integrity: Seals, weather stripping, air and water leaks,
wind noise, rattles and squeaks.
Power equipment: Power mirrors, sunroof, windows, doors and
central locks; cruise control switches, power and sensory seat
position, heated seats, audio system, navigational system.
Body hardware: Manual mirrors, sunroof, locks and seat
mechanics, windows and door operating hardware, loose interior
trim, glass defect.
Andrew Duane USG
>
>I am very surprised by this. Would you please explain how you got this car?
>Special order? Car off the lot?
>
>> were a few 2000 A6Q sedans with the regular 2.8 V6 (non-turbo) that
>> had 5-speed manuals, not tiptronic autos.
>>
>> I have one.
I had spent years looking for one. They are not even available special
order; Audi "discontinued" selling standards in the US-spec A6 (except
for the 2.7T) in 1997. Even in 1995 they were rare.
But, through the Audi club I belong to, I found that there were a couple
around, and a dealer in Pittsburgh had three on his lot. After a week of
phone calls and faxes, I flew out to pick it up and drive it home.
Most dealers swear this car doesn't even exist in the US. I just smile.
Saintor
"Wolfgang Pawlinetz" <wolfgang....@chello.at> wrote in message
news:3bd8f37f...@news.cis.dfn.de...
Wolfgang Pawlinetz
wrote:
>[Translation of trouble spots]
*lol*
yes..
that's _all_ problems of _all_ cars in _all_ classes...
just in case you forgot to mention it ;-)
Regards
Wolfgang
Dougga Freudendahl
Warning...
It appears that there are a number of individual posing as legitimate
posters that flood this newsgroup with questions and answers that attempt
to get people thinking about purchasing Volvos over Audis.
This is a clever marketting trick and little else. This thread I feel is
an excellent example.
"I'm concerned that Audi's turbo engine does not have longevity. I'm
ridding myself of a 22 year Volvo"
This appears to be Volvo marketting.
Enough said...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
On 10/25/01, 3:00:05 AM, William Szuch <willia...@hotmail.com> wrote
regarding Audi A6 2.7T Manual: Reliable?:
William
A bit too much conspiracy nonsense. It is also offensive.
I posted this question as a legitimate inquiry. I certainly have an affinity for
Volvo, but I'm no fucking marketing jerkoff.
I had a legitimate question about Audi's 2.7T manual and I tried to solicit
informed opinions. And, thankfully, I've received a few.
Regards,
William
cco...@compuserve.com
collector's pieces just like the cars without sun roofs. If you
track vehicle prices, it is becoming clear that values of manual
tansmissions decline more and faster, and then if the car has
potential collector, track or mod capability the manuals increase
a lot. So a Hurst equipped 66 Corvette is more valuable than its
auto version. Same with Mustang, and some of the other cars in
that era. You could not give away a manual Mustang in 1980.
The fact that you are even corresponding on this list makes you
one of a tiny minority of enthusiasts and hence your frustration.
C.
