1996 gmc abs can't bleed
In2hoppn
pump on 1996 Kelsey brakes? 1996 GMC 1/2 ton 4X4 Pickup.
I read to use "tech I" tool. Also read "any decent scan tool"...
Can't find anyway to do it with my MODIS... (so much for it being decent,
it's nothing but a headache 9 out of 10 times try to use it).
Had to replace rusted rear brake lines. Master resevior for the rear brakes
got run dry. ABS hasn't worked for a long time and customer doesn't want to
fix that.
I can't force the pump to run by driving it because abs light is on for
front wheel sensor (along with other codes) so it seems I got no way to
bleed it out to get rear brakes working.
Anyone know of a way to force the pump to run??? Hot wire it???
Or what scan tools will give the option to run the pump?
THX
Martin Riddle
"In2hoppn" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:nvednf4aWZB9x1PW...@metrocastcablevision.com...
OBDII? I know OBDI you can jump a pin on the ADL connector.
Cheers
Bill
The only thing I have read about which will activate the ABS is the $3000.00
Tech II scanner. I read about a couple of low cost scanners which say they
will *read* ABS codes, but I have not read they will activate the ABS. And
if they don't say it will do something, don't count on it!
And they control the updating of the scan tool. They will not offer updates,
but rather will offer a new tool for a ton of money. I think PC software is
better and the wave of the future. Might search for that by searching
google.com for the words...
obd pc software abs
Or might want to take it to another mechanic who has a Tech II (If it was
your fault the reservoir ran dry, otherwise I would tell the customer they
need to get the ABS fixed.)
As to customers not wanting things like the ABS fixed and telling me to
repair something half assed, I would refuse to do that. Do it right or not
at all is my motto!
And my reason for doing that (other than legal/liability issues) is that I
have learned these people will be the *first* to complain when something
does not work *perfectly* or the repair does not last like it should.
They want prime rib on a hamburger budget! And they are nothing but a
headache.
In2hoppn
to years ago!
Yeah, it's OBDII. No option for jumping on the DLC that I'm aware of. I
was looking at wiring schematics and it looked pretty hopeless, but I think
I'll look again with regard to the DLC.
I did learn that Snap On MODIS has the "automatic bleed" option added to
later software. YEE HA, all I have to do is spend almost 1200 bucks to
update. LOL, a little guy like me won't ever make enough with it to ever be
worth all the updating expenses.
This morning I can drive it 70 miles to another shop that has later version
software (my brother's transmission shop), unless I can find someone local
who can help me out. Anyone local to Concord, NH following this thread with
MODIS version 9.2 or later?? LOL.
I'll update if I find another solution!
IN2
"Martin Riddle" <marti...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hqo4h9$95h$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
[SMF]
> WOW! Got a reply! Thanks Martin! These NG's are so totally dead
> compared to years ago!
> Yeah, it's OBDII. No option for jumping on the DLC that I'm aware of. I
> was looking at wiring schematics and it looked pretty hopeless, but I
> think I'll look again with regard to the DLC.
>
> I did learn that Snap On MODIS has the "automatic bleed" option added to
> later software. YEE HA, all I have to do is spend almost 1200 bucks to
> update. LOL, a little guy like me won't ever make enough with it to ever
> be worth all the updating expenses.
> This morning I can drive it 70 miles to another shop that has later
> version software (my brother's transmission shop), unless I can find
> someone local who can help me out. Anyone local to Concord, NH following
> this thread with MODIS version 9.2 or later?? LOL.
>
> I'll update if I find another solution!
> IN2
Well, this might be a long shot, but my local Autozone lets me use
their scanner, for free. Compared to the one I used to own (and
the separate programmer), it is light years ahead in straight
functionality and speed.
The catch? It probably does not have the ABS feature you seek, but
is worth a shot if it does do as you need, and they'll let you
perform the task in their parking lot.
aarcuda69062
"In2hoppn" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
You shouldn't need a scan tool to bleed the rear brakes unless the ABS
actually activated while the master cylinder was dry allowing air into
the ABS modulator. Under normal circumstances, the ABS valves are
closed, air can not get into the system unless the valves are commanded
open like during an ABS event or via a capable scan tool. If air got in
because of leaking valves, you have other problems. If air got in and
the valves are -not- leaking and you still can't get a firm pedal,
you've got other problems.
As for using your Modis more effectively, Snap-On has plenty of free
online training. The worst time to learn a tool is when you're under
the gun trying to fix a vehicle.
In2hoppn
just for the heck of it... (I got friends there...) : )
But, it's finally all bleed and on it's way!
A shop down the road was nice enough to activate it for me. Snap on Solux
(and fairly up to date I imagine) did the trick.
BUT, it wouldn't allow that function without codes cleared, and the bad
front left wheel sensor would set the code right back in. Had to go back
home, rig up a resistor to simulate the wheel sensor being good. Went back
down there with that, and my pressure bleeder attached and bleed bottle...
LOL, they treated me pretty well and it's finally done.
Definitely no way of getting the air out of that unit any other way!
Thanks all!
"[SMF]" <snb...@yahooligo.com> wrote in message
news:hqpmth$c3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
[SMF]
> Hey, thanks so much! Next time I'm at the Zone, I'll see what they
> have, just for the heck of it... (I got friends there...) : )
> But, it's finally all bleed and on it's way!
> A shop down the road was nice enough to activate it for me. Snap on
> Solux (and fairly up to date I imagine) did the trick.
> BUT, it wouldn't allow that function without codes cleared, and the bad
> front left wheel sensor would set the code right back in. Had to go back
> home, rig up a resistor to simulate the wheel sensor being good. Went
> back down there with that, and my pressure bleeder attached and bleed
> bottle... LOL, they treated me pretty well and it's finally done.
>
> Definitely no way of getting the air out of that unit any other way!
> Thanks all!
Good to hear. Most of the shops will help you out if you are a DIYer,
there might be a time when you really need them...
In2hoppn
> The only thing I have read about which will activate the ABS is the
> $3000.00
> Tech II scanner. I read about a couple of low cost scanners which say they
> will *read* ABS codes, but I have not read they will activate the ABS. And
> if they don't say it will do something, don't count on it!
Snap on MODIS added the function "automated bleed" software version 9.2 and
later.
At least according to the snap on tech I called.
Mine's only 8.2 and I just can see spending 1200 to upgrade it when I rarely
use it.
I'm just a one man part time operation with a small customer base. I need
to check ebay... see if I can buy less up to date upgrades cheap??? My
customer base is NOT new vehicles. And I'm not complaining there... but it
did tick me off a bit when I was snap on told me I need to update my MODIS
for a freakin 1996! My MT2500 is updated way beyond that year.
> And they control the updating of the scan tool. They will not offer
> updates, but rather will offer a new tool for a ton of money. I think PC
> software is better and the wave of the future.
Snap on does update, and quite often! And quite expensive!!!!!!!!
I have no experience with any PC based stuff, But it's all greedy politics
to me. I always said a new car should come with a repair manual, not an
owners manual.
> Or might want to take it to another mechanic who has a Tech II (If it was
> your fault the reservoir ran dry, otherwise I would tell the customer they
> need to get the ABS fixed.)
Local shop had a Snap On SOLUS that did the trick. If that didn't work out,
he was facing me having to fix that abs.
But it had other codes in it to that may or may not have meant more issues
to contend with.
> As to customers not wanting things like the ABS fixed and telling me to
> repair something half assed, I would refuse to do that. Do it right or not
> at all is my motto!
>
> And my reason for doing that (other than legal/liability issues) is that I
> have learned these people will be the *first* to complain when something
> does not work *perfectly* or the repair does not last like it should.
Most of the time, I agree with that. But not with a 1996 rust bucket truck
(this is NH, don't know where you are...).
One has to draw the line somewhere between a full restoration and scrapping
it. This one is another year or two at best before it becomes his "yard
truck" LOL. Although even MY yard truck has to have good brakes LOL!
ABS is not required for NH inspection. Personally (and many I know) prefer
no ABS for winter conditions. No doubt the newer stuff is better, but so
far all my experience is that stomp-stand-steer can be a sure way to crash
here during the winter. A lot of people pulled the fuses on these when new
because of inherent problems in slippery conditions. Add some false
activation (which developed pretty early for some of these) and then it
get's real scary. No code or even light coming on for that. A lot of
people absolutely hated ABS... couldn't stand it! And for good reason. If
it's a good abs system, the driver should basically never know it's there.
This system is not that. Anyway, it's bled out and it fixed right. But no
abs, which was an option not required so I got no problem with that.
>
> They want prime rib on a hamburger budget! And they are nothing but a
> headache.
I hear you there! I've always been right up front with all my customers.
They get no less than what I'd do on my own vehicle. It will cost them what
it costs and no one even holds me to a specific estimate. They trust me.
Usually I can say we're talking hundreds not thousands and there no issue.
And this guy pays me good money for my time. He's still got one rusty line
left to the front right and of course you can't see the entire line to know
there isn't a real bad spot worse than what is visible. Dealing with rusty
stuff make what looks like a simple job slow and makes a total mess. It's
"s _ _ t work for sure with not much to be made on parts. He knows all this
and pays for my time without complaint so it's OK. I'll get it back in next
month and fix that before it leaks, so it doesn't get air in the abs unit
again. If it was a stranger off the street that wanted a written estimate??
Well I'd give him a worse case scenario to include all new everything (vac
booster, master, abs unit, lines, hoses, calipers, pads, drums, wheel
cylinders, spring kit) and tell him I have no idea what's salvageable until
I actually do the job. LOL. Then throw in the fact that regardless of how
the parking brake cables are working, it will be in a new position with new
parts and might be sticky and you don't want that sticking and cooking your
new brakes do you? Not that I'd ever really replace all that stuff, but it
would send the customer off to go be somebody else's headache : ). But this
guy's not like that at all. But the funny thing is, he's been telling me he
just wants to squeeze another year out it... for the past 6 years!!! So
instead of replacing everything at once, I piece meal it along. He's paying
much more money all total to do it that way, and he knows that, but it's
spread out that way and of course if a major expense comes along, he'll junk
it (as would I). Funny thing is, I already replaced one front wheel bearing
that wore out. Probably next the other one will go and then his abs will be
fixed anyway : ).
But I sure have had some "headache" customers like you say! It's like the
guy who shows up... thinks he knows what's wrong because someone said it's
probably "this"... or has pulled some codes... and wants to know if I
..."can look at it, tell him for sure what's wrong with it, and then give
him a price to fix it"... yeah right! Some people just don't realize that
finding the problem(s) IS fixing it.
But, the other side is the good customer that can't afford too expensive of
a repair so does need a close price or places a limit. There is a
legitimate fear for anyone facing car repair these days. And unfortunately,
so many people get screeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwed big time by shops
(especially dealerships) who quote tons of work that really doesn't need to
be done, that makes the rest of us all look like potential crooks. I've got
written estimates for insane amounts for work that I thought would be good
jobs for me when the car gets to me. I LOVE IT WHEN SOMEONE WILL GET A
WRITTEN ESTIMATE AND BRING IT TO ME TO SEE IF I CAN DO IT CHEAPER. That's
my specialty... making a small FORTUNE saving them a BIG fortune! I don't
run other shops down, even dealerships. But, when I have the estimate in
hand, and can't find ANYTHING wrong with the car... like recently a 2002
Nissan with like 75K on it quoted for replacing both lower control arms.
OK, so Nissan doesn't do just ball joints on those, it's replace the whole
thing for them. But Moog makes ball joints to press in, and I got the tools
to do it... so sounded like a good job to do. Turned out ball joints and
bushing are 100% tight and bushings are all good. Only thing wrong was the
drive knows nothing about cars and was about to get boned. Gee if there
going to start replacing parts because they look dirty... we these didn't
even look dirty! But I know other guys who work at dealerships that stay on
the up and up. I'm cheaper than any shop but only because I don't have the
overhead. I also don't provide a waiting room and you can't drive to me and
expect walk-in care. I'm like one step up from a back yard mechanic. I
work in my FRONT yard! LOL
>
Thanks. Sorry for length... got carried away at the keyboard... again...
I don't make it very often. When I do, I stay too long... : )
In2hoppn
"aarcuda69062" <none...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-DD97CA...@news.eternal-september.org...
I have to disagree with this based on this vehicle and one other in the
past.
My experience is that if the master runs out, air gets trapped in the abs.
The vehicle in the past would not bleed the air out, just fluid by the
quart... until activating the pump (by driving and braking). Then all was
fine. Same for this vehicle after I found someone with the tool to activate
it. I know this one didn't activate with master dry because there was no
fuse in it. As far as I know (or can imagine) the truck in the past
wouldn't have activated because the brake warning light (red) had come on
first when line blew and that disables the abs.
Now if air trapped under these conditions indicates another problem that is
in itself not a problem before or after... well that may be because I know
very little about the abs unit itself. My understanding is that there was a
variety of different abs system during these years. Perhaps what you state
applies to a different system?
> As for using your Modis more effectively, Snap-On has plenty of free
> online training. The worst time to learn a tool is when you're under
> the gun trying to fix a vehicle.
Now THAT I did NOT know. FREE online training?? Any vehicle specific stuff
or just using the MODIS in general??? Although just the latter will be
worth looking into! I'm writing myself a sticky note right now to look into
that. My customer base is NOT new cars so really for me the MODIS has been
overkill (but I did buy it used). And of course the "older cars" have gone
from the 80's to the 90's to now all the 00's so I really do need to get
using it much more. You are absolutely right. There has been no good time
for me to really learn the MODIS. My first frustration with it was trying
to "make movie" like on the brick. Doesn't do that the same way at all. I
still prefer to grab my brick. Especially for on the road because usually
the vehicle I'm working on is worth less than what I paid for the MODIS so
the brick just feels safer : ). LOL. The place I went to that activated the
abs for me used a SOLUS. First I've seen that in action. Looks to me like
a MODIS minus the Vantage part??? The MODIS does seem like way to much to
dig out just to pull codes. My impression is many have been shying away
from them? Last I knew there were plenty of used ones on ebay... at least
back when I bought mine... : )
Thanks much! I appreciate your input and will look into the online
training...
aarcuda69062
"In2hoppn" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
Being in Wisconsin, I assure you that I have replaced many-many rusted
out brake lines on GM and other brands of vehicles with ABS brake
systems. I have never needed a scan tool to bleed the brakes unless
there was another concern that allowed air into the ABS modulator.
> My experience is that if the master runs out, air gets trapped in the abs.
Air can not get into the ABS modulator UNLESS the valves are either
leaking or were cycled such as would happen if the ABS is activated.
> The vehicle in the past would not bleed the air out, just fluid by the
> quart... until activating the pump (by driving and braking). Then all was
> fine. Same for this vehicle after I found someone with the tool to activate
> it. I know this one didn't activate with master dry because there was no
> fuse in it. As far as I know (or can imagine) the truck in the past
> wouldn't have activated because the brake warning light (red) had come on
> first when line blew and that disables the abs.
Then there was probably a chunk of crap lodged in one of the valves and
it flushed past the valve when you used the scan tool.
> Now if air trapped under these conditions indicates another problem that is
> in itself not a problem before or after... well that may be because I know
> very little about the abs unit itself. My understanding is that there was a
> variety of different abs system during these years. Perhaps what you state
> applies to a different system?
There were/are a variety of systems out there but they all operate
essentially the same.
> > As for using your Modis more effectively, Snap-On has plenty of free
> > online training. The worst time to learn a tool is when you're under
> > the gun trying to fix a vehicle.
>
> Now THAT I did NOT know. FREE online training?? Any vehicle specific stuff
> or just using the MODIS in general???
No vehicle specific stuff, tool usage only.
> Although just the latter will be
> worth looking into! I'm writing myself a sticky note right now to look into
> that. My customer base is NOT new cars so really for me the MODIS has been
> overkill (but I did buy it used).
Back when the Modis came out, I coined the phrase "Golden Handcuffs."
I never saw the advantage to the tool, I DID see the disadvantage to
having three tools bundled together, from the update point, the usage
point and the repair point. More cost to update, tool tied to one car
when needed on another for a different function and when it breaks and
needs to be sent in for repair, you're out all three tools.
> And of course the "older cars" have gone
> from the 80's to the 90's to now all the 00's so I really do need to get
> using it much more. You are absolutely right. There has been no good time
> for me to really learn the MODIS. My first frustration with it was trying
> to "make movie" like on the brick. Doesn't do that the same way at all. I
> still prefer to grab my brick. Especially for on the road because usually
> the vehicle I'm working on is worth less than what I paid for the MODIS so
> the brick just feels safer : ).
But on the other hand, you can print more easily/cheaper, you can build
a database of known good/bad data, you can interface with a PC for full
screen view, you can connect a larger monitor.
> LOL. The place I went to that activated the
> abs for me used a SOLUS. First I've seen that in action. Looks to me like
> a MODIS minus the Vantage part???
Solus or Solus Pro? You don't want a Solus, you DO want a Solus Pro.
Much better unit.
> The MODIS does seem like way to much to
> dig out just to pull codes.
Absolutely! But why not use the rest of the tools capability? The
labscope and the graphing multi-meter?
> My impression is many have been shying away
> from them? Last I knew there were plenty of used ones on ebay... at least
> back when I bought mine... : )
True that. I've shied away for 10 years now. I've used them at other
shops so I am familiar with the tool.
> Thanks much! I appreciate your input and will look into the online
> training...
In2hoppn
> Then there was probably a chunk of crap lodged in one of the valves and
> it flushed past the valve when you used the scan tool.
Yeah, or if the seals are just crappy and still don't seal... is that a
problem that otherwise, well, doesn't cause a problem???
> But on the other hand, you can print more easily/cheaper, you can build
> a database of known good/bad data, you can interface with a PC for full
> screen view, you can connect a larger monitor.
Have never printed with either. Just jot down codes, make quick notes...
guess that's because I couldn't print from the brick but I see (via some of
that online training you recommended) that I can probably print using my
inkjet!!!!!
> Solus or Solus Pro? You don't want a Solus, you DO want a Solus Pro.
> Much better unit.
It may have been the Pro. All I know it the screen/menu was similar to my
MODIS except of course a much smaller unit (and had the needed option to
activate abs).
What's the difference, Solus vs. Solus Pro?? ... basically? ... in a nut
shell? ...or all the detail?? I appreciate your very informative
posts!!!!!!
>> The MODIS does seem like way to much to
>> dig out just to pull codes.
>
> Absolutely! But why not use the rest of the tools capability? The
> labscope and the graphing multi-meter?
So far, haven't needed to use labscope yet. And of course I always grab the
old Vantage meter, if my 2 dollar short lead cheapy meter hasn't already
done the trick.
> http://www1.snapon.com/ForumsTraining.nws
Yup, that's were I've been. I gotta say, it's pretty slow and annoying!
1st, is each slide has like a 15 second silent beginning (OK, haven't timed
it, but it's SLOW). Then theres all the slow motion, detailed to the point
of bragging, instruction of the very basic tool operation. Wish there was a
way to increase the play speed : )
The battery charging has always annoyed me. First, because it's always dead
when I pull the tool out. Then, because it has to be ON to charge battery,
and it doesn't shut down after... Apparently, if you plug it in but leave
it powered off, it is NOT charging the battery at all? Someone told me to
pull the battery out after charging in if it's going to be sitting unused
for long. I'm trying that...