why dont other manufacturers use twin spark engines?
Chris S
from having a TS setup, but if it's so good why don't other makes use it more, is it down
to cost?
just wondering!
thanks
Chris
1997 146 1.6TS
Catman
> i know some do.. but why isn't it more mainstream? i know there are
> supposed to be benefits from having a TS setup, but if it's so good why
> don't other makes use it more, is it down to cost?
>
> just wondering!
I think Alfa probably patented it?
<snip>
--
Catman:Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright
Alfa Romeo 116 Giulietta 2.0L, Sprint 1.7
Honda MTX 125
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
Pieter Verheij
which).
By the way, they abandonded TS for the new JTS engine.
regards,
Pieter Verheij
'92 33 16V S QV
Johny Lau
> i know some do.. but why isn't it more mainstream? i know there are supposed to be benefits
> from having a TS setup, but if it's so good why don't other makes use it more, is it down
> to cost?
>
Not too sure. Some document said that it is not easy to put twin spark and multi-valve into
the same cylinder head easily. Alfa can make Twin Spark with 4 valves per cylinder. Other
manufacturers proceed to build multi-valve engines instead of multi-spark engines even though
both of them have been invented for quite a while.
Mercedes Benz is also producing Twin Spark engines with 3 valves per cylinder (I believe it
uses twin spark to reduce emission).
Honda recently builds the Fit/Jazz using Twin Spark in its iDSL engine to reduce fuel
consumption (as well as emission).
Ante Turkovic
"Chris S" <csedgbe...@bournemouth.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:a4qhv6$2aqv1$1...@ID-103475.news.dfncis.de...
Not really car related, but majority of airplane piston engines uses two
spark plugs. Even WW2 engines used two spark plugs and four valves per
cylinder.
Antti
"Johny Lau" <jlm...@hongkong.com> wrote in message
news:3C70E6FA...@hongkong.com...
> Chris S wrote:
>
> > i know some do.. but why isn't it more mainstream? i know there are
supposed to be benefits
> > from having a TS setup, but if it's so good why don't other makes use it
more, is it down
> > to cost?
> >
>
> Not too sure. Some document said that it is not easy to put twin spark
and multi-valve into
> the same cylinder head easily. Alfa can make Twin Spark with 4 valves per
cylinder. Other
> manufacturers proceed to build multi-valve engines instead of multi-spark
engines even though
> both of them have been invented for quite a while.
>
> Mercedes Benz is also producing Twin Spark engines with 3 valves per
cylinder (I believe it
> uses twin spark to reduce emission).
>
http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/engine/tech_engine_4.htm#TS
Antti
156V6
Andy Hewitt
Slightly different reasons though, they were such a large engine that
two sparks were needed to ignite all the fuel. FWIW Rolls Royce Phantom
MkIV also used two spark plugs per cylinder.
--
Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1, OSOS#5 - BMW K100RS 8v, Honda Concerto 16v
(RIP H100s, CB400N, CB750KZ, XJ600s) Windows free zone (Mac G3)
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ahewitt/index.htm> (last update 11/01)
Toomas Kordemets
> "Chris S" <csedgbe...@bournemouth.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:a4qhv6$2aqv1$1...@ID-103475.news.dfncis.de...
> > i know some do.. but why isn't it more mainstream?
> Not really car related, but majority of airplane piston engines uses two
> spark plugs. Even WW2 engines used two spark plugs and four valves per
> cylinder.
Honda's new hybrid engines are twinsparks. There was 3 or 4 cylinder
petrol + electric engine and some batterys. It's now available for
civic's IIRC.
Tom
Colin Stamp
Hewitt) wrote:
>Ante Turkovic <ante.t...@st.tel.hr> wrote:
>
>> "Chris S" <csedgbe...@bournemouth.ac.uk> wrote in message
>> news:a4qhv6$2aqv1$1...@ID-103475.news.dfncis.de...
>> > i know some do.. but why isn't it more mainstream? i know there are
>> supposed to be benefits
>> > from having a TS setup, but if it's so good why don't other makes use it
>> more, is it down
>> > to cost?
>> >
>> > just wondering!
>> >
>> > thanks
>> >
>> > Chris
>> > 1997 146 1.6TS
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Not really car related, but majority of airplane piston engines uses two
>> spark plugs. Even WW2 engines used two spark plugs and four valves per
>> cylinder.
>
>Slightly different reasons though, they were such a large engine that
>two sparks were needed to ignite all the fuel. FWIW Rolls Royce Phantom
>MkIV also used two spark plugs per cylinder.
I think the reason modern (i.e. light aircraft) ones have two plugs
though, is dual redundancy. The two sets of plugs are driven by two
separate ignition systems, so you can afford to lose the odd HT lead
or magneto, and still stay in the air.
Colin.
Martin Smarda
news:a4qhv6$2aqv1$1...@ID-103475.news.dfncis.de...
> just wondering!
Honda Jazz
Smart
I´m not sure about Mercedes-engines.
Various Motorcycles (Honda V2, Aprilia V2 from Rotax...)
There is no patent on this technology. It was used zillions of years ago in
Racing,
and in den 50s, the MB 300SL Gullwing provided Twinspark.
cheers, Martin
Andy Hewitt
<snipped text>
> >> Not really car related, but majority of airplane piston engines uses two
> >> spark plugs. Even WW2 engines used two spark plugs and four valves per
> >> cylinder.
> >
> >Slightly different reasons though, they were such a large engine that
> >two sparks were needed to ignite all the fuel. FWIW Rolls Royce Phantom
> >MkIV also used two spark plugs per cylinder.
>
> I think the reason modern (i.e. light aircraft) ones have two plugs
> though, is dual redundancy. The two sets of plugs are driven by two
> separate ignition systems, so you can afford to lose the odd HT lead
> or magneto, and still stay in the air.
There is that too, although it was WW2 planes that were mentioned :-)
There is of course another reason - cost! I surely don't need to remind
anybody here how much a set of platinum plugs is for a TS.
Charles Andrews
"Ante Turkovic" <ante.t...@st.tel.hr> wrote in message
news:a4r2h4$fofh$1...@as201.hinet.hr...
........Mostly for reliability. Another point of interest- you can typically
switch one magneto (and hence on set of plugs) off- and see the rpm drop for
a given throttle setting. Does anyone know how this works in an Alfa? Ie are
there 2 mags or just one etc?
Colin Stamp
There aren't any magnetos. Power for the system comes from the
alternator, in common with other modern cars. As far as I can make out
for the Alfa Twinsparks, the ECU provides one ignition output per
cylinder. These signals are then used to drive one coil per cylinder,
each of which drives both a big plug and a little plug.
It's a bit different to what I'd imagined. I thought I read somewhere,
that the two sparks were carefully sequenced in some way. The trouble
is, that can't be done with the setup that the cars seem to have (i.e.
one coil per cylinder rather than one coil per plug.)
Colin.
Buzzardous Cross
both plugs in each cylinder were fired at the same time by separate
coils => bigger "flame".
But in the 16 valve TS engines (156 etc.), the plugs in each cylinder
are not fired together. Instead, during the power stroke, only the
main plug is fired and simultaneously the small plug of the cylinder
in exhaust stroke is fired
=> 1 big plug and 1 small plug in different cylinders are fired
together using the ignition coil of the big plug.
Remove the plastic engine cover and you can see the HT leads linking
the sets of 2 plugs.
Basically, the new TS engines have the second spark to comply with
emission regulations - it's not directly related to increased power.
Sounds like TS has become a marketing tool!
"Chris S" <csedgbe...@bournemouth.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<a4qhv6$2aqv1$1...@ID-103475.news.dfncis.de>...