Supercharged 3800 into 2002 S10?
Steve Grauman
of mine has a 2002 Xtreme, and we thought this would be a cool idea.
MarshM...@webtv.net
Bruce
"Steve Grauman" <onea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030407040810...@mb-fd.aol.com...
Me
"Steve Grauman" <onea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030407040810...@mb-fd.aol.com...
Steve Grauman
Mike Levy A+, N+, MCP
>Even with the extra space required by the supercharger?
Ill add:
Even when the 3800 is intended to mount cross-ways in a vehicle and
the S-10 requires front to back mounting?
Me
should fit.
"Steve Grauman" <onea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030407183902...@mb-fd.aol.com...
Me
popular swap with the 2.8 powered s trucks and blazers because of that.
"Mike Levy A+, N+, MCP" <mle...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3rv39vshe5a1lso7u...@4ax.com...
MarshM...@webtv.net
extry metal to fab with..............and go ahead and put it in
MarshM...@webtv.net
Mike Levy A+, N+, MCP
Still not sure if the transverse engines will swap into a longitudinal
engine bay...
He'd still have to find a tranny with a bellhousing that'll work with
that engine. The 2.8 hasn't been used in the S-series since 91 or so,
and a 4.3 bellhousing won't bolt to one of those engines...
Gary Glaenzer
it) that the small bell 700 will bolt to a 3.8 block
I've got a 4T65E core out in the shop, I'll make a cardboard tracing of the
bell bolt pattern and see if it matches the small-bell 700
only other problem would be if the converter nose would fit the hole in the
crank, and fabbing some mounts for it
"Mike Levy A+, N+, MCP" <mle...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1t849v8nga4s826lt...@4ax.com...
Steve Grauman
Chevy stopped using the DOHC 3.4 litre V6 in 94 or 95. After that, they started
using the 3.8 litre OHV engine that's still in many of GMs sedans today. The
engine I'm talking about is the Supercharged version of the 3800 series II (3.8
litre) found in the Bonneville SSEi and Grand Prix GTP. The S10 comes with the
4.3 litre OHV V6 also still used in the S10 based Blazer (*not* the
Trailblazer, the base model). What my friend would like to do is find a used
3800 series II engine with the supercharger and swap out the 4.3 litre in his
S10 for the supercharged engine (anyone wanna buy a used 4.3? =) The only
prblem is, we're not sure if there's enough room for the engine + the
supercharger, etc....and we're not sure if the 3800 will mate up properly with
the stock tranny. Worse case scenario, he's kinda thinking about selling the
truck, in which case he wants one of the old C/K 1500 SS 454s to toy with =)
Mike Levy A+, N+, MCP
Well, the engine and tranny won't mate up. The 3.8 is a 60* V-6, the
4.3 is a 90* V-6. The reason I asked what I did is that someone
mentioned that a 3.4 (apparently a VERY similar block to the 3.8) was
a popular swap into the S-trucks to replace a 2.8, since it bolted to
the tranny from the 2.8, but that 3.4 was typically one from a Camaro,
not sure if anyone tried a transverse engine.
A. Jones
"Me" <en...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hdpka.71914$0X.13...@twister.columbus.rr.com...
maybe im stupid but why not supercharge the 4.3?? If I was swaping engines,
id suggest a new GM crate motor 350. Jags that run.com has instructions and
at $1200 its cheap reliable HP. The tranny and rear would be the only weak
point.
MarshM...@webtv.net
lenghty post...I know I promised to keep em short ...but
..DAMN.......the explanations needed to some if these posts...... :)
okay...I've read all the post on this matter up to date....and a few
more facts are starting to materialize...(any body feel like they
running a service department :) .....)
since the original question was posted....." can I put a 3800 in my S 10
" ........which I would like to remind , was the only question
asked..(YES you can)...........there has yet to be asked HOW IN THE HELL
DO YOU DO IT ..and I"M BROKE >>IS IT GONNA COST A LOT...
but now..(as I'm sure you guys with service and sell experience are very
well familiar with).....the customer , and a few other :( interested
parties (mom,dad,brother, wife, concerned next door neighbor who thinks
your getting ripped off ) are starting to give away a little more
insight into the queery............."I don't know if it's gonna fit the
original trans"........translates to a scarred knuckled, oil weathered,
sore jointed, truth prying out, pisssed off, burn out of a yard bird
mechanic........that what the customer is going for is ........."I want
a really unique ride to impress all my buddies with...but I want it done
cheap..........
well then.............IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN people....
for all you folks out there wanting to start a "project"
truck.........keep this in mind.....
SPEED COST MONEY.....HOW FAST DO YOU WANNA GO........ :)
if its made from metal...then it can be ...cut, refabed, extended,
shortened, raised, lowered, boosted, and overall improved upon...
however.....
it ain't gonna be cheap, you gonna need a whole lot of pricey equipment
to do it with even if you "try it" yourself.
so.......if your gonna ask.." Can I ??"...."Will it ??" ...."Is it
possible ??"......and moneys an issue.....then include in your
posts......"hey, how much would be a good GUESS on the money invovled in
this project ?"........"how much running back and forth to the parts
store am I gonna have to do?"......"COULD YOU GIVE JUST A BRIEF OUTLINE
OF THE PARTS AND PROCEEDURE INVOLVED??..so I don't have to post more
queeries during each step...and aggrevate the monster dude..cuz I got
the feeling he's got burnout......."
can I put a 3800 in an S 10......
YES
98 Camaro
same engine with a smaller to longer throw. You would be insulting the 3.8
to put it in the same realm.
--
98 Camaro
"Mike Levy A+, N+, MCP" <mle...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:nul59v47u81gmlmdh...@4ax.com...
Steve Grauman
a popular swap into the S-trucks to replace a 2.8, since it bolted to
the tranny from the 2.8, but that 3.4 was typically one from a Camaro,
not sure if anyone tried a transverse engine.
>>
Oh well. Another friend has a 94 Camaro V6 with the old DOHC 3.4, and I
actually prefer it. Out of the box, it's not as powerful, but it's much
smoother and likes to revv better. He stuck an intake and exhuast on his, and
it's not bad for a V6.
Steve Grauman
Don't know anyone that makes a kit. Eaton makes a Supercharger he could use,
but that's going to require all kinds of brackets and such that no one makes.
<< f I was swaping engines,
id suggest a new GM crate motor 350. >>
350 would put an awful lot of extra weight over the nose of the small S10. I
commented that the new 4.3 litre I6 from the Trailblazer would be a good swap
though...At this rate, selling the Xtreme for a C/K 1500 SS and having the 454
undergo a hi-po rebuild sounds the best.
Rondo
here's a link to one... but they list several on their site... hth...
http://www.superchargersonline.com/product_detail.asp?PartNumber=PD-K10526-1
01
<MarshM...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25049-3E9...@storefull-2356.public.lawson.webtv.net...
shiden_kai
"Mike Levy A+, N+, MCP" wrote
> Well, the engine and tranny won't mate up. The 3.8 is a 60* V-6, the
> 4.3 is a 90* V-6. The reason I asked what I did is that someone
> mentioned that a 3.4 (apparently a VERY similar block to the 3.8) was
> a popular swap into the S-trucks to replace a 2.8, since it bolted to
> the tranny from the 2.8, but that 3.4 was typically one from a Camaro,
> not sure if anyone tried a transverse engine.
Geez, Mike...you've been around here long enough, you should
know this stuff by now...(grin). The 3800 is a "90" degree v-6.
Same as the 4.3. The 3.4 that came in the Camaro's is the
60 degree v-6.....and there were also Camaro's and Firebird's
that could be had with the 3800 v-6 in them.
The 3.4 is not a similar block to the 3.8.
I do agree with you that the poster ought to look
for a longitudinal engine....makes things like starter
placement...etc...much easier.
Ian
Gary Glaenzer
"shiden_kai" <violet-lighte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rtJka.25183$de.29...@news2.telusplanet.net...
>
> Geez, Mike...you've been around here long enough, you should
> know this stuff by now...(grin). The 3800 is a "90" degree v-6.
> Same as the 4.3. The 3.4 that came in the Camaro's is the
> 60 degree v-6.....and there were also Camaro's and Firebird's
> that could be had with the 3800 v-6 in them.
>
> The 3.4 is not a similar block to the 3.8.
> I do agree with you that the poster ought to look
> for a longitudinal engine....makes things like starter
> placement...etc...much easier.
>
Ian;
Have you ever matched up the bolt patterns of a FWD 3.8 and a small-bell
700R4 ? Will they mate up ?
It seems they should, the 2.5 and FWD V-6's were both used with the TH-125,
and the 2.5 was used with the small-bell 700, but
still........................
G
shiden_kai
"Gary Glaenzer" wrote
> Have you ever matched up the bolt patterns of a FWD 3.8 and a small-bell
> 700R4 ? Will they mate up ?
>
> It seems they should, the 2.5 and FWD V-6's were both used with the
TH-125,
> and the 2.5 was used with the small-bell 700, but
> still........................
I have not done any of this, Gary. Frankly, I'm
dumber then a sack of hammers when it comes
to what mates up with what in terms of FWD engines
and RWD cars. Obviously the 3800 was installed
in the F-bodies, so there must be trannies kicking around
that will match that installation. Just have to find one I
guess....that'll be the fun part.
Ian
Mike Levy A+, N+, MCP
><< maybe im stupid but why not supercharge the 4.3?? >>
>
>Don't know anyone that makes a kit. Eaton makes a Supercharger he could use,
>but that's going to require all kinds of brackets and such that no one makes.
>
><< f I was swaping engines,
>id suggest a new GM crate motor 350. >>
>
>350 would put an awful lot of extra weight over the nose of the small S10. I
>commented that the new 4.3 litre I6 from the Trailblazer would be a good swap
>though...
The weight is likely a negligable increase, certainly nothing a
stiffer spring or crank on the t-bar won't overcome, a 350 swap is
probably THE most-popular swap into an S-truck. The I-6 is 4.2L (OK,
slight semantics there) and is too long to go under the hood of the
S-trucks. According to www.jagsthatrun.com the swap will typically
add 160 lbs to the front axle and 110 lbs to the rear, causing the
front to drop less than 1 inch and the rear to drop about the same, HD
shocks will help this some, as will stiffer springs up front and an
add-a-leaf in the rear.
>At this rate, selling the Xtreme for a C/K 1500 SS and having the 454
>undergo a hi-po rebuild sounds the best.
Might be the best solution.
Me
compensate for the weight. Hardest part is cooling and getting the
headers/exhaust to fit. IIRC the I6 is too long which is why the
replacement of the blazer/S10 with the trailblazer/colorado mid sized. You
could keep your Xtreme and put in a 454, thats been done too :)
"Steve Grauman" <onea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030408183021...@mb-fh.aol.com...
Mike Levy A+, N+, MCP
The 3800 was used in the F-bodies? I wasn't aware of that. I also
wasn't aware that the 3800 is a 90* V-6, considering it's used
somewhat interchageably with the 3.4 in the FWD cars/minivans, I
thought they were the same and shared transmissions...
Steve Grauman
The F-Bodies where the Camaro/Firebird twins, right? Then yes, for quite some
time.
<< I also
wasn't aware that the 3800 is a 90* V-6, considering it's used
somewhat interchageably with the 3.4 in the FWD cars/minivans >>
GM hasn't put a 3.4 into a Camaro/Firebird since 1994 or a Monte Carlo since
1995. It's no longer made.
Steve Grauman
could keep your Xtreme and put in a 454, thats been done too :) >>
Seriously!? Holy crap....
Mike Levy A+, N+, MCP
If I'm not mistaken, the 3.4 is used in the Century, Malibu (I think),
Grand Am and possibly base model Grand Prix, to name a few, but there
certainly is still a version being made. Beyond those, there
certainly isn't a 3.4 in longitudinal configuration, in production GMs
anyway.
OK, double-checked, the Malibu and Century get a 3.1 and THAT engine
is the one that is interchangeable with the 3.4, not the 3.8 as I had
thought. The Grand Am still gets a 3.4 though.
shiden_kai
"Steve Grauman" wrote
> GM hasn't put a 3.4 into a Camaro/Firebird since 1994 or a Monte Carlo
since
> 1995. It's no longer made.
Steve, you must be thinking of the 3.4 DOHC engine. I think Mike
is referring to the 3.4 pushrod engine. I do not think that
the 3.4 DOHC was ever in the F-bodies, it was limited to
the W-body front wheel drive cars. At least I don't remember
ever seeing that engine in the f-body...and I've been working
GM before that engine ever came out.
Ian
Steve Grauman
is referring to the 3.4 pushrod engine. >>
Ah, this is where the screwup is. Yes, I assumed he meant the DOHC 3.4
previously of the Monte Carlo.
<< I do not think that
the 3.4 DOHC was ever in the F-bodies, it was limited to
the W-body front wheel drive cars. >><BR><BR>
<< I do not think that
the 3.4 DOHC was ever in the F-bodies, it was limited to
the W-body front wheel drive cars. >>
Interesting. I knew that in 1994, the MC and Camaro both used a 3.4 V6, and
that is was most certainly a DOHC when under the hood of the MC. Going by the
fact that GM now uses the 3800 series in a few of their cars, and had used the
same 3.8 in the Camro/Firebird, I just assumed that the old Camaro 3.4 was the
same one that had been used in the MC.
Steve W.
and I also have a 1968 225 V-6 that is the same engine design (also used by
Jeep and the basis for the Land Rover aluminum V-6 after they bought the
plans from Buick). The earlier ones had universal bolt patterns on them.
they could bolt to the Chevy small block pattern and the BOP pattern as
well. As to putting the 3.8 into a 2.8 equipped Blazer. You need to have the
3.8 then get an adapter plate from jags that run to bolt it to the small
bellhousing trans. Use the 2.8 converter and the adapter flexplate in the
kit. The exhaust might be fun but not all that hard. Space wise it shouldn't
be a problem since the factory blower is tucked in pretty well.
Steve W.
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Old Crow
<mle...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>On 08 Apr 2003 22:30:21 GMT, onea...@aol.com (Steve Grauman) wrote:
>
>><< maybe im stupid but why not supercharge the 4.3?? >>
>>
>>Don't know anyone that makes a kit. Eaton makes a Supercharger he could use,
>>but that's going to require all kinds of brackets and such that no one makes.
>>
>><< f I was swaping engines,
>>id suggest a new GM crate motor 350. >>
>>
>>350 would put an awful lot of extra weight over the nose of the small S10. I
>>commented that the new 4.3 litre I6 from the Trailblazer would be a good swap
>>though...
>
>The weight is likely a negligable increase, certainly nothing a
>stiffer spring or crank on the t-bar won't overcome, a 350 swap is
>probably THE most-popular swap into an S-truck. The I-6 is 4.2L (OK,
>slight semantics there) and is too long to go under the hood of the
>S-trucks. According to www.jagsthatrun.com the swap will typically
>add 160 lbs to the front axle and 110 lbs to the rear, causing the
>front to drop less than 1 inch and the rear to drop about the same, HD
>shocks will help this some, as will stiffer springs up front and an
>add-a-leaf in the rear.
I wonder though, if JTR was considering the "Extreme" package? The
truck is already lowered from the factory and has limited load
carrying and towing capacity.
I'd bet a turbo on the 4.3 would be the way to go. Some guy named
Stringfellow(from Arkansas, BTW)had a little sucess with this
configuration a while back<g>.
--
Old Crow
'82 FLTC 92" 'Pearl'
TOMKAT, SENS, BS#133, DOF#51
ASE Certified Master Auto Tech
Chevy Certified Master Tech
Me
look aroud and see.
"Steve Grauman" <onea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030408232411...@mb-fh.aol.com...
Steve Grauman
As far as I'm concerned, if it's going to be a Turbo on a GM V6 in a truck/SUV
body, it's going to be a Typhoon or Cyclone. Which is what I want him to get
anyway.
A. Jones
> << maybe im stupid but why not supercharge the 4.3?? >>
>
> Don't know anyone that makes a kit. Eaton makes a Supercharger he could
use,
> but that's going to require all kinds of brackets and such that no one
makes.
>
> << f I was swaping engines,
> id suggest a new GM crate motor 350. >>
>
> 350 would put an awful lot of extra weight over the nose of the small S10.
I
> commented that the new 4.3 litre I6 from the Trailblazer would be a good
swap
> though...At this rate, selling the Xtreme for a C/K 1500 SS and having the
454
> undergo a hi-po rebuild sounds the best.
if you want a fullsize truck with a big block, then dont get a 454 SS, the
motor in that truck is a dog, its all torque. get a much cheaper
equivalent fullsize reg. cab 2wd truck and put a crate 502 in it (save money
for a locker and slicks). youd be much better off.
Bret Chase
completely different animal.
"Steve W." <fal...@telenet.net> wrote in message
news:3e93c...@corp.newsgroups.com...
Bret Chase
plow through corners. it'd be fast as hell in a straight line, but you'd
about have to stop to make a turn. no fun to drive if you ask me.news:20030408232411...@mb-fh.aol.com...
Steve Grauman
plow through corners. it'd be fast as hell in a straight line, but you'd
about have to stop to make a turn. no fun to drive if you ask me. >>
I agree. A swap out for a built 454 or 502 if the only intention was for drag
racing. For for normal driving, even a 350 would cause excessive plowing.
Old Crow
Well, geuss who gave GM the idea for the Typhoon/Syclone? Yup, Mr.
Stringfellow, in cahoots with the Banks company.
Not sure if the record still stands, but he held the LSR with the
prototype truck.